Do you believe in God?

[Azuremen]

So in short, you are unable to provide any evidence beyond what Tankass provides - "Because God and Bible say so."

Honestly, I'd just stop posting in here if I were you, because while I thought you were presenting valid points and formulating them well, you've just degraded into the same mindset all theists that feel their interpretation of God is the only one - everyone else wrong but me and my friends.

I'd like to think God would be willing, since he supposedly does care for people, to allow them to have their own interpretation of His will and presence, rather than forcing a rigid system upon everyone. Which makes me wonder = how do you feel about homosexuals?

Baptism in my mind is idiotic. At least in how it is typically practiced, which is at birth - a new born child has no concept of Faith, and yet you are clearing of Sins it could not have yet committed.

As for the narcissism, I think you've shown that in a lovely way, so thank you for validating that point.

Buddhism and its philosophy offers a far better solution then what you've suggested. And has brought me much more peace of mind, both for myself and the well being of others.

As a point of curiosity, were you raised in a religious family?

 

[Recon]

Because God >>> Because Jesus >>> Because Holy Spirit

I lol'd hard when I saw this.

Because Holy Spirit.

And this.

Azuremen
Why?

Because God.

Agreed.

And especially this. (Only because it's been going on for a while)

Funny thing is, no one here has provided a shred of tangible evidence to go against God.

But more importantly, there has been no evidence for Him, which is why I remain unconvinced.

Sorry to butt in, but there's my

.

 

[masterrawad]

Not really. I think that Jesus is real but I think that reincarnation is real-er.

 

[Sach]

So in short, you are unable to provide any evidence beyond what Tankass provides - "Because God and Bible say so."

"By faith alone."

Honestly, I'd just stop posting in here if I were you, because while I thought you were presenting valid points and formulating them well, you've just degraded into the same mindset all theists that feel their interpretation of God is the only one - everyone else wrong but me and my friends.

Stooping lower now.

I'd like to think God would be willing, since he supposedly does care for people, to allow them to have their own interpretation of His will and presence, rather than forcing a rigid system upon everyone. Which makes me wonder = how do you feel about homosexuals?

Rigid system? Faith alone, not works. There is much freedom.


Homosexuality is condemned in the bible, however I personally do not view it any worse than say, "If you have lusted with your eyes, then you have committed adultery in your heart." I don't pretend to judge people with any authority by the same standard by which I am also guilty. And Christ spoke of forgiveness, not judging.

Baptism in my mind is idiotic. At least in how it is typically practiced, which is at birth - a new born child has no concept of Faith, and yet you are clearing of Sins it could not have yet committed.

You are referring to the Catholic (and others) baptism, which is different than what the bible speaks of. The one you mention is an outward expression to God made by the parents, but the bible speaks of an inward reformation made by the accountable person themselves.

Buddhism and its philosophy offers a far better solution then what you've suggested.

I never offered a solution. I offered the truth.

And has brought me much more peace of mind, both for myself and the well being of others.

Peace of mind is not the point.

As a point of curiosity, were you raised in a religious family?

No.

I lol'd hard when I saw this.



And this.



And especially this. (Only because it's been going on for a while)



But more importantly, there has been no evidence for Him, which is why I remain unconvinced.

Sorry to butt in, but there's my

.

No worries.

 

[HP]

I'd like to think God would be willing, since he supposedly does care for people, to allow them to have their own interpretation of His will and presence, rather than forcing a rigid system upon everyone. Which makes me wonder = how do you feel about homosexuals?

I'm interested to see the response to this, 👍 for raising it Azure.

Theists have a habit of dissecting the bible and interpreting in any way that suits them and this is one area that it gets a fair amount of it. AFAIK god despises the practice and will happily send all gay and lesbian folks to hell without a second thought. What happens these days however is different because theists can't preach anti gay or they end up with a) less followers and b) a large mob of grumpy gay folk on their church steps protesting their exclusion and imminent one way trip to the lake of fire.

There could also be innumerable lawsuits arising from it so their answer is to publicly state that "relegion has changed" and "that bit is no longer valid" and gladly proclaim their church to be tolerant.

I ask ALL theists this: Do gay people get excluded from heaven because of being gay?

It's all about image... if it was all about the word of god then there would be a lot less gay folks out of their proverbial closets and the world would be worse off for it 👎

Oh and if anyone takes from this that I've a problem with being gay I don't, got a few close friends who are, I'm making a point that theists use different interpretations (of the bible and its verses) to suit their needs as they see fit.

 

[Sach]

AFAIK god despises the practice and will happily send all gay and lesbian folks to hell without a second thought.

You are incorrect, my friend.

