Official GTP Online Racing Discussion Thread

[Zuel]

I was looking through the club section and I noticed S.N.A.I.L has three to four pages for one series show casing a number of series. Instead of have a number of pages for a series show casing the different type of racing they are promoting all could information could be in one place.

 

[FlyingFox]

I'm just wondering what Jordan will make of all of this and is he going to poke his nose in for a look and perhaps comment on where GTP is going?

The thread is now 16 pages old and I believe he needs to say something about it.

 

[Wardez]

I'm just wondering what Jordan will make of all of this and is he going to poke his nose in for a look and perhaps comment on where GTP is going?

The thread is now 16 pages old and I believe he needs to say something about it.

No worries, he's definitely taking in the thread. But I definitely don't think he needs to pop in to say something, nah.

But it's also not like he's gonna take every good idea and implement it. The thread's about looking at what we want and comparing it to what's possible and reasonable.

 

[JohnScoonsBeard]

I've updated the basic system of how series could be registered. There are some fields relating to GT5 options that could be added. Not sure how much customisation of the view there is.

You should all be able to post a race or event into this form and have that data displayed in the spreadsheet further below. I assume one needs a Google account first (tested and you don't).

I've added a field for a URL to be put in with the Link on the GTP forum.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1BDes36K-OGtILYzKsl5COr72_wpPgLygQh2bVMAOVI4/viewform

Then

All series would be available here - edited link - should show a spreadsheet that can be filtered by the user to look for type of race as desired.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiNIxAimLSZ3dHFob2ZvVzMtM0QyaWlvajE0ZlpSMkE&usp=sharing

 

[kcheeb]

Also, we need a mod sticky post outlining what people can and can't do with their posts as far as making multiple-post OP's, putting special characters in the thread title, rules about bumping, going off topic, what types of posts besides just racing series threads are appropriate/allowed, etc.

Just to make it clear, and so mod's have less work to do having to go in and regulate.

Not sure I like where you seem to be taking this.

Started out as a way to make things easier for people to find a series they'd like to race in and have a framework for people that are just starting up a new series and would like a good starting point. Both things that needed help.

Seems things have turned into a I don't like how series A does it, I prefer my way and it should be the standard and we're going to get the mods to set up rules so they can enforce it.

There are already rules about double posting and bumping threads. And how do you define what's off topic in the Groups and Clubs section? Seems to me almost anything the Club Members want to talk about is On topic.

How is an A different than a ◆? Really?

How do multiple-post OP's negatively affect anything or anyone? You talk about it being clutter, try having the League Intro, Results History and Car/Track History all in one post, that'll clutter things up in a heartbeat.

It really feels like you're trying to take away any style that has been developed or could be developed and have everyone use a cookie cutter for THEIR threads

 

[Furinkazen]

Posting rules are already known. That's one thing I don't think needs revision.

 

[Zuel]

I've updated the basic system of how series could be registered. There are some fields relating to GT5 options that could be added. Not sure how much customisation of the view there is.

You should all be able to post a race or event into this form and have that data displayed in the spreadsheet further below. I assume one needs a Google account first (tested and you don't).

I've added a field for a URL to be put in with the Link on the GTP forum.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1BDes36K-OGtILYzKsl5COr72_wpPgLygQh2bVMAOVI4/viewform

Then

All series would be available here - edited link - should show a spreadsheet that can be filtered by the user to look for type of race as desired.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiNIxAimLSZ3dHFob2ZvVzMtM0QyaWlvajE0ZlpSMkE&usp=sharing

The same type of form can be added into the threads, using Google DOCs may get a little daunting as to the number of windows that will open, though I clearly see what you’re doing. I built pages a long time ago, the day of “AOL” . I remember using a code to build forms, enter blocks etc. within the site while sending the entries to the respective locations. I’m sure there is a code of this fashion available that can be used though. It’s the same bases as Google docs but much cleaner along with retaining the information within the thread or site.

 

[JohnScoonsBeard]

Cool Zuel. I'm really just trying to show how easy it is to set something up. I've probably spent no more than an hour and a half on it. That could work if everyone submitted their data to it when creating an event, series, shuffle race. Sure it could be beautified and maybe set up within the GTP data realm by people a lot more skilled than I am but even that as it is would work as a tool, both checklist to help organiser and in particular for browsing all series/one offs.

 

[zer05ive]

I was looking through the club section and I noticed S.N.A.I.L has three to four pages for one series show casing a number of series. Instead of have a number of pages for a series show casing the different type of racing they are promoting all could information could be in one place.

