Gran Turismo 6 vs Forza Motorsport 5-Test Drive SRT 2013@Bathurst

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Okay.

It sounds great and certain to be popular among sim racers. I was just wondering if this type of 'tech' is suitable for young children and beginners who know nothing about driving, racing or cars?

You sure you're not wondering if simulations full stop are suitable for young children and beginners?

There's nothing innately more difficult about Assetto Corsa (or any other "hardcore" simulation) than Gran Turismo for someone with no exposure to cars. There are plenty of assists and it can be made almost completely tame to drive, just as Gran Turismo can if you switch on ABS, TC, ASM and SRF. Neither game is a particularly good simulation when you do that, but that's not the point. The point is to get people into the game, and that's totally possible regardless of the underlying physics.

If the person has real world driving experience, then the better the simulation the quicker they'll adapt. Your average adult has thousands of hours of driving experience to tap into, and if they can use those skills straight away that's a huge advantage. Likewise, people with real world tuning and mechanical experience are better off if the game treats it's tuning in a way that is consistent with their real world experiences, instead of having to learn a new system through trial and error.


And it's nothing to do with a controller versus a wheel either. Assetto Corsa plays just great with a controller. If you can play GT well with a controller, you can play AC well, with or without aids. I've tried it quickly with just the stock controller settings, and it feels very nice.
 
Okay.

It sounds great and certain to be popular among sim racers. I was just wondering if this type of 'tech' is suitable for young children and beginners who know nothing about driving, racing or cars?
These kids do not seem to me frustrated because it is not easy to drive GoKART in real world.
 
OK, I noticed strange behavior of some FF car "GT 6" in F5 cars are driven differently. In "GT 6" on some non-modified cars working a powerful anti-roll bar as you think it is realistic? But some cars similar to the F5. Volkswagen Sirocco R in F5 even more stable than the "GT 6"

and I made a video

 
Scirocco R has so many assist in the real car, most sim racer would disgusted by it :lol: and no, they can't be all turned off completely even with special reading/diagnostic tools :lol: The ESP can be turned "off" (2012 MY and later )- but this is not really proven to completely disable all electronic assist as the system has been reported to function in secret to monitor "emergency" braking that will bring back ESP online. ESP OFF feature only shut down the TCS and Electronic Braking System (still not clear if all of function disable as the ESP can back on automatically ) ABS can be turned off with fuse removal, but to completely disable all assist PERMANENTLY, an ECU rewrite is required.

Some of the assist that will make the Scirocco R stable, safe and less understeer :

"Torque Steer Compensation (TSC)
Description: Using the Steering Assist controller (not the brakes), TSC will help prevent torque steer on tuned cars. A TSC of 1 is used by default in higher HP FWD VW models like the VR6 FWD Passat."

"Brake Assist
Description: Brake assist will make it so you do not have to push down on the brake pedal as hard before the brakes engage. It does not actually make the brakes any stronger. Some people like this, some people feel it makes heel/toe harder."

"ASR Anti-Slip Regulation, which detects wheel slippage and applies braking force to that particular wheel. Working with an Electronic Differential Lock at speeds below 25 mph, ASR controls throttle response to maximize traction and minimize slipping for enhanced driver control in tight cornering situations. "

"DSR Driver-steering recommendation.
The driver-steering recommendation is an additional function of the electronic stability programme (ESP). This function indicates to the driver in critical situations by means of slight steering wheel impulses the direction evaluated by the system, in which the vehicle must be steered, so that it stabilizes. The driver-steering recommendation is active when braking sharply on different road surfaces and on the right and left vehicle side."

"XDS is an advanced electronic differential lock, linked to a ESP system. In moments of fast cornering XDS gives out exactly the right amount of power, providing pressure on the inside wheel to prevent wheel spinning. The result is better traction and a reduction of any tendency to under steer."

These can't be permanently disabled in any way :lol: I bet FM5 should simulate this in the car, no ?
 
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Hey man I know you. You're that same guy that makes those bias videos saying how Forza is superior and even saying Forza 4 sounds better than 5 for some reason. To me it looks kinda ironic seeing how you're asking for people to take you serious on GTPlanet while your YouTube channel shows you shouldn't be trusted. Please prove me you've changed because frankly, seeing how you're comparing a cone slalom to steering at a much faster speed doesn't look good on you.
 
