[Centura]

Very interesting.

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

tribolik

You can argue that in 2010 he beat hamilton because he was faster than Massa if you catch my drift... but he certainly is one of the best most hard working drivers on the grid and hamilton on the other hand is going through a rough psycological period IMO and isnt definitly in is top form

It could also be argued that Hamilton hasn't improved much since his debut.

Something tells me Hamilton doesn't like the Pirellis and managing the tire wear. He doesn't seem to like fuel saving either. They should just give Hamilton a bigger tank.

[TopGearFTW]

ROAD_DOGG33J

It could also be argued that Hamilton hasn't improved much since his debut.

Something tells me Hamilton doesn't like the Pirellis and managing the tire wear. He doesn't seem to like fuel saving either. They should just give Hamilton a bigger tank.

Honestly I think he's gotten worse after 2008. He's less consistent and crashes a lot more (which kinda go hand in hand).

Statistically his debut season is still his best.

[niky]

Hamilton doesn't do too badly.

The problem could simply be he lacks the patience of Button.

I was watching their split times closely. Button, the "tire preserver", tapered off his lap-times as he got closer to the end of his stints. Hamilton just went faster and faster.

Hamilton's "inability" to preserve his tires has never seemed like a handicap to me. In races last year, where they were on similar strategies, he could sometimes go deeper in... two or three laps more before pitting... while on a similar strategy.

Sure, his tires would be gone by then, but he'd still pull good lap times out of them.

But driving on knackered tires probably doesn't help his frustration level. Add to that the frustration of a poor start, roasting his rear tires, allowing Button to pull away and build up a cushion as Hamilton tried to restore the balance to the car... the frustration of being behind that whole time... at the end of the race, Hamilton had completely lost his calm.

I feel, even if Vettel hadn't lucked out on that safety car and overtaken Hamilton through that brilliant pit maneuver, Hamilton still wouldn't have been a happy camper on that podium. He would have smiled a bit, maybe, but he wouldn't have been as beamingly joyous as Button.

[tribolik]

Ardius

Some interesting extra team radio from the Sky "Pitlane" stream:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpi...o-feature_auto

The most interesting part I found was about Schumacher's gearbox failure which they seemed to think was caused by Michael downshifting with the rears locking.

Oh and Hamilton wanting to pit 4 laps before the end!

So it seems that it wasnt only Kimi complaining about getting blue flags... Jenson said exactly the same thing twice... but they just didnt show it on TV, it seems there was a problem with the system.

[prisonermonkeys]

niky

I feel, even if Vettel hadn't lucked out on that safety car and overtaken Hamilton through that brilliant pit maneuver, Hamilton still wouldn't have been a happy camper on that podium. He would have smiled a bit, maybe, but he wouldn't have been as beamingly joyous as Button.

I agree. I think Hamilton was really gunning for a race victory, especially after getting pole. It would send a pretty clear message to his detractors. A lot of people were expecting Red Bull to dominate once more; Hamilton might have gotten pole in Korea last year, but Vettel won the race. And even though Hamilton won in Abu Dhabi, it only came after Vettel wiped out on the first lap (and from the on-board cameras, Vettel was all but out of sight when his tyre went). Both episodes certainly showed that Hamilton had overcome his personal demons or whatever you want to call them, but as I've just demonstrated, it's easy to say "Well, this happened ..." when describing his few brighter moments in last 2011. To take pole position and win the race would have been a pretty clear message to all his doubters. He wanted to make it pretty clear that the old Lewis Hamilton - the Hamilton other drivers were afraid of because he could challenge them for position and win, rather than the Hamilton other drivers were afraid of because it might mean the end of their race - is back.

[tribolik]

But there seems to be something wrong with Hamilton... he wanted to pit with 4 laps to go (from that team radio stream) and after being told to stay on track and finish the race he does his best middle sector of the race!!!!????

[prisonermonkeys]

I wouldn't say that's "something wrong" with him. A lot of unscheduled stops are judgement calls on the part of the driver. And as we've seen before, long-term strategy is not Hamilton's strong point. Hungary last year was a perfect example of this - he reacted to rain straight away, but it didn't last long at all. Hamilton probably felt that his tyres were at the end of their life, and wanted to pit. I haven't heard the radio call, but the team probably convinced him that if he pitted, Webber would catch him, and if the tyres went off, Webber would catch him, so he might as well stay out and try and make it home. And as Hamilton no doubt knew, McLaren had the advantage over the Red Bulls in the second sector all weekend. If he was going to stay in front of Webber, then it was going to come down to the sector times he made in the second sector.

[tribolik]

prisonermonkeys

I wouldn't say that's "something wrong" with him. A lot of unscheduled stops are judgement calls on the part of the driver. And as we've seen before, long-term strategy is not Hamilton's strong point. Hungary last year was a perfect example of this - he reacted to rain straight away, but it didn't last long at all. Hamilton probably felt that his tyres were at the end of their life, and wanted to pit. I haven't heard the radio call, but the team probably convinced him that if he pitted, Webber would catch him, and if the tyres went off, Webber would catch him, so he might as well stay out and try and make it home. And as Hamilton no doubt knew, McLaren had the advantage over the Red Bulls in the second sector all weekend. If he was going to stay in front of Webber, then it was going to come down to the sector times he made in the second sector.

