Need help building competitive 500pp muscle cars for online racing

  • Thread starter Cobra_H1
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Cobra_H1
Hello everyone, I'll make this short and sweet, I'm obsessed with American cars yet if I'm not using a C7, '10 Camaro SS, Viper GTS, GT/GT40 or a Series One I'm usually not able to compete in any online lobby (unless the competition plain sucks), and even then all of these cars with the exception of the Series One will flat out lose on any straight and barely win in the corners

Here's a list of cars that always beat me and their times (as driven by me)

track: Grand Valley Speedway
conditions: 500pp, sports soft tires, upgraded parts with standard settings (no camber(it's still broken)/rear toe at .20)

M3 CSL - best: 1:57.064 avg: 1:57.5
RX-7 Spirit R - best: 1:56.974 avg 1:57.3
Ferrari GTO - best: 1:57.526 avg 1:58
Camaro SS - best: 1:57.787 avg: 1:58.1
Shelby Series One - best: 1:57.111 avg 1:57.25
RUF RGT - best:1:57.155 avg - terrible/too many crashes to bother with

So here's the deal: I'm not the best at suspension/diff/tranny tuning and I want to be competitive (so a car that can claim a mid 1:58 or lower) in any muscle car that's not one of the 6 I already mentioned, is it a possibility and if there's any existing tunes out there can anyone point me out to them?

Keep in mind I've already tried a multitude of different things, from crazy toe settings to lots of rear ballast to long and short gearing and so far I keep barely making the 2:00 mark for most of my own tuned American cars

thanks,
- C

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No mention of the NSX? I'll admit I've not really tried it in GT6, but it was a killer in GT5 @500PP. The NSX isn't really a Muscle car, but I see you've listed the RX-7 and the RUF. If MR cars are acceptable, I'd also have a look at the HSC, that was uber quick in GT5. Finally, it's only straight line quick if you're prepared to make it heavy, but the Elise 111R was always a contender. It has obvious fragilities, with its tiny 4 cylinder engine, so you'll have to make it heavy in order to maximise power...

{Cy}
 
Car of the month thread has Z06 Vettes, @shaunm80 has a '00 that will need a final gear adjustment but is definately worth a look. There are others as well, including some of my own, for you to try along with reviews. An '06 Z06 detuned may be competitive or as @CyKosis1973 has said, an NSX. I have one in my garage with a link to it in my signature. Most of the cars on your list there are PD ringers, they got extra love from PD. Good luck.
 
No mention of the NSX? I'll admit I've not really tried it in GT6, but it was a killer in GT5 @500PP. The NSX isn't really a Muscle car, but I see you've listed the RX-7 and the RUF. If MR cars are acceptable, I'd also have a look at the HSC, that was uber quick in GT5. Finally, it's only straight line quick if you're prepared to make it heavy, but the Elise 111R was always a contender. It has obvious fragilities, with its tiny 4 cylinder engine, so you'll have to make it heavy in order to maximise power...

{Cy}

Apologies if I wasn't clear, but when I was referring to "the 6 cars mentioned earlier" I meant the C7/Viper/Series One/Camaro SS/GT and GT40, the only cars I use online in open lobbies are American and I've got my bases covered in the lower 400pp area (I use a Taurus SHO, Pontiac Solstice and Ram 1500) that perform well as well as cars that can take on the likes of which of an LFA at 550pp+ (my Vipers, Camaro SS and Ford GT)

I've got no good American weapons at 470-530pp so that's why I'm here

We have had a few FITT tuner competitions using muscle cars.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/fitt-records-and-archives.318134/
neat, I'll give some of those a try, I notice that some of those list aftermarket wheels as an option, does that at all affect performance?
 
I don't think you'll be able to make older muscle cars competitive against other good racers in decent cars, they just won't have the cornering speeds no matter what you do.

I frequently use old muscle cars in my friend's 500pp room, and they are always at least 2 seconds a lap slower even if the handling feels sweet as anything. I find apex speeds compared to normal cars are often around 5mph lower. You can still win with them, but only if you're around 2-3 seconds a lap quicker than the best guys in the room in a spec race.

Happy to try and tune some with you though. Though the current FITT competition is running at 550pp, try my Mustang tune out here to see how it feels for you.
 
I don't think you'll be able to make older muscle cars competitive against other good racers in decent cars, they just won't have the cornering speeds no matter what you do.

I frequently use old muscle cars in my friend's 500pp room, and they are always at least 2 seconds a lap slower even if the handling feels sweet as anything. I find apex speeds compared to normal cars are often around 5mph lower. You can still win with them, but only if you're around 2-3 seconds a lap quicker than the best guys in the room in a spec race.

