Biggest Speed Killers
- Thread starter BPaumen
- 72 comments
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- 44,184
- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
- 1,306
- Tennessee
- tnfedexman
Braking with the "red line". I always brake late.
I have a wheel and a DS3 obviously. When push comes to shove a can get better times with the DS3. More experience I guess.
You can't deny that TT leaderboards are flooded with wheel users at the top. I guess I'm an odd duck in that respect.
I have a wheel and a DS3 obviously. When push comes to shove a can get better times with the DS3. More experience I guess.
You can't deny that TT leaderboards are flooded with wheel users at the top. I guess I'm an odd duck in that respect.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
All laps are not created equal are they? On the full Nurb it is 5 seconds a lap and the data confirms this. Obviously shorter track = smaller gap.
Whether aids slow you down depends on the person and car/tire/track combination. For experienced drivers, TC and ASM prevent you from reaching the physics limits of the game. For a less experienced pilot, those aids are a way to mitigate frequent disasters on the track and in that way they may indeed make you faster than you might otherwise be without them.
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
1. AIDS
ASM is the worst, and kills your speed completely
TC depends on your skill level - if you're fast, it will generally slow you down
AS will generally make a car easier to drive unless it understeers a lot
ABS almost always quicker than no ABS
2. Wheel vs Controller
Depends entirely on the individual - some people are super fast with a DS3 and regularly rank top 20 in a seasonal TT. Personally, I'm c.1-1.5s per minute of lap time faster with a wheel.
ASM is the worst, and kills your speed completely
TC depends on your skill level - if you're fast, it will generally slow you down
AS will generally make a car easier to drive unless it understeers a lot
ABS almost always quicker than no ABS
2. Wheel vs Controller
Depends entirely on the individual - some people are super fast with a DS3 and regularly rank top 20 in a seasonal TT. Personally, I'm c.1-1.5s per minute of lap time faster with a wheel.
- 844
- Indiana
- DSkywalker01
Skid Recovery Force
- 1,737
- Massachusetts
- Ettick_
- ASM because it limits cornering speed. TCS can be helpful for certain cars, but will often slow the car down just a little bit. ABS makes the car faster in almost every situation. SRF makes the car faster in every situation.
- Wheels just make people feel more connected with the car and therefore make it easier to focus on driving. Controllers can be just as fast.
- 203
- Ipswich
- CraigHyphenO
TC is definitely quicker in the right circumstances. I prefer to have TC in a high powered car in the rain as oppose to not having it. SRF is basically a go quicker mode, which is why most open lobbies ban it.
- 3,364
- Slovakia
- dawko-san
1. ASM definitely. TCS will mostly not slow you down a bit if set to 1.
2. I'm constantly in best 100 in TT with DS3 so... that's my answer.
2. I'm constantly in best 100 in TT with DS3 so... that's my answer.
- 239
- United States
- blutspray
I think instead of asking about speed killers, you need to flip it and ask about speed makers. And that means using, not avoiding, aids.
Many have mentioned that SRF = go faster. Not only that, all AI use it, so if the event involved AI, having it yourself means lowering the chance of you getting thrown clear off the track from a little contact.
If the car is super fast (Red Bull x2014+), TC on. Mixed with SRF it launches harder, or at least more consistently because you don't need to worry about it, just slam the throttle and go. At the same time it helps in getting on the power in a corner too.
ABS also makes one faster for the same reason, you can stand on it and not worry about lockup. I use either 1 or 2, depending on car and style. If the car understeers under power, I up it to 2, otherwise I lower it to one for more braking force and try to get it all done in a straight line.
In STR #3, since SRF was already mandatory, I was able to get it done with just ABS 1 (on a DS3). Since I don't have a good wheel that is reliable, I doubt I could have managed any other way.
In the Red Bull 3rd series, I use ABS 1, SRF, and TCS 2, and Active Steering. On some insane cars I find Mild Active Steering (or whatever it's called) to be helpful, and often see it used at the top of the leader boards too.