The reason we have separate threads is because each one focuses on completely different events. They all race on different days, at different times, with different cars, with different formats, and different regulations. And all of these components are managed by different race directors. Simply put, they are completely different and "independently owned and operated" threads. It wouldn't make sense to try to manage all of that activity in one thread. If we did, the only possible outcome would be complete chaos and utter confusion.

That being said, I like to point out that as long as this thread (or any new one) keeps this post as it's core mission, then we'll all be the better for it. However, some recent posts seem to be taking on "moderator territory" which I don't think is in the best interest of what we're trying to accomplish here.

I've updated the basic system of how series could be registered. There are some fields relating to GT5 options that could be added. Not sure how much customisation of the view there is.

You should all be able to post a race or event into this form and have that data displayed in the spreadsheet further below. I assume one needs a Google account first (tested and you don't).

I've added a field for a URL to be put in with the Link on the GTP forum.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1BDes36K-OGtILYzKsl5COr72_wpPgLygQh2bVMAOVI4/viewform

Then

All series would be available here - edited link - should show a spreadsheet that can be filtered by the user to look for type of race as desired.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiNIxAimLSZ3dHFob2ZvVzMtM0QyaWlvajE0ZlpSMkE&usp=sharing

Nicely done! 👍

 

[Furinkazen]

Agreed wholeheartedly. 👍

 

[Wardez]

Not sure I like where you seem to be taking this.

Started out as a way to make things easier for people to find a series they'd like to race in and have a framework for people that are just starting up a new series and would like a good starting point. Both things that needed help.

Seems things have turned into a I don't like how series A does it, I prefer my way and it should be the standard and we're going to get the mods to set up rules so they can enforce it.

There are already rules about double posting and bumping threads. And how do you define what's off topic in the Groups and Clubs section? Seems to me almost anything the Club Members want to talk about is On topic.

How is an A different than a ◆? Really?

How do multiple-post OP's negatively affect anything or anyone? You talk about it being clutter, try having the League Intro, Results History and Car/Track History all in one post, that'll clutter things up in a heartbeat.

It really feels like you're trying to take away any style that has been developed or could be developed and have everyone use a cookie cutter for THEIR threads

You got me all wrong on this bud! Sorry if it came off that way, let me just address what your concerns are here, 'cause you really have no reason to worry.

Firstly, yes one of the most important and main aspects of this thread is to come up with ways to help the racers, but i think it's almost as important to help the organizers as well. But this is in no way about only letting organizers run things a certain way that's different from the rules in place now. All I'm saying is that we should have any easy reference post to point at including all the rules written up and easy to read. I may be mistaken, but there's currently nothing like that now, and the only time we find out about the rules is when mods have to act on our threads.

For example, one thing that could've saved face for me to know about was having a language other than English in the thread title, which i assumed was ok. I had some Japanese in an old thread title and i was told by a mod it needed to be removed. Totally cool with it, just didn't figure it was a problem. If we had a place where that rule was concrete, like a nice comprehensive thread guide For, it could save a lot of people, both mods and members, some time and work.

I totally agree that people in CLubs & Leagues can talk about whatever they want, that's the spirit of the section. But you know there's two different sets of rules for each section, here in "Racing Series" people aren't allowed to turn threads into off topic jaunts after a series is over as far as I understand things. This should be addressed so people don't get caught out. Also, special characters are sllowed in C&L and I'm totally fine with that too!

But you're assuming a lot negatively, when i talked how i think we should have a rule about making multiple post OP's i meant so it could be clear that people are allowed to do it. They are a great way for people with lots and lots of info to sort it out and make editable more easily. I only threw in the bit about me not personally liking that as opinion, I'll be damned if I'm gonna suggest making it a rule not to allow people the freedom to do so. I just like to keep my own threads as condensed as possible.

And btw, trust me, I haven't just "tried" making huge series OP's in one post, i have and it's more than easy enough to manage using suite text editing tools, but of course, not everyone should have to use those tools, it's just what I prefer personally.

Saying something is allowed, is also a rule, rules don't just have to be things you can't do.

Posting rules are already known. That's one thing I don't think needs revision.

Yeah, but can you point me to where this is set in stone and i could reference it easily right now?

 

[kcheeb]

You got me all wrong on this bud! Sorry if it came off that way, let me just address what your concerns are here, 'cause you really have no reason to worry.