There could also be innumerable lawsuits arising from it so their answer is to publicly state that "relegion has changed" and "that bit is no longer valid" and gladly proclaim their church to be tolerant.

You cannot legally reprimand someone because the tents of their faith reject something you believe in, if they are not breaking the law.

I ask ALL theists this: Do gay people get excluded from heaven because of being gay?

All sinners fall short, and all are sinners.


"By faith alone, so that none may boast."

 

[HP]

You are incorrect, my friend.

Can you please clarify the relevant scripture for me? Like I said, AFAIK so I'm a bit hazy on that, been a while since I curled up to read the bible

You cannot legally reprimand someone because the tents of their faith reject something you believe in, if they are not breaking the law.

Technically you might be correct... but you can still try and you can still drag the church through the mud publicly. I do work in a law firm mate, it's not as black and white as saying it can't be done.

All sinners fall short, and all are sinners.

So, everyone is going to hell no matter what? What a bummer! I'm going anyway for sure because I willingly, and with great vigor & joy, committed the only unforgivable sin; blasphemy of the holy spirit, guess I'll see all you gay folks there - bring me a case of beer can ya

"By faith alone, so that none may boast."

If it is by faith alone then why does the church ask for so much money?

And that's a yes or no question mate, do they or don't they?

 

[Sach]

Can you please clarify the relevant scripture for me? Like I said, AFAIK so I'm a bit hazy on that, been a while since I curled up to read the bible

1 Tim. 2 - This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Technically you might be correct... but you can still try and you can still drag the church through the mud publicly. I do work in a law firm mate, it's not as black and white as saying it can't be done.

That's fine.

So, everyone is going to hell no matter what? What a bummer! I'm going anyway for sure because I willingly, and with great vigor & joy, committed the only unforgivable sin; blasphemy of the holy spirit, guess I'll see all you gay folks there - bring me a case of beer can ya

If it is by faith alone then why does the church ask for so much money?

And that's a yes or no question mate, do they or don't they?

Many ask for money, yes.


A church is a different thing than a faith itself. Churches often provide nurseries for the congregation's children. Many provide breakfast and coffee. Some use the money to sponsor mission trips, or local programs, etc.

 

[Starfirebird]

If it is by faith alone then why does the church ask for so much money?

And that's a yes or no question mate, do they or don't they?

Which leads me to ask this question.Which I will answer.

If money is the root of all evil,then why does the church beg for it?So they can keep brainwashing and keeping people in fear.

I do love this thread though,when I miss a day I go and make me some popcorn
and get caught up on the drama.

 

[homeforsummer]

False. It is not random, and is based on God's presence in reality.

God's *hypothetical* presence.

If you have sinned, then you have sinned. If God is to be just, then sin must be accounted for, otherwise He would cease to be just. I'm sorry that you have a problem with the scenario which you are not able to change.

And if you haven't sinned? Like an innocent child growing up to be lumbered with original sin?

I've no problem with it, since I don't believe in it anyway. I just think its ludicrous.

What part of "all are born into sin" does not imply "everyone"?

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

I understand "everyone" - I just think it arrogant or Christians to assume that their God's rules somehow apply to those who don't believe in him. If I was Hindu, why should the Christian/Jewish/Muslim God's rules apply to me?

It'd be like me being bound by america's laws even though I live in the UK.

Faith is not about "enjoying your life" and is therefore not required to do so

Not according to TankAss a few pages back.

Ephesians 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

You do realise bible passages mean absolutely nothing to me, right? My point is that I can live by what you'd consider religious values... Except I don't need religion to do so.

 

[arora]

LOL still on the bible I see, it still proves or disproves nothing, it's agreat topic for atheist to stay in their comfort zone though.

@Heath, about gays, and also '' all go to hell'', from the books perspective faith alone, not works so no, it says those with faith. Just to clarify, it means little to me what one might believe but if you wish to bash the bible at least know what it says.

On a lighter related note......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_5kv8QeBBc



on ps3 so if embed is wrong oh well.

 

[HP]

@Heath, about gays, and also '' all go to hell'', from the books perspective faith alone, not works so no, it says those with faith. Just to clarify, it means little to me what one might believe but if you wish to bash the bible at least know what it says.

I wasn't bashing the bible mate, it's not worth bashing - I see that book as a hodge podge of mistranslated writings from another time completely and if it was authored today not a single publisher would touch it.

And faith? All with faith? So you're telling me that a man can have sex with a man and get in to heaven? Let's not pull punches here, two men having sex aren't married; they are not, in the eyes of god, a lawful union. So they both have faith despite living this way and both live to an old age and die peacefully after riding each other for 50-60 years... So then it's off to heaven? I gues they can apologise for it though, but will it be enough to fool gods in-built lie detector?

