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  • Thread starter zer05ive
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Apmaddock
Meh. If something gets stale then the person with the prize can decide to get rid of it. I prefer to have some races that remain the same/similar because it really gets people keyed in on the combo. That should lead to better lap times and tighter races.
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If it's not voted for, it can't get replaced :)

So far i've liked having one combo carry over. My times at Daytona have gone way down. There's also less breaking in and learning tracks each week. There's only so much time I have to spread around.
 
Apmaddock
Meh. If something gets stale then the person with the prize can decide to get rid of it. I prefer to have some races that remain the same/similar because it really gets people keyed in on the combo. That should lead to better lap times and tighter races.
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+1

Plus, it will give me some chance to break in my car.

One thing I should do is do little three lap races. Driving around practicing in free mode doesn't put any miles on the car. So schtupid.

Rallywagon
I guess, I'm just more old school I guess. I cant say its my age showing, cause for once I'm not the oldest. However. I think moving up to the next division should be your kudos for racing good. I mean, (and you know how much I love exaggerating) if we are going to reward a driver for moving up to div2, then we really should push for PD and Sony to make it a trophy too. I mean really guys? We are here for the racing. I dont need a damn pat on the back to enjoy racing. Especially with this group. If I bust my arse, day in and out, ignore everything but basic food and facility use, and got good enough to take on Devious and Mopar, I sure as hell wouldnt wanna share my prize with someone who's happy with being down in D3 and doesnt wanna put in the effort to move up. Why should that person share my reward for my hard work? Just saying.
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That's why my suggestion isn't for each division to add tracks. The only new tracks come from D1. But each division votes off its own track. Again, I haven't seen any good reasons why they can't be on different tracks. The only one was because moves aren't done until later in the week. I think they should be done today with the new tracks.

But as to the "doesn't wanna put in the effort".... Trust me. I could practice as much if not more than you, and you'll still beat me. No amount of practice makes up for lack of talent. I enjoy it. That doesn't mean I'm any good at it.

fzappa
Having all 3 tracks and cars the same every week will get boring. We need to change once in a while to keep everyone up on the wheel, so to speak. Builds your skill level, unless you like D3!??
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It isn't that I like being a loser. I think you should change your perception. I want to find a group of people with similar skill levels so I can actually race and not just follow along at a respectable distance. I have no delusions of being some great undiscovered racing god. I enjoy it, so I do it.
 
wow, i leave for the weekend and come back to 10 unread pages!! we are doing well! :cheers: I may have missed it, but has the new lineup bee posted yet?
 
I feel like I may have been misunderstood.

I like things as they were initially laid out:

One car/track combo is changed per week.
One other car or track is also changed.
Each division runs on the same tracks.

Essentially half of the cars/tracks are changed each week, and the group as a whole gets to decide their least favorite.

Don't miss what Rally said earlier, garris/jbolaz. Division 3 was particularly broken up this week due to the influx of newcomers. Things will settle down shortly and you'll surely be in the running with the rest of the racers, there.
 
Vol Jbolaz
But as to the "doesn't wanna put in the effort".... Trust me. I could practice as much if not more than you, and you'll still beat me. No amount of practice makes up for lack of talent. I enjoy it. That doesn't mean I'm any good at it.



It isn't that I like being a loser. I think you should change your perception. I want to find a group of people with similar skill levels so I can actually race and not just follow along at a respectable distance. I have no delusions of being some great undiscovered racing god. I enjoy it, so I do it.
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No amount of talent can make up for a lack of confidence. You are whatcha eat right? That said. Give it a week or two, the combos arent the reason you cant compete. A is the attitude. If you cant trust yourself to race, then you are always gonna slow more when your coming to a corner in a group, and if your already at the bottom, then there is no way you can keep up. Secondly, As I said like an hour ago, but is probably buried in 100 posts by now, wait for the new guys to move on, and the slower guys will show themselves. But really, if you have no want to improve, do you expect people to slow down for you? I mean, to me, it sounds like your upset, cause you have no one in your skill level to race with. But you seem to lack the want to be better, instead you just put out the excuse that "it doesnt matter, I suck." In which case, you will always be outclass and no one is going to go slower to make you happy.
 