Firstly, yes one of the most important and main aspects of this thread is to come up with ways to help the racers, but i think it's almost as important to help the organizers as well. But this is in no way about only letting organizers run things a certain way that's different from the rules in place now. All I'm saying is that we should have any easy reference post to point at including all the rules written up and easy to read. I may be mistaken, but there's currently nothing like that now, and the only time we find out about the rules is when mods have to act on our threads.

For example, one thing that could've saved face for me to know about was having a language other than English in the thread title, which i assumed was ok. I had some Japanese in an old thread title and i was told by a mod it needed to be removed. Totally cool with it, just didn't figure it was a problem. If we had a place where that rule was concrete, like a nice comprehensive thread guide For, it could save a lot of people, both mods and members, some time and work.

I totally agree that people in CLubs & Leagues can talk about whatever they want, that's the spirit of the section. But you know there's two different sets of rules for each section, here in "Racing Series" people aren't allowed to turn threads into off topic jaunts after a series is over as far as I understand things. This should be addressed so people don't get caught out. Also, special characters are sllowed in C&L and I'm totally fine with that too!

But you're assuming a lot negatively, when i talked how i think we should have a rule about making multiple post OP's i meant so it could be clear that people are allowed to do it. They are a great way for people with lots and lots of info to sort it out and make editable more easily. I only threw in the bit about me not personally liking that as opinion, I'll be damned if I'm gonna suggest making it a rule not to allow people the freedom to do so. I just like to keep my own threads as condensed as possible.

And btw, trust me, I haven't just "tried" making huge series OP's in one post, i have and it's more than easy enough to manage using suite text editing tools, but of course, not everyone should have to use those tools, it's just what I prefer personally.

Saying something is allowed, is also a rule, rules don't just have to be things you can't do.

That's good to know 👍

I suppose the reason I looked at it negatively is someone that is in control (to whatever degree) of the proposed new rule set(s) doesn't like something I like

One of the reasons I like the multiple post OP's is when someone has a question about rules, results, if a combo has been run, or whatever, I can easily link them back to the specific post that is relevant to their question. Rather than say it's in the first post, scroll till you find it ...

Yeah, but can you point me to where this is set in stone and i could reference it easily right now?

The Faq has most, if not all of what you listed.

 

[Zuel]

I already know why the S.N.A.I.L series on different pages, a lot of other series that run different formats of racing. I was noting if a series that is operating different formats of racing if it was possible to have all of them under one thread. I know it's possible to have a sub thread within a thread.

 

[Furinkazen]

I already know why the S.N.A.I.L series on different pages, a lot of other series that run different formats of racing. I was noting if a series that is operating different formats of racing if it was possible to have all of them under one thread. I know it's possible to have a sub thread within a thread.

Huh? Err if you have a different series you run a different thread anyway usually? FRL run ToCA and WSC, so they get different threads? Or am I misinterpreting what you are saying?

 

[R0ssingt0n]

Huh? Err if you have a different series you run a different thread anyway usually? FRL run ToCA and WSC, so they get different threads? Or am I misinterpreting what you are saying?

I read it that way too. If you combine two threads like that things will be so hard to follow.

 

[Zuel]

Huh? Err if you have a different series you run a different thread anyway usually? FRL run ToCA and WSC, so they get different threads? Or am I misinterpreting what you are saying?

I read it that way too. If you combine two threads like that things will be so hard to follow.

ONE series thread with sub threads within that ONE series thread reduces clutter. Example

United Sports Car Championship (Main body thread)
United Sports Car Championship feeder or development series (Sub thread)

If possible with the new software there is no point for a series to have a number of pages showing different type of racing that is ran under that series. All of the different types of racing that a series showcases can be found under ONE series thread with sub thread attached to the main series page. I've built pages before, having a sub thread within a thread would make thing a lot more cleaner. Trying to make things more inviting and not such a mess. Right now the series thread is a mess, to much information every where. One series having 7 to 12 sub thread floating around can be avoided.

 

[Furinkazen]

ONE series thread with sub threads within that ONE series thread reduces clutter. Example

United Sports Car Championship (Main body thread)
United Sports Car Championship feeder or development series (Sub thread)

If possible with the new software there is no point for a series to have a number of pages showing different type of racing that is ran under that series. All of the different types of racing that a series showcases can be found under ONE series thread with sub thread attached to the main series page. I've built pages before, having a sub thread within a thread would make thing a lot more cleaner. Trying to make things more inviting and not such a mess. Right now the series thread is a mess, to much information every where. One series having 7 to 12 sub thread floating around can be avoided.

