Britain - The Official Thread

[Famine]

Sadly, we're boned. There's nothing any of us can do any more.

That's why we're all leaving to go to places that are a few stops further back on the train line of boned.

 

[homeforsummer]

What Famine said.

Keef, almighty king of keyboard libertarianism, it's the article I find amusing, rather than the situation. The situation is a steaming pile of poo, and as Famine points out, one we can do very little about, moaning or no moaning. As with the indigo one and plenty of others, I intend to scarper to somewhere better as soon as time, money and career allows.

On the other hand, I am at least a *little* carefree, and I'm in the fortunate position of living 200 miles away from the Olympics so the specific problems being discussed in the piece don't really bother me.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I sense that you making a dig at the typically law-abiding, but likes to complain a lot, Brit?

Hilarious, yeah. That's what I would do - my country bans everything (plenty of companies that aren't Olympic sponsors are cashing in, mine included, and aren't getting sued, simply by effective use of Union Jacks and the like on packaging) and deploys the military for "security" (we hired G4S, which has been a national joke for years, to guard the biggest terrorist target we've ever had and they failed terribly, so we use our military - why would we have a problem with that?) , I moan about it but am too carefree to do anything else (because it really is just a first world problem), and then I'd laugh at a news article from a different country which is making a joke of how I'm too lazy to do anything more than complain (or obey the law) when my government displays its overreaching (not really) authority over me and my willingness to submit to that authority because they've rendered me weak and frail, too scared to consider standing up for a cause (people who would protest against the Olympics should be battered by the Police for having their priorities wrong, protest in aid of something that's actually important) or taking care of myself for a chance. After that I'd probably watch V for Vendetta, think, "Yeah, that would be crazy, ( or.. 'oh no Stephen Fry's going to get killed!)" go to bed, and wake up the next morning to do it all over again. (for two weeks out of their lives, reaping all the benefits that living in London 24/7, 365 has to offer -- don't like it move!)

 

[Famine]

I'm afraid that, while Keef may be overplaying it slightly, he's a lot nearer the mark.

LOCOG in particular have taken fascism to a whole new level. Charlie Brooker had the rings as his Twitter avatar - they forced him (and many others) to remove it. This was replaced with a similar logo with the rings incorporated into the phrase "HEAVY HANDED LOSERS" - LOCOG had Twitter suspend those accounts. "Lord" Coe suggested people attending the games in Pepsi shirts should be turned away from the venues, though those in Nike trainers might be okay (later being contradicted - we'll see). Six people were arrested today, protesting against some of the sponsors (notably BP, Dow and Rio Tinto) by way of theatre, for causing criminal damage by spilling green custard on the floor - three of the arrested were mopping it up! And that's without even getting to the chips - LOCOG, somehow, have managed to ban the sale of chips (US: fries) except as part of the protected British dish of Fish'n'chips by any prepared-food retailer except official sponsor McDonalds within the area of the Olympic Park - a 1.5 square mile area with a monopoly...

It is utterly ridiculous. It's beyond utterly ridiculous.


That said, are you seriously suggesting people who protest against the UK pissing money away in the longest recession in living memory on an event barely anyone outside the south-east even wants should be battered by the police? Why?

 

[MatskiMonk]

I'm afraid that, while Keef may be overplaying it slightly, he's a lot nearer the mark.

LOCOG in particular have taken fascism to a whole new level. Charlie Brooker had the rings as his Twitter avatar - they forced him (and many others) to remove it. This was replaced with a similar logo with the rings incorporated into the phrase "HEAVY HANDED LOSERS" - LOCOG had Twitter suspend those accounts. "Lord" Coe suggested people attending the games in Pepsi shirts should be turned away from the venues, though those in Nike trainers might be okay (later being contradicted - we'll see). Six people were arrested today, protesting against some of the sponsors (notably BP, Dow and Rio Tinto) by way of theatre, for causing criminal damage by spilling green custard on the floor - three of the arrested were mopping it up! And that's without even getting to the chips - LOCOG, somehow, have managed to ban the sale of chips (US: fries) except as part of the protected British dish of Fish'n'chips by any prepared-food retailer except official sponsor McDonalds within the area of the Olympic Park - a 1.5 square mile area with a monopoly...

It is utterly ridiculous. It's beyond utterly ridiculous.


That said, are you seriously suggesting people who protest against the UK pissing money away in the longest recession in living memory on an event barely anyone outside the south-east even wants should be battered by the police? Why?

I'm not saying there aren't some stupid things being done and being said, but really how serious is all this... if people want to protest because of the expense, protest about the historic, ongoing and inevitable expenditure caused by the blatant exploitation of our Welfare system.