I'm tired of those with "faith" hiding behind that word. Every time a hard question gets asked the same things get said and it's not a theological discussion; it is akin to a child who gets caught doing something red handed but denies it anyway and that's what those here are doing when they use faith as their only argument or their 'fallback safety net'.

Seriously guys, can't you actually debate instead of using the same bloody word over and over.

 

[Crushed]

I believe in God but I just can't get over these questions...

1. Its all about faith right? But it all depends on which family you grow up in. If your born a Catholic of course your gonna be Catholic. ALL the big religions are based on faith...

2.Why? Why would there be a God? How come humans are the center of the universe and not animals? Maybe its just because Humans are smart so they can make up stuff?

3. Who made the creator?

 

[nitrorocks]

The creator made the creator

 

[Crushed]

 

[HP]

The creator made the creator

Wrong........ Chuck Norris made the creator then he beeatch slapped him for being so whiny and that caused the big bang. Chuck then said he wanted a huge floating orb to play on and told the creator that he has 7 days to make it.

The creator came good but when Chuck discovered the Creator had filled his orb with huge lizards he was wroth and he roundhouse kicked the creator and the shockwaves caused the destruction of all the wrongly wrought lizards.

Chuck Norris told the creator that he has one more chance to redeem himself and said he wanted creatures made in His awsome image but that all awsome females must not have beards because that wouldn't befit a hottie, it is this reason that non hot babes have beard growing ability.

Chuck then plucked from his mighty chin one hair and decreed that all other beards shall be of his own and therefore those men sporting huge beards will be revered above all others.

It was then that Chuck was happy with His work and He smote the creator thusly and ordered him invisible and to dwell in the sky forever where he will forever be scorned and where he shal say such ridiculous things as "the meek will inherit the earth" which is rubbish because Chuck ain't giving his orb to anyone and most certainly not to meek bastards!

Here Endeth The Lesson

 

[arora]

I'm not hiding behind a word, just saying what is in the book. I've tried to bring up other topics then religion in this thread many times but atheists only like arguing relegion. I'ts not my fault philosophy is uncomfortable compared to science.

Shallow minds, or sensable ones, either way.......... I really only defend the right of any man to his concience, you know, the right to define ones existence.

 

[niky]

This is the remarkable thing about these discussions. The only thing that I am suggesting is that there are things that exist outside of the realm of objectivity and scientific law which are applicable, important, and evident in every persons' life, every day. You all on the other hand, are limiting yourselves to the confines of objectivity, yet you present me in the light of a close-minded person.

Experiences with God are not glitter on a pillow.

Here's the problem with this entire line of argument and the past several pages.

It's treating the word "objective" as if it's a dirty word.

As I've said before: I live in a subjective world. I make subjective judgment calls every day. I enjoy subjective sensations, like the thrill of wonder at a sunrise or sunset, the beauty of the moon, the love and comfort of a family member... the joy of having made another person's life a little easier by offering them help in a time of need.

And yet, when I am faced with something incomprehensible, what do I do? I attempt to comprehend it. Somehow, the mere suggestion that you try to find out the mechanism by which an event occurs is reprehensible to you.

I have not denied that you've experienced what you experienced.

I have not denied that it could mean something.

What I deny is the fact that you specifically say it means exactly what you think it means while refusing to study the matter any further.

Why?

Are you afraid that it will be proven to occur through some mundane mechanism?

Are you afraid that this would "disprove" God?

Of course it won't!

As we have discussed here... no amount of physical evidence will disprove the possible existence of an immaterial God. And as you have stated, it is a matter of "faith". So what's wrong with testing your experiences?

-----

Remember, I am not here as one who completely denies the existence of God. I merely feel that we, as mere humans, can understand what God or the Prime Mover (if a prime mover exists) is like.

-----

Remember, also, that this is not a judgment of morality. You can be a very moral person whether or not you believe in God. It's not a matter of faith. You can have faith in very profound things or faith in very superficial things.

I think the disconnect here is that you feel that we are comparing him to very superficial things, only. Fair enough. Replace banana with a forty-foot tall archangel with a flaming sword. Doesn't change the need for evidence.

Granted, the concept of God is not superficial, and the existence of God does have a very profound impact on our lives.

But this very fact, the fact that God is so important, is what causes me to question and probe and question some more.

Something so important cannot be left to chance. Some people may be willing to take the existence of God for granted, and may be willing to take evidence or the lack of it at face value, but I can't.

 

[Bobalob]

it's prob been said before but if god exists he gave me my rational mind and if he has chosen to make my life one big trick question he really is a dick.

Can't wait for my transcending experience to kick in so I can have a few words with him about it.

