Online And Offline Grip/Physics Differences: Possible Online Solution

ColouredBadger

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ColouredBadger
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before somewhere and I apologise if it has.

After I seen the "Pleasantly Surprised By GT Physics IRL" thread it got me thinking about how PD try to replicate the real life physics in-game for single player (offline) modes and how accurate they might be. This in turn got me thinking about how the physics and grip levels massively change when playing online compared to offline. I have done some testing at Silverstone and compared my lap times to the real life 2014 Toyota TS040's qualifying time to try and find the most realistic setting for online racing. The setting I am talking about is of course the 'Grip Reduction on Wet Track/Track Edge'.

Firstly I had to try and match the Real Life time in a Single Player Free Run to see how close the times would be. My Toyota TS030 was set to 530 Bhp and 915Kg weight, these are the real life specs of the TS030. I drove with Race Medium Tyres as I feel these are the most realistic of the tyre compounds. Here are my comparison times.

Real Life Time: 1:42.774
Offline in GT6: 1:43.546

I think if I was a slightly better driver and had some slipstream from other classes on track then I would be able to match the 1:42.774. I know a couple of people in my racing group that could equal that time as a standalone lap though so I was satisfied with the results and the 0.8 second deficit.


This then made me think about which was the most realistic Grip Setting when you go to race online, and which you should choose when setting up a lobby for friends or public. I found some interesting results.

Online REAL Grip Reduction: 1:44.202
Online LOW Grip Reduction: 1:43.508

The REAL setting was very slippy and lacked much of the feeling through my wheel and I struggled to get the car to break a 1:44 lap time. This was nearly 2 seconds slower than real life so I wasn't convinced this was the best setting to use. But as you can see, my times when on the LOW setting are almost identical to my offline times. The overall grip is much better and the car handled better and turned more smoothly without excess 'skidding', granting a more authentic feeling and matching the Offline physics.

This has made me come to the conclusion that when racing online you should use the LOW Grip Reduction settings and not the REAL settings as these best replicates PD's hard work with single player physics.


I wanted to share my findings with GT Planet for anyone who might host lobbies themselves or people that struggle with the transition between Offline and Online as I have lost members from my casual racing group who couldn't get used to the weird transition between single player and multiplayer physics.

I know this is all down to personal preference when hosting lobbies. I just hope this might sway some judgement or at least spark a debate about this topic to which you think is best. I do however recommend trying this out for yourself before saying which is better. :cheers:
 
If you set your cars up online, you won't be sliding around everywhere. I've made so many offline setups that I thought were great and they would blow online. Slippery, brakes locking when they went offline, etc., etc. Have been setting cars up online for the past half year and it is not a problem anymore. The online setups are way faster offline, too. Any seasonal I decide to do, I tune the car online first and make tweaks while I'm doing the seasonal.

Seems to me that there is just far more grip offline and it exposes the faults in the tune more so online.

Best way to tune is do it online with tire wear set to normal and track edge set real.

I don't really play offline, so when I do, the grip feels like a joke and that's why I think they just try to make offline easier, because they know far more people play solely single play/offline connected to PD/whatever we want to call it.

Online feels more realistic. I dont play in rooms with tire wear off because you get stupid grip and everyone can save the car so much easier. Better competition and more fun with it off. Tuning offline ends up with a car that understeers like a bastafd online. Every little fault you notice offline in the tune is exaggerated online. But in reality, I think it is just the grip that is thoroughly exaggerated offline. I have no issues with cars doing anything worse offline, than online if that's where I tuned them.

Offline times are usually a good 1-3 seconds faster around a normal circuit on the same tire compound.

This is just what I've noticed from mainly playing online for quite a while at this point. Interested to see other opinions because this is my biggest issue with GT6.

It would be great if we could select to use online physics in offline mode. Tire wear in single player arcade, etc. so we don't have to open or go into lobby every time we want to dial a car in to the max.