Not that I agree with all of the consequences of sponsorship of the games either, but I'm damn sure McDonalds have contributed more to covering the cost of the games than the local chippy... people complain about the expense of the games, and people complain about the way it raises money....👎

http://[domain blocked due to malware]/instances/400x/23746150.jpg

 

[Famine]

I'm not saying there aren't some stupid things being done and being said, but really how serious is all this... if people want to protest because of the expense, protest about the historic, ongoing and inevitable expenditure caused by the blatant exploitation of our Welfare system.

They can't do both?

Not that I agree with all of the consequences of sponsorship of the games either, but I'm damn sure McDonalds have contributed more to covering the cost of the games than the local chippy... people complain about the expense of the games, and people complain about the way it raises money....👎

McDonald's, of course, being synonymous with sporting prowess. You may as well get Red Bull to sponsor insomniacs.

The problem isn't that McDonald's have brought a lot of money to help hold the Lymps (quick further note: You're not allowed to use certain words above a certain frequency either. No, not making this up), but that, somehow, one (foreign) business and an unelected group have effected a change of law that puts all other businesses in the same field out of trading for the two busiest weeks of ever. They've bought a monopoly in their field by paying for some sports.

Perhaps those businesses should just move rather than complaining about the benefits of being in London 24/7, 365? Or perhaps they have every right to complain about being put out of trading illegally...


Still, having the law of the land ignored and changed underneath you by people no-one ever voted for because they're fundamentally unelected is first world problems, right? Won't bother you if you're law-abiding - unless you're no longer sure what laws you're abiding by.

 

[homeforsummer]

I'm not saying there aren't some stupid things being done and being said, but really how serious is all this... if people want to protest because of the expense, protest about the historic, ongoing and inevitable expenditure caused by the blatant exploitation of our Welfare system.

I'm not about to start defending people who abuse the welfare system, but welfare fraud is an almost insignificant fraction of money next to the huge amounts of money wasted on the Olympics, or the even greater amounts of money in unpaid taxes by large corporations (some of whom are almost certainly Olympic sponsors...)

 

[Famine]

Would you like to see how many Jimmy Carrs it takes to pay the tax bill Vodafone said they weren't going to pay?

 

[TyrrellRacing]

I'm not about to start defending people who abuse the welfare system, but welfare fraud is an almost insignificant fraction of money next to the huge amounts of money wasted on the Olympics, or the even greater amounts of money in unpaid taxes by large corporations (some of whom are almost certainly Olympic sponsors...)

Rephrase fraud with abuse ."Waste" is debatable. There are better things it could've been spent on but there are far worse things it could've been spent on.

Would you like to see how many Jimmy Carrs it takes to pay the tax bill Vodafone said they weren't going to pay?

infographic

Not angry at all really, they still contribute a lot to the economy even if it should be more. The only thing that really angers me is how they were able to get away with it. If they can, they will, can't really blame them for that. They should never have been able to have gotten away with it.

 

[axletramp]

I live in Jersey and haven't seen one of those blue squares.









Honest.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Still, having the law of the land ignored and changed underneath you by people no-one ever voted for because they're fundamentally unelected is first world problems, right? Won't bother you if you're law-abiding - unless you're no longer sure what laws you're abiding by.

Maybe it's because I don't live in London, maybe it's because I don't like chips, maybe it's because I don't really care about any of the sports contested at the games... mostly it's because nobody really has all the facts regarding the impact of the 0lymp1c5 (better?) yet, but I just don't think that the situation is, in reality the economic and social armageddon that people are suggesting, this is not the beginning of the end, it's 17 days out of the life of some Londoners.

Personally, If it were me I'd be more worried about it attracting terrorism than the underlying political short-comings of the whole scenario.

I'm not about to start defending people who abuse the welfare system, but welfare fraud is an almost insignificant fraction of money next to the huge amounts of money wasted on the Olympics, or the even greater amounts of money in unpaid taxes by large corporations (some of whom are almost certainly Olympic sponsors...)

I'm not talking about fraud, I'm talking about our governments misplaced generosity.

 

[homeforsummer]

Rephrase fraud with abuse ."Waste" is debatable. There are better things it could've been spent on but there are far worse things it could've been spent on.

You'll note I used the word "abuse" not a handful of words before I used the word "fraud". Two sides of the same coin, though one is more likely to be used by the Daily Mail than the other.

Either way, much as its deplorable, benefit fraud is a drop in the ocean compared to corporate tax evasion. Clearing the latter would virtually clear our national debt. Clearing the former might pay for another few days of G4S incompetence.

I'm not talking about fraud, I'm talking about our governments misplaced generosity.

You're gonna have to spell it out a bit more than that - it's been a long week and I've no idea what you're referring to specifically.

 

[TyrrellRacing]

You'll note I used the word "abuse" not a handful of words before I used the word "fraud". Two sides of the same coin, though one is more likely to be used by the Daily Mail than the other.