Happy to try and tune some with you though. Though the current FITT competition is running at 550pp, try my Mustang tune out here to see how it feels for you.
I'm feeling the same way, I have bought and tested about 90% of the American car catalog at Grand Valley against the fd/e46/etc and most turn around a 2:01 to 2:02 laptime, then again all I do is change the rear toe to .20 and camber to 0/set tranny to 180mph and sometimes add rear ballast

Do you think your tune for the GT500 will work on the boss302? (same wheelbase, slightly lighter, irs)

Maybe the Mustang Mach 1, maybe. It handles better an all of the other muscle cars. The Camaro 69 race car might also be a contender?
The Mach1 has great numbers behind it being the 2nd lightest mustang with what looks like a good power curve that doesn't completely die at the top end, unfortunately in practice driving it on sport soft tires is like driving the E46 CSL on sports hard tires so it loses hard in the corners, worse yet and I can't get it to reach 150mph by the finish line where as the FD RX-7 crosses the line at 151 or 152 mph

A strangely competent Muscle car which I recommend to you gents that know your tuning look into is the 1970 Dodge Charger as it makes power to its redline (ultra high revving 5500rpm) and boast 50:50 weight distro from the factory, it's a little wonky (on my settings) but can hold its own against NSX Type R's on technical circuits such as Apricot or the Nurburgring GP,
- C
 
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Well I've broken the 1:58 barrier in the Mustang Boss 302 (1:58.8 something)
here's my settings, while it's a huge improvement from the 2:01's I was getting, I don't think there's any more potential to tap into from here, once again 500pp and sports soft tires

RH: 120/90
SR: 9.00/11.23
DC: 4/6
DE:5/8
ARB: 4/5
CA:0/0
Toe: -.05/-.25
Brakes: 4/4

LSD:
IT: 10
AS: 14
BS: 7

oil change
aftermarket wheels (not sure if it matters)
stage 3 weight reduction
200kg at 50 for 48:52 weight distro
lots of power limiter
 
Well I've broken the 1:58 barrier in the Mustang Boss 302 (1:58.8 something)
here's my settings, while it's a huge improvement from the 2:01's I was getting, I don't think there's any more potential to tap into from here, once again 500pp and sports soft tires

RH: 120/90
SR: 9.00/11.23
DC: 4/6
DE:5/8
ARB: 4/5
CA:0/0
Toe: -.05/-.25
Brakes: 4/4

LSD:
IT: 10
AS: 14
BS: 7

oil change
aftermarket wheels (not sure if it matters)
stage 3 weight reduction
200kg at 50 for 48:52 weight distro
lots of power limiter
There is a current FITT Ford Challenge going on, testing is being done currently on the Boss 302. I tested and there are some really fast ones, some very comfortable ones. So it depends on your driving style and the line you are taking. Not that my tune was that fastest, but another tuner did de-tune it to 500pp and said it faired really well. May I suggest you look and the tunes and their settings and then read some of the reviews. Will give you a chance to see if you should try different settings AND maybe get a few tenths lower. Might also suggest trying @Motor City Hami tune as his was not specifically tuned for Willow Springs and might do well at Silverstone.
Tunes here:
Hami's tune here
Review by @biffa3 here
Review by @Lionheart2113 here
Review by me here

The Boss 302 is a surprisingly well balance car when tune correctly, fast and fun too......and I am a Chevy guy. Good luck.:)
 
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You shouldn't be getting beat by m3's. They are too heavy in gt6 and aren't as competitive as they were in gt5. I'd recommend my series 1 tune. It's built on ss and is 500pp and ridiculously easy to drive. I'll look into some corvettes and others and see what I find.
 
The Boss 302 is a surprisingly well balance car when tune correctly, fast and fun too......and I am a Chevy guy. Good luck.:)
I'm brand agnostic, so long as it's American, loud, has 8 cylinders in the front and power goes to the rear I'm a fan. (heck, I like all cars from all parts of the world, even drive a miata irl, but made it a goal of mine to only use domestic and less than popular cars online in GT6).

I'm new to the GTplanet forums so if you've got any tunes for the 90's Camaro's, the third gen IROC concept or any older (pre-C6) Corvettes I don't know how I would find them but I'd like to see them.

You shouldn't be getting beat by m3's. They are too heavy in gt6 and aren't as competitive as they were in gt5. I'd recommend my series 1 tune. It's built on ss and is 500pp and ridiculously easy to drive. I'll look into some corvettes and others and see what I find.
First of all, I appreciate that you'll look into a couple cars for me, thank you.