I'm...surprised people stop playing with you because of the physics difference, though... Kinda lame.
 
My serie is on REAL grip and it's an endurance one; we race on race hards.

On hard compounds the difference is not as big as on soft ones so i would suggest you to try some test online with real grip; remember that fuel load matters online and on real grip! Most of the fastest laps on our races are made with not new tyres but with little fuel on; dunno how much of a difference it can make on a LMP, but on gt300 it matters.

Offline instead doesn't take into account, fuel, tyre degradation, and another VERY important thing: TRACK TEMPERATURE AND CONDITIONS. No i do not mean the wetness of the track, just the temperature! Racing with more or less clouds and at different times of the day makes a big difference in lap times when you race on real online.
 
If you set your cars up online, you won't be sliding around everywhere. I've made so many offline setups that I thought were great and they would blow online. Slippery, brakes locking when they went offline, etc., etc. Have been setting cars up online for the past half year and it is not a problem anymore. The online setups are way faster offline, too. Any seasonal I decide to do, I tune the car online first and make tweaks while I'm doing the seasonal.

Seems to me that there is just far more grip offline and it exposes the faults in the tune more so online.

Best way to tune is do it online with tire wear set to normal and track edge set real.

I don't really play offline, so when I do, the grip feels like a joke and that's why I think they just try to make offline easier, because they know far more people play solely single play/offline connected to PD/whatever we want to call it.

Online feels more realistic. I dont play in rooms with tire wear off because you get stupid grip and everyone can save the car so much easier. Better competition and more fun with it off. Tuning offline ends up with a car that understeers like a bastafd online. Every little fault you notice offline in the tune is exaggerated online. But in reality, I think it is just the grip that is thoroughly exaggerated offline. I have no issues with cars doing anything worse offline, than online if that's where I tuned them.

Offline times are usually a good 1-3 seconds faster around a normal circuit on the same tire compound.

This is just what I've noticed from mainly playing online for quite a while at this point. Interested to see other opinions because this is my biggest issue with GT6.

It would be great if we could select to use online physics in offline mode. Tire wear in single player arcade, etc. so we don't have to open or go into lobby every time we want to dial a car in to the max.

I'm...surprised people stop playing with you because of the physics difference, though... Kinda lame.

I agree. Normally I use full sim settings when online. Tyre wear, weather change, damage etc, and I always set my cars up online as the only time I race is with my friends and group members. This was just an experiment to see what came about and the Offline and LOW settings seem to be closest to the real time in the same car (nearly). I personally feel that the Low settings and offline physics have their place in the game, and so does SRF when used with the right cars. For me this finding makes the game closer to real life timings, maybe not feeling.
I remember someone on here saying about the real LMP1 cars doing 200km/h through the Porsche Curves at Le Sarthe but they couldn't replicate it in-game because there wasn't enough grip. I have done over 200km/h through the first part of that section with these settings, so maybe it makes it closer to real life?

@azidahaka - As I said above to 332i. I normally do everything on sim settings and have done right from the GT5 days so the above paragraph applies. :D


I know a lot of people struggle with the difference between the two and sometimes avoid online play because of it, as well as the obvious reasons. So if this experiment will get more people to play online and join more races online then it can't be a bad thing surely? And they can do so without struggling too much with physics changes and is ideal for people who don't want to be so hardcore with it and just have fun racing.

I am however going to do some more testing with full weather, tyre and fuel simulation and see how that feels. I'm just not convinced that the "real" setting really is the real setting in this particular instance.
 
I hope more people comment as this is something that seriously needs to be addressed. I have never noticed a difference in lap times given ambient temps, overcast, etc. I've never had any difference in lap times or grip as the race went from day into night, then back to sunlight.

In real life...unless a track is green, temps during dry grip driving doesn't have a huge impact once tires are up to temp. It may take longer for them to heat up and they'll cool off quicker, but once hot it shouldn't be a problem until you stop IRL.

