2016 Verizon IndyCar SeriesOpen Wheel 

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Maybe I'm assuming you guys know that I know and understand certain things. Let me backtrack so I'm not called a smart ass for having an opinion...

Obviously: F1 is about the car just as much as the driver. Put Vettel or Hamilton in a Marussia and he'll suck.

Obviously: NASCAR is a spec series with 3 different engine makers.

Obviously: This thread is about IndyCar :lol:


All jokes aside, IndyCar has been in an identity crisis ever since the split. There's the Champ Car side, and the Indy Racing League side. The two "merged." As to which one was better, that's debatable. Were either perfect? No

The biggest issue with the merger is that the two sides were so polarized against each other that no matter what happened, some guys weren't coming back.

Today, IndyCar is still acting like it's the first year after the merger running 1/3 oval, 1/3 road course, and 1/3 street course schedules. They've gone to a spec car, yet they're talking about uber fast new record breaking aero kits.

The management needs to pick a direction and head full speed. If they want to go 10 ovals a year then boogity boogity boogity. If they want to run every street course in America then get the temporary tire and concrete barriers ready. If they want to tighten the rules to try to keep the playing field as level as possible then close it up tight. If they want to let teams build their own cars and aero kits then open it up as free as possible. Pick a direction and go. I'm for whatever brings the most popularity in. If the majority of the fans want to see a parade/crashfest in close quarters on street circuits then I'm for that. If they want to see 5 wide at Auto Club Speedway at 200+, I can get used to that. If they want to become an American version of F1 running the beautiful road courses with open rule books, I'd watch it. If it grows the fan base by running outside the US, there are definitely excellent tracks to race outside the US.
 
This race has really shown 2 things about IndyCar:

1) Whatever Verizon has planned for marketing the series needs to start immediately. Ideally they should have some commercials starring IndyCar drivers during the Final 4 as well as the upcoming NHL playoffs. Also, I can't recall the WC guys even mentioning IndyCar, not sure why you wouldn't try getting some exposure from the other major series running at the same track during the same time as you.

2) They really need to figure out this restart thing. I really have no idea why series' insist on making restarts so confusing even the drivers have no clue what to do(imagine how big of a turnoff the Will Power thing may have been to a casual fan trying to get into the sport).
 
Just comparing F1 to NASCAR salaries and winnings, no endorsement money. Top 10 of each sport only as thats all the data there is. Danica is ranked a bit high because Forbes ranks by total income not just salary. Im sure theres a handful of NASCAR drivers not listed who have a higher base salary then Danica. If I had all the data maybe only 6 F1 drivers make the top 20.

Looks like feast or famine in F1

1. 27.1M - Fernando Alonso
2. 27.1M - Lewis Hamilton
3. 21.7M - Jenson Button
4. 21.7M - Sebastian Vettel
5. 18.3M - Jimmie Johnson
6. 14.9M - Nico Rosberg
7. 14.6M - Dale Earnhardt Jr
8. 13.5M - Kimi Raikkonen
9. 13.2M - Jeff Gordon
10. 13.0M - Carl Edwards
11. 12.8M - Kyle Busch
12. 12.7M - Kevin Harvick
13. 12.2M - Denny Hamlin
14. 11.3M - Tony Stewart
15. 11.3M - Kasey Kahne
16. 7.0M - Danica Patrick
17. 5.4M - Felipe Massa
18. 3.3M - Daniel Riccardio
19. 2.7M - Sergio Perez
20. 2.0M - Romain Grosjean
 
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Gwenbors
(Oh, and that new-ish support series they're running with? Pirelli World Challenge? Freaking amazing and an unfortunate taste of everything missing from GT :(. They were really freaking cool... http://www.world-challenge.com/ )
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The PWC is celebrating its 25th consecutive year of running this year, it's been around longer than Indycar in it's current configuration! It is certainly no support series, it is a stand alone series sanctioned by the SCCA. There are 15 manufacturers, 4 classes, all production based GTs...it doesn't get much better. You are right, with a proper event creator GT6 could be this good 👍
 
They were definitely pretty awesome. Odd that it was the first time that I'd ever encountered the group! (Though in fairness, this was the first time I'd been to St. Pete in a few years, at least since they parted ways with ALMS.) 49 different touring cars out on that course though, the place was absolutely packed! Everything from MP4-12c GT3s to Kia Touring cars. An absolutely amazing show those drivers put on. You know, it's a little unfortunate that PD spends so much time focused entirely on a handful of series (Le Mans GT3, DTM, Super Touring, and the like). There's an incredible diversity of touring cars and sanctioning bodies out there, ripe for the picking, that are largely being ignored by video game developers.

