Buttkicker now available again!!

[Mr Latte]

I got the BKG2 since I don't have any home theater equipment and had no idea what to expect from any of these sort of transducers. The BKG2 is nice because it's a complete package at a good price that gives satisfactory results, sort of a test-the-waters idea. I'm sure I'll expand my LFE in the future to fancier stuff, but I wasn't ready to shell out $300+ for the experience.

You don't need to spend $300 as I showed prices are really good for Tactile unit alternatives and you could get a decent stereo amp for about $100. It doesn't need to be an audiophiles dream for tactile either.
Nothing wrong with what you have at all, my point is though that you can get better alternatives and if you like the Gamer are happy that's what matters. I started with one unit myself all because of jswilli but got hooked on experimenting with more.

 

[jswilli1]

Hi again,

Just to point out that the frequency range does support up to 17Khz but that is in audible frequency range, as they also act like a speaker.

However the tactile frequency range on most Clarke units is 800hz.
The BKA 300 you have I believe does indeed offer upto 200hz so the Clarke still offers 4x more. Yes as centre tactile the Clarke will give more response with engine revs.

What would I do, mmmmm well.

The TS209 is remarkable for the price and while not offering the oomph of the BKs yes it is more sensitive. If you bought 2x of these rather than the silver for similar money then you could get the benefits of wider spread of tactile without needing as much amplification. Combine these with your LFE and it will complement them really well as I have tested for sometime on my Gamepod used in stereo with the LFE. You could consider doing that and maybe later get one for the centre as well.

The TS209 can also be mounted vertically while some oth Clarke models can't. parts Express have the PDF manuals etc.

Ahh Geez Latte, your making this difficult and making very valid points! Do you prefer the left/right channels over the center channel? Also while doing B-spec I really noticed the engine noises coming from the rear channels. Hmmm got some experimenting to do and see what path I should follow. The other issue would be mounting the transducers but they may fit in the sides of my chair!

 

[Mr Latte]

The 209 came with lots of different mounting bolts and even screws for wood. Be spot on for a couch type chair as yours.

Yeah go with stereo over the centre, you can always test one as centre for reference. The spec differences between T209 / Silver are not that big and you have the backup low end bass in the LFE.

The only issue you may have with them is maybe wanting to reduce treble so an amp with treble control or EQ will let you tinker around.

Rise888 was certainly impressed with his so of course feedback from him would give you more confidence,

 

[jswilli1]

The 209 came with lots of different mounting bolts and even screws for wood. Be spot on for a couch type chair as yours.

Yeah go with stereo over the centre, you can always test one as centre for reference. The spec differences between T209 / Silver are not that big and you have the backup low end bass in the LFE.

The only issue you may have with them is maybe wanting to reduce treble so an amp with treble control or EQ will let you tinker around.

Rise888 was certainly impressed with his so of course feedback from him would give you more confidence,

Latte I forgot I have a Sony ES receiver in storage that I replaced with the Onkyo a few years ago, I wonder if I could use the amplifier section from that to drive the two Clarke T209's? Using the Left/Right (or Center) Surround pre-outs from the Onkyo I might be able to make it work. I know it's bulky but it is (was) Sony's top of the line amplifier in its day. I can always get a smaller amp later, Will have to pull it from storage this weekend and check it out. The LFE combined with left/right channels is starting to sound very interesting!

 

[jswilli1]

The 209 came with lots of different mounting bolts and even screws for wood. Be spot on for a couch type chair as yours.

Yeah go with stereo over the centre, you can always test one as centre for reference. The spec differences between T209 / Silver are not that big and you have the backup low end bass in the LFE.

The only issue you may have with them is maybe wanting to reduce treble so an amp with treble control or EQ will let you tinker around.

