Mad FinnTuners Co. - Finished 081213 - The Final Countdown, 4, 3, 2, 1, OUT!

Discussion in 'GT5 Tuning Forum' started by Greycap, Dec 8, 2010.

  1. krioto

    London, UK

    Lotus Elise Sport 220 '04

    I tested this little ripper on London, Rome, Madrid and 24Hr Nurburgring.

    It handles superbly - very quick into and out of corners - so easy to manoeuvre on both tight turns as well as long drawn out high speed sweepers.

    Don't be afraid to use the entire 6 gears as well - I can have an aversion to 1st gear, but you need it in the Lotus - it maybe the lack of power overall, but I sometimes found low-speed 2nd to be a bit sluggish, and takes some time to wind out into 3rd, but downshifting into 1st alleviates that, and puts the spring back into corner exit.

    It eats up the city circuits with the sharp 90 degree turns, and with late braking you can slide 4 wheels around a bend whilst remaining in control - very enjoyable. London and London Reverse in particular are fantastic courses to put this car through its paces, and you really see the car at its best.

    Long straights can be a bit of a bane, but you get what you pay for - insane cornering ability, with a bit of a loss at the top-end speeds, but you'll be having too much fun in the bends to notice mostly.

    At the ring this car chews up the track - I ran 5 laps of the course last night, and on the GP circuit section I was smiling for quite a while.

    :) = me driving the Elise
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2012
  2. kingmoshoeshoe2

    Premium
    Germany

    OK, some more reviews, while I have the time ;) Tried out three more cars, of which one will not get to the review stage any time soon (that being the Lancia Stratos, which I need to get around GVS in one piece for at least one lap before saying anything more informed than the fact that it looks lovely and that oversteer is a bit of a feature) ;)

    So let's start with the Mitshubishi Evo '05 Shiden. Once the RM and all the bits are slapped on, you have a car looking very much like a circuit racer, and not much like a rally wannabe. This certainly spells potential and the time you posted looked quite tasty, too. One thing is also clear after the start - this car will be making quite some time up on the straights (rapid acceleration) and braking is unlikely to make you sweat (rock solid, even into corners).

    And here comes 'however'. If you were thinking of a heroic corner carver, AYC and all, you will likely be surprised to say the least. The car seems to be extremely stable and anything short of a significant change of pace is unlikely to change the car's line (as I drive it, at least). This means you can apply full throttle even out of slow corners without fear of the rear, or at any other point, without the rear, or the front budging much. At the same time the front grip, in spite of the RM setup and front downforce remains the car's weak point. It never disintegrates into plodding understeer but the car will simply gather pace and at the same time slowly edge out towards the wall / gravel, if you apply throttle too early. Given how stable it is, this usually means a massive braking maneuvre to change things. Still it is not slow but some corners are simply frustrating in it - like the top of hill chicane at GVS. At other tracks some of your cars with less PP are solidly faster in my hands (the Audi RS8 is certainly faster for me at TM).

    At the same time I know that the car will never bite, never really ask that much from its driver, so it is certainly a solid choice for longer distance events, or for drivers who get sweaty palms, when the car has a mobile rear. :tup:

    The final comparison was with its arch nemesis, the 'Hayabusa'. The cars could not be more different - where the Mitsubishi will be clean lines and neutrality, the Hayabusa is pivoting around you if you so much as look in the general direction of the throttle or brakes (takes some using to, if switching directly from one to the other), and you will slide all over the place - but in a nicely controlled way. Not sure if a wheel and pedal combo may change the picture somehow, here. I found the Hayabusa ultimately faster (agrees with your posted times), more fun, but potentially less consistent over longer runs.
  3. kingmoshoeshoe2

    Premium
    Germany

    The other car I tried is the hyper Zonda '02. Somehow when installing the specified parts the car ended up with ca. 100bhp more than in your spec, with the appropriate increase in PP. All the gearbox settings were still possible, so not sure if the model description (of the base car) was wrong or what :)

    It's been a while since the car was published, so I do not remember its 'stablemate' but if it was the VW Nardo, this is certainly a different beast to drive. In spite of the Millenium Falcon acceleration, the car is not the worst of beasts when it comes to handling (those 950bhp behind you with no downforce could let you think otherwise).

    So how does it work? Well, the first thing to do is to make sure you do not impale the car in front, as the acceleration is really, really rabid. Braking, on the other hand is equally strong, if not quite as assured as a car with downforce, when you are trying to decelerate from 360+ kmh (say Le Mans).

