Maintenance / Ownership Consequences: Introduction of the Body Damage

[amar212]

Gran Turismo is still unique game in the overall driving genre because of one unique feature that lives in the GT series since the first 1997 game - the actual consequences of the ownership and need to maintenance your vehicle.

In the GT1 and GT2 it was only the Car Wash (accumulated dirt was slightly affecting aerodynamic capabilities, while washing the car was restoring them to the original values). GT3 introduced GT Auto and mileage count and need to change the oil through Oil Change or engine would start to lose power with mileage. GT4 delivered Chassis Recycle (way of driving - bumping, crashing - was influencing the virtual chassis, making car less drivable during usage). GT5 went to additional lengths by expanding the need to maintain the engine through Engine Overhaul, influenced by way car is driven (high revs, etc).

All of that was one of the strongest ties of the player - owner - to each of his vehicles.

Prior to the release of GT6, the official screenshots and official online manual showed next radical step in the unique GT philosophy of ownership/maintenance consequences - Body Damage Repair.

Here is the official screenshot of the functionality:

Description in the Online Manual - removed on the very launch day of GT6 - said the following:

Damage, Dirt and Deterioration

The distance you have driven in a car is displayed on the odometer. Driving over long distances causes engine condition, oil condition and body rigidity to gradually deteriorate. This is known as "deterioration". Your car's body will also get dirty, and may suffer dents or scratches as a result of collisions or crashes. This is known as "damage". If your car has suffered damage or if its condition has started to deteriorate, please visit the Pit Service in order to repair your car.

Deterioration and damage are dealt with in the following ways, depending on the race mode:

Career Mode
Deterioration and damage incurred while racing remains once a race is complete. If you cancel a race before it is finished, your car's condition will deteriorate, but damage will be reset.

Free Run
Your car will incur deterioration and damage while driving, but as soon as you quit the Free Run, the damage will be reset.

Arcade Mode
Your car will incur deterioration and damage while racing, but both deterioration and damage are reset as soon as you select "Quit" from the Race Menu.

Instead of Body Damage we got all other existing GT Auto functionalities from GT1-GT5 period - which look like this still today:

By description above, Body Damage in GT6 should have been THE MAJOR DEVELOPMENT IN THE OWNERSHIP/MAINTENANCE PHILOSOPHY which would drastically influence the behavior of the player by adding PERMANENT VISUAL DETERIORATION caused by way car was driven.

This thread asks for bringing Body Damage fuctionality back, since it was evidently removed from the V1.00 version of the game prior to the actual launch.

 

[Swagger897]

I can see how this would be good, but I also see how it would be bad...

When GT first debuted, a problem was heavily noticed with LMP race cars as they are some of the most finesse cars in the game. After a certain mileage was passed, deterioration of the cars degraded at a rate where cars could not drive in straight lines almost. The cost for these approximates between 250,000 credits-500,000 credits. People were springs credits faster than earning, which led them to practically to being in debt to the cars...

If the cost was cheap, and a constant rate,I'd keep it. But if I had to pay 3 million credits for all carbon fiber on the R18, the **** would hit the fan...

 

[diegorborges]

This is one of the most important questions! Please answer this one if possible, Mr. Yamauchi.

 

[toni_cro]

👍

 

[Pejesapo]

It's very important to add consequences to reckless driving.

 

[ruttyboy]

+1

 

[GregOr1971]

Gran Turismo is still unique game in the overall driving genre because of one unique feature that lives in the GT series since the first 1997 game - the actual consequences of the ownership and need to maintenance your vehicle...

I vote for idea , because I'd like to have such an option combined with mechanical (not visual crash fest) damage in race ,so player would actually need to be carefull when driving or you could totaled or crash damaged your car (like irl) and consequentialy pay more for repair than you have earned in race. But then , I cant think of what an uprising would that bring to those who already complaint about this and that (grindfest , monetization , I want all cars 4 free)?

 

[VBR]

I was very disappointed indeed when this advertized feature suddenly disappeared.