And maybe not "the" reason, but a great reason for everyone running the same combo, is so everyone knows where they stand against everyone else in the league, a new guy can come in, practice, and have a good idea what league he will be able to attain. Everyone is on the same page. People up top and look down and see who's going to be up and coming. and vis versa.
 
Rallywagon
But really, if you have no want to improve, do you expect people to slow down for you? I mean, to me, it sounds like your upset, cause you have no one in your skill level to race with.
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I think the question/concern went along the lines of "this is an awfully complicated combo for new drivers, and as new drivers we can only do so much about changing the combo..." and as I stated, I have been practicing, trying, and when you're in BFE, you don't learn much. There have been some quite constructive posts about this earlier. I hope to get to some of the practices that have been offered.

Rallywagon, perhaps I am forgetful, please be kind and do show me the post or the link where either Garris or said "I don't want to improve"... - I look forward to finding this out, as I can't recall such a statement, by either one of us.

Thank you for your courtesy, I appreciate the help in correcting a misstatement I may have made... or didn't make. Either one.
 
Baah, Handlebar, Im not going at you like this, just Garris some. That "I can try all day but I wont get better" attitude bugs me I guess, which I can give you examples of such as "Trust me. I could practice as much if not more than you, and you'll still beat me. No amount of practice makes up for lack of talent. I enjoy it. That doesn't mean I'm any good at it." For one, and further back he said a few more things of the alike. I guess I'm harsh. I'm not much for smooth talk. but really man. If you go into it knowing you're going to lose, then you've lost. It was offered to help him learn, twice. I promise, a couple of weeks help from mopar and devious. You will out race me. They are elite, Im lucky, thats why I hold onto d1, I got here before the elite showed up. Once some of the newer racers hit D1, I'll probably be in D2. But its not cause I think I lack any skill. Maybe thats the difference. If I had the time and the want, I can be elite too. Its all just 1s and 0s here. Not real life, in a real car, where you need real sisu. You may not get to elite, I wont. But its not hard to be good.
 
Apmaddock
Meh. If something gets stale then the person with the prize can decide to get rid of it. I prefer to have some races that remain the same/similar because it really gets people keyed in on the combo. That should lead to better lap times and tighter races.
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Your not a loser! There's no losers in this league, that I've seen so far. LOL. Change is good. As long as a US president doesn't run on that notion .
 
Rallywagon
Baah, Handlebar, Im not going at you like this, just Garris some. That "I can try all day but I wont get better" attitude bugs me I guess, which I can give you examples of such as "Trust me. I could practice as much if not more than you, and you'll still beat me. No amount of practice makes up for lack of talent. I enjoy it. That doesn't mean I'm any good at it." For one, and further back he said a few more things of the alike. I guess I'm harsh. I'm not much for smooth talk. but really man. If you go into it knowing you're going to lose, then you've lost. It was offered to help him learn, twice. I promise, a couple of weeks help from mopar and devious. You will out race me. They are elite, I'm lucky, thats why I hold onto d1, I got here before the elite showed up. Once some of the newer racers hit D1, I'll probably be in D2. But its not cause I think I lack any skill. Maybe thats the difference. If I had the time and the want, I can be elite too. Its all just 1s and 0s here. Not real life, in a real car, where you need real sisu. You may not get to elite, I wont. But its not hard to be good.
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Sounds like a great reason for a PM, I guess.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. Direct communication (perhaps proportional to the audience) and clarity is probably more effective the high volume rhetoric, but... wait, that's just crazy talk, I guess.

I defer to those with more experience than I have, which is most of you. I didn't mean to add to any volume, it's just I believe that the posts asking about race/cars from D3 were made predicated on hoping learn racing and have fun.
 
Rallywagon
Frank man, we do. A new car track combo, and either new car or track, every week.
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It's Tom by the way. I know we do. Responding to Maddocks thread.
 
zer05ive
...there were quite a few drivers who did not race this week, but provided advanced notice. However, quite a few of those notices were very last minute. That's fine and dandy for now, but going forward should we modify our advanced notice policy by perhaps putting a deadline on the advanced notices? Perhaps 24 hours? That way, I'd be able to post the promotion and relegation decisions on Saturday night with all the advanced notices taken into consideration. Please let me know if you think that's a fair policy or if you think it's a bit too strict.
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Rallywagon
With no less then 24 hours notice. No need to leave you guys scrambling even more on Sunday.
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jag302ci
I think 24hr notice is reasonable. Let me give my 1 week notice (sorta). My wife and I are expecting our first child sometime this week or next. I predict that I may miss a race or two in the coming weeks, but rest assured I'll give a 24hr notice when the race approaches.
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dvdoughboy
I vote that advanced notice should be at least 24 hours in advance. We discussed in my lounge my reasoning for it but I wanted to post on this thread.
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leadbedr
I think you should have to give at least 24 hour notice if you are going to miss the race.