I think this is mostly due to the fact that the temp range is pretty narrow in GT6. I don't really think overcast affects much if anything and rain makes you faster until surface water rises above 15%. Which is ridiculous. Tires run cooler in wet weather and obviously once the tire meter icons start to glow, you begin losing grip. Seems you can push it through turns harder as the tires don't overheat as quickly. Which makes me think colder weather probably makes you faster as well online with tire deg set on. I'll pay attention to it more, but never noticed the temp difference. Haven't hit a track that I couldn't hit the times that I normally do.

I race the 97T a lot with the same guys and we never have an issue hitting the usual lap times until rain becomes an issue. Maybe it's a "if there is a will, there is a way" sort of thing...but I think the ambient affects are so screwed up that they've dialed them back to nearly nothing, other than heavy rain.

But even with road cars, I've never had any time consistency issues. I'd think they would be affected the most because they rely purely on mechanical grip.

I have 5000+ miles at the 24hr ring and have hosted so many rooms that went through day-night-day cycles that I'm sure I would have noticed it by now...

You can sort of race at night at apricot with the lighting there. The lotus has no headlights of course, so a few turns are more or less pitch black. One night I hit said turns correctly...probably merely due to muscle memory and I hit the same time I normally do. Low 58s on full fuel. I can do 57s in daylight when I'm on fire, but 99% of the time it's low 58s. So...I'm leaning towards the lack of sun and overcast weather more or less having no effect right now. The tires don't seem to degrade any faster when it is very sunny out or at a particular track in a region that gets very hot. Idk...

The biggest issue is the grip changes between modes, though. Any offline tuning I do...it's basically to get the spring rates correct and then it's off to a lobby room to dial in everything else. I notice that rebound adjustments makes a big difference in front traction when tuning online. There is always a sweet spot number. I find spring rates are crucial to get rid of that skippy/slidy sort of movement that happens online with an offline tune.

If you go into sport hard tires rooms, they're nearly always playing with tire deg set to off. They can say high and mighty that they use sport hards rah rah...but if they played with tire deg on...they wouldn't be using hards and acting hardcore. They feel worse than comfort tires do offline..which aren't too bad aside from the sidewall roll being super prevelant.

Pretty much everyone notices this grip/physics difference. I think that is why a lot of people run racing soft rooms on road cars. People get knocked for that...but to be honest, racing soft and sports soft races are some of the best racing I've ever had in gt6. I am usually off doing race cars, but...I have no shame in going into those rooms. I don't play gt because it is realistic lol, so if people want to use ridiculously soft tire compounds on cars they don't really need to, I don't mind. Good racing is more fun than attempting to make it a sim...sort of.

It's too bad that the lack of linear physics causes people to do things like using racing compounds on 500pp cars and such...but it is what it is.

Even with tire wear off and track edge set to real in both on and offline modes - offline is ridiculously faster. That's why all of the seasonal race car time trials are racing hards. Hards offline are faster than sorts online. THAT'S how big of a difference it makes.

The lotus time trial as spa was a massive indicator of this. I woke up that morning, checked gtp seasonal section and got all excited, thinking hell yeah...I do 142/3s offline at spa. This is going to be great. Logged onto ps3 and saw it was on racing hards. I was disappointed for a second. Hope it would be mediums. Then the first lap I turned was the exact same time area that I do online with racing soft on the 97T. Super high 144s in a blue moon/low 145s normally. Finished in top 100 with low 145. So...yeah. That solidified the fact in my mind that there is an insane difference in grip from on to offline. Hards are as faster or faster than their respective soft compound online.

It is like playing two different games, I swear. Annoying to say the least, which is why I stick to online until I have to restore a chassis or motor for half a mill lol. Except the seasonals races. If I'm not playing online, I'm just doing that, unless a particular seasonal comes along that I know I'll place well in.

