Nissan R35 GT-R's handling is nerfed... too much

[jlmcmillan1978]

I hope they haven't 'nerfed' anything, especially in reaction to a heap of whiners who don't know what they're talking about. Like many people, I lamented the fact that every time a R35 showed up in a lobby it was practically unbeatable, but unlike most of these people, I never saw it as unrealistic. I do a lot of time trials in the game (more than anything else really) with stock cars on what I see as being their stock tyres, and found that the GT-R was consistently able to knock on the door of its real life Nordschliefe time. If it's handling had been overly optimised by GT5, it would have been much faster, but it was pretty spot on. Now I know that my time trials are not proof definitive, but almost all other cars I tested in stock form were true to their real life times too, PD likes to get this stuff as accurate as possible. Or at least they used to. The GT-R is an amazing car which, like it or not, does amazing things in spite of its power to weight ratio. Deal with that.

 

[NFSCARBON1]

The real GTR relies on it's computer systems to be as fast as it is. Put ABS, TC and ASM on then compare the laptime to the GTO times you already have with aids off. That may be the reason it seems slow!

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

..The real GTR relies on it's computer systems to be as fast as it is..

Then why does the real one deliver best results when they're switched off..?

 

[Cosbuster]

Then why does the real one deliver best results when they're switched off..?

Because they have become sentient and only make you think they are off while working on the background with a big grin on their face (or whatever it is they have instead of a face) while you are left scratching your head, trying to figure out what the hell just happened.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Because they have become sentient and only make you think they are off while working on the background with a big grin on their face (or whatever it is they have instead of a face) while you are left scratching your head, trying to figure out what the hell just happened.

*Passes you the tinfoil hat* Here, your old one is leaking.

 

[Bigbazz]

While I don't agree that a 1984 Ferrari should be able to beat a GT-R, because it would never happen. I think the issue is that the classic cars are overly fast in Gran Turismo (as always, since the first game). You always see that old Corvette Stingray up there hanging with the modern racing cars.. Classic cars in Gran Turismo are always too fast.

I'm not a massive GT-R fan so haven't really driven it, can you take it around the ring with a sub 7:30 time? If yes then there is no issue. Don't forget that Kaz is the biggest GT-R enthusiast on the planet, he wouldn't let his baby underperform.

 

[jlmcmillan1978]

GT5 wasn't bad, but with GT6's new physics I feel it's just that much closer.

This is good to know. I'll trust the opinion of someone who's been lucky enough to drive one of these things in real life any day over anyone else's. Of course I have to assume you're legit, plenty of BS artists on forums after all.

Maybe the problem really is that the GTO is modeled way too fast, and on the day, may have been in the hands of a crazy good driver, exacerbating the problem. I don't have GT6 yet, but if I do get it I hope to find that the GTR still handles well, and can easily replicate it's real world times. I say easily, because it's biggest strength is supposed to be how easy it is to drive at speed.

Just one more thing concerning this opinion that exists regarding 'car this heavy can't be that fast', some Green Hell times with the cars respective power to weight ratios:

Porsche 918 Spyder 6:57:00 543hp/tonne

Nismo GT-R 7:08:68 348hp/tonne

'12 GT-R 7:19:10 317hp/tonne

Corvette ZR1 7:19:63 423hp/tonne

KTM X-BOW RR 7:25:72 451hp/tonne

'08 GT-R 7:26:70 270hp/tonne

See a trend developing here? Even the hard-core, lightweight special that is the X-BOW can't come close to doing what it does without a much, much higher power to weight ratio than the GTR, the GTR has consistently proven its amazing capability in spite of it's weight. Also note that the fastest of these cars, the 918, weighs 1634kg, so not exactly a lightweight. So again, how is it that the R35 as modeled in GT5 had such inflated capabilities? Looks to me like PD was spot on.

If it were possible, we could get more good info for this debate if we were we able to produce some 'hateful comments about the R35's capability/I got spanked by a noob driving an R35 in GT5' ratios.

 

[jlmcmillan1978]

Then why does the real one deliver best results when they're switched off..?