Second, try out the E46 CSL if you haven't already with unchanged fully customizable suspension settings but camber at 0 and rear toe at .20, it weighs in around 1100kg and revs to 8k rpm with a NA inline 6 and has 50:50 weight distro from the factory (and cardboard in the trunk according to top gear), I test drove it and legit asked myself how I ever beat any of them online because as far I'm concerned its handling is perfect as in it's very easy to tell when you're at the limit of grip, it's easy to tell when to get on the power on corner exit and its high revving engine makes it no slouch on the straight, heck, with a little fine tuning of its gearing it can probably outrun an FD RX-7 Spirit R Type A.

Also funny enough the current very heavy M5 is also a beast, corners extremely nicely and doesn't lose any corner exiting power to wheel spin. I haven't driven it but I got blown out by one online driven by a Japanese player.
 
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...1-09-updated-cars-already-rolling-out.304585/ has some great tunes and his Shelby Series one is a blast to drive.

Also check out AngHell.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...e-latest-tunes-gtr-specv-09-r8-4-2-07.304544/

He also lists tunes in the tuning https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/link-forums/gt6-tuning-database.350/

Most of his tunes are on Racing softs but i have found they transfer very well to sport softs. You may need to tweek the tune a little for sports softs, but worth visit. Make sure you check out his Shelby GT350. Sweet.
 
I'm brand agnostic, so long as it's American, loud, has 8 cylinders in the front and power goes to the rear I'm a fan. (heck, I like all cars from all parts of the world, even drive a miata irl, but made it a goal of mine to only use domestic and less than popular cars online in GT6).

I'm new to the GTplanet forums so if you've got any tunes for the 90's Camaro's, the third gen IROC concept or any older (pre-C6) Corvettes I don't know how I would find them but I'd like to see them.


First of all, I appreciate that you'll look into a couple cars for me, thank you.

Second, try out the E46 CSL if you haven't already with unchanged fully customizable suspension settings but camber at 0 and rear toe at .20, it weighs in around 1100kg and revs to 8k rpm with a NA inline 6 and has 50:50 weight distro from the factory (and cardboard in the trunk according to top gear), I test drove it and legit asked myself how I ever beat any of them online because as far I'm concerned its handling is perfect as in it's very easy to tell when you're at the limit of grip, it's easy to tell when to get on the power on corner exit and its high revving engine makes it no slouch on the straight, heck, with a little fine tuning of its gearing it can probably outrun an FD RX-7 Spirit R Type A.

Also funny enough the current very heavy M5 is also a beast, corners extremely nicely and doesn't lose any corner exiting power to wheel spin. I haven't driven it but I got blown out by one online driven by a Japanese player.
I have done almost every Chevy in game, not saying they are the best tunes out there but you can check them out for yourself and decide. In my signature below, Bowtie's Speed Shop, click on it and it will take you to my garage. The second post has all of my tunes. If you click on the links I put in my earlier post, you can see 17 Boss 302 tunes and 3 reviews of those tunes, @Motor City Hami also lead you to the Mach 1 and other tunes, there are 2 AAR Cuda tunes that were good tunes months ago. With the other suggestions you have also been given, you should have many choices to choose from, can only imagine that you will find something that works for you.
 
you're fighting an uphill battle. at 500pp, other than the shelby series one, all the american cars are a shade slower than the 'typical' fast 500pp cars. not to say you cant win but you'll have to outdrive your opposition.

the quickest american cars at 500 are propably the shelby, 69 camaro z28, slightly detuned C5 Z06. the C4 ZR1 and the 'regular' C4 were quick in GT5 but i havent tried them in GT6 too much.
 
a detuned 00' Z06 was the best I could come up with after trying a few chevy's and a 1:57.9 was the best I could get. I then ran a 1:56.9 in my series 1 so that's most likely going to be the best american car out there at 500pp. Bad news is I took my NSX out for comparison and after a couple of tweaks ran a 1:54.6. The absolute fact of it is, you aren't going to beat the MR cars in this game.

That detuned Z06 drove remarkably well and it felt like you were going really fast until the times came in. It's most definitely a good and fun car, just not competitive.