If PD fixed this, I would be totally satisfied with GT6 as a simcade. I don't expect it to be perfect but this is too great of an issue. I wish there was a way to get a lot of us all over PD to to do one or the other in terms of grip loss no matter what settings are on or off. Like I said, even with tire and fuel deg set to off when you're playing online... still notably slower than offline times. It's stupid.

It only annoys me because of the tuning requiring such changes. I can find the grip online. I just don't want have online, offline, various compound setups, etc. You need two cars or a notebook to change this or that back to near it needs to be. A total joke.

Here's a another thing I notice majorly - very similar grip on the groove/racing line between on and offline. As soon as you leave groove - way less traction compared to going onto green pavement (ie not rubbered in) offline. Like...a staggering difference. That's when you start to realllly skip and slide online. At the same time, when you dial a car in really well for online use, the groove becomes extremely slippery. I had an fgta race two weekends ago and the groove was actually pulling me into the point that I was crossing over the track boundary through the senna S at Monza. The entry into it over the island...which the groove passes over...

dk. This gets very complicated to reverse engineer lol. I'd rather scream at PD.
 
We race 90 mins endurance and i can garantee that no-one ever sets their fastest lap at night with cold track, they always set it at warm track and with little fuel... also the track temperature do affect grip. This after 2 and hal series for a total of around 20 races on 90 mins with on average 10 to 12 people on track.

all drivers say that on sunshine track is faster and grippier, and that tires last less then at night.

obviously all is Online based.
 
This is becoming derived from the original point. I agree with many of the points made, and I have noticed that you are faster on a half empty fuel tank and on scrubbed tyres (8 or 9 life). My original point though is the grip modes, not what the game does when just racing in said modes.

I've done some further testing with the Low and Real grip reduction settings and it seems to be better with the Low settings. The tyre and fuel depletion works in exactly the same way, so does the way the surface water affects the grip levels in the same intervals. You just have more grip overall and it feels like the offline experience and you seem to have more control of the cars and that is what makes you faster, the fact that you feel the car better. The setup has nothing to do with this test as I have set the tunes for Real settings and they worked the same in Low settings, just with more overall grip and feel.

I think that if you could get a group to do longer races in these settings you could do everything you want to do with the single player with no real difference between the two. You'd even be able to avoid the stupid AI. My Casual Racing Group do 60+ minute races and have always used the Real settings but we will be trying out the Low settings over the next week or so to see which is better. We will continue to use the tyre depletion and weather settings and see what happens and to get a good test based on the casual player.

I have found in every test so far that the Low settings make the cars more controllable and if cars are more controllable then they will be raced closer when online and that could ultimately make races even closer for some people. And for the more casual group this would be ideal for them to making more accessible racing with other simulation aspects involved, such as damage, tyre wear etc.
 
azidahaka nearly said it all. The problem is not online, it is that offline lacks several options and is too easy.

Tire wear have a huge influence on lap times, I think it is between half a second and a full second per lap between each depletion grade (some extensive testing would need to be made to be accurate, but there's definitely a difference).
 
As I said. This isn't a discussion about the differences between online and offline, but the difference between the two possible grip settings online and which best replicates real life, assuming that offline's physics replicate real life accurately. I still say to everyone posting here to try out the two settings with Fuel/Tyre Wear turned on, Weather, whatever else you want to use. Only change the Grip Reduction settings and nothing else. :)
 
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The title :
Online And Offline Grip/Physics Differences: Possible Solution
It tells me the difference between online and offline is the topic. So if that's not your point, you may want to edit that.

So, if you want to ask what's the most realistic grip reduction setting, the answer is simple, for both online and offline : it's the real one. An easier setting doesn't mean it is more realistic : if you slide or get off track, you should consider improving your driving.
 
The title :
Online And Offline Grip/Physics Differences: Possible Solution
It tells me the difference between online and offline is the topic. So if that's not your point, you may want to edit that.

So, if you want to ask what's the most realistic grip reduction setting, the answer is simple, for both online and offline : it's the real one. An easier setting doesn't mean it is more realistic : if you slide or get off track, you should consider improving your driving.