Hey man I know you. You're that same guy that makes those bias videos saying how Forza is superior and even saying Forza 4 sounds better than 5 for some reason. To me it looks kinda ironic seeing how you're asking for people to take you serious on GTPlanet while your YouTube channel shows you shouldn't be trusted. Please prove me you've changed because frankly, seeing how you're comparing a cone slalom to steering at a much faster speed doesn't look good on you.
Let's allow him to explain what we're supposed to see in the video before we pre-judge him based on contributions made elsewhere. I'd like to see what he has to say about it.
 
You sure you're not wondering if simulations full stop are suitable for young children and beginners?

There's nothing innately more difficult about Assetto Corsa (or any other "hardcore" simulation) than Gran Turismo for someone with no exposure to cars. There are plenty of assists and it can be made almost completely tame to drive, just as Gran Turismo can if you switch on ABS, TC, ASM and SRF. Neither game is a particularly good simulation when you do that, but that's not the point. The point is to get people into the game, and that's totally possible regardless of the underlying physics.

If the person has real world driving experience, then the better the simulation the quicker they'll adapt. Your average adult has thousands of hours of driving experience to tap into, and if they can use those skills straight away that's a huge advantage. Likewise, people with real world tuning and mechanical experience are better off if the game treats it's tuning in a way that is consistent with their real world experiences, instead of having to learn a new system through trial and error.


And it's nothing to do with a controller versus a wheel either. Assetto Corsa plays just great with a controller. If you can play GT well with a controller, you can play AC well, with or without aids. I've tried it quickly with just the stock controller settings, and it feels very nice.


Then it should sell bucket loads.
 
Hey man I know you. You're that same guy that makes those bias videos saying how Forza is superior and even saying Forza 4 sounds better than 5 for some reason. To me it looks kinda ironic seeing how you're asking for people to take you serious on GTPlanet while your YouTube channel shows you shouldn't be trusted. Please prove me you've changed because frankly, seeing how you're comparing a cone slalom to steering at a much faster speed doesn't look good on you.

My channel is partly trolling, partly my stormy fanaticism when I was disappointed as the sound of the engine changed in F5 compared to F4. But I happen serious. behavior of FF cars in F5 and "GT 6" puzzled me.

I understand - that the Abarth 500 to IRL slalom speed is much lower than 100kmh, but it's the best video - that I could find about this vehicle. Find better What I see there - makes me think - what GT6 more correctly simulates abart500 (even though - I'm a fan Forza motorsport)
 
OK, I noticed strange behavior of some FF car "GT 6" in F5 cars are driven differently. In "GT 6" on some non-modified cars working a powerful anti-roll bar as you think it is realistic? But some cars similar to the F5. Volkswagen Sirocco R in F5 even more stable than the "GT 6"

and I made a video


What tires are you running on GT6? Anything beyond a comfort hard or medium wouldn't be correct. It would explain the high rear traction. Then again, it's not like the car is FR. So easy spin outs aren't going to be common on them. In fact, it should realistically happen when pulling the E-Brake, since that connects to the rear brakes.
 
What tires are you running on GT6? Anything beyond a comfort hard or medium wouldn't be correct. It would explain the high rear traction. Then again, it's not like the car is FR. So easy spin outs aren't going to be common on them. In fact, it should realistically happen when pulling the E-Brake, since that connects to the rear brakes.
It should however have some lift off oversteer on entry which can't be achieved in GT6 without using noABS braking or putting gimped tires on the back. Spirited corner entry should probably also lift it's rear tire which it also doesn't, like so:

Windsor-20140903-02302.jpg
 
Okay.

It sounds great and certain to be popular among sim racers. I was just wondering if this type of 'tech' is suitable for young children and beginners who know nothing about driving, racing or cars?
You may be surprised to hear this, but I find driving in AC actually much easier than in GT6. I find the cars are easier to keep straight and more predictable through corners, and just plain easier to drive (and more fun). I think it's actually more suited for beginners than GT6.
 
