I'm thinking about standard cars in GT7

  • Thread starter Illogical
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I think you guys have selective memories, that recall whatever suits your arguments against me.

Go back in my posting history and Read. My. Posts. NOT read into them what you want. Let me say what I mean to. There can be a huge diff between saying I can have a lot of fun with the bots, and saying the bots are PAAARRRFECT.

There is quite a distinction between saying I like having those Standard cars to race and enjoy, and yes even shoot pics of, and saying that the Standard cars are PAAARRRFECT.

There's a good deal of nuance between saying that I'm not too fussed about the car sounds, especially when many of the street cars sound about right as do many race cars, and saying all the cars sound PAAARRRFECT.

And you guys are really hung up on this. I waste a LOT of time here re-explaining posts, clarifying, saying what I actually did say...

But what the hell. It's not politically correct to defend Gran Turismo or Polyphony or Kaz. What was it you said, Mr Beard, "lumping everyone together"? Naaaaw, you guys would never do that. ;)
I guess @CSLACR must have edited his post just to make you look silly and taken out all the parts where you said stuff you like is PAAARRRFECT because I don't see that here:

It's because you just seem to happen to "like" all of the things the general population consider "the worst". As long as you are really enjoying what most people consider the bottom of the barrel, they're going to respond this way.

Nope, surely he edited it out then. Do you have the original version, I'd love to see how that devious little CSL tricked you?
 
Johnny, look. Maybe you like just being a smart alec and forcing points. I think clarifying that "liking" something is a little different with being "okay" with something, or being "tolerant" of something, or even "enjoying something in spite of itself" makes sense. But, silly me, maybe doing that is STOOPID.

Now, if this makes zero sense to you, I think this is about done. Got better things to do than play silly board politics with you lot.
 
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Johnny, look. Maybe you like just being a smart alec and forcing points. I think clarifying that "liking" something is a little different with being "okay" with something, or being "tolerant" of something, or even "enjoying something in spite of itself" makes sense. But, silly me, maybe doing that is STOOPID.

Now, if this makes zero sense to you, I think this is about done. Got better things to do than play silly board politics with you lot.
You quoted his post and then went on a hysterical rant, capitalizing words to make sure we paid close attention to them, and none of it had anything to do with that he said. If you didn't intend for someone to see that disconnect, you shouldn't have quote CSL to begin with.
 
You know, it's interesting how one can never have time to actually defend or prove concepts, but have all the time in the world to constantly repeat them stone faced whenever someone says something objectionable; no matter the context. One would think that doing the former would free up a lot of the time spent doing the latter, to boot.



Though I never understood Zer0 logic anyway.
Heh. What delicious irony.
I still can't get over how "the attention to detail has steadily decreased since the first game" can be interpreted as "the game has done almost nothing but go downhill since GT1"
 
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Read through *some* of the thread, but for me, I would rather they cut out the standard cars, even if that only leaves us with 400-500 in the game. For me, I've ALWAYS found the extra cars to be useless. I don't need 10 RX-7's, or 7 Miata's, or 23 GT-R's.

While I expect some stellar graphics for the PS4 version of Gran Turismo, I also expect the series to bring new features and major improvements. If I don't see that, I'll be quite disappointed.
 
I was thinking about the JGTC standard cars. Obviously they make a great group of cars that can be used together in a series. Polyphony do not have limitless capacity. Would people rather the JGTC cars were fully premiumised or should the effort be put into modelling a different real world group of cars that can be used together? Maybe race cars more modern or even older series. Obviously we would all like to see both the JGTC standards get premium upgrades AND get new racing cars for example but what should the priority be for PD? New series of cars or reboot the old ones?

For me I think cars/series new to GT are a more attractive and bigger draw so they should get the focus in the short term. Bring the old standards in further down the line.

And

@Tenacious D it is my opinion that you are indeed lumping everyone together when you talk about "you guys" in terms of everyone who disagrees with something you say. Then you proceed to go off at tangents and talk in riddles that have nothing to do with either the thread or the post you are replying to. Sometimes it appears you'll start defending / deflecting before people even bring things up. Surely you can see that?

If you were to communicate better you might have less issues with explaining yourself ad infinitum.

Have you uploaded those replays for Samus yet. Or are you simply not going to bother?
 
I was thinking about the JGTC standard cars. Obviously they make a great group of cars that can be used together in a series. Polyphony do not have limitless capacity. Would people rather the JGTC cars were fully premiumised or should the effort be put into modelling a different real world group of cars that can be used together? Maybe race cars more modern or even older series. Obviously we would all like to see both the JGTC standards get premium upgrades AND get new racing cars for example but what should the priority be for PD? New series of cars or reboot the old ones?

Dump them. Bring the new Super GT cars instead.
 