When I say abuse I mean claiming benefits for all your life without a single days work, perfectly legal. It comes down to you're own political views, but I don't think lying in bed all day at the expense of the taxpayer is right. The idea of the dole is to support you through hard times, not live off for your whole life, thus abusing the system, in my view anyway. Before you say, yes I do realise that most people are looking for work etc but there are millions who aren't and I've witnessed this first hand, not in the Daily Fail.

Fraud is claiming more than you're legally entitled too which is breaking the law regardless of your political views and I'l agree, it is a small drop in the ocean.

I guarantee you more money is being spent on welfare abusers than the McLympics.

Either way, much as its deplorable, benefit fraud is a drop in the ocean compared to corporate tax evasion. Clearing the latter would virtually clear our national debt. Clearing the former might pay for another few days of G4S incompetence.

Really ? Then why isn't it claimed ?

 

[ExigeEvan]

It is utterly ridiculous. It's beyond utterly ridiculous.

What do you get if you put an Olympic replica football next to an Olympic mug on a shelf and on the same aisle as an Olympic T-shirt.


A fine.

🤬 Unbelievable.

Really ? Then why isn't it claimed ?

Because companies prepared to avoid Billions of tax are prepared to spend millions on legal advice.

 

[homeforsummer]

I guarantee you more money is being spent on welfare abusers than the McLympics.

I can't find any specific figures, though it'd be a close-run thing.

Benefits and pensions cost £202 billion in 2010-2011, but it's very difficult to divide out that figure between pensions, tax credits, unemployment benefit and all the others. And it'd certainly be unfair to suggest that whole £202 billion was all fraudulent/abuse of the system...

The Failympics, as of March, were around £11 billion. I've not heard any more recent figures, but it wouldn't surprise me if the budget had crept up from that. Without knowing benefits abuse it's hard to say how closely the two figures align, but it wouldn't surprise me if the figure was very close indeed.

Incidentally, the same graph I linked to in the first link puts transport at only £6.4 billion. We spend less per year on every aspect of the country's transport network - roads, services, everything - than we've blown on one sporting event.

Also notable: £42.9 billion in debt interest, and rising. Vodafone and its ilk really need to pay up.

Really ? Then why isn't it claimed ?

Because HMRC doesn't have the balls to string up big businesses by their balls.

 

[Famine]

Maybe it's because I don't live in London, maybe it's because I don't like chips, maybe it's because I don't really care about any of the sports contested at the games... mostly it's because nobody really has all the facts regarding the impact of the 0lymp1c5 (better?) yet, but I just don't think that the situation is, in reality the economic and social armageddon that people are suggesting, this is not the beginning of the end, it's 17 days out of the life of some Londoners.

Well quite. If it doesn't affect you in any way, you shouldn't be concerned about it in any way.

First they came for the communists and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

No, not that, the other thing. You should be angry at every attempt to breach human rights whether they affect you or not.

In this instance a company has bought the law through a body no-one ever had the opportunity to vote for. You can paint it as being about chips or London or helping us with the cost of the event we (largely) don't want if you like, but the top and bottom of it is that, ignoring the effect on the people of this country, a (foreign) company has bought the law through a body no-one ever had the opportunity to vote for.

That should make you angry, especially in light of your self-portrait as law-abiding - someone can change the law you think you're following by paying people who shouldn't be any part of the process, bypassing every step of law-making with no-one's consent.


And if that doesn't make you angry, try being arrested and having conditions posted on you for a crime you've never committed...

When Adidas wanted to create a mural to illustrate the launch of its new football boot last year, it turned to "professional graffiti artist" Darren Cullen for help. Cullen, 38, runs a firm providing spraycan artwork and branding to major international companies, and says he has never painted illegally on a wall or train.

But despite having worked with one of the Games's major sponsors, on Tuesday Cullen was arrested by British Transport Police (BTP) and barred from coming within a mile of any Olympic venue, as part of a pre-emptive sweep against a number of alleged graffiti artists before the Olympics.

BTP confirmed that four men from Kent, London and Surrey, aged between 18 and 38, had been arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to commit criminal damage, two of whom were also further arrested on suspicion of incitement to commit criminal damage.

They were bailed until November under strict conditions restricting their access to rail, tube and tram transport, preventing them from owning spray paint or marker pens, and ordering them not to go near any Olympic venue in London or elsewhere. None has been charged.

This guy is a graphic designer who is now prevented from doing his job for 3 months, having been arrested on suspicion of conspiracy/incitement (that's "being suspected of thinking about") to commit a crime he's never committed.

 

[BobK]

...Lymps (quick further note: You're not allowed to use certain words above a certain frequency either. No, not making this up)

Wait a minute... you're not allowed to even use the word "Olympic" above a certain threshold? Do they think they own the word "Olympic" or something? Are they trying to throttle discussion of the Olympic Games, even if it's in reference to the ancient Greek Olympics? That's a failure of Olympic proportions.