Its not fair to the other drivers that come every week and try to move up a division just to be held back by someone who shows up when the feel like it, but because the send you a PM 5 minutes before the race its all good and their spot is held.
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kcheeb
I think we make the advance notice policy 24 hours. We need time to manage the driver lists, not have to shuffle everything last minute, adjust the posts and spreadsheets, right diabolic :sly:

Last minute emergencies will come up and we can deal with them on a case by case basis.
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sharkie
I think that is very reasonable. These events do not happen on their own, they need people to organize them so things run smoothly. 24 hours is exactly what I was thinking as well. Nice Call Zer0!! 👍
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*LEAGUE POLICY UPDATE*​

We are hereby implementing a 24-hour rule for providing advance notice. This means that if you can't attend Sunday's league night, you will need to post advanced notification on this thread by 10pm Eastern / 9pm Central on Saturday night. Doing so will save your spot in the division you are in at that time. However, failure to provide 24-hour notice of an absence will subject you to relegation to the next lower division the following week.

sharkie
Zer0:
With that being said, if I point out something. This may NOT reduce the scrambling that happens on Sunday prior to the races. You may get some people who will cover there position by giving absent notices when they realize they might not be able to attend the Sunday races because they thought they saw a could over the horizon or some other "random" excuse and then you get a last minute "All Clear - I'm able to race with you guys" from these same people. I know it's childish, but you have to admit it's possible. This will still create the same jumbling of drivers for the divisions you are facing now and trying to avoid. To avoid that from happening, you may also want to consider a time limit (maybe the same 24 hours or 12 hours maybe?) for anyone who may get their schedule cleared to race.
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leadbedr
I think you will be able to figure out real quick who is doing this pretty quick and not let the same people give an excuse week after week.

I agree with the 24 hour notice to miss and a 12 hour to set the divisions up.
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I accept that the above scenario is a possibility, but I also agree that we'll catch on soon to any member who repeatedly "cries wolf" that they won't be able to race (to have their spot held just in case) and then later on announces they have the "all clear" to race after all. It may happen from time to time, but if a particular league member makes a habit of doing that, he or she will eventually be told, "Sorry, you can't race this week because you already told us you wouldn't be able to".
 
Rallywagon
Yea doughboy. Rally Night!
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Don't forget about this post. Monday Mayhem will take place in the SNAIL_Division3 lounge. Please send a friend request to "SNAIL_Division3" if you need access to it.

Rally, please post a reminder of the same when the lounge is up (as opposed to posting an open lobby room number).
 
I may be a little late though, I know, to my own party. But I got a paper I need to finish up tonight.
 
Rallywagon
But really, if you have no want to improve, do you expect people to slow down for you? I mean, to me, it sounds like your upset, cause you have no one in your skill level to race with. But you seem to lack the want to be better, instead you just put out the excuse that "it doesnt matter, I suck." In which case, you will always be outclass and no one is going to go slower to make you happy.
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I have want to improve, and I have improved. I'm much better now than I was a year ago. But it is silly to think I'm some how going to get magically better.

And I'm sorry, I'm not really upset. My ultimate goal is to find some system that works so that people of similar talents (or lack there of) can find each other and have enjoyable races. I can't really be the slowest one out there. There have to be others.

Now, reading the forums, I'm starting to wonder if all the newbs/loser/poor drivers like me are GT Fanbois that only play A-Spec or only go to online lobbies with racing tires and SRF. That's kind of a shame. I've never intentionally play GT with SRF on. I am looking for a simulator, not a video game. (I should try iRacing, but it is my understanding that they are all hardcore.)

But no, I'm really not upset or mad or sad about any of this. I really just want to find a way to make it all better. My Tuesday project is an example of that. Since I can't find drivers of similar skill, I'm trying to find a parity device that can help handicap drivers to create closer driving.