    In spite of the relatively ample rubber, you do need to make sure not to enter into a 4 wheel drift - not that it would be uncontrollable (even for someone with my meagre abilities), it is just you lose too much time. In fact the only thing to watch out for, in terms of controllability, is too sudden inputs (both throttle and steering), which are likely to overwhelm the car, and consequentially me ;) Still, most slides are controllable, and if you have a trailing throttle into corners, and do not go for a pedal to the metal approach on the way out (at least until pointing more or less in the desired direction), you should be fine.

    Not a car I would be able to drive nearly as close to its final abilities as your somewhat lower powered vehicles, or indeed something like the much more benign Nardo but at the same time not something trying to kill you at every possible opportunity. Something one will be able to drive from the start, and slowly master but neither a car to ore instantly, nor one likely to be bested by too many road car opponents on faster circuits :tup:
  4. Greycap

    Premium
    Finland Finland

    kingmoshoeshoe2 - I'm inclined to believe that the S2000 needs a retune, it was made by the time v1.05 was the latest thing and the tyre physics have changed at least twice since then. But even then it might retain the same problems - no downforce at the front to provide extra grip, nor enough power to give proper throttle oversteer at speed. The S2000 in its basic (meaning no Amuse, Spoon etc.) guise is balanced and nice to drive but that's about where it ends, it's not the fastest of its class practically anywhere.

    And the Shiden, well, that's what happens when trying to turn a hopelessly understeery pig into something useful but not quite succeeding. I've never understood what went wrong with Evo VII-VIII-IX but they just don't work for me with their overwhelming stability and total lack of looseness. On the other hand it makes them great for rallying which probably would be the smart thing to do but I had to counter the Hayabusa with something and the result was known before the work even began. The GD generation Impreza is still a true Impreza but in my eyes the Evo died with the VI.

    krioto - No doubt, London is like it was created for the Elise. The setup was more or less made by the time when the best paying seasonals were those at London and Nordschleife and it can probably be seen! I must have done several dozen laps at each of them, changing the car bit by bit and gathering a lot of money and racing gear in the process. It's one of the few cars that weren't tuned by lap times alone but also by keeping an eye on the handling over the Green Hell lap. The approach seems to have worked!
  5. Leonidae@MFT

    Premium
    Finland Riverside, Ca
    PSN:GTP_Leonidae_MFT

    Chevrolet Camaro Cup Car'12

    558 bhp, 683 Nm, 1410 kg, PP 600
    Painted in Victory Red from Chevrolet

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Clickable for full size

    Parts to fit:
    Oil Change
    New Wheels, finished in Stock Black
    Racing Modification
    Sports ECU
    Sports Intake Manifold
    Racing Air Filter
    Titanium Racing Exhaust
    Sports Exhaust Manifold
    Catalytic Converter: Sports
    Fully Customizable Transmission
    Twin Plate Clutch
    Semi Racing Flywheel
    Carbon Propeller Shaft
    Fully Customizable LSD
    Fully Customizable Suspension Kit
    Sports Soft Tyres

    Overall cost:200k+

    Weight Adjustment Ballast
    Ballast Amount (kg): 200
    Ballast Position: -50

    Aerodynamics
    Downforce: 25 / 60

    Transmission

    Note: First, reset the gearbox to the default settings, then set the Max speed, and only then set the gear ratios.

    Gear Ratios
    1st: 2.699
    2nd: 1.741
    3rd: 1.235
    4th: 1.000
    5th: 0.817
    6th: 0.672
    Final Gear: 3.230

    Max speed: 440 km/h

    Fully Customizable LSD
    Initial Torque: 10
    Acceleration Sensitivity: 15
    Braking Sensitivity: 15

    Suspension
    Ride Height Adjustment (mm): -15 / -15
    Spring Rate (kgf/mm): 7.5 / 7.0
    Dampers (Extension): 10 / 10
    Dampers (Compression): 4 / 2
    Anti-Roll Bars: 7 / 7
    Camber Angle (-): 2.0 / 1.5
    Toe Angle: -0.50 / -0.40