If you read the OP my point is trying to make online feel like offline, hence the "solution" part of the title. If I can amend the title to reflect that then tell me how and I shall do so.

@GT_Alex74 is this a better title?
Online And Offline Grip/Physics Differences: Possible Online Solution
 
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Wow, time of day has always had a signifigant effect on times when at auto cross. Its a pain for the high boost turbo cars especially, as sun goes down they make more power and less grip.
 
Whenever I'm offline I always switch the grip to real in test drive from my garage. And offline races I use mainly stock cars with comfort softs or less, it also kinda compensates for the lack of no tire wear and low grip. As far as the races go, there is no option to change this, I think we can agree that the races grip is set on low with no tire wear with no mechanical damage, but visual damage is on and slipstream I think is on real or fast for offline races. I don't know why PD choose to do this and go this route of not letting us change this, to me it influences this same behavior online and causes discussions like this. Honestly, I feel PD needs to do away with these settings period, in online and offline and have one physics model with I guess online and offline slightly different due to internet connections. Grip needs to be on real on all modes, slipstream needs to be on real on all modes, damage should at least be on light on all modes and visual damage can remain the same with the option to turn it off and on as one wishes, tire wear should be on on all modes without the option to change it.

The guys I drive with we never drive with low settings, I try not to even join rooms where the settings is on low, the event settings is the first thing I check when I enter a room. And when I do enter a room with settings on low, no tire wear, something just doesn't feel right and I can tell a difference. And like you said ColouredBadger in your post the cars seem more controllable when dealing with other real settings when grip is on low might be easier for casual players. This is what I'm feeling when I say I can tell the difference from the settings, the easier feeling, and as a veteran that something I personally don't want. But I get your point tho.
 
My observations.

Online:
Deg. off is faster/easier than Deg. on (any setting)
Midday is faster/easier than midnight.
Low is faster/easier than Real.

Offline is faster/easier than all best options above combined.


For me the instant lap time killer online is switching on Deg. (even just to 'normal')
Midday/midnight probably follows next.
Then low/real. (depending on track accuracy)
 
Whenever I'm offline I always switch the grip to real in test drive from my garage. And offline races I use mainly stock cars with comfort softs or less, it also kinda compensates for the lack of no tire wear and low grip. As far as the races go, there is no option to change this, I think we can agree that the races grip is set on low with no tire wear with no mechanical damage, but visual damage is on and slipstream I think is on real or fast for offline races. I don't know why PD choose to do this and go this route of not letting us change this, to me it influences this same behavior online and causes discussions like this. Honestly, I feel PD needs to do away with these settings period, in online and offline and have one physics model with I guess online and offline slightly different due to internet connections. Grip needs to be on real on all modes, slipstream needs to be on real on all modes, damage should at least be on light on all modes and visual damage can remain the same with the option to turn it off and on as one wishes, tire wear should be on on all modes without the option to change it.

The guys I drive with we never drive with low settings, I try not to even join rooms where the settings is on low, the event settings is the first thing I check when I enter a room. And when I do enter a room with settings on low, no tire wear, something just doesn't feel right and I can tell a difference. And like you said ColouredBadger in your post the cars seem more controllable when dealing with other real settings when grip is on low might be easier for casual players. This is what I'm feeling when I say I can tell the difference from the settings, the easier feeling, and as a veteran that something I personally don't want. But I get your point tho.

This is my main point though. The Low settings online are closer to real life times of the TS040 than the Real settings online and for me personally making them more realistic, or at least more accurate. The Low setting online seems to be replicating the offline times (set to Real offline) almost identically but it is now online instead. There is now Tyre Wear, Damage and weather change coming into play, which makes it essentially how offline should be (in my eyes). Doing this eliminates any offline accountability (no tyre wear, weather etc) as it is solely online play and is judged in the same way as the Real Settings counterpart.