 

[Dapper]

Niky wrote-

Remember, I am not here as one who completely denies the existence of God. I merely feel that we, as mere humans, can understand what God or the Prime Mover (if a prime mover exists) is like.

What gives you the idea that if there is a God, or prime mover, you'll be able to understand it? That is like... super faith.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Wrong........ Chuck Norris made the creator then he beeatch slapped him for being so whiny and that caused the big bang. Chuck then said he wanted a huge floating orb to play on and told the creator that he has 7 days to make it.

The creator came good but when Chuck discovered the Creator had filled his orb with huge lizards he was wroth and he roundhouse kicked the creator and the shockwaves caused the destruction of all the wrongly wrought lizards.

Chuck Norris told the creator that he has one more chance to redeem himself and said he wanted creatures made in His awsome image but that all awsome females must not have beards because that wouldn't befit a hottie, it is this reason that non hot babes have beard growing ability.

Chuck then plucked from his mighty chin one hair and decreed that all other beards shall be of his own and therefore those men sporting huge beards will be revered above all others.

It was then that Chuck was happy with His work and He smote the creator thusly and ordered him invisible and to dwell in the sky forever where he will forever be scorned and where he shal say such ridiculous things as "the meek will inherit the earth" which is rubbish because Chuck ain't giving his orb to anyone and most certainly not to meek bastards!

Here Endeth The Lesson

So much WIN here...

 

[Exorcet]

Niky wrote-

What gives you the idea that if there is a God, or prime mover, you'll be able to understand it? That is like... super faith.

Why couldn't you? What if he wanted you to and it was in his power?

Either way, we need to be able to understand God in some form if he's actually going to interact with us. If he is there, but we can't understand him, it's as if he's not there at all from our point of view.

 

[Dapper]

Why couldn't you?

I didn't say one couldn't. First one would need to know what was to be understood.

My response was aimed at the idea of being able to understand what can't be proven. That is far more radical than religion or creationism. If we don't know, how can we understand?

This ultimately leaves me with the anthropomorphic image of God (because this is an idea we can understand), which is inherently silly and Ptolemaic in my opinion.

 

[Exorcet]

If we don't know, how can we understand?

Find out.

I don't think niky was saying that God must be understandable, but that he may be (if he's there).

But I guess I could have misinterpreted.

 

[Dapper]

Find out.

Like I said the other day-

The thing I find annoying about many atheist, and it seems like the ones who stand up for atheism and vehemently oppose religion are the worst offenders, is that they won't concede to the fact there are things humans do not understand, in other words, that there are things that are unexplainable.

 

[Exorcet]

That doesn't apply to what I said.

 

[Touring Mars]

The thing I find annoying about many atheist, and it seems like the ones who stand up for atheism and vehemently oppose religion are the worst offenders, is that they won't concede to the fact there are things humans do not understand, in other words, that there are things that are unexplainable.

I can't think of any atheists who won't concede to the fact that there are things humans do not yet understand... nor that there are things that may never be fully explained by science.

But there's an important point to remember here - if science cannot adequately answer certain questions, what makes you think that your own gut feeling/personal beliefs/something you heard a pastor say is any more adequate?

All respectable scientists know that there are limits to current knowledge and don't pretend otherwise. Scientists and atheists alike are comfortable with this - but neither believe that it is adequate or indeed acceptable to pretend to know what we actually do not know. That is the preserve of faith.

 

[huskeR32]

The thing I find annoying about many atheist, and it seems like the ones who stand up for atheism and vehemently oppose religion are the worst offenders, is that they won't concede to the fact there are things humans do not understand, in other words, that there are things that are unexplainable.

I find this, in fact, to be opposite of reality. Most atheists acknowledge when they don't know the answer. What we "vehemently oppose" is theists who claim to know the answers but can't back it up with any evidence. These are the people who truly don't concede that there are some things that humans currently don't understand.

 

[Strittan]

I can't think of any atheists who won't concede to the fact that there are things humans do not yet understand... nor that there are things that may never be fully explained by science.

Neither can I.

But there's an important point to remember here - if science cannot adequately answer certain questions, what makes you think that your own gut feeling/personal beliefs/something you heard a pastor say is any more adequate?

Exactly. This is what annoys me about many, if not most religious people.

 

[Dapper]

I can't think of any atheists who won't concede to the fact that there are things humans do not yet understand... nor that there are things that may never be fully explained by science.

When discussing a deity, that is agnosticism.

But there's an important point to remember here - if science cannot adequately answer certain questions, what makes you think that your own gut feeling/personal beliefs/something you heard a pastor say is any more adequate?

That would only be relevant if I were imposing my beliefs on others.