Rise888 was certainly impressed with his so of course feedback from him would give you more confidence,

Latte I forgot I have a Sony ES receiver in storage that I replaced with the Onkyo a few years ago, I wonder if I could use the amplifier section from that to drive the two Clarke T209's? Using the Left/Right (or Center) Surround pre-outs from the Onkyo I might be able to make it work. I know it's bulky but it is (was) Sony's top of the line amplifier in its day. I can always get a smaller amp later, Will have to pull it from storage this weekend and check it out. The LFE combined with left/right channels is starting to sound very interesting! 👍

 

[rise888]

Latte I forgot I have a Sony ES receiver in storage that I replaced with the Onkyo a few years ago, I wonder if I could use the amplifier section from that to drive the two Clarke T209's? Using the Left/Right (or Center) Surround pre-outs from the Onkyo I might be able to make it work. I know it's bulky but it is (was) Sony's top of the line amplifier in its day. I can always get a smaller amp later, Will have to pull it from storage this weekend and check it out. The LFE combined with left/right channels is starting to sound very interesting! 👍

I used my old receiver to power one TST209. I plan to buy a second transducer to do full L/R effects. Pictures and details of my install here:

http://www.saltywet.net/2011/03/05/final-piece-of-the-project-clark-synthesis-tst209/

 

[jswilli1]

I used my old receiver to power one TST209. I plan to buy a second transducer to do full L/R effects. Pictures and details of my install here:

http://www.saltywet.net/2011/03/05/final-piece-of-the-project-clark-synthesis-tst209/

I believe I see your second receiver in the last picture. I think my Sony ES manual is at the house so I will have to pull it tonight. This is starting to sound/feel like a plan!

 

[Mr Latte]

Yeah Sony ES are pretty good "Elevated Standard" I think it was for. As long as your amplifer/receiver supports 4ohms. Some older models (not so much now) have a switch or menu setting for changing the ohm output of the amplifer.

You could try with 8ohm but it may cut out with high volumes or may damage the unit.

PS3 supports only 5.1 with multi ouput mode. So a modern 7.1 receiver can use the 5.1 or upgade it to 7.1 via PLIIx etc for your speakers. Then via STEREO OPTICAL into your secondary Reciever/Amplifer again use Dolby Pro Logic etc to upscale the stereo to multichannel. Now you have easy connection for multi-tactile configurations.

Thats why a decent and tbh oldschool (90s model) second hand bargin AV unit is ideal having good quality amplification and allow you to run several "Tactile Units" as you decide to buy them.

Does this help?

Im happy to see some of you get into this "Tactile Surround" idea.

 

[OwensRacing]

/\ EXCELLENCE!

I got a line on an older AV unit. This is great idea. I will do stereo and just use this for two units while keeping the current BK2 on the low side of my SRS setup.

 

[jswilli1]

Yeah Sony ES are pretty good "Elevated Standard" I think it was for. As long as your amplifer/receiver supports 4ohms. Some older models (not so much now) have a switch or menu setting for changing the ohm output of the amplifer.

You could try with 8ohm but it may cut out with high volumes or may damage the unit.

PS3 supports only 5.1 with multi ouput mode. So a modern 7.1 receiver can use the 5.1 or upgade it to 7.1 via PLIIx etc for your speakers. Then via STEREO OPTICAL into your secondary Reciever/Amplifer again use Dolby Pro Logic etc to upscale the stereo to multichannel. Now you have easy connection for multi-tactile configurations.

Thats why a decent and tbh oldschool (90s model) second hand bargin AV unit is ideal having good quality amplification and allow you to run several "Tactile Units" as you decide to buy them.

Does this help?

Im happy to see some of you get into this "Tactile Surround" idea.

My Sony ES is a Dolby PLII unit which is why I upgraded to the Onkyo. I was looking at my Onkyo last night and came up with a few Ideas: The first was utilizing Zone 2 to run the Clarke's but will not work because it only uses a source input that is Analog so HDMI input is out of the question. The second idea is 7.1 because I am using 5.1 and I wonder how connecting the Clarkes upto the "Back" Surround channel would work? these are the speakers that would be in the back 2-3 feet from the couch, not the Rear Surround speakers. the other item I need to check on is the pre outs on the onkyo for center, left, right as I don't know if these are active when using the speaker outs? If they are active then adding an external amp to run the clarke's will be easy. I still have to measure my chair to make sure I have mounting room since they are 8" in Diameter and roughly 2.25" inches thick (ea). I prefer to mount them internally in the chair vice externally. I haven't ruled out my Zone 2 option on the Onkyo because I could use the RCA secondary audio out from the PS3 to the Onkyo and run the clarkes that way. My only concern is I wouldn't be utilizing the Dolby Digital codecs from the game for engine revs, etc. (Zone 2 uses analog input only not digital). Will have to tinker with it this week while I'm off, probably need to just order two of the Clarkes to start off with and play around with my existing options.