Truthfully, ever since the race, I've been having a hard time with going back to Gran Turismo just because the sounds seem so flat after the the bellow of the Cadillacs, the high-pitched scream of the Ferrari's, that raspy, metallic whine of the Lamborghinis, the almost lazy rumble of the Mercedes Benzes... My ears are bored! :D I'd definitely strongly encourage any fan of the touring stuff to take advantage of any opportunity to see that series in action!
 
PWC is great except there's a conflict of interest with the guy who owns WC Vision which owns the series being the same guy who's running the Acura 4 door sedans in the GT class which aren't GT3 homologated. I'd expect those Acuras to mop the floor with everyone here as soon as teething issues are worked out
 
Apparently Ganassi is still looking at a 5th Indy entry.


cnd01
PWC is great except there's a conflict of interest with the guy who owns WC Vision which owns the series being the same guy who's running the Acura 4 door sedans in the GT class which aren't GT3 homologated. I'd expect those Acuras to mop the floor with everyone here as soon as teething issues are worked out
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It's worked fine in the GTS class, in fact RealTime only managed to finish 4th in the driver standings well back from the Camaro that dominated the class last year. Plus, SCCA does the BoP, not WC Vision(also, the series never claimed to be a GT3 series, just a series that allows them).
 
Earth
Just comparing F1 to NASCAR salaries and winnings, no endorsement money. Top 10 of each sport only as thats all the data there is. Danica is ranked a bit high because Forbes ranks by total income not just salary. Im sure theres a handful of NASCAR drivers not listed who have a higher base salary then Danica. If I had all the data maybe only 6 F1 drivers make the top 20.

Looks like feast or famine in F1

1. 27.1M - Fernando Alonso
2. 27.1M - Lewis Hamilton
3. 21.7M - Jenson Button
4. 21.7M - Sebastian Vettel
5. 18.3M - Jimmie Johnson
6. 14.9M - Nico Rosberg
7. 14.6M - Dale Earnhardt Jr
8. 13.5M - Kimi Raikkonen
9. 13.2M - Jeff Gordon
10. 13.0M - Carl Edwards
11. 12.8M - Kyle Busch
12. 12.7M - Kevin Harvick
13. 12.2M - Denny Hamlin
14. 11.3M - Tony Stewart
15. 11.3M - Kasey Kahne
16. 7.0M - Danica Patrick
17. 5.4M - Felipe Massa
18. 3.3M - Daniel Riccardio
19. 2.7M - Sergio Perez
20. 2.0M - Romain Grosjean
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I'd wager Stewart makes the most out of anybody though, simply because he co-owns a 4 car team in Sprint Cup.
 
Justin
Apparently Ganassi is still looking at a 5th Indy entry.




It's worked fine in the GTS class, in fact RealTime only managed to finish 4th in the driver standings well back from the Camaro that dominated the class last year. Plus, SCCA does the BoP, not WC Vision(also, the series never claimed to be a GT3 series, just a series that allows them).
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I'm basing this off of the 4 door Volvo sedan and the Caddys that aren't GT3 homologated having big success there recently

Camaro dominates GTS because Lawson Aschenbach is the only pro driver that raced the whole season with a good team.
 
Andy Pilgrim may have a thing or two to do with that Cadillac dominance. (And the things are freaky fast...) That said, Thomas Enge seemed very happy in that FIA GT3 spec Lamborghini, and after the rough start absolutely dominated the rest of the field. He was just unbelievably quick. Definitely going to be a car/driver to watch this season.

The Acuras weren't there this weekend, it seems as though they've been chopped off into a TC division that wasn't running in St. Petersburg.