I actually found that the '07 GTR was fastest in GT5 with the aids on, including ESC. This is the only car I found this to be true with. There are many other cars with high hp that are faster most of the time with TC on, provided the setting is not too high, just as it is faster most of the time to use ABS rather than no ABS. But no other car is fastest with ESC on. Also with the ESC on in the R35 you have to drive the car VERY smooth. Enter a corner too hard, and too much ESC will kick in and slow you right down. Slow in fast out.

None of this of course has any bearing on what settings produce the fastest times for the car in real life. I have heard the real car is faster with aids off, but I'm betting that 99% of drivers would be faster at most circuits, and definitely on the road, with them on.

Curiously, I found the '12 GTR was always faster with aids off. I didn't like the '12 GTR in GT5. Felt like it handled a little weird, and it sounded awful, really don't know why it sounded different to the '07 model. I hope this isn't the basis for all of the GT-Rs in GT6.

 

[oik01]

Er.. that is actually stock Nismo GT-R. It's just as stock as F430 Scuderia.

http://m.motortrend.com/wot/1311_2015_nissan_gtr_nismo_has_staggering_600_hp.html

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Stock, as in it comes out from the factory like that. What is so hard to understand about that?

 

[HuskyGT]

I like the Spec-V. Hopefully it handles as it did in GT5. Didn't use it too much but it was fun to drive now and then.

 

[carracerptp]

I hope they haven't 'nerfed' anything, especially in reaction to a heap of whiners who don't know what they're talking about. Like many people, I lamented the fact that every time a R35 showed up in a lobby it was practically unbeatable, but unlike most of these people, I never saw it as unrealistic. I do a lot of time trials in the game (more than anything else really) with stock cars on what I see as being their stock tyres, and found that the GT-R was consistently able to knock on the door of its real life Nordschliefe time. If it's handling had been overly optimised by GT5, it would have been much faster, but it was pretty spot on. Now I know that my time trials are not proof definitive, but almost all other cars I tested in stock form were true to their real life times too, PD likes to get this stuff as accurate as possible. Or at least they used to. The GT-R is an amazing car which, like it or not, does amazing things in spite of its power to weight ratio. Deal with that.

Actually the GTR was faster much around the ring in GT5 than it was in real life (like many other cars).

Here is a stock GTR doing just under 7:10



And to here is a ZR1 doing a 7:11



The reason it was a pain online was becuase in a PP limited room it was much faster than other cars at the same PP. The game low balled it PP rating (same with the NSX, BMW CSL, etc).

*Passes you the tinfoil hat* Here, your old one is leaking.

He is right, the car like many other cars to today can't have it's computer "fully" turned off.

The real GTR relies on it's computer systems to be as fast as it is. Put ABS, TC and ASM on then compare the laptime to the GTO times you already have with aids off. That may be the reason it seems slow!

AIDS on in GT5 and GT6 are slower or no faster than AIDS off, every time in street cars (minus ABS and SRF ).

 

[jlmcmillan1978]

Actually the GTR was faster much around the ring in GT5 than it was in real life (like many other cars).

Here is a stock GTR doing just under 7:10



And to here is a ZR1 doing a 7:11



The reason it was a pain online was becuase in a PP limited room it was much faster than other cars at the same PP. The game low balled it PP rating (same with the NSX, BMW CSL, etc).



He is right, the car like many other cars to today can't have it's computer "fully" turned off.



AIDS on in GT5 and GT6 are slower or no faster than AIDS off, every time in street cars (minus ABS and SRF ).

Well I stand corrected, but aren't they sports tires that are being used? Neither one of those cars come with sports (semi slick/cup) tires in real life, although I hear that the Zr1 tires are bloody close. Also, are the weights of the cars along with the power outputs stock. Some people class stock as the engine power of the car from the dealership after an oil change, which is an exaggerated figure. That's why we need the power limiter and ballast adjustments in settings to get closer to real world figures if you're going to get serious about testing stock cars times against real life, which is pretty much my favourite past time in Gran Turismo.

I think that the most skilled drivers of this game will find that aids off is the fastest way around a track with any car, but the rest of us who are of 'mediocre' capability at best will only get close to real life times on the right tyres with driver aids on. I also would like to see anyone take a car like the Ferrari Enzo around any circuit on comfort tyres with all aids off in a faster time than with TC enabled. No seriously, someone post a video of that! It would be epic!

