Gran Turismo 6 vs Forza Motorsport 5-Test Drive SRT 2013@Bathurst

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Another sim you really really (really) need to give a try is Game Stock car Extreme- with the right settings it's the best sim for 2 seaters
I bought a new PC today and I downloaded the demo.
But if I have to be honest I do not like it.
I can not feel when rear end starts to slide through the force feedback.
And the slide is strange,because it is very difficult to hold the slide.
 
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I do not have GT5, but I need a video - as Ferrari F1 stops with 300 kilometers per hour. (186 miles per hour) to compare with Forza 5.
In Forza 5 - Lotus F1 stops with 186 mils per hour for 50-60 meters !!! While in reality - not less than 100 meters.
I need gt5 video to check, please.

P.S. Ignore the sound) I did this video to friends, so there is Russian language :)



Wow, lol. Can't imagine the G forces from braking that hard! Lol!
 
I bought a new PC today and I downloaded the demo.
But if I have to be honest I do not like it.
I can not feel when rear end starts to slide through the force feedback.
And the slide is strange,because it is very difficult to hold the slide.

Welcome to real simulations. :)

You may need to do some work to adjust the FFB settings to suit your wheel. Once it's right it feels good.

As far as sliding, if the majority of your racing experience is with Gran Turismo then you're going to find it hard to catch slides. I'm sorry, but Gran Turismo lets you get away with a lot compared with more advanced sims.

The main thing I would suggest is sticking with one car, and being very careful to keep in mind the effects of weight transfer, and how the position of your throttle and brakes affects the car. Start slow on a short track, and work your speed up a little bit at a time. You'll find it much easier to adapt to how the car feels and where and how it starts to lose grip with slow entry/fast exit, than if you're coming into the corners too fast.

Once you're comfortable manipulating the attitude of the car mid-corner, you'll be able to catch most slides no problem. And that's why GT doesn't help, because it offers very limited ability to manipulate the car mid-corner, so it's an entirely new skill to most GT players.

If you're still having trouble and would like any advice then feel free to PM me. I'm not the greatest driver in the world, but I'm good enough that I'll be able to help you make the car behave as you want it to at least.
 
As far as sliding, if the majority of your racing experience is with Gran Turismo then you're going to find it hard to catch slides. I'm sorry, but Gran Turismo lets you get away with a lot compared with more advanced sims.

I always found GT6 to be the hardest game to catch slides in, at least with a wheel. It always feels like there's a small amount of input lag that absolutely ruins everything, I can never get it right. Most other sims seem to be pretty forgiving (at least as far as road cars go) much like in real life.
 
Welcome to real simulations. :)
Thank you very much Imari!
You may need to do some work to adjust the FFB settings to suit your wheel. Once it's right it feels good.

As far as sliding, if the majority of your racing experience is with Gran Turismo then you're going to find it hard to catch slides. I'm sorry, but Gran Turismo lets you get away with a lot compared with more advanced sims.

The main thing I would suggest is sticking with one car, and being very careful to keep in mind the effects of weight transfer, and how the position of your throttle and brakes affects the car. Start slow on a short track, and work your speed up a little bit at a time. You'll find it much easier to adapt to how the car feels and where and how it starts to lose grip with slow entry/fast exit, than if you're coming into the corners too fast.

Once you're comfortable manipulating the attitude of the car mid-corner, you'll be able to catch most slides no problem. And that's why GT doesn't help, because it offers very limited ability to manipulate the car mid-corner, so it's an entirely new skill to most GT players.

If you're still having trouble and would like any advice then feel free to PM me. I'm not the greatest driver in the world, but I'm good enough that I'll be able to help you make the car behave as you want it to at least.
As far as the FFB(I can feel the exact moment and how much the car slides)and I can hold the slide without a problem in Live for Speed.
I will try today Simraceway and rFactor2 demo.
And that's why GT doesn't help, because it offers very limited ability to manipulate the car mid-corner, so it's an entirely new skill to most GT players.
Trust me I know the best way to manipulate GT cars in mid-corner.
 
I find way more easier to drift in other sims, Asseto Corsa for example. In GT6 or 5, maintaining a drift is way more difficult for me for some reasons I ignore.
 
Harder to hold a drift does not equal to better simulation :) Try holding a drift on Tokyo Extreme Racer Drift 2 / Kaido: Touge no Densetsu 2 :P I have built a replica of my own car there, not as easy to drift as in real life at all :lol:
 
To be honest, I find it easier to drift in anything other than Gran Turismo as well. I was only pointing out that the skills to drift/catch slides in GT aren't really compatible with other sims, whereas if you can catch drifts in AC, you can probably catch drifts in rF2 and GSC (and others) as well.
 
