2012 Malaysian Grand Prix

pezzarinho17
Source:



This is from the summarised section rather than the detailed listing of the rules. It highlights the debate at the moment though well.

The function of the DRS is never debated. Forget about what the DRS does and just see that it is the ONLY aerodynamic change that the driver can make from the cockpit. So if you are not driving a Mercedes, this button opens the rear wing flap and all is as stated.

Driving a Mercedes however, you push the same button and the same rear wing flap opens. The question is then the system which operates off the back of the DRS. What has caused it to work? The duct was covered before, but has the DRS opened it or the driver? Because the driver definitely sent a signal via a button which has affected both systems.



To me, its equal to the "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" debate. One system does not operate without the other. So you can argue that the cockpit button controls both systems making the second illegal. Or you can argue that the button operates the DRS only, and the second system begins only as an effect of the DRS.
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'any system, device or procedure'

The system in question is the DRS. As the system is completely passive, they can't justify banning the Mercedes solution without banning the driver activated device that allows it to work, hence banning the DRS itself. There are no moving parts, no moveable bodywork and it does not change the characteristics of the bodywork, only that of the air around it. They could ban the slot in the rear wing endplate, but on what grounds? There are no rules against having slots in that area of bodywork, slots are only banned in areas explicitly stated in the rules.

I just don't see how they can ban it, it's not driver operated in the same sense as the F-duct, it's passive. They had the same thing on the car last year, they have simply moved the slot to somewhere else.
 
Seismica
'any system, device or procedure'

The system in question is the DRS. As the system is completely passive, they can't justify banning the Mercedes solution without banning the driver activated device that allows it to work, hence banning the DRS itself. There are no moving parts, no moveable bodywork and it does not change the characteristics of the bodywork, only that of the air around it. They could ban the slot in the rear wing endplate, but on what grounds? There are no rules against having slots in that area of bodywork, slots are only banned in areas explicitly stated in the rules.

I just don't see how they can ban it, it's not driver operated in the same sense as the F-duct, it's passive. They had the same thing on the car last year, they have simply moved the slot to somewhere else.
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I don't either, was stating how it can be argued either way. I believe it to be passive, but Red Bull and Lotus believe that the DRS button operates it.
 
pezzarinho17
I don't either, was stating how it can be argued either way. I believe it to be passive, but Red Bull and Lotus believe that the DRS button operates it.
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Indeed. I can see how it can be argued the other way, I just don't agree with it, just as I didn't believe the blown diffuser was a moveable aerodynamic device (The purpose of the rule was to stop every wing moving according to airspeed, now it's getting out of hand in a desperate attempt to stifle innovation and slow the cars down).

PeterJB
Simply put, because he's an arse.
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:lol: Though to some extent the same can be said for all F1 racing drivers.

2007 was a real challenge for Alonso, I believe it made him stronger because he knows now he can't just expect to be no. 1, he has to fight. He went to Mclaren as a consecutive double world champion and was shown up by a rookie. Now he's trying to mimic Schumacher; a couple of championships at the Enstone team before moving on to Ferrari for the long term after building the team up.
 
There is no driver in F1 that I dislike more than Alonso, but if I ran an F1 team he is the first driver I'd sign.
 
Seismica
:lol: Though to some extent the same can be said for all F1 racing drivers.
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That's not completely true. A lot of the younger drivers are quite lovely. Seb, Rosberg, even Schumy is a nice guy now. Though, there are some sticklers in F1 past and present. I've heard some pretty bad stories about Montoya's hospitality. :ill:
 
prisonermonkeys
A win? No. The Lotus would, at the very least, need to get through the McLarens, the Red Bulls and probably Alonso. That's a tall order.
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What I remeber from Barcelona tests is that Lotus was doing well on high speed cornering. Lotus is strong at Sepang, that's for sure.

Hopefully not much raining during the race, or they will send pace car to the track to take out all the fun.


astrosdude91
Montoya
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Well that's a driver! 👍 My favourite thing to do is watching his F1 performances on youtube, even though he did some nasty things off track, and sometimes on a track too. I bet Nascar suits him good.
 
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astrosdude91
I've heard some pretty bad stories about Montoya's hospitality. :ill:
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And I have nothing but good things to say about him 3 pictures with him over the years... Very aproachable and friendly guy, but offcourse if you go asking for a picture or atograph after he's just crashed or had an off he aint gonna be very friendly.
 
astrosdude91
That's not completely true. A lot of the younger drivers are quite lovely. Seb, Rosberg, even Schumy is a nice guy now. Though, there are some sticklers in F1 past and present. I've heard some pretty bad stories about Montoya's hospitality. :ill:
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Seb is trully lovely :yuck: and Shumy is very very nice he bought me a GT-R for christmas:dopey:
 
This Merc-DRS Hogwash... Frankly, they were already the fastest on the straights, and the extra slot only comes into play when the DRS is used. They aren't fast enough to keep up with the tip of the field at the moment, so the only massive gain they get is in qualifying. Let them have their fun.
 
Is Red Bull trolling the FIA or are they trolling the FIA? They have gotten away with their fair share of things in regards to exhaust blowing so give it a rest.
 
The difference the Mercedes have with the DRS active is so minuscule that it doesn't make up for being slower in the corners. Until it has a clear advantage there's no point in making it illegal.

Is there even solid proof that it functions the way they say it should?
 
Blaze_409
Is Red Bull trolling the FIA or are they trolling the FIA? They have gotten away with their fair share of things in regards to exhaust blowing so give it a rest.
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No - the teams always complain to the FIA about each others cars. Its no different to footballers always complaining to the referee in the hopes of getting free kicks and penalties - the teams do it because its easier than having to develop it themselves with an ineffecient solution.

astrosdude91
That's not completely true. A lot of the younger drivers are quite lovely. Seb, Rosberg, even Schumy is a nice guy now. Though, there are some sticklers in F1 past and present. I've heard some pretty bad stories about Montoya's hospitality. :ill:
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Nice guy that Schumacher lad.
 