 

[Sier_Pinski]

Here is a stock GTR doing just under 7:10

And to here is a ZR1 doing a 7:11

It was interesting to play both those videos at once. The GTR for the most part had a 2-second lead up until the final straight.

 

[Bigbazz]

Aids off in the game isn't really comparable in the GT-R though. You wouldn't turn off ABS in the real car, the real car has brake turning to achieve higher cornering speeds and stability systems to correct it through corners, it can be driven so hard because it sorts itself out constantly, understeer/oversteer issues are corrected via the computers. The Mclaren MP4-12c is similar, that car is meant to be near undriveable with all the computer/tc systems off, even though it is incredibly fast with them on. The GT-R (like the Mclaren) does not handle like a typical car because of these systems.

The stock car comes with sports hards in GT5/6 which is better than the tyres on the real car.

 

[jlmcmillan1978]

This is the optional ZR1 tire which as you can see is as close to a cross between a cup tire and a true street radial as you're ever going to get. They are not standard fitment, but I'm sure that these would have been used for the Nordschleife time trials

This is the optional GT-R tire, which I think is standard on the Spec V and Black editions, not sure. To be honest it's a total cross as well with cup tire aspects on the outer parts for hard cornering and a true radial tread pattern at the centre to reduce aquaplaning in the wet.

I think both of these tires would be best represented by the Comfort Soft option rather than Sports Hard because there is still some true radial tread to them, but that's another completely off topic argument in itself I suppose.

 

[HuskyGT]

I guess this is pretty close to reality too! Ferrari FXX, meet the Honda FITT..:

That was kind of stupid. Not the guy; he did a great job. I mean the fact that you can do that. I would understand in a tight track with a heavily modified Fit with racing tires against a bunch of stock supercars. But still, I don't think it would be possible.

I'm pretty sure PD will fix this soon.

 

[jlmcmillan1978]

Aids off in the game isn't really comparable in the GT-R though. You wouldn't turn off ABS in the real car, the real car has brake turning to achieve higher cornering speeds and stability systems to correct it through corners, it can be driven so hard because it sorts itself out constantly, understeer/oversteer issues are corrected via the computers. The Mclaren MP4-12c is similar, that car is meant to be near undriveable with all the computer/tc systems off, even though it is incredibly fast with them on. The GT-R (like the Mclaren) does not handle like a typical car because of these systems.

The stock car comes with sports hards in GT5/6 which is better than the tyres on the real car.

Yes that's kind of my point these cars achieve their fastest times in most cases because of the driver aids, not in spite of them. It interests me that you say the GTR has brake turning, I did not realise this. The only car I knew of with this feature was the McLaren MP4-12C. Speaking of which, the McLaren in GT5 was completely buggered up by PD in my opinion. Does not put its power down, ride bumps, or handle as well, as it supposedly does in real life. The only way I could get even close to real world lap times with it was after some serious suspension tuning. And it too uses aids heavily in real life to achieve it's impressive performance, but in GT5 it seemed to always be slower with them on, the TC seems to have a really detrimental effect on it's power delivery in the game. It's one car that I'm hoping has been seriously improved in GT6.

 

[Bigbazz]

Yes that's kind of my point these cars achieve their fastest times in most cases because of the driver aids, not in spite of them. It interests me that you say the GTR has brake turning, I did not realise this. The only car I knew of with this feature was the McLaren MP4-12C. Speaking of which, the McLaren in GT5 was completely buggered up by PD in my opinion. Does not put its power down, ride bumps, or handle as well, as it supposedly does in real life. The only way I could get even close to real world lap times with it was after some serious suspension tuning. And it too uses aids heavily in real life to achieve it's impressive performance, but in GT5 it seemed to always be slower with them on, the TC seems to have a really detrimental effect on it's power delivery in the game. It's one car that I'm hoping has been seriously improved in GT6.

The MP4-12c in GT6 drives like it should, it's pretty understeery but very stable and puts in fast laptimes when you dial your driving into it (you really need to adjust to the way it drives). it also has a pretty sluggish steering response (you have to add more lock on turn-in in comparison to say a Ferrari 458) but this is accurate with the real car. It drives a lot like the Assetto Corsa version actually. If both sims have come to the same conclusion then it's probably pretty close. I find the GT6 version has better throttle response and slightly better steering response. It's nothing at all like the hopeless attempt they made in GT5.