Ahh like Organisation > Series Threads linked off it? Incidentally I was intending on doing that for GT6. Central FRL thread as a general discussion and members topic, and specific series threads off shoot from that.

 

[Zuel]

Ahh like Organisation > Series Threads linked off it? Incidentally I was intending on doing that for GT6. Central FRL thread as a general discussion and members topic, and specific series threads off shoot from that.

Yes open a sub thread within the window of the main thread, instead of having to jump around. Less clutter used, less data used over the server a lot cleaner. Just as when you click a link on a front page, the info stays in that window. No point of leaving that series thread to find their other racing format when everything is right there. Basically the same idea that Wardez has for the series bar, the same thing can be done in the organizers series thread.

 

[Furinkazen]

Yes open a sub thread within the window of the main thread, instead of having to jump around. Less clutter used, less data used over the server a lot cleaner.

Not a fan of that idea, better to have threads organised.

I have maintained, but its not been added to the OP still, that racing groups get there own thread in a "Clubs" section. So CRAP get option of one, FRL get one, PURE get one, SNAIL get one and so on..

 

[Zuel]

Not a fan of that idea, better to have threads organised.

I have maintained, but its not been added to the OP still, that racing groups get there own thread in a "Clubs" section. So CRAP get option of one, FRL get one, PURE get one, SNAIL get one and so on..

Apparently I didn’t make myself clear. For example let take SNAIL, at the moment I’ve counted 4 different type of racing they showcase floating around on different threads which is fine. Though it would be more seamless and convent if you could find all the racing they showcase under one series thread. Example, I’m a new member and I’m looking to race on-line with others in a series. I come across a series that looks inviting; I take a look around and like what I see. I leave the page and notice that the same series is show casing another format of racing; I leave the page and yet see another race format held by the same series. I think to myself “Why couldn’t this series have links to all the race formats they host besides jumping from page to page. It would be more convent to see all the type of race formats they host, click one the one I like and there I go. All of this clicking and jumping from page to page is getting old fast. I’m going to find another form that has a better organized racing thread for the series.” We just lost a new member that is willing to race in an series.

 

[Furinkazen]

Though it would be more seamless and convent if you could find all the racing they showcase under one series thread.

Err....

I have maintained, but its not been added to the OP still, that racing groups get there own thread in a "Clubs" section. So CRAP get option of one, FRL get one, PURE get one, SNAIL get one and so on..

Example, I’m a new member and I’m looking to race on-line with others in a series. I come across a series that looks inviting; I take a look around and like what I see. I leave the page and notice that the same series is show casing another format of racing; I leave the page and yet see another race format held by the same series. I think to myself “Why couldn’t this series have links to all the race formats they host besides jumping from page to page. It would be more convent to see all the type of race formats they host, click one the one I like and there I go. All of this clicking and jumping from page to page is getting old fast. I’m going to find another form that has a better organized racing thread for the series.” We just lost a new member.

Because when you have a multitude of regulations, championships, and formats it is totally impractical to combine them. As I said, a main club topic is a good idea.

Also a a race series does not hold different series. It's the same host, not series. So you got your definition a little wrong. Example: Wardez hosts GATE and CALM, GATE doesn't host calm.

As I said but you didn't appear to understand, one central club topic. Example:

FRL Furi Race Leagues

League Info

Couple Ground Rules

Members

List of championships, with links, leading to championships​

.


How hard is that? It's user friendly, easy, and everything is mapped out. Also GTP has a search function.

 

[R0ssingt0n]

By that logic all "independent" series (people who only run 1 series) should be gathered up and put into one thread then? I think you're just finding too much of a problem over nothing to be honest.

This was in response to Zuel by the way. Furi's post wasn't there when i started writing this

 

[Furinkazen]

And a large majority of people, including potential new hosts, will be those independent series hosts.

 

[kcheeb]

Apparently I didn’t make myself clear. For example let take SNAIL, at the moment I’ve counted 4 different type of racing they showcase floating around on different threads which is fine. Though it would be more seamless and convent if you could find all the racing they showcase under one series thread. Example, I’m a new member and I’m looking to race on-line with others in a series. I come across a series that looks inviting; I take a look around and like what I see. I leave the page and notice that the same series is show casing another format of racing; I leave the page and yet see another race format held by the same series. I think to myself “Why couldn’t this series have links to all the race formats they host besides jumping from page to page. It would be more convent to see all the type of race formats they host, click one the one I like and there I go. All of this clicking and jumping from page to page is getting old fast. I’m going to find another form that has a better organized racing thread for the series.” We just lost a new member that is willing to race in an series.