You quoted his post and then went on a hysterical rant
Excuse me for saying not one intelligent thing in this thread, and going off on wild flights of fancy in an alternate universe in which no one criticizes GT6 because it's paaarfect.
 
Well, all you lovely people. My autocrossing relative steered me to Dropbox, which I've only heard of in passing because I'm not a big file sharer. But, even though to my vexation it requires an app which must be run as an Admin - and which has NEVER asked for my Admin pswd before... which is why I 🤬 hate Windoze with a passion. Breath...

So anyhow, here are my replays, hopefully. All in their proper folders and whatnot. If not whatnot, let me know and I'll see if I can sort things out. And if you're lucky, you'll se me tooting around a track in my VWs against race cars and getting flogged. Humor, narf. ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cdq3tc87ejpv5xe/Replay-1.zip

Erm... and I don't have Google Fiber, so it's still uploading as of 10pm CST. It's 500-plus MB...
 
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Speaking of GT7, when are the mods going to add a dedicated Forum Thread for it? We all know PD is currently working on it for the PS4, so quit stalling and get 'er done.
 
Speaking of GT7, when are the mods going to add a dedicated Forum Thread for it? We all know PD is currently working on it for the PS4, so quit stalling and get 'er done.

What would we talk about?

They haven't announced it and we have no information, other than it'll be on PS4 and a rough time for a possible release, which could change at any moment.
 
What would we talk about?

They haven't announced it and we have no information, other than it'll be on PS4 and a rough time for a possible release, which could change at any moment.

This thread, for instance. It has nothing to do with GT6 so why not put it in a GT7 thread, or a "Gran Turismo in general" thread?

On topic: I wouldn't mind standard cars in GT7. Some of them aren't very pretty to look at, but it's hardly noticable in a race situation. In my book the diversity value they add is greater than the prettiness value they subtract.

Of course, it depends on what the car list would look like in GT7. The more premium cars that are being made, the less of a diversity value the standards adds so at some point the prettiness value is going to be greater than the diversity value and at that point I wouldn't mind if they retired to that great car parking lot in heaven.
 
Well, all you lovely people. My autocrossing relative steered me to Dropbox, which I've only heard of in passing because I'm not a big file sharer. But, even though to my vexation it requires an app which must be run as an Admin - and which has NEVER asked for my Admin pswd before... which is why I 🤬 hate Windoze with a passion. Breath...

So anyhow, here are my replays, hopefully. All in their proper folders and whatnot. If not whatnot, let me know and I'll see if I can sort things out. And if you're lucky, you'll se me tooting around a track in my VWs against race cars and getting flogged. Humor, narf. ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cdq3tc87ejpv5xe/Replay-1.zip

Erm... and I don't have Google Fiber, so it's still uploading as of 10pm CST. It's 500-plus MB...

Downloading them now and will watch some later but given your description I think I already know what I'm going to see.
 
The standars quality in a PS4 game? No thanks! Still, I would miss a lot of the cars mentioned in this thread if PD decide to drop the standards. As a solution, I would be ok if PD decide to follow the Nissan GT-r proto '05 concept for converting standards. The car has a quasi-premium body but no interior. Just a tought.
 
Personally, I don't think this argument will ever end. What I have been seeing is people wanting the standard cars that they want premiumized in GT7, and the rest cut. However not everyone has the same preferences. There is also a second argument to if they should cut them all, or not. I would not like to start another argument, but my personal opinion is that if one car is premium that is known to rival or race together with another, they should both be premium. (Toyota 88c-v w/ Sauber Merc C9)
 
The car has a quasi-premium body. Just a tought.

It is a premium car, not "quasi premium". The Proto never had a finished interior since it was an engineless mockup in reality. The AMG Vision GT has no interior either, that doesn't make it "quasi-premium".
 
All the race cars need to be Premiumized. Along with that, they need to all have at least two alternate liveries, even if PD created ones, as well as all having a Base Model, which hopefully will work with a Livery Editor. I'm adamant that PD give us enough cars and appropriate tracks for racing series in several real world and fantasy leagues, such as DTM, FIA GT, ALMS, WTCC, WRC etc.

And then, what of the street cars? Cut 'em? Just imagine the Supra MkIV old Corvettes, Mustangs, BMWs, Saleen and the like being removed. Oh, how the people would cry. Given the choice between nothing and a Sub-Prem, I wonder what the response would be.

given your description I think I already know what I'm going to see.
You pre judge you. ;)

Now keep in mind that I race the bots "properly," in that I don't bash my way past them and usually back off if I can't make a pass without doing so. I will take a crazy chance on occasion and push past one if it's being a slug. I think I tossed in a win near the top or bottom too, but the bot was trying so hard to catch me that if it's included, that's why.

Anyhow, one more peek at the boards and then it's off to race the bots some more. Tally ho!
 