 

[jlmcmillan1978]

The MP4-12c in GT6 drives like it should, it's pretty understeery but very stable and puts in fast laptimes when you dial your driving into it (you really need to adjust to the way it drives). it also has a pretty sluggish steering response (you have to add more lock on turn-in in comparison to say a Ferrari 458) but this is accurate with the real car. It drives a lot like the Assetto Corsa version actually. If both sims have come to the same conclusion then it's probably pretty close. I find the GT6 version has better throttle response and slightly better steering response. It's nothing at all like the hopeless attempt they made in GT5.

You don't find that it starts smoking the tires as soon as you go near the throttle? Much has been made of the clever suspension giving a soft ride whilst still getting the car to handle well, but I didn't really find this in GT5, the car seemed to be upset in the rear by mid-corner bumps constantly. And yeah, the understeer, damn! I might give it a revisit this afternoon, and be more patient with my driving style this time around, see how I go. I still don't think I'll be doing 1:16:20 around the Top Gear track but!

 

[Bigbazz]

You don't find that it starts smoking the tires as soon as you go near the throttle? Much has been made of the clever suspension giving a soft ride whilst still getting the car to handle well, but I didn't really find this in GT5, the car seemed to be upset in the rear by mid-corner bumps constantly. And yeah, the understeer, damn! I might give it a revisit this afternoon, and be more patient with my driving style this time around, see how I go. I still don't think I'll be doing 1:16:20 around the Top Gear track but!

It's completely planted in GT6 you can go very hard on the throttle, it's a different car to the GT5 version. I recently used the MP4-12c for the "rainmasters" event at Le Mans and Nordschleife in GT6 and it was really planted, infact it was so good at the Nordschleife I pulled a 40 second lead without pushing hard.

In comparison I used my NSX for the Spa event in the series and though I won I could barely keep the NSX on the road, couldn't get any power down, the MP4-12c on the other hand adapted perfectly and was really stable. It's understeery and that can make it feel a little "meh" but it's certaintly capable, it's nothing like it was in GT5.

 

[Chainsaw_Jack]

I just ran a bone stock Black edition with sports hard tires around the 'ring in 7:29. Which was the time to get the trophy in GT5 (with an 07 GTR). I didn't practice and only ran one lap to see if the car had been nerfed. I think the OP Is wrong. He probably experienced 'boost'.

 

[MCNAGTROC]

those tires you have pictured are the standard tire for the black edition in the game its also a run flat .the SpecV uses a older tire (potenza) which doesnt have quite as much grip as the dunlop.. the dunlop is a great tire on the GTR. Ive got 4 sets in my garage and they are good for a couple secs over the potenzas

 

[jlmcmillan1978]

I only just noticed that the tire used on the ZR1 is actually called the Pilot Sports 'Cup'. So perhaps these would be best represented by sports hards or sports mediums in the game after all.

 

[colj00]

Pardon my stupidity, but what's ''nerfed''?

means reduced

the track performance of (the GTR) has been reduced - nerfed

 

[BHRxRacer]

All the cars drive differently now in GT6. Understeer is so immense the fronts start overheating and locking up really quick.

means reduced

the track performance of (the GTR) has been reduced - nerfed

"weakened" is more accurate.

 

[MrGrado]

GTR? more like GTbaRge.

 

[Vegard]

Then why does the real one deliver best results when they're switched off..?

He is actually right about the computers. Have you heard of ATTESA E-TS.
A GT-R would be slower in most circumstances with traditional mechanical differentials, and a lot harder to drive fast.

 

[vass0131]

I found them to be ok however the HSV on the other hand wipes the floor with all but the top cars given the right set up.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

He is actually right about the computers. Have you heard of ATTESA E-TS.
A GT-R would be slower in most circumstances with traditional mechanical differentials, and a lot harder to drive fast.

Oh, I know enough of ATTESA-ETS, Super HICAS and other fancy letter combinations.. To a point that IRL, good drivers turn them off or circumvent them because these systems slow them down with their unpredictable amount of input.