(Quivers) - Darn well here goes...
So, I've been AWOL for almost 18 months not having posted in any forums pretty much due to life changing personal issues. Seen this thread and thought would add something as I see people stating some stuff that well, my own journey/opinion differs.
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Anyways, hello again.
I've found in enjoying the best tactile is having increased control of the units being used, regardless of the source you are using be it music/games/movies or Simvibe. It is very much also a trial and error process but end results can be worth it...
Some personal findings over the years regards different tactile amps and configurations.
Hope its some help guys, though it's just on personal experience/opinion not to be read as science fact. Your own findings, preference and opinions might differ.
Long (multi edit) post here but offering to help whoever finds it useful...
Shall we delve deeper?
Mr Latte
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1 WAY / 2 WAY / 3 WAY
First a point to remember, consider a tactile unit for a moment like a speaker. A speaker with a single driver, should it be expected to produce low end bass, good midrange detail and treble? How do you think it would manage in maintaining composure and detail?
How would it compare to a speaker with dedicated subwoofer, midrange driver and tweeter for individual roles, increased detailing and improved performance?
This is a common problem because "Bass Shakers / Tactile Units" also have their limits yet people want a single individual unit to produce detailed vibrations of multiple effects.
Effects that are operating across a varying frequency range and also offer a good deal of bass sensation.
If you apply a similar thought process in your build. Using tactile with controlled frequency ranges / set roles. It can be possible to have a more enhanced immersion. This way they are less prone to being overwhelmed with too much "audio / effects" happening at once which can get lost / muddled in the process.
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TYPE OF TACTILE DEVICE
Of course some units perform better than others in key areas, some are based on voice coil technology. These are always on, they operate from only small wattage increasing in strength as it increases. They also produce great timing in effects, require less power but are limited in producing the "smack" in low end effects that "moving piston" units produce.
These "voice coil types" would be your common £50/$50 priced shaker. The Aura Pro and it's many copies like KWoon using what sees similar design. Dayton puck units also are similar as well but these are very limited in the "tactile range" they can operate in and mainly for budget limited beginners. In general "voice coil types" produce more audible sound when operating compared to Buttkickers (more on this later).
Buttkicker's shakers have a minimum of 50 Watts/power required before they even operate, this can create a bit of an issue with direct seat installations. Their biggest model requires around 400 watts before it really gets going. I personally would class them as very good performers, robust and well priced. They do for me though work better for sheer "THUMP" but with a moving piston they offer a slightly slower response and less detail and unlike "voice coil" types of tactile less control in low volume/wattage scenarios.
I would say that personally for me Clark Tactile offer more detail in effects, they respond quicker too, have better timing and require much less wattage than the Kickers. They also generate more of an audible sound which is ideal for "Chassis Directional Positioning" but for some this may be a disadvantage, although their are ways to control this.
The physical disc size of Clark units are identical across their whole range, they can be easier to mount in certain places. So here they are different when compared with Buttkickers and may be a factor in your own installation decisions. The power of the magnet that drives Clark units from a $100 T209 to the $549 T429 is substantially stronger. I'd estimate at least 4-5 times stronger in actual magnetisim between them and producing noticeable performance differences.
Few people will want to spend the money on multiple T429 but the Silver/Gold models offer a mix of price/performance gains to suit your budget and worth consideration to the Buttkicker models
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ROLES & CONFIGURATION PLANNING
Buttkicker like the most common units "Gamer/Mini LFE" produce a decent amount of tactile thump. The "Advance" or "Pearl" units are a midway in price/performance offering more control and depth in effects.
I cannot stress this enough, the low end tactile sensation from their line topping LFE (not mini) running within @700 watts - 1000 watts going up-to its 1500 watts of power range creates a sense of shudder/realism in tactile that no other unit can.
Do some people tend to look at wattage and assume power/performance is a measure to use in comparing? Using this mindset is flawed because multiple less powerful small units do not equate to the power/performance or indeed tactile shudder/presence of a much higher rated model.
Engine Example:
With "Buttkickers LFE" even a drowning idle engine becomes a deep, vast and spacious immersion that the smaller units come nowhere as close to producing. Slowly ramp up the revs and hang in around 3-4K and you will get a sensation that feels really awesome.