EDIT: kickass avatar pic BTW
 
That detuned Z06 drove remarkably well and it felt like you were going really fast until the times came in. It's most definitely a good and fun car, just not competitive.
I can't find any Z06 in your garage, can you post it?

you're fighting an uphill battle. at 500pp, other than the shelby series one, all the american cars are a shade slower than the 'typical' fast 500pp cars. not to say you cant win but you'll have to outdrive your opposition.

the quickest american cars at 500 are propably the shelby, 69 camaro z28, slightly detuned C5 Z06. the C4 ZR1 and the 'regular' C4 were quick in GT5 but i havent tried them in GT6 too much.
Where the Mustang Boss 302 and GT500 seem to have very similar handling despite being vastly different cars, the C4 GS and ZR-1 both seem to handle extremely differently despite seeming similar, the ZR-1 struggles for grip while the Grand Sport has staying power, you can mash the throttle as much as you want and none of your 370-400hp will be lost to wheel spin at all

heck, just 2 months ago (before the quick race update) my C4 Grand Sport was battling RX-7's and pulling a couple wins too by using a slightly hardened but most untouched fully modifiable suspension kit and having 200kg of ballast in the back and just enough power limiter so the power curve wouldn't die at the top

It was still usually a second slower than most of the top of pp class (*cough* overpowered *cough* unbalanced) cars mentioned in the original post during practice but it would still stay in the competitions mirrors and was more than fast enough to keep the pressure on the lead car heavy

Sadly on the current version my Grand Sport is no longer controllable and has lost around a second in testing, otherwise I would just be chugging along in that and would not have made this thread
 
I can't find any Z06 in your garage, can you post it?


Where the Mustang Boss 302 and GT500 seem to have very similar handling despite being vastly different cars, the C4 GS and ZR-1 both seem to handle extremely differently despite seeming similar, the ZR-1 struggles for grip while the Grand Sport has staying power, you can mash the throttle as much as you want and none of your 370-400hp will be lost to wheel spin at all

heck, just 2 months ago (before the quick race update) my C4 Grand Sport was battling RX-7's and pulling a couple wins too by using a slightly hardened but most untouched fully modifiable suspension kit and having 200kg of ballast in the back and just enough power limiter so the power curve wouldn't die at the top

It was still usually a second slower than most of the top of pp class (*cough* overpowered *cough* unbalanced) cars mentioned in the original post during practice but it would still stay in the competitions mirrors and was more than fast enough to keep the pressure on the lead car heavy

Sadly on the current version my Grand Sport is no longer controllable and has lost around a second in testing, otherwise I would just be chugging along in that and would not have made this thread
i didn't actually release the tune, that's why you didn't see it. it was more just seeing what I could get out of a few cars. I'll PM it to you tonight when i get on the PS3
 
the rx-8 -- all of them but, specifically the concept, is the quickest car at 500pp in this game. it should propably have 520pp or so.
It was before 1.09. Post 1.09, it's the nsx or the the Lotus depending on the track. The rx8's still have a better power to weight but don't handle like they used to.
 
my current cars which almost fight the fight the good fight online, guaranteed to please the spectators against anything but that friggin RX500/RX-8

Pontiac Solstice concept, bought out the tuning shop aside for the super charger for 378hp na horses with the power limiter at 97.7%, 176kg in the rear (+50 position), an understeery suspension to control the mad instability from all the added weight too:
RH: 95/105
SR: 5.17/4.78
DC: 3/3
DE: 4/4
AR: 33
C: 0/0
TA: -0.08/.31

diff:
is:13
as: 33
bs: 13

tranny set at 180mph auto

the C4 Grand Sport lives too, stage 1 engine, sports ecu and racing exhaust plus all the other nonpower goodies with 180kg in the trunk (+50 position)

suspension:
RH: 105/105
SR: 9.13/7.95
DC: 5/5
DE: 7/7
AR: 5/5
C: 0/0
TA: 0/.20
brakes: 5/4

diff:
is: 12
as:25
bs: 10

tranny autoset to 186mph, power limiter at 94.7%

side note: I love how pitifully the Tesla roadster loses off the line in the current quick races to torqueless honda's

great game pd, the real driving sim for sure
 
When I originally saw this post I thought when you said 'muscle cars' that you meant like the 69's and such. Now reading through I see that's not the case lol.
I dont know if this helps any but I just posted one of my quick 550 weapons in my garage. The somewhat overlooked FT-86.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ddevil-r33tc-ft86sports.318411/#post-10184048

You would have to shave 50pp off of it, and maybe tweek it accordingly, but it is a very quick and effective creeper. (it's also very light, which helps a ton).
I mention this only because there are so many cars that are way overlooked by people building for online racing. The RX's, NSX's, and Lotus's and such are more "old faithful" types, where everyone knows through history they can be tweeked to be quick fairly easily. But if your like me, I prefer to be different then the rest whenever possible lol.
If this helps you awesome, if not, hey I tried.
Best of luck to you man ^^
 
When I originally saw this post I thought when you said 'muscle cars' that you meant like the 69's and such
I did mean that, V8 in the front with the power going to rear/body on frame, but now I'm limiting my scope to just American cars, grey market imports included (Series One excluded)
 
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