    Brake Balance Controller
    Brake Balance: 1 / 1

    Driving Options
    ASM: Off
    TCS: 0
    ABS: OFF


    It started off as mistake. I watched a clip from youtube about Camaro Cup event being held on Alastaro, and began to ponder if it would be difficult to replicate such car in GT5. The more I thought of it, the more likely it started to look, and I began to do a research about the cars used in the event. Apparently, the real cup cars are lighter and less powerful, so I took a step further and added weight for balancing the car to nice 55/45 ratio, then tweaked the engine bit further to even up the weight gains impact on performance. Then I looked into the transmission, which apparently is a 4-speed unit. I matched the gear ratios as closely as I could, and somewhat managed to pull off a transmission that allows heavy throttle application on almost any gear. While 5th can still be used on tracks with longer straights, the 6th is pretty much overgear. Handling-wise I was pleasantly surprised, there was plenty of traction and car allows very heavy handed and rough driving style despite of plentiful torque. I also switched the ABS off, just to see if it could be done. It can, but you won't be smashing the brakes like you could with the ABS on 1, and the distances will be longer. But, as you get used to the car, it won't be a problem. Overall, Camaro Cup Car replica came to life in a splendid manner and I am rather pleased with it.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2012
  6. obsessive rules

    United Kingdom CARLISLEcumbria
    PSN:warmachine277-

    Now, back to the 4 pages of discussion.
  7. Greycap

    Premium
    Finland Finland

    Dodge Challenger SSC '12

    603+ bhp, 703+ Nm, 1325 kg, PP 600
    Painted in Light Gunmetal Metallic from Dodge

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Clickable for full size

    Parts to fit:
    Oil Change
    Stock Wheels, finished in Matte Black from Gran Turismo
    Engine Tuning Stage 1
    Sports ECU
    Sports Intake Manifold
    Racing Air Filter
    Titanium Racing Exhaust
    Sports Exhaust Manifold
    Catalytic Converter: Sports
    Fully Customizable Transmission
    Twin Plate Clutch
    Semi Racing Flywheel
    Carbon Propeller Shaft
    Fully Customizable LSD
    Fully Customizable Suspension Kit
    Sports Soft Tyres

    Overall cost: racing cars aren't cheap, you know?

    Weight Adjustment Ballast
    Ballast Amount (kg): 40
    Ballast Position: 50

    Aerodynamics
    Downforce: 15 / 35

    Transmission

    Note: First, reset the gearbox to the default settings, then set the Max speed, and only then set the gear ratios.

    Gear Ratios
    1st: 3.421
    2nd: 2.302
    3rd: 1.765
    4th: 1.415
    5th: 1.180
    6th: 1.000
    Final Gear: 3.150

    Max speed: 360 km/h

    Fully Customizable LSD
    Initial Torque: 5
    Acceleration Sensitivity: 25
    Braking Sensitivity: 5

    Suspension
    Ride Height Adjustment (mm): 0 / 0
    Spring Rate (kgf/mm): 8.5 / 7.0
    Dampers (Extension): 8 / 5
    Dampers (Compression): 4 / 6
    Anti-Roll Bars: 4 / 4
    Camber Angle (-): 1.5 / 1.5
    Toe Angle: 0.00 / 0.00

    Brake Balance Controller
    Brake Balance: 4 / 2

    Driving Options
    ASM: Off
    TCS: 0
    ABS: OFF


    Loosely based on the SCCA cars but eventually opting for slightly more liberate regulations, the Challenger Super Saloon Competition is an oddity among Dodges in that it can actually perform like a racer should. As usual power is available in high enough amounts but this time it's combined with handling qualities that manage to get the car around corners despite feeling stereotypically American. One of the most notable features is the absence of ABS but surprisingly it doesn't make that much difference and certainly can't be used as an excuse for off-track excursions unless your left foot is made of lead. As with all high powered RWD cars some common sense is required but when looking at the starting point the result could have been a lot worse.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2012
  8. Leonidae@MFT

    Premium
    Finland Riverside, Ca
    PSN:GTP_Leonidae_MFT

    *Drops a pin* :odd:
  9. crimson_menace

    Lost in thought.
    PSN:GTP_crimson

    I saw this little guy in the UCD, so I figured I'd take one for a spin, and needed a quick tune to give it some extra 'go.' Knowing you guys from a while back now, I knew you'd have a tune I was looking for.

    To no surprise, I found this one.

    Well I went ahead & bought all the parts, plugged in your numbers, & took it for a spin around my old favorite, Trial Mountain.