And I'm trying to avoid using Boost, and this is why:

With boost, you wreck, and the game speeds you up to catch up. So a ten lap race really just comes down to the last lap or so. So... why not just have a one lap race? And if you are going to get boosted, then what is the incentive to race clean?

With no boost, you have to race clean for the entire 10 laps. If you have a car that can keep up, then you actually have to race it. And that's what I want to do. I often wreck, but I wreck because I can't keep up and I push too hard trying. Yes, I could drive clean, but that means I drive slow. That means I was going to lose anyway.

This past week on Autumn Ring, during a race, I put in a 1:28.1. I'm pleased with that. But I did that because I was alone, had no one around me, and I could push it. So I was able to pull off some of the four-wheel drifts and get in a good lap time. Every lap around it was rubbish because I spun out trying to push it. During a race, it just isn't worth it. I should drive clean and consistent. That means I drive 1:30s.

The leaders were doing 1:27s. And they weren't spinning out.

Rallywagon
Besides, Cheeb might get data overload on his spreadsheets with more tracks and cars.
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Well, I've only seen the spreadsheet for D1. If that spreadsheet was done by one person for all divisions, then yes, I could see it being an overload. If each division dropped different tracks, and I was able to make Sundays work, then I don't mind doing the data collection for D3. That's a lot of ifs.
 
Ok, got that paper wrapped up. man, I hate parsing and writing about short stories. So much the professor wants and so little information to glean it all from. Plays are even worse!
Anywho, I'll be in D3s room in about 15 minutes to start setting up and allow people some rally practice. I'll post when I get in there.
 
jag302ci
MISS and MOPAR, wicked fast on Autumn ring, I didn't have a chance to break in my cars, apparently it makes a huge difference, you two were "out-of-sight" in a matter of 2-3 laps. Love that combination though, S2000 on Autumn ring.
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Thanks for the compliment AG :) We had practiced that track alot, and just were "in the zone" i guess.
I noticed many people saving the replay to that track/car combo compared to the others, hopefully they take note on our lines, brake points, acceleration, and throttle control, which can help them out in the future to see where they can improve.

I cant wait to see the "Data" :sly:


Vol Jbolaz
The distribution of votes doesn't scream problem to anyone?
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diabolicwyvern
I think he's implying that the d3 drivers voted to boot the toughest combo while the majority of everyone else voted off the one that provided the closest racing.
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Rallywagon
Baah, thats the prize man, thats the drive to drive better. Wanna pick the track, win. wanna win. turn cyborg? IDK, Im going to guess, that for a while at least, we can expect the same 3, maybe 4 drivers to pick the combos.
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Vol Jbolaz
I think we were voting against the drift track more so than the car. We wanted to keep the only race last night that was at all close. I don't care about winning, I just don't want to drive alone for two hours.
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Why was that combo tough Jbolaz? You say you dont want to drive alone for 2 hours, but yet it seems you want to keep the HSR combo, which in my option isnt a close racing combo. That track relies on the DRAFT to keep up, i know know how it was in D3/D2 but in D1 we had several "Packs" of cars. Some had 2-4 cars each, and some just a solo driver (drive alone for what may of seemed like hours), this solo driver couldnt catch up to a Pack of cars to save his life. Why you ask? The solo driver doesnt have a drift to help sling-shot past others, he's basically running practice laps. No chance in the world (unless the ones ahead mess up) to catch up. The HSR combo i hated, only needing to brake 2 times (atleast for me), what fun is that? Why it was "so close" is because the car couldnt pull it self out of the parking lot without needing help. I dont mind a slow car on a track that requires some sort of skill, but that would be like racing it at Daytona Speedway instead of HSR. Wait till the last corner before making a pass = win. Skill = Zero. (no pun) Luck = 100% Then you have people sandbagging WAITING for the last corner, no one wants to be the lead car because they KNOW they will lose EVERYTIME.