My pre-judging was in regards to you saying you raced VWs against race cars and lost, and how that relates to "The AI always lets you win" point you vehemently deny, despite me telling you that whilst that does happen of course there is a limit to that. But yeah, I'll watch them tonight and see how the supposed racing itself is.
 
Well, all you lovely people. My autocrossing relative steered me to Dropbox, which I've only heard of in passing because I'm not a big file sharer. But, even though to my vexation it requires an app which must be run as an Admin - and which has NEVER asked for my Admin pswd before... which is why I 🤬 hate Windoze with a passion. Breath...

So anyhow, here are my replays, hopefully. All in their proper folders and whatnot. If not whatnot, let me know and I'll see if I can sort things out. And if you're lucky, you'll se me tooting around a track in my VWs against race cars and getting flogged. Humor, narf. ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cdq3tc87ejpv5xe/Replay-1.zip

Erm... and I don't have Google Fiber, so it's still uploading as of 10pm CST. It's 500-plus MB...
I'll wait to see if anyone else can download these. I know when I send files to WRS they are much, much smaller. Did you compress them before you sent them? Not really a tech guy so I can't say if this makes any difference or not to the replayability of the files.
 
I'll wait to see if anyone else can download these. I know when I send files to WRS they are much, much smaller. Did you compress them before you sent them? Not really a tech guy so I can't say if this makes any difference or not to the replayability of the files.

Files are fine (Well, correct format but I've not watched them yet), he's just included a hell of a lot of them.
 
I think you guys have selective memories, that recall whatever suits your arguments against me.

Go back in my posting history and Read. My. Posts. NOT read into them what you want. Let me say what I mean to. There can be a huge diff between saying I can have a lot of fun with the bots, and saying the bots are PAAARRRFECT.

There is quite a distinction between saying I like having those Standard cars to race and enjoy, and yes even shoot pics of, and saying that the Standard cars are PAAARRRFECT.

There's a good deal of nuance between saying that I'm not too fussed about the car sounds, especially when many of the street cars sound about right as do many race cars, and saying all the cars sound PAAARRRFECT.

And you guys are really hung up on this. I waste a LOT of time here re-explaining posts, clarifying, saying what I actually did say...

But what the hell. It's not politically correct to defend Gran Turismo or Polyphony or Kaz. What was it you said, Mr Beard, "lumping everyone together"? Naaaaw, you guys would never do that. ;)
This response couldn't be much less intelligent could it?
What the hell are you on about?
 
Files are fine (Well, correct format but I've not watched them yet), he's just included a hell of a lot of them.
Once you've downloaded and unzipped them and put them on a USB, where do you go on the XMB to drop the files into the game? Or can GT extract them in-game? I've never done this before (the rest of the world just uses Youtube:lol:)
 
Once you've downloaded and unzipped them and put them on a USB, where do you go on the XMB to drop the files into the game? Or can GT extract them in-game? I've never done this before (the rest of the world just uses Youtube:lol:)

On a USB stick you need to make a PS3 folder, a SAVEDATA folder inside that and then all the BCJSXXXXX folders in the ZIP file go inside that. That's all I've done so far, from there I THINK you can just use the in game importing thing, otherwise you just copy them from the stick into the PS3 Save Data folder on the XMB.
 
On a USB stick you need to make a PS3 folder, a SAVEDATA folder inside that and then all the BCJSXXXXX folders in the ZIP file go inside that. That's all I've done so far, from there I THINK you can just use the in game importing thing, otherwise you just copy them from the stick into the PS3 Save Data folder on the XMB.
Okay that worked. I left the USB in the PS3 and was able to download it from the USB into the Replay Gallery. I watched one race, 430 Scuderia at Motegi against a field of race cars. Putting aside the fact that @Tenacious D cakewalked through most of the field of full fledged race cars on the same tires in a street car by both out cornering and out accelerating them, here's what stood out to me.

Lap 2

AI Leader2 - 2:01
TenD - 2:04

So we know the AI can run at around 2:00 pace but all of a sudden on lap 3 he's forgotten when to brake, can't find an apex and is uncertain when to hit the throttle. So...

Lap 3

AI Leader - 2:11 (10 seconds slower than lap 2)
TenD - 2:03

By now TenD is up through most of the field but still not in first place yet...so...

Lap 4

AI Leader - 2:11 (again 10 seconds slower than lap 2)
TenD - 2:05.6

By now TenD has caught the leader and a battle ensues and all of a sudden the leader can find an apex and remembers how the throttle and brakes work so...

Lap 5

AI Leader - 2:05
TenD - 2:04

I'm sure it's debatable, but the AI was behind TenD exiting the last corner and appear to lift briefly before pulling out to make a failed pass attempt at the line.