Speaking from experience the smaller "Mini LFE" units or even Clark Tactile $549 unit cannot produce the same sense of depth/immersion. They do great with general effects but creating the true deepest and realistc effects needs such power and wattage only the Big LFE can produce.
It's hard to describe but kinda like comparing warming your hands under a tap to sitting in a warm bath.
If you are semi serious in anyway incorporating a Buttkicker LFE is a must and using it in the role of "Subwoofer" by this I mean allocating it the lowest end effects in Simvibe or with "Game Audio" as a tweeked .1 LFE Channel. Although it additionally works well from a tuned/restricted Stereo L/R source.
Brillant Performance totally unmatched in frequencies below and in 20Hz - 40Hz range.
FACTORS & ISSUES
The other major issues, oh gees, well placement, the cockpit used, wood/metal, isolating effects within the mounting platform, amplifiers, tactile used. So many variables are factors and it very much is a hobbyist area.
The most difficult is maintaining the rumble/performance within the chassis and not travelling through your home if set on wooden floor etc. Additionally achieving multiple units to work/interact together is a difficult one.
Unfortunately their isn't a cockpit on the market designed with multi-channel tactile performance in mind. So modification or a d.i.y build if carefully planned can allow better incorporation of separation between units and their roles.
An example is maximising directional effects like "Simvibe Chassis" or Stereo/Surround in "Game Audio" Obtaining this directionality within the seat and foot platforms will greatly enhance immersion.
The difficulty is maintaining each units individuality in it's effects and avoiding tactile crosstalk of multiple units blending into one mass of vibration. This is why "Tactile Control" is such an important factor...
LESS CAN BE MORE
Just a suggestion to consider, perhaps similar to the comparison of buying a hi-quality stereo amplifier with good speakers compared to buying a cheap all in one 5.1 surround system and installing it into what really is a confined area or too small of a room.
Quality of tactile and amplification used in some cases may be better money spent than going with multiple cheaper units installed on a chassis/platform.
Building or improving on a good basis is always possible but its harder to improve on a basis that is already limited in quality/performance.
*OP 7x Buttkicker on a Obutto?
This seems extreme, it's rather small frame of a cockpit to handle so many different vibrations. Quantity Vs Quality of units used may be a worthwhile consideration here.
BASIC CONTROL
A crossover offers very little in terms of actual control, often found on subwoofer/plate amps...
Simply this allows just reducing the Hz frequency range going to the tactile unit.
Most people probably use below 100Hz but something in the region of 80-90Hz is common.
At this range or above produces very little in felt effects.
However a Dayton puck being much smaller and more sensitive if anything would work better in this range, than larger tactile units. Perhaps good for close proximity, low wattage.
FREQUENCY RANGE IMPORTANCE
The wider/larger amount of range used the more the tactile has to operate/move.
Also some frequencies typically @ 40Hz - 60Hz need toned down to others as they are more sensitive to amplification, well just feel real bad out of control with high power/volumes.
This is problematic because frequencies from various Simvibe effects or game audio can overwhelm a tactile unit. Unfortunately Simvibe's while offering loads of options and tweaking makes such rather tedious with sliders that do not indicate typical audio information generated by its processing of gamedata.
When multiple effects or certain effects take charge when playing you lose detail in vibrations from effects that are overpowered by the stronger effects. Bottoming or Piston Pang is also more likely in these instances.
The drawback is that using a very limited crossover/range ensures you will miss some detail or effects while perhaps gaining more composure. Often it is a compromise.
Users want both, they want low end WHACK but also DETAIL in effects and using HIGH Wattage for increased perception but also the distance the tactile is felt throughout their cockpit/seat etc.
A crossover simply does not provide enough control or anywhere close to what is possible.
Low end effects are felt in the 20Hz to 35Hz deep engine/bangs/thumbs
Medium effects are felt in the 35Hz - 60Hz annoying if too high volume/tweaking needed here
High effects are felt in the 60Hz -85Hz often in kerbs and higher engine revs
EQUALISER
Their are many EQs available and big differences in the amount of control frequencies they offer.
Remember over 100Hz is of little use regards felt/effects.
Few EQ's offer control below 63Hz although some Pro Audio start from 20Hz (Behringer FBQ 3102 amongst the best).