But for something like the later goodwoods, where it's just too fast a car, and a ridiculous time requirement and I _just_ want the gold, screw it - all the above AND bumper cam. The final aid. And like SRF and ABS, it too is "go faster mode", and just as arbitrary as SRF (or ABS in a car that doesn't actually have it).
Even with the DS3 you should be able to get almost anything done with all those. The final goodwood event still has me stymied, but I haven't been too dedicated to it...
- 3,435
- Earth, SS, MW
These are just things that aid people that are bad at handling oversteer/loss of traction. Those people will be quicker when using them obviously, but a good driver will be hindered by these electronic aids.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Correct:tup: I think people forget just how wide the spread is in skill level between Gran Turismo players. There are definitely some people that would benefit from having all the aids on simply because it will slow them down and keep them from spinning out and getting into trouble. Staying on the track for a full lap is usually faster than running off into the grass for a few 360's.
There is no one-size-fits-all cirumstance that makes everyone faster, other than SRF and ABS, one because it exceeds the physics limits of the car, and the other because it really isn't just ABS, it's more of a car stability aid that provides much more benefit than simple ABS would. Even then there are probably a few people out there that are faster without ABS, simply because they've never used it and haven't adapted to it.
- 239
- United States
- blutspray
No, that's what ABS is. It's a stability aid under braking. By not allowing the wheels to lock you maintain control. Without it, not only will you lose steering control or lock the rear and have that kick out, you also avoid issues of a single wheel locking up due to loading conditions. Simply modeling a system to avoid total lockup will result in behavior that can at times appear to be a "stability control", though that's is mostly due to the fact that people don't _think_ of it as such, so it seems like it does more than they feel it ought to.
FWIW, even real-life simple systems have complex results when used. My Bosch TCS (which is a complex system that had sensors cut off it rendering it less capable) has been known to stop a slide. It's meant to keep the wheels from spinning all the power away, yet it stopped rotation dead in it's tracks, so fast it took me a minute to even realize what happened, because my daily driver does not have TCS at all so I have gotten used to getting it sideways on this one turn and expected the car to do the same and ride it out, but it stopped dead (the rotation/slide, that is) and just went forward like it was nothing.
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- 6,968
- South Africa
..............Biggest speed killer? That'd be AI punting you off the track....
Okay, serious now. In my limited experience, traction control really robs you of a lot of power. I actually tried a "incremental decrease" of it back in GT4, and also in GT5 - turns out in some med-powered machines, TCS at 5 cost me as much 2-3 sec per lap. So TCS should go asap.
As for wheel vs. DS3 debate, it is widely accepted that wheel users are generally quicker, so I guess it all comes down to......budget. Obviously.
Okay, serious now. In my limited experience, traction control really robs you of a lot of power. I actually tried a "incremental decrease" of it back in GT4, and also in GT5 - turns out in some med-powered machines, TCS at 5 cost me as much 2-3 sec per lap. So TCS should go asap.
As for wheel vs. DS3 debate, it is widely accepted that wheel users are generally quicker, so I guess it all comes down to......budget. Obviously.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
ABS = brake assist, simple as that.
That's because it's a software assist, which is why it has slider to determine how much braking power reserved for cornering instead of braking ( higher number ) If PD model ABS system, then it won't be adjustable on road cars and it will only counteract when there's a lock up and it doesn't stabilize a car - GT6 ABS made it often have more understeer than without.
Another one is the ability to run extreme rear bias with GT6 ABS, another tell tale sign that it's an assist with stability aid. Running 1/10 BB is possible with ABS in GT6 without any risk of bad effect, do that on an actual ABS system
That's because it's a software assist, which is why it has slider to determine how much braking power reserved for cornering instead of braking ( higher number ) If PD model ABS system, then it won't be adjustable on road cars and it will only counteract when there's a lock up and it doesn't stabilize a car - GT6 ABS made it often have more understeer than without.