It's easy to drift on GT5/6 with a DS2, even easier than D1 GP2005/2006 on PS2 which uses clutch, clutch kick baby :P If that game is on PS3, I would definitely get a wheel to do the clutch kick with my foot :lol:
 
I bought a new PC today and I downloaded the demo.
But if I have to be honest I do not like it.
I can not feel when rear end starts to slide through the force feedback.
And the slide is strange,because it is very difficult to hold the slide.
Welcome to the darkside:lol:.
 
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I actually hate autovista. Please kaz give us more premiums instead of something like that. I want to drive the cars not look at them.
 

To some degree, you can't compare real life to the videos you show..

Many of the cars in GT do not have realistic handling and it shows even worse when trying to compare reality to GT. Tire age, track temps, and tens, probably over one hundred other variables affect a comparison as such.

Many of the YouTube crash videos at the Nurburgring, specifically at the Brunnchen corners, show cars oversteer massively and crash into the right side barriers head on, and those who carry too much speed into the sand trap on the left. A few cars that I have tested in GT and seen on those videos do react alike, but not all. Granted, that does not mean both cars had the same setup, tires, etc... but the characteristics of the corner and abilities of the suspension allow for physics to take control..

Driver input/error is also another issue which can't be replicated, unless it is entirely recorded via computer and replayed via computer.. Otherwise, similar results just wont happen after each other.

Even if they were, stock suspensions of PD are completely broken. You may use or create replicas in order to have the same driving as RL.
Yup... but I do recall Jeremy Clarkson doing a review of the new Golf and throwback to the original of how it could go one up (unfortunately I cannot find the video of such)..
 
Game released in 2013 with game released in 2013? Yep.
I'm not sure how this comparison really works. Are they similar products? Yes, they are both sims. Did they release around the same time? Yes. But the platforms they are on are massively different. And whether or not people like to admit it, hardware makes a massive difference on what can be done with software.
 
I'm not sure how this comparison really works.
Take one thing and compare it to another. The point of comparisons often is to point out strengths and weaknesses.

And whether or not people like to admit it, hardware makes a massive difference on what can be done with software.
Which begs the question, why would a dev release a game for weak hardware? Whatever the answer is, that does not make any short comings to next gen competition go away.
 
I'm not sure how this comparison really works.
Because neither game exists in a vacuum. GT6 didn't come out in 2012, or even early 2013 when it might have been more impressive when it's closest direct competition would have been Forza Horizon or something. PD (or Sony) chose to release their latest entry in their tentpole franchise on an outdated system over a month after its direct market competitor released as a launch title. If we operate on the assumption that all of GT6's shortcomings compared to Forza 5 as it pertains to the video in the OP are due to being released on 7 year old hardware after its successor system already launched, that simply raises the question of why is that an excuse for those shortcomings?


The developer that used to sell systems based on what were essentially tech demos they put together to showcase next gen power (first GT2000 in relation to the just-released GT2, later GT HD in relation to the just-released GT4) should be the very last one to fall back on "we didn't have the hardware to match them" when they made the choice to handicap themselves in the first place and they were intimate enough with the new hardware in question to talk it up before they even released said game. And that's already assuming that system limitations are the reason behind the things in the video in the OP.
 
Because neither game exists in a vacuum. GT6 didn't come out in 2012, or even early 2013 when it might have been more impressive when it's closest direct competition would have been Forza Horizon or something. PD (or Sony) chose to release their latest entry in their tentpole franchise on an outdated system over a month after its direct market competitor released as a launch title. If we operate on the assumption that all of GT6's shortcomings compared to Forza 5 as it pertains to the video in the OP are due to being released on 7 year old hardware after its successor system already launched, that simply raises the question of why is that an excuse for those shortcomings?


The developer that used to sell systems based on what were essentially tech demos they put together to showcase next gen power (first GT2000 in relation to the just-released GT2, later GT HD in relation to the just-released GT4) should be the very last one to fall back on "we didn't have the hardware to match them" when they made the choice to handicap themselves in the first place and they were intimate enough with the new hardware in question to talk it up before they even released said game. And that's already assuming that system limitations are the reason behind the things in the video in the OP.
It is completely relevant. It's relevant to the comparison of GT and Forza. And it's relevant when comparing GT games to other GT games.