Some amps have EQ built in but these are typically very limited in the amount of sliders or the +/- they provide.
Most EQ will also offer a "Crossover Feature" but the advantage with EQ is being able to control to a degree the strength of the effects at set frequencies.
Disadvantage with EQ is that it adds more complication, more cost and only control of the frequencies it has.
PARAMETRIC EQUALISER = BOSS
This is the best option for subwoofer or tactile control even if a user is running Simvibe because it can give simple but very effective real-time hardware adjustments.
Such units typically allow:
1) Individual Hz selection select exactly to a single Hz what you want to control
2) Added control filters/timing of effects
3) Testing benefits, limiting a working range to exact frequencies
4) Wattage limiter to prevent overload
5) User pre-sets for different roles/cars
I have tried all of the above options over time and with many different Buttkicker/Tactile devices, it became a personal interest is all. With Parametric you can fine tune to suit individual cars/effects or generate different / noticeable tactile signatures with units you have installed . For me ideal for 4 Chassis below a seat for improved directionality instead of a single mass vibration.
SPECTRUM ANALYSER / MONITORING
For those inclined to do so it is possible to monitor the output from say "Simvibe" or "Game Audio". I use a temp solution at the moment via a Technics 1990s equaliser to visually see what is happening. Simple but effective monitoring solution.
Useful Bargin
Many PC software options also available
In doing this you can get a visual representation in actual frequencies (Hz) how and what is being used in real-time. This then lets a user see how certain effects/audio compare to others in dynamic range/signal strength. Ideal for Simvibe's mysterious sliders...
So what?
It is then possible with "Parametric EQ" to go to exactly the individual Hz of the required effects you want to control/modify and adjust it to personal pref. Engine, Chassis, Bumps, Gears...
Some ideas:
You want to reduce 63Hz - 65Hz and increase 67Hz- 70Hz, for some reason well no problems. Fancy discovering what your tactile is doing regards set ranges, well now you can...
Just how much is a unit shaking over 80Hz? What low pass / high pass filtering do you need?
What does my shaker do with any given effects ONLY between 20Hz - 40Hz or 40hz - 60Hz or 60Hz - 80Hz, you with me?
You want to give a tactile unit a set role, now it's easy to fine tune it, perhaps you want a duplicate channel of an effect but with different response/signature with it split over two devices for better performance. Say 1 engine effect tactile unit on a seat and another on pedals with their own settings?
These things are all possible examples possible if desired via Parametric/EQ amplifers.
For me this is one area Simvibe missed on, in giving the user more info/understanding on what the sliders are doing and being able to duplicate channels with individual/split settings used on separate tactile installed on a cockpit. This is not running down Simvibe but highlighting options available and possible with well chosen hardware too.
BUTTKICKER ISSUE Hz SPIKES
Regards the Mini LFE / Gamer Units.
They tend to have a sensitive spike in around 35-40Hz, increased volume with effects/audio using these frequencies are prone to causing the piston pang. Reducing this range will help and running within a 20Hz - 90Hz range.
MY FAVE / RECOMMENDED AMPS
BEHRINGER iNUKE DSP
I personally have found the "Behringer Inuke DSP Series" to be the best amplifiers for "Tactile Immersion"
Offering superb balance of cost - power with all the benefits of "Parametric EQ".
Looks daunting at first but i'snt hard to use at all.
Giving much more control than conventional amps, like the power limit, presets, USB connection to PC / Laptop. Even control via touch-screen monitor if desired with their "Remote Connect Software"
Unfortunately software only supports 1 amp at a time but presets are easily loaded from the front panel. Also theirs no android/apple apps available although video streaming software to tablets works if a little awkward/laggy (on my Samsung Tab S).
CROWN XTI
I would also recommend Crown XTi series (01 or new 02 range) they too offer "Parametric EQ" but prices are rather higher, particularly in UK/Europe. They do however have a major advantage in allowing multiple amps to be connected and controlled via "Band manager 2" software but at the cost of less features to the Behringer Remote Connect. Also they have a simple but useful app for ipad/iphone not available for Behringer inuke DSP amps.
Some people in USA/Canada might be able to get decent bargins on the older XTi 01 series and Crown are very reputable amps with bags of power.