Another one is the ability to run extreme rear bias with GT6 ABS, another tell tale sign that it's an assist with stability aid. Running 1/10 BB is possible with ABS in GT6 without any risk of bad effect, do that on an actual ABS system
- 629
- Northants
Some race cars have adjustable ABS, including all of the GT3 cars in GT6. TCS is the same, adjustable for LMP's and GT3's for different setups/track conditions. Proper TCS will make the car faster, that's why they're using it in P1 on every car and was used in F1, even at times when it was banned, however the rather basic TCS in GT6 usually slows the car down but can help make you more consistent on a DS3.
- 3,411
- the bottom of my heart.
- kolio123
DRIVING AIDS
If you are having trouble with the wheels spinning and you are not able to get back on the gas, then TCS will help you. However, if you can put the power down, it will actually slow you down.
WHEEL VS CONTROLLER
Well, this is a tough subject to cover to be honest. It is very situational. For example, a car with good front end grip that will grab the corner, will not be as slow with a controller. However, a car with not much grip in the front, will be quite a bit fast on a wheel. If you drive a completely stock Nascar on Motegi Speedway, the lap times will be at least 4 tenths slower on the controller. If I recall correctly, a race in a league I run in with stock Nascars had seperated packs during the race. I believe the pole was a 33.756 and the fastest controller was a 34.8xx.
Don't be fooled though. This is track and car specific, I believe the wheel will almost alway be faster, but that is not a proven fact.
Hope this helps.
If you are having trouble with the wheels spinning and you are not able to get back on the gas, then TCS will help you. However, if you can put the power down, it will actually slow you down.
WHEEL VS CONTROLLER
Well, this is a tough subject to cover to be honest. It is very situational. For example, a car with good front end grip that will grab the corner, will not be as slow with a controller. However, a car with not much grip in the front, will be quite a bit fast on a wheel. If you drive a completely stock Nascar on Motegi Speedway, the lap times will be at least 4 tenths slower on the controller. If I recall correctly, a race in a league I run in with stock Nascars had seperated packs during the race. I believe the pole was a 33.756 and the fastest controller was a 34.8xx.
Don't be fooled though. This is track and car specific, I believe the wheel will almost alway be faster, but that is not a proven fact.
Hope this helps.
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- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Actually it is a proven fact. Here's the proof. Despite the overwhelming use of the DS3 in TT's with around 75% of users, 900 degree wheels absolutely dominate every single leaderboard in terms of occupying the top 100-200 spots.WHEEL VS CONTROLLER
Well, this is a tough subject to cover to be honest. It is very situational. For example, a car with good front end grip that will grab the corner, will not be as slow with a controller. However, a car with not much grip in the front, will be quite a bit fast on a wheel. If you drive a completely stock Nascar on Motegi Speedway, the lap times will be at least 4 tenths slower on the controller. If I recall correctly, a race in a league I run in with stock Nascars had seperated packs during the race. I believe the pole was a 33.756 and the fastest controller was a 33.8xx.
Don't be fooled though. This is track and car specific, I believe the wheel will almost alway be faster, but that is not a proven fact.
Hope this helps.
Take this example. The Corvette prototype TT brought out many of the big guns like eventual winner, GT legend Dholland. Participation was broad with 78,000 entries and the track long and challenging. The results?
Top 23 all with wheels
Best DS3 was 24th 4.5 seconds off the pace.
The 10th best DS3 in the world was 90th, 7.5 seconds off pace.
Most importantly I think, only when you get to about 9.5 to 10 seconds off the pace do you see a regular smattering of DS3 users.
Only 29% of the top 1000 are DS3 stick users, in spite of being 60% of overall entrants.
Yes a DS3 did squeeze out a win or two in TT's and some good finishes and on some tracks the DS3 had a better showing, but when you take the millions of data points the answer is abundantly clear. Wheels dominate, end of story.
- 11,207
- Adrian, Mich.
- cargorat323
- CargoRatt
Actually, no, it is not fact nor is it the end of the story. All you have done here is come to some conclusion/opinion based on the data available. First of all, not everybody that plays the game takes part in the Seasonal TT's, wheel users or not. Second, you also have no way of knowing if those DS3 users put in a solid, 100% effort. There are just too many variables that can come into play here for your "proof" to be taken as fact in regards to which is faster. There has been no definitive tests, that I know of anyways, to prove one way or the other. In order for this to be stated as fact one way or the other, there would have to be some official testing to be done. Until then, it is just a matter of opinion based on some results and the debate as to which is faster will no doubt go on forever.