At any rate, I thought they were a blast, and the Indy race was great as well. (Though I was kind of hoping to see Sato take the win.) They were reasonably aggressive, we saw a lot of passing in that corner at the end of the front straight, and they were really loud! ;) Absolutely amazing to see just how those open-wheel cars handle these narrow street courses, and watching those IRL cars scream past the "30 mph" speed limit signs approaching 200mph was too funny.
 
That's why subscribing to RACER on youtube is worth it, even though it costs nothing. If you think that's impressive, check out his onboard from his Rally stint.

Would be awesome if visor cams were done more frequently, but I suspect RACER is planning on doing this for every Indycar event/every time Simon Pagenaud is behind the wheel on a race track.
 
It's only logical to market that if they use those views during the race, and none of the drivers wear a camera on their helmets during the races, so it would be pointless to do so.
 
GTPorsche
It's only logical to market that if they use those views during the race, and none of the drivers wear a camera on their helmets during the races, so it would be pointless to do so.
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If they're at the race what difference does it make ;)
 
cnd01
Today, IndyCar is still acting like it's the first year after the merger running 1/3 oval, 1/3 road course, and 1/3 street course schedules. They've gone to a spec car, yet they're talking about uber fast new record breaking aero kits.
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Actually, today's balanced schedule is just what propelled the CART PPG IndyCar World Series to its peak in 1990s. An IndyCar Champion must master oval and road/street racing. That challenge is what made me an IndyCar fan.

And due to the economy, IndyCar (along with many other racing organizations, have been forced to run spec chassis. So, the body kits are a great idea to promote manufacturer interest and competition while also containing costs and maintaining the close racing we've had over the past 2 years.

The only major complaint I have about the management right now is single file restarts for all road/street courses. As a driver, if I can start races double file, then I should have no problem restarting races double file. Double file restarts have been a hit with race fans so why "fix" something that wasn't broken?

But since reunification, the positives definitely outweigh the negatives.
+ Increased attendance at most tracks. Increased TV ratings and Internet coverage.
+ Healthy driver and manufacturer competition without the need of a contrived chase or double points rule. Our double points races actually make sense because they're longer than our other races! And our racing is easily the best in the world.
+ 2012 IndyCar Champion Ryan Hunter-Reay. The first American unified series champion since 1994, and he can win at any track.
+ The rise of American drivers Marco Andretti and Charlie Kimball, and Canadian driver James Hinchcliffe. When they learn consistency, they'll be a threat to win at any track.
+ IndyCar is once again attracting talented drivers from other series such as Barrichello, Busch, Montoya, and Villeneuve.
+ IndyCar in Forza Motorsport 5. I'm pretty sure everyone here will agree that racing games are a big reason we're fans of cars and motorsport. IndyCars appearing in major games such as Forza and GT are key to attracting kids, the next-generation of motorsports fans.
 
VNAF Ace
+ Increased attendance at most tracks. Increased TV ratings and Internet coverage.
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I question that as the last race was dismally bad ratings wise.

+ Healthy driver and manufacturer competition without the need of a contrived chase or double points rule. Our double points races actually make sense because they're longer than our other races!
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I wouldn't call 2 manufacturers a healthy competition, especially when one is probably going to be put back into bankruptcy with their latest lawsuit.

Also, even if the double points system makes sense, it's entirely unnecessary as they have had great points battles lately.

And our racing is easily the best in the world.
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That's rather subjective as there are plenty of series' that have great racing.

+ IndyCar is once again attracting talented drivers from other series such as Barrichello, Busch, Montoya, and Villeneuve.
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With the exception of Busch, all 3 of those drivers are washed up has-beens. IndyCar has a reputation lately as a series where drivers go when they can't make it in F1, that is not a good thing.
 
Montoya and Villeneuve were both successful drivers in Cart/Indy, where they both were champions and Indy 500 winners prior to going to F1, where Villeneuve won a championship, and Montoya is a Monaco Grand Prix winner. To say that they are washed up has-beens and couldn't make it in F1 is absurdly false.

Barrichello played wingman to Schumacher after racing for Jordan, so he was destined to never be successful in the series.

As it's been getting tougher and tougher for drivers to get a seat in F1, they've started looking towards IndyCar as an option if they want to stay in open-wheel racing. Nigel Mansell did that, even though he was F1 champion at the time. Senna even tested for Penske prior to the 1994 season. It happened before the Cart/IRL split, and it's starting to slowly occur again. I fail to see how that's a bad thing.
 