 

[Pejesapo]

I vote for idea , because I'd like to have such an option combined with mechanical (not visual crash fest) damage in race ,so player would actually need to be carefull when driving or you could totaled or crash damaged your car (like irl) and consequentialy pay more for repair than you have earned in race. But then , I cant think of what an uprising would that bring to those who already complaint about this and that (grindfest , monetization , I want all cars 4 free)?

It can be a separate mode. Like a hard difficulty level.

 

[no1pal]

May also ad to bring back the current PP/HP stats and what it will be before you do an oil change and engine overhaul. Like it was in GT5.

 

[diegorborges]

May also ad to bring back the current PP/HP stats and what it will be before you do an oil change and engine overhaul. Like it was in GT5.

That can be a good simple tweak!

 

[Geoff]

i want to drive that!

 

[dzidza]

+1 👍

 

[TRLWNC7396]

I vote for idea , because I'd like to have such an option combined with mechanical (not visual crash fest) damage in race ,so player would actually need to be carefull when driving or you could totaled or crash damaged your car (like irl) and consequentialy pay more for repair than you have earned in race. But then , I cant think of what an uprising would that bring to those who already complaint about this and that (grindfest , monetization , I want all cars 4 free)?

Yes, but....

It can be a separate mode. Like a hard difficulty level.

This!

Multiple game play levels! (And now, that idea just got REALLY complex! Eeesh!)

 

[sems4arsenal]

Still remember the Impreza shot in the E3 trailer of GT5 when they showed some impressive damage.

 

[Rustyhole]

PERMANENT VISUAL DETERIORATION caused by way car was driven.

At this point, I'd settle for dirt that stays on the car until I wash it!!

 

[TRLWNC7396]

Yeah, it's a bit odd to have a washed car when you switch races online...

 

[twitcher]

Overall, I've always thought this is an absolutely horrible idea.

I'll never understand why people are so enthralled with the idea of recreating the miserable aspects of real life in the virtual world.

As someone who uses GT for drifting, my cars get absolutely thrashed on a daily basis (my side hobby is freeway racing on SSR7, which is even more destructive that drifting). It's to the point, where with the current "body damage" paradigm we are in, I need to grind credits just to keep my cars on the road.

I'm sorry, but I work my ass of 50+ hours a week to keep my real car on the road, pay bills, buy food, etc. I have zero desire to do anything similar to this in a video game.

I used to play World of Warcraft back in the day, which includes a feature similar to "body damage" (but to your "gear"). It was one of the main reasons I quit the game, as keeping my gear repaired became a job in the game. I spent as much time farming gold to pay repair bills as I did actually doing fun things in the game.

If you've never played a game which seriously requires you to "maintain" your account by constantly spending in-game currency, you have no idea what kind of misery you are in for.

And don't think for a second that developer's eyes don't light up at the idea of this concept in conjunction with micro transactions.


I know I'm being super negative, but this is kind of a pet peeve of mine

I could support this if there were an option to turn it off.

In my ideal GT, there would be no credits, and everything would be available to everyone.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

Hmmm.... powerful point. I still think credits give us something to work for, but, yeah.... turning off damage would be a MAJOR plus for people like you.

 

[drivatar]

If you've never played a game which seriously requires you to "maintain" your account by constantly spending in-game currency, you have no idea what kind of misery you are in for.

And don't think for a second that developer's eyes don't light up at the idea of this concept in conjunction with micro transactions.

Real Racing 3 . You have to pay and wait to repair your car. Or pay even more to skip repair times.

 

[gtone339]

i want to drive that!

Visual Damage recreated for cars in GT7 would make it more realistic!

 

[twitcher]

Hmmm.... powerful point. I still think credits give us something to work for, but, yeah.... turning off damage would be a MAJOR plus for people like you.

I thought about it a little more after posting, and while I would prefer eliminate the credit grind, I realized I really only need this to apply to the online portion of my gaming experience.

I still think an offline career mode is an important aspect of the GT franchise, and I fully understand the roll of credits in a career mode environment.