Just as people use it as an excuse for GT's technical shortcomings, it is also a beacon of what is right with GT. You can't get a solid 60fps experience on GT6. You just can't. It's way too uncommon. But even on Xbox One, why hasn't Forza 5 done day/night or weather?

See what I'm saying?

Last gen. GT couldn't hit a solid 60fps.
Forza couldn't do day/night or weather.

This gen? PD didn't release a game, for whatever reason. They decided not to. Maybe they didn't want to release an unfinished PS4 game? Maybe the code wasn't ready for PS4. Maybe they wanted more sales of GT6 so they can have more money go toward the Ayrton Senna Institute? Who knows. Regardless, PD is a no show so far.

But also Turn 10, this gen is missing features that once were technical limitations. Maybe they didn't want to release unfinished weather code? Idk.

But you CAN'T ignore hardware, because you're right, these games DON'T exist in a vacuum.

And for the record, regarding physics engine design. The faults of GT, I believe, are mostly design related, not power related. BUT, it is a fact that large physics calculations run on CPU's. When I say CPU's, I mean general processors, not highly customized stream processors. The Cell took a lot of graphical load off of the PS3's GPU, because it was better with floating point calculations. Which can also explain the FPS drops and struggles of GT5 and 6. FPS is mainly dependent on CPU, which is charge of draw calls for the GPU.

EDIT: TL;DR: All variables matter when it comes to comparisons.
 
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last gen game with new gen game? oh ok lol.
Games will always be compared, despite their said hardware or their release date. Hardware can be a factor, but it can't be used as an excuse for everything. PD couldn't hit stable 60fps, because they used an higher resolution as many games for ps3 and their sounds aren't bad, because the hardware was to weak in my opinion. As for the physics, i still think both games can be compared to some extend, because physics rely more on the developers than hardware in my opinion.

Edit:
@ phosphor112
Didn't saw that you wrote an post before i edited mine :(
Thanks for the insight.
 
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Games will always be compared, despite their release date or the hardware they are running on. Some shortcomings are because of the hardware, but some aren't. The best developers try to do find the best balance between gameplay and graphics on said hardware. They could have used 720p and make the graphics slightly worse to achieve 60fps in my opinion.
Resolution doesn't make much difference on frame rates. Fill-rate and actual rendering of all the different buffers is mostly GPU dependent. Yes, a CPU is in charge of vertices. And reducing resolution would reduce the number of vertices to be drawn but draw calls (a schedule of things to be rendered) takes the most CPU time per frame, by far.

But, there are some things they could have copied from Turn 10. Example is that they could have made the mirrors run at 30fps. That would reduce CPU time. Not sure how much, considering they are often low poly and low detail. But idk.

Oh, and FYI. You can force render the game to 720p. It's one of the few games that actually changes resolution depending on the output set on your console. GT6 runs at 1440x1080p in 1080p mode (GT5 @ 1280x1080), and 1280x720. Running in 720p mode runs, maybe 5 or 10 fps higher, at most.

You can test it yourself.

Games will always be compared, despite their said hardware or their release date. Hardware can be a factor, but it can't be used as an excuse for everything. PD couldn't hit 60fps, because they used an higher resolution as many games for ps3 and their sounds aren't bad, because the hardware was to weak in my opinion. As for the physics, i still think both games can be compared to some extend, because physics rely more on the developers than hardware in my opinion.
Edit:
@ phosphor112
Thanks for the insight.
No problem. There is one thing I love more than game development, and it's game technology. =P

General rule of thumb, and this is extremely simplified, but:
Things that eat up GPU time:
Resolution
Shaders
Post-processing

Things that eat up CPU time:
Physics
AI
Sound
FPS
Vertices/Culling(polygons)

Things that eat up memory bandwidth (speed):
Post processing
Alpha textures (smoke/particles)
Shaders
Multisampling anti-aliasing (way to remove jaggies)
Real time lighting
Frame buffers (images that composite the final image)

There is a lot more, but.. I'll keep this "simple."
 
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While we're comparing I recently was given Autosport I think GT6 Bathurst is heaps clearer and smoother. Better on all levels except AI, where they love to block hardball on AutoSP.
 
But you CAN'T ignore hardware
Pointing out that GT runs on lesser hardware is not ignoring hardware, it's the opposite. Everything is being taken into account. GT6 is inferior to Forza 5 in some aspects and some of that is down to hardware. Why/how would you even ignore the hardware difference?




EDIT: TL;DR: All variables matter when it comes to comparisons.
If you're saying that then I don't understand what it is you don't agree with.
 

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