The optical option would work with my Sony ES and I could enjoy the Dolby Digital game titles on the PS3 and drive the Clarke's. I wish the Onkyo would take a digital input (optical) on Zone 2 as this would fix all my issues! my Onkyo is 130W per channel (7 channels).

 

[Mr Latte]

Some new photos coming for you guys later. Will reply back to some points as well.

JSwilli, PS3 will also output analogue stereo via the PS2 type AV connector, ahaaaaaa, so if you want to try that zone 2 option using your Onkyo for STEREO (B) that should work.

I've noticed something last night the Centre channel isn't as effective as I first thought regards engine revs. I was getting tactile running all along my Gamepod from the side mounted stereo T209s right down to the pedal section where I had the Centre tactile. The Centre seems to give exhausts okay from cars in front and mainly the crash bangs.

The surround channel is actually in GT5 much more lively and responsive than the Centre tactile. I've attached a T209 to the rear of my Sebring Pro and the cool thing is with it acting like a speaker also it produces an extra depth to the surround speakers already used within the room.

 

[Mr Latte]

Cobra Sebring Pro Seat
Clarke Tactile TS209 = Rear Surround Tactile / Mono
2x Buttkicker Mini LFE = Left/Right Tactile
1x Buttkicker BKA 300 = LFE (will be attached to Gamepod Evo metal seat mount)

This is giving me pretty good effects and really liking the surround tactile effects which combine really well with the stereo and low bass effects of the LFE.

 

[jswilli1]

Looks like I may have waited to long to order as Amazon is out of the Clarke TST209 as well as Parts Express. Hmm maybe the Silver transducer will come down in price since the TST209 is no longer produced.

 

[Mr Latte]

Are you sure as I have one shipped as of yesterday from Parts Express and it is still listed on offer.
The Silver - Platinum are all the same 8" size and with the same 800hz range for tactile. They just seem to offer more Bass and power.

EDIT Their website states more stock on the 25th is expected.
Were do you get the idea they are no longer made?

Drilled one onto the left of my seat today as I only had two of these and when this new one arrives it is going on the right hand side if the seat.
So the one shown on the back is now acting as "Back Surround"
The left/right ones will be "Surround"
The underneath ones are the front "Stereo"
The LFE via the BKA300 is being mounted to a steel plate that will impact the whole seat rather than be directly mounted to the seat itself.

 

[rise888]

I ordered my 2nd TST209 and it was shipped out yesterday. I feel lucky now

 

[Mr Latte]

I ordered my 2nd TST209 and it was shipped out yesterday. I feel lucky now

Look forward to more of your comments.
You could try using as a surround channel to get an idea what that offers. That has impressed me loads more than the "centre" being on tactile. I take it you have opted to go for the stereo configuration?

Update on my Parts Express Dispatch: Not far to go now...

03/14/2011 ~ 14:20:00 Picked up MIAMISBURG OH
03/14/2011 ~ 14:17:49 Shipment information sent to FedEx
03/14/2011 ~ 21:45:00 Left FedEx origin facility MIAMISBURG OH
03/15/2011 ~ 00:13:00 Arrived at FedEx location INDIANAPOLIS IN
03/15/2011 ~ 01:09:00 Departed FedEx location INDIANAPOLIS IN
03/15/2011 ~ 04:42:00 In transit INDIANAPOLIS IN
03/15/2011 ~ 05:42:00 Departed FedEx location INDIANAPOLIS IN
03/15/2011 ~ 17:02:00 At dest sort facility STANSTED ES
03/15/2011 ~ 20:34:00 Int'l shipment release STANSTED ES
03/15/2011 ~ 20:34:00 In transit STANSTED ES
03/16/2011 ~ 01:07:00 In transit STANSTED ES
03/16/2011 ~ 09:25:00 Delivery exception BELFAST
03/16/2011 ~ 09:33:00 At local FedEx facility BELFAST


UPDATE 2:
Well that is brillant service from Parts Express and Fed Ex.
Ohio - Northern Ireland
Ordered Monday - Arrived Wednesday

Will get this one attached tonight.

 

[jswilli1]

Are you sure as I have one shipped as of yesterday from Parts Express and it is still listed on offer.
The Silver - Platinum are all the same 8" size and with the same 800hz range for tactile. They just seem to offer more Bass and power.

EDIT Their website states more stock on the 25th is expected.
Were do you get the idea they are no longer made?