Apmaddock
If you're having a hard time on a car/track combo, practice it more. If you can't do that, drive it carefully when it's time to race it.
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kcheeb
There are some relatively simple techniques that can be taught and if applied will help you become more consistent and faster. Devious and Mopar have an invitation on the table.
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I know Devious has said this before, but if anyone wants help shaving off seconds from lap times just ask. PM would be preferred as you see the thread count jumps and it might be missed. PM would insure we see it.
Slow is Fast. Some of the guys i practice with here through out the week, i will see TRYING to drive the wheels off the cars, and im just cruising behind them, keeping up with ease. You need to know how to hit an Apex, brake earlier and not later for a corner, that alone will improve your times dramatically. Dont believe me, just try a classroom session and see for your self.

Rallywagon
If I bust my arse, day in and out, ignore everything but basic food and facility use, and got good enough to take on Devious and Mopar, I sure as hell wouldnt wanna share my prize with someone who's happy with being down in D3 and doesnt wanna put in the effort to move up.
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:drool: One day young Jeti one day. :sly:




zer05ive
*LEAGUE POLICY UPDATE*​
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I agree with this 100%


diabolicwyvern
Coming from a person who's picked the combo 5 times and just the car 2 more...it's hard. Aside from the nsx, which i chose purely because I liked it, I chose the BMW concept, spirit rx7, leggera, skyline, supra and jaguar. It took work but all minus the jag and supra were received well.
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Glad to hear the NSX was well recieved! :) I liked it too.

So for my first ever (woot woot) Car/Track combo pick,
NSX '91 at Cape Ring


-Devious should have her choice up by tonight-
 
Vol Jbolaz
This past week on Autumn Ring, during a race, I put in a 1:28.1. So I was able to pull off some of the four-wheel drifts and get in a good lap time. Every lap around it was rubbish because I spun out trying to push it. During a race, it just isn't worth it. I should drive clean and consistent. That means I drive 1:30s.

The leaders were doing 1:27s.
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If you over driving the car you wont finish in a good spot. You say you spun out by trying to "Push it". Try backing off just a tad, and see how that goes for you. If your trying to drive the car past your current "limit" then you will be slower all the time due to spinning, off in the grass, ect.

As for the lap times, your 1'28.1xx (almost a 27) is good, that would be a low/high D1/D2 time (im guessing). The leaders 1'27's would be D1 i think.
With a little help, you would be in the lower 27's for sure.
 
irmopars
Why was that combo tough Jbolaz? You say you dont want to drive alone for 2 hours, but yet it seems you want to keep the HSR combo, which in my option isnt a close racing combo. That track relies on the DRAFT to keep up, i know know how it was in D3/D2 but in D1 we had several "Packs" of cars. Some had 2-4 cars each, and some just a solo driver
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In D3, we had a big pack of cars and me. The only other stragglers where people who went off the course. The reason I lagged behind is because that is a horsepower course and my car had 0 miles. I'm not complaining about that. But we had a pack of cars.

At Autumn ring, everyone was spread out.

irmopars
If you over driving the car you wont finish in a good spot. You say you spun out by trying to "Push it". Try backing off just a tad, and see how that goes for you. If your trying to drive the car past your current "limit" then you will be slower all the time due to spinning, off in the grass, ect.

As for the lap times, your 1'28.1xx (almost a 27) is good, that would be a low/high D1/D2 time (im guessing). The leaders 1'27's would be D1 i think.
With a little help, you would be in the lower 27's for sure.
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The leaders in D3 were running 1:27s. Yes, I agree, don't push it, drive consistently. My overall time will be lower, even though my best lap time is higher.

Again, driving within my abilities means I'm 3 seconds a lap off the leaders. If I were closer, then I wouldn't push it. I'd enjoy myself and I'd actually race.
 
irmopars
:drool: One day young Jeti one day. :sly:
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Probably not. My Rx7 is getting closer to running, and autox/rallyx season starts real soon here.

However, outside of the NSX:crazy: I love Cape Ring. It felt good the first time I drifted that whole track. Im assuming you want the full Cape?
 
zer05ive
SNAIL_Division1 - Any tutoring, practice sessions, or practice races using the cars and tracks on the current line-up

SNAIL_Division2 - Any races not associated with Sunday's league night such as mini-enduros, recommended list or shuffle races, etc

SNAIL_Division3 - Any "non-traditional" races or "games" such as Cat & Mouse, Cat & Snail, touge, team battles, etc
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I'm interested in D1, poss D2 if there is space, but I'll defer to others if that's an issue.
 

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