To solve the "dilemma" of the two different approaches, I would still have all cars, parts, upgrades, etc available to all players, without the need to unlock anything, right at the start of the game. You could use any car you want, built any way you want, to either play with online, test drive offline, take photos, etc. However, accessible from the main menu would be a Career Mode. In Career Mode, you would trace the steps of an up and coming race driver, starting from the bottom, and working your way up. It is in this mode where you would have to earn credits to support your racing career. When in Career Mode, you would only be able to access cars, parts, etc., that you have purchased/unlocked in career mode.

The idea is to have a "one way filter", ie, in Career mode, you can only access Career Mode stuff, but outside of Career Mode, you can access everything (including what you have in Career Mode).


Sorry, getting off topic now

 

[TRLWNC7396]

This goes back to the "5 levels" of play that I mentioned in another post.

 

[Tenacious D]

I think this is important enough that it be done right, like to at least Forza 2 level, both visual and mechanical. If it isn't ready to that level,then work on it till it is.

 

[amar212]

I think this is important enough that it be done right, like to at least Forza 2 level, both visual and mechanical. If it isn't ready to that level,then work on it till it is.

Tenacious, friend, have you even read the OP?

It is not "body damage" as "damaging the body", it is the Body Damage functionality that was apparently taken out of the GT6 just before the release.

 

[Tenacious D]

No, I did read it, but I do want to nudge the subject more in the direction of full damage. I didn't see another damage thread, though I probably should look for one, and I didn't want to post one of my own and dilute the effectiveness of yours. Thus the slight addition, which I hope you don't mind.

 

[acnexus001]

I can see how this would be good, but I also see how it would be bad...

When GT first debuted, a problem was heavily noticed with LMP race cars as they are some of the most finesse cars in the game. After a certain mileage was passed, deterioration of the cars degraded at a rate where cars could not drive in straight lines almost. The cost for these approximates between 250,000 credits-500,000 credits. People were springs credits faster than earning, which led them to practically to being in debt to the cars...

If the cost was cheap, and a constant rate,I'd keep it. But if I had to pay 3 million credits for all carbon fiber on the R18, the **** would hit the fan...

Yeah, i get your point. This has to be a turning point in the dynamics of the game.
Racing cars are expensive to run and maintain. That's kind of the point.

When I heard that there was a 20 million credit cap because they didn't want us having unlimited amounts of credit, this pay to maintain seemed logical.

Think about having a random racing series to replenish the funds, or even earning a sponsorship to cover the most expensive racers. Again seems logical...

 

[acnexus001]

I like my car to show a certain amount of wear, meaning that if I go to the effort of making her filthy, then I want her to stay that way till I say so.

I recently started enjoying the dirt tracks, taking my wonderful RS6 out. By the end of the first lap the "dirt" from the track had scored the bottom of the car. I was expecting to see the same level of dirt on the car in other races, but no. Clean with some of the shine taken off.

Maintenance is part of the driving/racing experience, an expensive part but still part of it.
Fuel
Tires
Gearbox
NOS
Bodywork
Suspension wear

If anyone remembers Colin McRae Rally games, they will understand how abusing your beloved machine will make you pay.
GT seems to want to put in place all kinds of penalties for cutting corners and driving carelessly. This is, to me, a no brainer.
If you cut a corner with collapsible bollards - smashed headlight with scrapped paint work.
If you shoot over a chicane at full speed- the kerb or rumble strips would damage the bottom of the car.

This is a much easier way of enforcing driving skill. Consequences...

 

[Tenacious D]

Think about having a random racing series to replenish the funds, or even earning a sponsorship to cover the most expensive racers. Again seems logical...

This is what many of us would love to see, every aspect of motorsports PD can possibly cram into Gran Turismo, and this is definitely one of them. Other games have novel ways of handling sponsorships, and it shouldn't be too hard to have levels of wealthier sponsors interested in you based on how well you race. Cash prozes and sponsorships would fit quite well in a more simulation based GT Pro Mode, and with a proper damage build, this would be a big help with keeping your machine well maintained.

 

[TheProRacer]

+5