GTPorsche
To say that they are washed up has-beens and couldn't make it in F1 is absurdly false.
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I'm well aware of what they've accomplished in the past, I'm also well aware that they haven't done anything noticeable in nearly a decade, which makes them has-beens. I also never said those particular drivers couldn't make it in F1, but a lot of drivers that can't make it do seem to consider IndyCar an alternative.

As it's been getting tougher and tougher for drivers to get a seat in F1, they've started looking towards IndyCar as an option if they want to stay in open-wheel racing.
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This seems to contradict your last line as it's a very bad thing to be a drivers "Plan B".

Nigel Mansell did that, even though he was F1 champion at the time. Senna even tested for Penske prior to the 1994 season.
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I must have missed the rumors of top running F1 drivers considering IndyCar...

The 90's was a completely different scenario and I'm not sure sure they are comparable in the slightest.

It happened before the Cart/IRL split, and it's starting to slowly occur again. I fail to see how that's a bad thing.
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It's a bad thing because it's only been the young drivers who can't even buy an F1 ride or the guys who just don't have the speed anymore, again, it's a "Plan B", which isn't what you want to be when you are trying to be a premier series.
 
GTPorsche
Montoya and Villeneuve were both successful drivers in Cart/Indy, where they both were champions and Indy 500 winners prior to going to F1, where Villeneuve won a championship, and Montoya is a Monaco Grand Prix winner. To say that they are washed up has-beens and couldn't make it in F1 is absurdly false.

Barrichello played wingman to Schumacher after racing for Jordan, so he was destined to never be successful in the series.

As it's been getting tougher and tougher for drivers to get a seat in F1, they've started looking towards IndyCar as an option if they want to stay in open-wheel racing. Nigel Mansell did that, even though he was F1 champion at the time. Senna even tested for Penske prior to the 1994 season. It happened before the Cart/IRL split, and it's starting to slowly occur again. I fail to see how that's a bad thing.
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Montoya hasn't done anything except wreck jet dryers and everything else that's in his way since he left F1.

The same things that worked in 1994 may not work in 2014 with the economic state being much worse


Let me know when Vettel, Hamilton, and Button are racing IndyCar also
 
With the Red Bull performance this season, Vettel might as well be over in Indy for all the points he's going to get...

When did F1 become the standard of proof, though? I've yet to see any conclusive evidence of the drivers over there being in any way superior to those in Indy. Other commenters have pointed out that former F1 champs that have made the switch have done OK in the series, but certainly haven't dominated. With the cost of a contemporary F1 driver being what it is, I doubt very much that we'll ever see the likes of Nigel Mansell making the switch for a single race ever again. That said, it would be interesting to see some kind of a car/driver swap on an identical course (not that either series would ever be willing to do it).

For my two cents, F1 is an awesome spectacle of engineering prowess, and the ability of the drivers to handle those cars for lap after lap on the tracks they run is impressive. In terms of racing, though, it's more car versus track than driver versus driver. A lot of people talk down on the single chassis Indy approach, but it makes the racing a competition between drivers rather than a competition between engineers.

This is probably what makes the "engine noise" a bigger issue than it should be for F1 this year. Without the screaming engine sound, the technical spectacle that is F1 isn't as compelling as it has been in years past, and without the technical thrill, there's nothing else there to keep fans engaged.

The only real "racing" racing is between drivers on the same team who are running the same equipment. It makes Hamilton's 17+ second gap over Rossberg impressive, but it doesn't make for compelling racing.

I love F1 for its technical impressiveness, the awesomeness of the engineering, and the incredible skill it takes to handle those cars for lap after lap. I love Indy for its racing.
 
Gwenbors
With the Red Bull performance this season, Vettel might as well be over in Indy for all the points he's going to get...

When did F1 become the standard of proof, though? I've yet to see any conclusive evidence of the drivers over there being in any way superior to those in Indy. Other commenters have pointed out that former F1 champs that have made the switch have done OK in the series, but certainly haven't dominated. With the cost of a contemporary F1 driver being what it is, I doubt very much that we'll ever see the likes of Nigel Mansell making the switch for a single race ever again. That said, it would be interesting to see some kind of a car/driver swap on an identical course (not that either series would ever be willing to do it).