    The first thing I noticed were the extended gears with some nice wheelspin. This being a 300hp superlight FF, that was no shocker to me. But as I turned in thru the final s-turn to the starting line, I knew this thing was gonna be a handful. "UNDERSTEEEEER" was the phrase running thru my mind as I tried to keep this thing out of the grass and off the walls. It has some decent stability, but man this thing feels like the Leno Tank Car at times. I finished a lap, @1:39xxx. Not too bad for a little car at The Mountain. But I knew I could do better.

    I went ahead and evaluated your setup and noted a couple things that I felt would ease this thing up thru the turns:

    I gave it a little ballast, 81kg @ +50 for the position. Making it 55/45

    Replaced the adjustable LSD with the stock one. Your settings made it too tight for my taste.

    Dropped the ride height to -10/-15 (f/r)
    Spring rate: 7.0/4.0
    Dampers E: 6/5
    Dampers C: 4/6
    Anti-roll: 2/1

    Camber: 1.9/0.8
    Toe: -0.15/0.10 (i think this was the biggest culprit honestly)

    I left the brakes and transmission as yours. You have excellent tranny settings. :D

    With my setup, my 2nd lap out was 1:36.xxx, a quicker lap by a whole 3 seconds. Give my setup a try vs. your own, and hopefully you guys can see the difference. :)
  10. Leonidae@MFT

    Premium
    Finland Riverside, Ca
    PSN:GTP_Leonidae_MFT

    Huh.. I don't recall it being THAT bad. Although, it could be the result of changed tyre physics. :odd: I'll give it a run once I have time. I still have some packing to do.
  11. Greycap

    Premium
    Finland Finland

    My first three laps with it were below 1'36, the fastest one of the bunch being 1'35,633. The next batch consisted of one 1'35,xxx and two 1'34,xxx and the time now stands at 1'34,683. I also tried your version and while the handling was noticably different the actual performance wasn't, the gap hovering between -0,2xx to +0,1xx throughout the lap and eventually ending up marginally slower at 1'34,738. Better at slow corners, worse at fast ones - it's always a compromise.
  12. Leonidae@MFT

    Premium
    Finland Riverside, Ca
    PSN:GTP_Leonidae_MFT

    That's more like it. It could be due to difference in driving style, I suppose..

    But, I'd like to see some reviews of the latest pair. Who is ready and willing to try his or her hand with these muscle monsters?
  13. trackripper123

    China London
    PSN:Ziz528

    I have an RM'ed Camaro lying around, might give it a shot, but I don't have DLC, so apologies Greycap. :lol: Maybe review for review again?
  14. Leonidae@MFT

    Premium
    Finland Riverside, Ca
    PSN:GTP_Leonidae_MFT

    Please do. :)
  15. frenzal

    Australia Brisbane
    PSN:Fisho_Man

    I've just found this shop looking for specific info...I'm intrigues by quite a number of the vehicles you have here and am looking forward to trying them out. A question...have you in some cases specifically set out to emulate RL vehicles, or used a little artistic license in conjunction with RL cars.
  16. Leonidae@MFT

    Premium
    Finland Riverside, Ca
    PSN:GTP_Leonidae_MFT

    In the case of Camaro RM, I used actual racing series vehicle, but took a bit of license with the specs and power since it was impossible to match them without choking the hell out of the motor. There's few other cars that have been inspired by actual real world cars, but most of them are flight of our imagination. And if you think that we have a lot of vehicles now, oyu should had seen our GT4 garage! :lol:
  17. frenzal

    Australia Brisbane
    PSN:Fisho_Man

    :tup: Love your group's avatars as well.
    :cheers:
  18. nomis3613

    Premium
    PSN:nomis3613

    Hi Leo and Greycap,

    Here's a
    ...review. (EDIT: not Alpine A110RS!!)

    Tested on update 2.07 offline, sixaxis controller, grip reduction real, aids off (except ABS 1).

    MAD FINN'S TUNE AT GRAND VALLEY EAST
    Lap time 1:03.9

    Damn, this thing is fast and...ahem lets be polite and say "suffers no fools". Which meant with me at the wheel, it was pretty much an unguided missile. The laptime is well short of the car's potential since I regarded just staying on the black stuff as an achievement. The power is phenomenal, the noise is spine-tingling and the grip is minimal.

    Stability under brakes was a major issue heading into GVE's first corner. The loooong braking distance means you need to start braking before the chassis has settled after the kink, which means the rear has a mind of its own as you desperately try to wash off speed. On the way out, outside wheelspin limits the amount of V10 you can use (or produces terrifying tank-slappers!). During the times when the brakes and engine are not trying to spin you around, the chassis balance is moderate understeer, especially at high speeds and if you don't use the lowest gear possible in tight corners. There is a lot of dive under brakes, which I found to reduce agility.