Make of it what you will, to me that's not racing. The leader simply slowed his pace by 20 seconds in the middle of the race to let the player catch up and then when he caught up he put up a half-hearted battle for the lead. I'm sure many GT players can suspend reality and rational thought and pretend they actually had a race and that's great for them. Only speaking for myself, but once I realize what the AI is doing and the race isn't "real", it's game over for me.
 
Ok, I've also analysed one race I selected at random from the lot. It was the Dream Car Championship Race 1, at Motegi. The lead car was in a Jaguar XJR-9 Race Car, @Tenacious D was in a Lamborghini Diablo GT-1. So first of all let's look at the stats, the facts on those cars.

Jaguar XJR-9 - 749BHP, 894KG, 680PP
Diablo GT1 - 591BHP, 1200KG, 593PP

So right away we can see there is a huge performance gulf. TenD is giving away over 150bhp in power and is much heavier. So I look at the replay. First of all one further fact, looking at the data at the first checkpoint TenD is 14.5 seconds behind the Jaguar.

- So lap one and the main thing I notice is how cautiously TenD is driving, he's very smooth and not aggressive in his driving style. Little oversteer etc. Despite this he blows by the first AI cars, flying around the outside of many with ease and ends lap 1 from 14th to 8th, a 1.53.8.

- Lap two is more of the same, easy passes with no effort despite fairly cautious driving. 1.51, he's up to 5th.

- By the end of lap three he's made two more fairly simple passes and ends it in 3rd, a 1.53.7.

- On lap four he's again, very cautious with the throttle. As he was going around the outside of a Nissan I believe he backed off and hit the brakes when putting his foot down would have got him past sooner. Despite this he ends the lap in 2nd on a 1.52.9.

- Final lap is spent attacking the lead Jaguar, he loses distance on the straight but is able to easily outbrake into the corners to make a pass into the lead, at turn 11, the 90 degree right hander. He takes the last few corners in a normal manner but doesn't really defend and coming out of the last corner pretty slowly. The Jaguar uses it's superior power to pip him on the line by a tenth or so, a final lap time of 1.51.1.

Race Summary

TenD finished second because of two main reasons, his somewhat timid, cautious driving style and the fact the AI was significantly faster on the straights, because of the higher power.

My attempt

- Out of curiosity following this I decided to try the race myself. I hadn't played the game at all for weeks and I didn't own the Lambo, so I went and bought it. Did nothing to it, went in stock and blind. I drove with a DS3, all aids off except ABS1. I don't know how you drove. I made sure the Jag was in first but obviously the entire field wasn't identical. First lap was a struggle getting used to the car and track, ended with a 1.55.1 in 9th, so a little behind TenD at this point.

- Second lap got better into the flow, a 1.50.9 and I'm in 5th, same as TenD (but faster lap) and same experience, flying past the AI with no trouble, usually around the outside.

- Third lap is a 1.51.9 and I'm up to third, again matching TenD in position but faster lap.

- Fourth lap is a 1.51.5 and I'm 1st on the home straight but passed by the Mercedes (Which passes the Jaguar) in a very similar manner to TenD, outpowered, and just end the lap in 2nd.

- I very easily pass the Merc in turn 1 to take the lead and spend the rest of the lap defending fairly (IMO). I take a defensive line on the straight where he catches up but fly away in the corners. I end the final lap with a 1.50.1 and finish 1st, a few tenths ahead of the Merc. Final race time 9.19.

Of course it would only be fair to share my replay file, so here you go - https://mega.co.nz/#!hUEyFbYY!SlK9YY5qBAxadwQWZh9859kNqyoBveI1-5HNpRrh8xI

I personally believe I drove fairly, there were a couple of bumps but nothing over the line IMO. If you have different thoughts on my race I'd be happy to hear them.

Final thoughts

So yes, I agree with you on one aspect TenD, the AI do not always let you win. Absolutely they wanted to win those races.

However I personally would not call that real racing and I do not find it fun. The only reason it was remotely close is because of the power advantage the AI had over us. They were painfully slow in the corners making any overtaking simple, with no challenge. I had to defend slightly on the final lap but the AI braked so early and were so slow in the corners it was no real challenge to keep the win, and I didn't find the experience particularly fun. I blasted past the AI with relative ease driving a new car for the first time in months and so did you. As I say you only lost because the Jaguar had so much more power and outdid you on the final straight, plus I personally thought your driving was a little timid. That isn't a slight on you before you think it is, I accept we're all at a different skill level and all drive differently. I'm certainly nowhere near the best drivers, and you're not awfully slow.

I did actually find that analysis and comparison very interesting though, truly, it does show how different people play the game and how their skill greatly affects the outcome when there is no difficulty settings in game. I may look at some others later.

EDIT: I realise I forgot to note the AI laptimes on my analysis. I will do that now and add it later.
 
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