I know you're using S.N.A.I.L. as an example, but if you'd read one of the first sentences in the op, you'd have found a link to a post that contains just what you're asking for

 

[HP]

Apparently I didn’t make myself clear. For example let take SNAIL, at the moment I’ve counted 4 different type of racing they showcase floating around on different threads which is fine. Though it would be more seamless and convent if you could find all the racing they showcase under one series thread. Example, I’m a new member and I’m looking to race on-line with others in a series. I come across a series that looks inviting; I take a look around and like what I see. I leave the page and notice that the same series is show casing another format of racing; I leave the page and yet see another race format held by the same series. I think to myself “Why couldn’t this series have links to all the race formats they host besides jumping from page to page. It would be more convent to see all the type of race formats they host, click one the one I like and there I go. All of this clicking and jumping from page to page is getting old fast. I’m going to find another form that has a better organized racing thread for the series.” We just lost a new member that is willing to race in an series.

This is one reason I moved CRAP to our own forum and it gave me the ability to structure the forum which is something that GTP did not allow me to do simply because I did not have the access to do so.

Yes we've had the odd teething problem but that was expected.

What would be perfect on GTP is if the major groups had their own sub forum with the appropriate powers of moderation given to the 'owners' of said groups/series so they can better structure their groups and events.

This could be monitored by one of the super mods to ensure it runs smoothly.

That way a member knows that in any specific sub-forum is the content that they are looking for and it keeps everything neat and tidy.

Owner powers would be limited to their own group and would not extend past it, outside of their section they'd be just another member but within it they'd be in charge whilst ultimately being accountable for the groups, and their own, conduct to GTP staff.

I can assign such powers and sub-forums on my forum so I'm confident that it's possible on gtp too 👍

 

[Zuel]

FRL Furi Race Leagues

League Info

Couple Ground Rules

Members

List of championships, with links, leading to championships​

.


How hard is that? It's user friendly, easy, and everything is mapped out. Also GTP has a search function.

You're still not seeing what I'm getting across though some have already and clearly stated it. I sorry though you must stop looking at theOLD format of the threads and how they are done. The way you suggest and other will still open other windows to these threads which just adds more threads floating around and opening unneeded windows. If I'm a new member who is looking to race in a series and I found one that held more than one format. I click one of those links and it take me to that page. I look around to see what they got to offer. I go back to the top of the page to click one of the other links. UH, WHAT?! The links aren't here as they are on the main page. WHY?! Really I got to close this window just to get back to the main series page?, that's lame. Thought to self "WOW it could have been done a lot better" I would rather see that series main page showcasing their main race series then with links that would take me to of the others they host. Click that link and stay on that window I opened. I don't want to have to close window after window just to get back to where I started as its done now. I will be points because of all the clutter. I would rather see this.

United Sports Car Championship
Other series links
Gran Touring-Honda Integra CUP-Ferrari CUP-Gran Sport
Main series information​

Look over info want to see what the other racing format have to offer. I click one of the links, Grands Sport. Then I'll see this.

United Sports Car Championship
Grand Sport
Gran Touring-Honda Integra CUP-Ferrari CUP-Gran Sport​

The area that say the same besides the series header are the headers and links to send you to back to the main page or to one of the other race formats. The only that will change is the format header which states that format. And everything stays in the same window besides opening window after window. Yes the form has a search engine though 99% of the time a new member is going to look around before the even use the search function. and if you're not clear with you search it will pull up information that you're not even looking for.

If you feel that doing everything in bold is to difficult to do then I'm sorry. To me I see something every simple.

 

[polarbear345]

I think the object is more for the site's features, not how you or someone else makes a thread. May just be me, but I don't really think there is anything wrong right now. Maybe some added search functions for series, more labels, and maybe moving spot races to a different location. Other than that I think we're good.

Zuel, I think you're trying to make a revolution happen, we are after more of a evolution I believe.

 

[Wardez]

Yeah Zuel, you have some great ideas for a whole new platform, i think you and Pappaclart could do something great together. Outside GTP i mean.

 

[polarbear345]

I think Zuel's idea would just confuse new people. If there are 4 series using one thread, people will be confused when others are asking questions about different series in the same thread. Would get really confusing really fast

 

[Wardez]

Actually, I don't think confusion's the obstacle, but yeah, still wouldn't work here.