And what about other things? Cannot get carried away with reference to Olympic sized pools? I have to moderate my discussion of Olympic National Park? I have to be careful in a discussion of the Canadian Olympic? Or the RMS Olympic? What about Olympic Paints? Or Olympic College? Or anything else with "Olympic" in the name?

Does this prohibition over the excessive use of the word "Olympic" apply only within the UK? Who gets to define "excessive", and why? Will Britain ban GT Planet because somebody posted a message with too many occurrences of the word "Olympic"? Will they come down heavy on any UK resident who quotes a message from outside the country that has more than the allowable count of the word "Olympic"? Will I have to be mindful when/if the Olympic Games is again held in the US?

Next thing you know they'll be trying to control who can and can't sell French fries/chips.

Oh wait...

 

[Famine]

An infringing association can be created by the use of any “representation”. This may be an image, graphic design, sound, or word (spoken or written) etc. One of the most obvious ways in which an association may be created with the 2012 Games is through use of the official London 2012 emblems or other official designs, images and marks related to the 2012 Games (eg pictograms, mascots). Images of the Olympic Stadium or Olympic Park could also contribute to the creation of an association. Where these are used without authorisation, trade mark, design right

Although the use of any type of representation can create an infringing association under LOAR, Schedule 4 Paragraph 3 of the 2006 Act states that certain words, when used in certain combinations, may be taken into particular account by a court when considering whether there has been an infringement of LOCOG’s right.

The words identified, referred to in this document as the “Listed Words”, are:

Group A - Games, Two Thousand and Twelve, 2012, Twenty-Twelve
Group B - London, Medals, Sponsors, Summer, Gold, Silver, Bronze

(it is immaterial in which case the words are written)

A court may take these words into particular account when they are used in the following combinations:-
Any two of the words in list A above
Any word in list A with one or more words in list B

(NB: Such combinations of the Listed Words are referred to in this document as the “Listed Expressions&#8221.

Although the use of the Listed Expressions may well create an association with the 2012 Games, there will be many situations in which their use clearly does not create an association with the 2012 Games. For example the following statements, despite using the Listed Expressions, are unlikely, by themselves, to infringe LOAR as no actual “association” (see (b) below) is created by the statement

However, the use in question must always be considered as a whole. In some cases, the words used in an advert for example, may not create an association in themselves, yet the cumulative effect of using other words or imagery etc may be to create an infringing association. Remember, LOAR can be infringed even if the Listed Expressions are not used. For example, an advert for a train company with a slogan “Come to the Capital this summer – see the world” does not in itself create an association with the 2012 Games, but if the advert is run in 2012, pictures athletes running through London past 2012 Games’ venues, dressed in national kit and carrying Olympic-style torches, the advert will create an association with the 2012 Games, despite no use of the Listed Expressions.

So now you know.

Incidentally, amongst the stupidly heavy-handed applications this has been used for so far was a butcher who made five ring sausages and put them on display with "2012" underneath.

 

[Leo0308]

Curious how this Olympic shambles is only now causing a fuss. The whole sponsorship nonsense came across my desk before Christmas and it was obviously ******** then. We only nodded it through 'cos #10 would have gone ape.

 

[hawkeye122]

So Prince Harry? What up?

Or is there already a thread?

 

[MarcoM]

Let me help: http://www.tmz.com/2012/08/21/prince-harry-naked-photos-nude-vegas-hotel-party/

Shame always that you always are being filmed. I mean, what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.

 

[axletramp]

Good luck to him. Hope he had a wicked time. At least he's not shagging one of his relative's like plenty of his predecessors did.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Good luck to him. Hope he had a wicked time. At least he's not shagging one of his relative's like plenty of his predecessors did.

No one I've heard has had any complaints, apart from a republican on Facebook who believed it was all tax payer funded, until I pointed out harry's inherited wealth.

 

[axletramp]

Good point. Plus he does actually have a paying job as a Captain in the British Army, a role he's just about to go back to in Afghanistan.

 

[MarcoM]

Playing a captain in Afghanistan or playing with chicks in Vegas. Priorities, Harry does it right.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

A huge non-issue as far as most people in the U.K are concerned. A member of the armed services letting his hair down before going back on tour, the only thing unusual about it is that he's a royal.

As long as he is professional 'out there' and in his royal duties, who cares?

 

[PeterJB]

I've been waiting a long time for those kind of pictures!

 

[TheCracker]

I've been waiting a long time for those kind of pictures!

ginger nuts.

 

[PeterJB]

Good point, forgot the carpet matches the drapes.

 

[axletramp]

I want to know why he's wearing a red sheriff's badge on his backside. And no, 'red sheriff's badge' isn't a new euphemism...