For my two cents, F1 is an awesome spectacle of engineering prowess, and the ability of the drivers to handle those cars for lap after lap on the tracks they run is impressive. In terms of racing, though, it's more car versus track than driver versus driver. A lot of people talk down on the single chassis Indy approach, but it makes the racing a competition between drivers rather than a competition between engineers.

This is probably what makes the "engine noise" a bigger issue than it should be for F1 this year. Without the screaming engine sound, the technical spectacle that is F1 isn't as compelling as it has been in years past, and without the technical thrill, there's nothing else there to keep fans engaged.

The only real "racing" racing is between drivers on the same team who are running the same equipment. It makes Hamilton's 17+ second gap over Rossberg impressive, but it doesn't make for compelling racing.

I love F1 for its technical impressiveness, the awesomeness of the engineering, and the incredible skill it takes to handle those cars for lap after lap. I love Indy for its racing.
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The pinnacle is marketing and perception.Massa lost the world championship by 1 point and is a terrible racer.He takes 20 laps to make a pass or gets stuck following around a slower car the whole race.Indycar drivers have overcome one thing that F1 drivers rarely have,fear.There is no bigger challenge in open wheel racing than entering turn 1 at Indy @ 230 mph trimmed out.

I would disagree about the engineering,its a huge factor in Indycar because the times are so close.Missing on the setup can bury a car on the grid and the difference can be only 0.2 sec per lap.Teams that struggled with car engineering like RLL has are stuck running 18th in points.
 
IforceV8
Indycar drivers have overcome one thing that F1 drivers rarely have,fear.There is no bigger challenge in open wheel racing than entering turn 1 at Indy @ 230 mph trimmed out.
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Yeah you probably need two hands to count the number of F1 drivers who have publicly said they are too scared to run the Indy 500. It extends beyond that, I know of at least one F1 driver who said he was too scared to run Le Mans. All those neutered Tilke tracks have made big babies out of many of them. Im for safety as much as anyone, but some of these guys sound like they've never eaten concrete and are afraid to even once.
 
Not that anyone wants to eat concrete. Indy is the most terrifying and for me dangerous motor race on the planet.
 
Earth
I know of at least one F1 driver who said he was too scared to run Le Mans. All those neutered Tilke tracks have made big babies out of many of them.
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While I have no clue who you are talking about(a google search turned up nothing), I find it be completely reasonable to fear Le Mans as the track is hard enough to navigate during the day, let alone in the dead of night. Not to mention that most of the violent crashes in the last few years have been at Le Mans (Audi's in 2011, Davidson's 2012 flip and the crashes of Krohn and Simonsen during 2013).
 
Justin
While I have no clue who you are talking about(a google search turned up nothing), I find it be completely reasonable to fear Le Mans as the track is hard enough to navigate during the day, let alone in the dead of night. Not to mention that most of the violent crashes in the last few years have been at Le Mans (Audi's in 2011, Davidson's 2012 flip and the crashes of Krohn and Simonsen during 2013).
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The driver in question is Alain Prost. His reasoning for not racing at Le Mans is concerning the different skill levels of other drivers.

His point has some truth with the Audis and Toyota crashes involving GT cars.
 
Earth
Jenson Button is another who refuses to race LeMans
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Seriously?

Jenson in the article you posted
Maybe I will when I drive one of them and drive at Le Mans, because I'd love to drive around the Le Mans circuit in a sportscar, but it's just having different categories racing together that I am not keen on.
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Anyways, I don't see many IndyCar drivers lining up for a Le Mans seat either so I'm not sure what your point is.
 
Justin
It's a bad thing because it's only been the young drivers who can't even buy an F1 ride or the guys who just don't have the speed anymore, again, it's a "Plan B", which isn't what you want to be when you are trying to be a premier series.
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I'm a fan of F1 and Indycar but I don't remember a time when Indycar was ever the premier series. Even in the early to mid '90's which some regard as the peak of CART/Indycar, F1 was still the premier series and drivers were using Indycar to get to F1.
 
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