You may be surprised to hear this, but I find driving in AC actually much easier than in GT6. I find the cars are easier to keep straight and more predictable through corners, and just plain easier to drive (and more fun). I think it's actually more suited for beginners than GT6.
I find this too in many ways and I think it's because in AC cars do exactly what they are supposed to do physics wise and the information is communicated back to me through a brilliant combination of sound, visuals and FFB so that you always know what the car is doing. In GT, even with the new FFB which is definitely better, you still feel somewhat disconnected from the car and the FFB is both weaker and delivers less information.
 
Right now in he GT series, even within the restricted adjustments you can make, do they really do anything?
For example, tire width, areo packages? An why is it not possiable to adjust each wheel's suspenion individually?

Making settings is one thing. Making those settings have a palpable effect on driving is another.
Somehow I think this has been lost with the GT series. And with it goes realism.

That is the heart and soul of a simulation racer/driver. How can you even say you have NASCAR without the ability to set the suspension on each wheel? The same with any sort of racing. It's just not realistic enough to be called a simm racer. It's an arcade gaming experience with decent feel. PD need to ramp up the realism, and overhaul parts of the game in order to give it a more technical (racing) soul.
 
What tires are you running on GT6? Anything beyond a comfort hard or medium wouldn't be correct. It would explain the high rear traction. Then again, it's not like the car is FR. So easy spin outs aren't going to be common on them. In fact, it should realistically happen when pulling the E-Brake, since that connects to the rear brakes.
ordinary tires, I have not changed.
 
Right now in he GT series, even within the restricted adjustments you can make, do they really do anything?
For example, tire width, areo packages? An why is it not possiable to adjust each wheel's suspenion individually?

Making settings is one thing. Making those settings have a palpable effect on driving is another.
Somehow I think this has been lost with the GT series. And with it goes realism.

That is the heart and soul of a simulation racer/driver. How can you even say you have NASCAR without the ability to set the suspension on each wheel? The same with any sort of racing. It's just not realistic enough to be called a simm racer. It's an arcade gaming experience with decent feel. PD need to ramp up the realism, and overhaul parts of the game in order to give it a more technical (racing) soul.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/gt7-tuning-options-poll.315350/
 
It should however have some lift off oversteer on entry which can't be achieved in GT6 without using noABS braking or putting gimped tires on the back. Spirited corner entry should probably also lift it's rear tire which it also doesn't, like so:

View attachment 243019

How stiff the springs on that car ? Thick ARB at the front and no roll bar at the rear ? Street tires ?
 
How stiff the springs on that car ? Thick ARB at the front and no roll bar at the rear ? Street tires ?
No idea. Completely stock, with stock street tires. I'm awaiting my new PC so I haven't updated to the 1.0 AC and can't give you settings. However, in AC you also don't get to see settings you cannot adjust and in most street cars ARB are not adjustable so there's no way to see the settings. The livery is custom, but it's just a street version of the car.

Windsor-20140903-02301.jpg
 
It should however have some lift off oversteer on entry which can't be achieved in GT6 without using noABS braking or putting gimped tires on the back. Spirited corner entry should probably also lift it's rear tire which it also doesn't, like so:

View attachment 243019
The thing is, it doesn't seem like he's "lifting off" to get that oversteer. I haven't raced in real life much, but when I did, it was always FWD and I was told "when it doubt, power out", because you'll keep your traction (or understeer) which is easier to correct than oversteering.
 
No idea. Completely stock, with stock street tires. I'm awaiting my new PC so I haven't updated to the 1.0 AC and can't give you settings. However, in AC you also don't get to see settings you cannot adjust and in most street cars ARB are not adjustable so there's no way to see the settings. The livery is custom, but it's just a street version of the car.

View attachment 243208

That's an Abarth 500 right ? The stock spring rate is quite soft IRL with only slightly stiffer rear, and the Abarth suffers a lot from front end dive under heavy braking and body roll. I don't think the rear wheel lift is common on street tires / stock car.
 
The thing is, it doesn't seem like he's "lifting off" to get that oversteer. I haven't raced in real life much, but when I did, it was always FWD and I was told "when it doubt, power out", because you'll keep your traction (or understeer) which is easier to correct than oversteering.
Both of those pictures I posted were on corner entry at Magione, different corners too.
 
Tested out the Abarth. I WAS able to get it to lift off oversteer. Though it was harder to reproduce than it probably should be. I can try another FWD car that's faster.
 
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