Basicly they said if he pitted he was going to loose a lot of places... and that he had to stay out... and in the next lap that he had done his best second sector of the entire race... He doesnt seem to be able to keep it cool. He was on the podium on the first race of the year and it looked like someone died on the other hand Mark was 4th and he was as happy has if he had won. I think Hamilton need to loosen up.

[prisonermonkeys]

Like I said, winning the race would have sent a clear message to his detractors: that the old Hamilton was back. Finishing third after starting on pole left an element of doubt in place. Especially since he was beaten by Button - the first team-mate who has beaten Hamilton in the championship - and Vettel, the one man Hamilton wanted to beat to demonstrate that he was better. So of all the people who could have beaten Hamilton on Sunday, the two men who actually did were the two men that Hamilton needed to best himself.

[tribolik]

prisonermonkeys

Like I said, winning the race would have sent a clear message to his detractors: that the old Hamilton was back. Finishing third after starting on pole left an element of doubt in place. Especially since he was beaten by Button - the first team-mate who has beaten Hamilton in the championship - and Vettel, the one man Hamilton wanted to beat to demonstrate that he was better. So of all the people who could have beaten Hamilton on Sunday, the two men who actually did were the two men that Hamilton needed to best himself.

Surely he must realize that it was just bad luck... IMO Vettel got to second because of the safety car and Button beat him because he made a very good start and had first pit priority wich worked out very well for him and bad for Hamilton (as you can also tell by the radio stream)

[prisonermonkeys]

The pit strategy was bad luck, yes. But I doubt Hamilton forgives himself for losing the drag race to the first corner. Once Button got by him, it was all over. Hamilton never showed any sign of being able to catch him.

[joetruckv8]

So did you guys start the next's weeks tread already?

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Take a look and you shall find it.

[Tired Tyres]

prisonermonkeys

The pit strategy was bad luck, yes. But I doubt Hamilton forgives himself for losing the drag race to the first corner. Once Button got by him, it was all over. Hamilton never showed any sign of being able to catch him.

A hole shot is a hole shot. It's what happens after that that matters, with equal cars no less.

Over the first lap Button put a 1 second lead into Hamilton. Over the next two laps he escaped the DRS zone and over the first stint had 3.5 Seconds.

Once they were both on the medium tyres, he extended the lead at will. Hamilton took some time back with a fastest lap but Button was always able to take the time back again and ended up with 10.5 seconds lead.

No wonder Hamilton looked like that on the podium. Can you imagine Alonso's face if Massa did that to him?

Button made Hamilton look like a number two driver in Australia and it is up to Hamilton to respond in Malaysia.

[niky]

According to this:

http://en.espnf1.com/malaysia/motors...ory/73748.html

Hamilton had a clutch problem. Which explains why he experienced wheelspin after the start rather than on the starting line itself. The race pace was another issue, but he thinks they've got it.

That is... he thinks. We'll see in Malaysia.

[Seismica]

tribolik

But there seems to be something wrong with Hamilton... he wanted to pit with 4 laps to go (from that team radio stream) and after being told to stay on track and finish the race he does his best middle sector of the race!!!!????

It is odd, does he not remember last year? 'Whos idea was it to bring me in guys, it was a terrible idea' (Or was it 2010? I can't remember myself :lol)

niky

According to this:

http://en.espnf1.com/malaysia/motors...ory/73748.html

Hamilton had a clutch problem. Which explains why he experienced wheelspin after the start rather than on the starting line itself. The race pace was another issue, but he thinks they've got it.

That is... he thinks. We'll see in Malaysia.

In my humble opinion I think he's just trying to avoid any critiscism from starts if he continues losing places. By many regards he got off the line well, Button just did it better. If you compare his start to Webber's...

[Ardius]

Tired Tyres

A hole shot is a hole shot. It's what happens after that that matters, with equal cars no less.

Over the first lap Button put a 1 second lead into Hamilton. Over the next two laps he escaped the DRS zone and over the first stint had 3.5 Seconds.

Once they were both on the medium tyres, he extended the lead at will. Hamilton took some time back with a fastest lap but Button was always able to take the time back again and ended up with 10.5 seconds lead.

No wonder Hamilton looked like that on the podium. Can you imagine Alonso's face if Massa did that to him?

Button made Hamilton look like a number two driver in Australia and it is up to Hamilton to respond in Malaysia.

I so wish I could send these quotes of discussion into the past. Remember when everyone said Jenson was mad to go to McLaren?

[tribolik]

Tired Tyres

Button made Hamilton look like a number two driver in Australia and it is up to Hamilton to respond in Malaysia.

Hamilton is in fact the number two driver...

[TopGearFTW]

tribolik

Hamilton is in fact the number two driver...

He's the No. 2 driver in the sense that Button has a lower number on his car, but I always got the feeling McLaren treated both drivers fairly equally. Yes, Hamilton is their little prodigy, and this showed in the Alonso days, but Button never seems to get the short end of the stick to the extent Mark does at Red Bull.