    Sorry for the grim story...on the bright side, the gearing is wonderful.

    PARTS ONLY (default settings, except LSD 5/5/5) AT GRAND VALLEY EAST
    Lap time 1:04.2

    The rear is even more slidey under brakes than the MFT tune. However, there is less mid-corner understeer so I found it easier to drive due to the more consistent balance through a corner (although it ends up looking less like a hot lap and more like a driftu session!). The car was less keen to power-oversteer, which also means the ability to steer using the throttle was gone. A very noticeable difference was traction- the MFT tune has oodles more of it than default settings.

    PARTS ONLY AT FUJI F
    Lap time 1:43.7

    Traction is a real problem here. Spinning up the inside rear is fun, and helpful the recover from understeer, but it does hurt lap time. While turn-in is excellent, it is clearly too much for the rear tyres because using full turn-in results in mid-corner oversteer, often even 4 wheel drifts (not the good type, but the "there's simply no grip" type!). And there was a bit too much lateral body roll for my liking, as the body movement seemed to upset the chassis balance.

    MFT TUNE AT FUJI F
    Lap time 1:43.1

    :confused: This is the most confusing test ever! Where the mid-corner understeer held the MFT tune back at GVE, here at Fuji it elevated it to greatness. Unlike Parts Only, I could use full turn-in and the car would nicely flow through the entry and mid-corner. Also, the extra understeer gave me more confidence to throw the car around to its limit. The extra traction was a blessing, however you can't get too greedy because there is always the thread of outside wheelspin turning you around. Aside from this, I actually enjoyed driving the car here (unlike the other 3 tests).

    FINAL THOUGHTS
    This much power with so little grip makes for a challenging drive. While the basic characteristics of Parts Only and the MFT tune can be recognised at both tracks, I have never experienced so much variation in driving experience between tracks before. The pick of the bunch is the MFT tune at Fuji, so congratulations to the Finns of Madness.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  19. Leonidae@MFT

    Premium
    Finland Riverside, Ca
    PSN:GTP_Leonidae_MFT

    Thank you! It is an older tune, one that I might revise once I get my PS3 up and running here in America-land. I still love that crazy rear-engined Alpine due the lightness and agility. It was made for older physics models so it might not work so well at the current one, as you noticed. I think I already have a tweaked setup in my garage, ready give bigger boys a fright.
  20. nomis3613

    Premium
    PSN:nomis3613

    You're welcome.

    "Alpine"??
    *checks review post*
    :O.... :ouch:... :dunce: Ummm...
    Woops I quoted the wrong post. It's actually a review of the LFA. Sorry for the confusion.
  21. Niku Driver HC

    Portugal Valongo
    PSN:Hcclipper

    Hey there, I would like to make a suggestion. How about a tuned M-Benz CL600 from the 2000's? Like a AMG version of some sorts.
  22. Leonidae@MFT

    Premium
    Finland Riverside, Ca
    PSN:GTP_Leonidae_MFT

    Yeah, I was wondering that V10-bit and traction issues.. :odd: :lol: fixed it yet?


    Well, I'll look into it once I get my PS3 into working order. Some compatibility issues with US/Euro versions :irked:
  23. Leonidae@MFT

    Premium
    Finland Riverside, Ca
    PSN:GTP_Leonidae_MFT

    Still no reviews of the muscle racers?:guilty:
  24. Which are them ?
  25. Leonidae@MFT

    Premium
    Finland Riverside, Ca
    PSN:GTP_Leonidae_MFT

    Camaro and Challenger, the latest ones.
  26. Intersting , send FR to werty_56-1 and share them :dopey:

    FYI, i'm a crap at giving feeedback.
  27. Leonidae@MFT

    Premium
    Finland Riverside, Ca
    PSN:GTP_Leonidae_MFT

    I can't share them until my GT5 arrives in ~10 days. And feedback is feedback..
  28. Damn ...
  29. Leonidae@MFT

    Premium
    Finland Riverside, Ca
    PSN:GTP_Leonidae_MFT

    You can always do it the old fashioned way :D
  30. I'm gonna wait a few hours , it's 2 Am and i'm sweating and tuning a ZZ-S for drag racing ..
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