This is essentially what I have found so far in terms of grip levels;

Offline Low = Too Grippy
Offline Real = Online Low
Online Real = Too Slippy

This is where I am questioning if "Real" really is the most realistic setting you can go on when playing online. I would rarely play in a lobby that doesn't have tyre wear or lacking some of the other sim aspects but this grip thing seems to be niggling at me and to which really is the most realistic one to use. All because of the times I have done and how they change compared to the real life counterpart, and I wouldn't consider myself as a sluggish driver. If the real life car can do a time that is 1:42.774 then they have to be achieving a certain speed to get that lap time. If the Low online settings (Real offline settings) makes you match the real life speeds of the car during turns and makes similar lap times then why is it not the most realistic setting to use? Baring in mind that this is with tyre wear and weather changeability.
 
Well I think the lap times are not that much effected by grip on real or low, I think it's more of a online offline thing. (Unless)- It says, it's the amount of grip lost when driving on wet roads or the outer edges of the track, on low the amount of grip lost will be less than real life, and on real, the road will be slippery in the wet and easy to lose grip on the outer edges of the track, meaning off the racing line and or two or all tires in the dirt. Now that's where lap times can come in to play, on low you can be faster because you don't really lose grip if you touch the dirt or get out of the racing line, on real if you touch the dirt you are forced to ease off so your tires can clean off thus effecting your lap time, and that goes for on or offline.
 
If you read the OP my point is trying to make online feel like offline, hence the "solution" part of the title. If I can amend the title to reflect that then tell me how and I shall do so.

Online settings to make it feel like Offline
  • Turn Tyre wear Off Online is the simple answer

No matter if you set offline track settings to Real or Low, GT6 Offline does not take into consideration Fuel weight and Tyre wear (except Enduro in A spec). Online having tyre wear on (V-Fast, Fast or Normal) the car will feel different to Offline as Online takes into account the weight of fuel and tyre wear.

Example Online Tyre wear on: It will take you a few laps to get your best lap as the tyre's warm up and the fuel depletes

Tyre wear Off Online/Offline: You should be able to get your optimal lap on your 1st lap. Which gives the sense of more grip as the tyre's are at optimal performance straight away.

This is my main point though. The Low settings online are closer to real life times of the TS040 than the Real settings online and for me personally making them more realistic, or at least more accurate.

Going of what makes your lap times close to real life times is a no for testing in my mind unless I have drove that car around the specific track at racing pace, there is to much to take into consideration and personally I have not driven a TSO4O so I could not say what it feels like and if GT6 represents it well.

Edit: But it fun to try and reach or beat the times set by real cars at real tracks :)
 
I think the OP draws its conclusions from false assumptions.

The Toyota TS030 in the game is from 2012.
In 2012, the Toyota achieved the following lap times at Silverstone: 1:44.441 (Q), 1:44.059 (R)

Which basically means that suddenly, using your own logic, the "real" grip setting online is the most accurate.
 
We race 90 mins endurance and i can garantee that no-one ever sets their fastest lap at night with cold track, they always set it at warm track and with little fuel... also the track temperature do affect grip. This after 2 and hal series for a total of around 20 races on 90 mins with on average 10 to 12 people on track.

all drivers say that on sunshine track is faster and grippier, and that tires last less then at night.

obviously all is Online based.
Interesting. Yeah..I've done a few series as well... I guess that's a lot of track time? Idk lol. But anyways, I've put over 50k miles into GT6 and haven't noticed. Guess I'll do some testing today.

I'm going to see the best I can do on tracks that have both weather variable and the regular track where everything is a constant and report back. Sounds like I am probably wrong.
 