Drilled one onto the left of my seat today as I only had two of these and when this new one arrives it is going on the right hand side if the seat.
So the one shown on the back is now acting as "Back Surround"
The left/right ones will be "Surround"
The underneath ones are the front "Stereo"
The LFE via the BKA300 is being mounted to a steel plate that will impact the whole seat rather than be directly mounted to the seat itself.

I went to parts express and entered a qty of two and it stated that they were on backorder but did not give a date when they would have more in. I assumed that the TST209 was no longer manufactured since they are not listed on the Clarke Synthesis site anymore. Amazon showed out of stock I guess since parts express was the primary lister on Amazon. Will keep my eye open and see if they get anymore in stock, got the OK from the wife to purchase them.

Looks like they are back in stock! Will do my order on friday.....

 

[Mr Latte]

I think Parts Express has an exclusive on this model. I've never seen it listed on their official site.

Look forward to you getting them and read your thoughts.

Got my seat all set up with the additional two on the sides, loving it.

 

[jswilli1]

I think Parts Express has an exclusive on this model. I've never seen it listed on their official site.

Look forward to you getting them and read your thoughts.

Got my seat all set up with the additional two on the sides, loving it.

Sounds good Latte! I think I will start with the two Clarke's and hook them up via zone 2 on my Onkyo to utilize that amp. I will even try the Back surround channels and see how those perform in 7.1 (since I pass alot of cars! ). It appears that I may have to mount the clarke's external to my chair unless I get creative with the mounts. I have not ruled out my Sony ES amp, In fact I may run and grab it from storage today.

 

[Mr Latte]

Ive found the "Back Surround" channel to be much louder in GT5 and have to turn it down compared to the others. Well take into account its only inches from the back of my head being approx in between my shoulder blades. The only issue with Clarke's is balancing the volume to get the tactile feel you want from them without them being too loud as a speaker. Thats why I ended up going with EQ but on the chair havnt used them with EQ yet. I would like to add more bass/mid range to them and reduce the higher frequencies to tailor them exactly to how Id like them sounding/feeling. The objective to increase the tactile effect but control the audible sound.

Although I only use the one "Back Surround" in GT5 it acts almost like the "Centre" channel giving the engine sounds of the car. Hearing up coming cars is possible but you dont hear them that much till they are virtually on top of you. What is good though is when you get a tap in the back from a car behind and when they are just about alongside you.

As a test when you get the new tactile place them on your chair just beside your legs and try these connected to different channels. Thats what I first did to discover how and when exactly the game utilised each channel. It might let you determine what is best for you.

GT5 in itself is a drawback as many of the cars have limited audio. If anything they feel/sound much better in cockpit view when you look backwards out the rear window. It is much more lively when you do that. Sound quality also varies very much between cars, some are very poor in dynamics or sheer grunt.

 

[rise888]

Added the 2nd TST209 to the bottom of my seat. I wanted to put them on the inside "sides" of the seat base but I did not have the height clearance. This works well enough though.

It's much better having two channels of transducers over having only one before. I have the 2nd receiver receiving input via optical (multi-out) from the PS3.

I noticed that frequencies and intensity vary greatly from car to car and even track to track.

What are some of your favorite tracks and cars to show off your transducers? Rome is nice because of the cobblestones can be felt through the chair.

 

[jswilli1]

Added the 2nd TST209 to the bottom of my seat. I wanted to put them on the inside "sides" of the seat base but I did not have the height clearance. This works well enough though.

It's much better having two channels of transducers over having only one before. I have the 2nd receiver receiving input via optical (multi-out) from the PS3.

I noticed that frequencies and intensity vary greatly from car to car and even track to track.

What are some of your favorite tracks and cars to show off your transducers? Rome is nice because of the cobblestones can be felt through the chair.

I believe you and Latte had wiped out the inventory at parts express last week, but all is good as I should receive my two clarke's this week. I will keep my BK advance on the LFE channel and the Clarke's on my second A/V Sony ES left/right channels like your setup. If all goes well I will add a third Clarke as a center. I am thinking on adding speaker terminals on my chair like I did for the BK since I move my chair when not in use. This would allow for any transducer testing on any channel on either receiver from any PS3 output. Can't wait for them to arrive! Funny how this has evolved over the past two years, who would have known how tactile immersion would play a part in sim cockpits especially multiple transducers. After this project I think I will be doing a 3 screen setup.