Blaze_409
I happy to see williams doing well again(holding my breath...). Good to see Frank Williams near the front again. I hope the Ice man causes a good stir in qualy and race this weekend. The Lotus looks really quick. Grosjean says the car has no major flaws and the lotus had good tire wear last weekend. Have they finally analysed why Mark Webber has such terrible starts? You would think they have a simulator just for him to practice starts.
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As an Australian, i'm pretty sick and tired of his(Webber) starts, if he can just get those right, we can see him fight more, like in 2010.
And yes, it's great to see Williams back, and i hope this form continues and it's not a one off.

I also hope Hamilton gets one back at Button, and see a Lotus(Renault) on podium again, even though i want to see a williams car more, i highly doubt it will happen.
 
have the speed stream up on one screen and live timing on the other. Wish tey could speed up all the installation laps and get down to business. I want to see what Raikkonen can do! He has so much talent to only have 1 F1 title. Should have 3 from the early Mclaren Mercedes days but that damn Mclaren was so unreliable...Or he was a car breaker depeding on who you believe

Iceman on top early in the session ! :)

Who would win a hypothetical wet race in same cars, same tires in Malaysia.
Vettel vs Hamilton vs Alonso...

I have to admit I have caught a serious case of F1 fever this season. I had watched every race from '06 - 08'. The year of the Brawns with the intro of new regs was a year I didnt follow very closely. Then i began to catch the fever last year and this year with the return of Kimi Raikkonen in the beautifully liveried Lotus I am hooked..

Hammy on top now...
Seb takes it by a hair!
 
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I feel sorry for Alonso. That Ferrari looks like crap. Theres no such thing as smooth in that car... How did Ferrari get it all wrong?
 
hawkeye122
This Merc-DRS Hogwash... Frankly, they were already the fastest on the straights, and the extra slot only comes into play when the DRS is used. They aren't fast enough to keep up with the tip of the field at the moment, so the only massive gain they get is in qualifying. Let them have their fun.
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The teams are protesting (according to Ross Brawn) not because they think its illegal but because they dont understand how it works and if he has to go to the stewards explain why it isnt illegal (how it works) then they will know and can copy.
 
I think they know how it works heck i even know how it works lol. They probably just dont feel like developing it.

Im confused. If exhaust blowing is illegal because hitting the throttle causes exhaust gasses to hit the diffuser....Then theres really no interpretation of the Mercedes drs f-duct except for being completely illegal.
1.Driver actuates drs....driver actuates throttle.
2. ducted Exhaust gas blows on diffuser...ducted air blows on front wing..
3. Illegal...Illegal.
 
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Blaze_409
I think they know how it works heck i even know how it works lol. They probably just dont feel like developing it.

Im confused. If exhaust blowing is illegal because hitting the throttle causes exhaust gasses to hit the diffuser....Then theres really no interpretation of the Mercedes drs f-duct except for being completely illegal.
1.Driver actuates drs....driver actuates throttle.
2. ducted Exhaust gas blows on diffuser...ducted air blows on front wing..
3. Illegal...Illegal.
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Yeah I can tell you know how it works and understand the regulations (and how the blown diffuser works also) :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
tribolik
Yeah I can tell you know how it works and understand the regulations (and how the blown diffuser works also) :lol: :lol: :lol:
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No i definetly dont understand how a diffuser works but the Mercedes DRS F-duct is incredibly simple.

Its just an F-duct that has been routed through a small duct along the chassis to the front wing...
The official f1 site did a short writeup on it. Its clever but it should not be legal...Its driver actuated.(that is what they claimed to get blow diffusers banned so what is the difference?)
 
Blaze_409
No i definetly dont understand how a diffuser works but the Mercedes DRS F-duct is incredibly simple.

Its just an F-duct that has been routed through a small duct along the chassis to the front wing...
The official f1 site did a short writeup on it. Its clever but it should not be legal...Its driver actuated.(that is what they claimed to get blow diffusers banned so what is the difference?)
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Only because it's activated when the rear wing is opened for DRS, which is legal.
 
Blaze_409
No i definetly dont understand how a diffuser works but the Mercedes DRS F-duct is incredibly simple.

Its just an F-duct that has been routed through a small duct along the chassis to the front wing...
The official f1 site did a short writeup on it. Its clever but it should not be legal...Its driver actuated.(that is what they claimed to get blow diffusers banned so what is the difference?)
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It's legal. You operate the DRS and it just happens to uncover a hole in both endplates when you do so.

By the way, it's not even confirmed that it's stalling the front wing.

EBD is a whole different matter. I don't remember the rules at the moment, but I think it said that you are not allowed to use exhaust gases for aerodynamic gains this year, but it's clear that some are.
 
GTPorsche
Only because it's activated when the rear wing is opened for DRS, which is legal.
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DRS is activated by the driver correct?
Throttle is activated by the driver right?

I dont have any particular preference to see it banned but I almost feel like its blatantly obvious that it shouldn't be legal. Obviously the FIa dont see it that way. Its weird because its driver actuated.

I just happened to push the throttle pedal which is connected to an engine whose exhaust pipes happen to point at the diffuser...see what i am saying.

I suppose its a little different because the teams had been developing engine maps that where extreme but it's driver actuated?

Kind of like when Mclaren intro's the original F-duct. When i could say that the driver happened to like resting his hand over this hole on straightaways..

Its all very wishywashy. I dont know how the FIA made such a quick decision. I doubt this will be the last we hear of it.
 

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