Aussie_HSV
(Banned)
- 721
- Australia
My take on wheel vs controller.
I wouldn't think there's much question that it's easier to perform more precise and controlled inputs using a wheel.
So provided you were equally capable using both types, I imagine a wheel would produce better results.
As for the leaderboards ... the skilled, dedicated and committed players in any game will always come out on top.
And of course better equipment quite often relates to better performance.
So it's no surprise that most skilled and well practiced players of driving games end up using a wheel, and also end up topping the leaderboards.
I wouldn't think there's much question that it's easier to perform more precise and controlled inputs using a wheel.
So provided you were equally capable using both types, I imagine a wheel would produce better results.
As for the leaderboards ... the skilled, dedicated and committed players in any game will always come out on top.
And of course better equipment quite often relates to better performance.
So it's no surprise that most skilled and well practiced players of driving games end up using a wheel, and also end up topping the leaderboards.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I have a database of millions of points of data to support my conclusion, so yes it is a fact. If you have some different facts please provide them.
- 2,428
- England
- Lewis_Hamilton_
I agree with both @Johnnypenso @GTP_CargoRatt despite ther differing opinions. In my opinion, the most dedicated players are going to be spending hours on each TT and will have proper, more accurate equipment for it (a wheel), more casual players don't mind sticking with a controller, but I do think you can be just about as fast with a controller if you are skilled enough. Using myself as an example, I haven't put effort into TT's for years because I am inpatient and would rather battle door to door than against lines and ghosts. However I've finished in 4th as my best result on a GT Academy seasonal because I put a few hours into it, and I am far from the skill level of the top TT'ers and GT Academy guys. Maybe I could be faster with a wheel because my time using it is a fraction of the time I've spent with a DS3, but generally my lap times were about the same with both.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
You have a career ahead of you as a diplomat
ZedMan1996
(Banned)
- 2,597
- South East
- ZedMan1996
TCS without a doubt slows the driver down the most, in fact ALL aids WILL slwo you down unless you only have ABS left, with ABS its just a matter of personal preference, I prefer without ABS on most of my cars.
But yeah, TCS is like the worst thing to me hahaha, its soo slow.
I used to use a controller in GT5 na da bit in GT6, controllers slow you down because you cannot pull moves that you can do with a wheel, not only is it that its harder to feel the car, but its harder to detect understeer/oversteer with a controller, and turst me, when you're good, and then you get a wheel , wheels are pretty much the most fun gaming experience if you're good at racing, if you're not good at racing, people tend to get bored with wheels quick because they struggle and feel defeat, trust me, one of my friends did a review on comparing GT6 before he was good and after he was good.
You need to train yourself for stamina with a wheel, just experience will give that to you.
Wheels are harder than controllers, but out of that hardness comes a great amount of dopamine, and you can learn alot from wheels, I would hardly be the racedriver I am succeeding to be today without a wheel, you can learn a whole lot more with wheels, and thats why Ibelive they are superior.
Best wheel to recommend? G27.
Aids that slow you do0wn the most? TCS, ASM, and every other aid apart from ABS.
If you think I'm not a reliable source, then please watch me:
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- 319
- Colorado
ZedMan1996
(Banned)
- 2,597
- South East
- ZedMan1996
It is adjustable if you want to cause the car to oversteer or underseteer upon breaking, and it can be used to cure a car with originally oversteery or understeery breaks, I find break tuning one of the most important features outside of suspension.
I usuallt prefer my cars to have an oversteerry breaking style, because then I can rotate tawards the apek of the turn while braking in for it, however, it does make it a bit unstable, but I'm used to it now.
Sure fior the avarage user its meaninless, but for fine-tuners and pin-point racers, its essential.
- 448
- Santa Cruz, CA
- Reikeimaru08
Crashing. That slows you down the most.
There you go.
But yeah TCS doesn't help much either.
There you go.
But yeah TCS doesn't help much either.
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