Well I think the lap times are not that much effected by grip on real or low, I think it's more of a online offline thing. (Unless)- It says, it's the amount of grip lost when driving on wet roads or the outer edges of the track, on low the amount of grip lost will be less than real life, and on real, the road will be slippery in the wet and easy to lose grip on the outer edges of the track, meaning off the racing line and or two or all tires in the dirt. Now that's where lap times can come in to play, on low you can be faster because you don't really lose grip if you touch the dirt or get out of the racing line, on real if you touch the dirt you are forced to ease off so your tires can clean off thus effecting your lap time, and that goes for on or offline.

I'm not running off the track. :P . This setting does change the track grip levels too and the Low settings do seem to make the cars work the same way as they do offline but with the added functions of tyre wear and things. I definitely think it's a good way of making the game feel 'even' throughout, especially as I know people (including me) don't like the fact that there are 2 or 3 different physics models in the game. We wouldn't need threads like this if PD did the job properly and made one solid model for all. lol


Online settings to make it feel like Offline
  • Turn Tyre wear Off Online is the simple answer

No matter if you set offline track settings to Real or Low, GT6 Offline does not take into consideration Fuel weight and Tyre wear (except Enduro in A spec). Online having tyre wear on (V-Fast, Fast or Normal) the car will feel different to Offline as Online takes into account the weight of fuel and tyre wear.

Example Online Tyre wear on: It will take you a few laps to get your best lap as the tyre's warm up and the fuel depletes

Tyre wear Off Online/Offline: You should be able to get your optimal lap on your 1st lap. Which gives the sense of more grip as the tyre's are at optimal performance straight away.



Going of what makes your lap times close to real life times is a no for testing in my mind unless I have drove that car around the specific track at racing pace, there is to much to take into consideration and personally I have not driven a TSO4O so I could not say what it feels like and if GT6 represents it well.

Edit: But it fun to try and reach or beat the times set by real cars at real tracks :)

The first part is irrelevant. It's not about making the online experience the exact same as offline. It's to make the feeling of the game the same as offline, closing the gap between the two, but with all of the features we want, i.e. tyre wear, damage. The gap is massive at the minute and the "Low" online settings seem to replicate the "Real" offline settings. I agree with your points though so please don't think otherwise. :) I am always trying to beat real life times, and my main one so far is the GT-R Nismo Nurburgring time. I'm 0.3 seconds faster than the lap record. To me that makes the game realistic.

I think the OP draws its conclusions from false assumptions.

The Toyota TS030 in the game is from 2012.
In 2012, the Toyota achieved the following lap times at Silverstone: 1:44.441 (Q), 1:44.059 (R)

Which basically means that suddenly, using your own logic, the "real" grip setting online is the most accurate.

I have the TS030 in GT6 set up to TS040 specifications and I went off the Qualifying time of said car. The 040 car is almost identical to the 030 apart from a few wing changes at the rear which changes downforce (which can be corrected in the in-game setups). I think it's a pretty close representation of the car compared to real life and the times reflect that. I will run again with the 2012 specs but GT6 has given us false regulations for this car so I'll have to find them and compare. Or test a different car. But it's hard to find a car with accurate specs. For example, the Pescarolo C60 Hybride '05 in GT6 has 950 BHP, but the real one had less than 650. You even buy it from the dealer with 639 BHP but it suddenly jumps to nearly 1000 for absolutely no reason. This is what makes it hard to test them against real life counterparts.

I still feel that the cars are too slippy online with the 'Real' setting. These cars (TS030) are high powered, high downforce cars and they shouldn't be sliding over the track at 150+ miles an hour, they should fly around corners being really sturdy. If you watch onboards of these cars or flyby's they look like they're running on rails. Maybe the real reason why this happens is that there isn't an accurate downforce or air resistance model in the game and that the 'Real' setting potentially is the most realistic, but the cars don't behave how they should in the environment they are in with the way the in-game downforce works and this is what makes the cars unstable and 'slippy'? But this is derived from the original point of closing the physics gap between Offline and Online. lol
 
The first part is irrelevant. It's not about making the online experience the exact same as offline. It's to make the feeling of the game the same as offline.

Sorry i've got a bit confused by the above quote.

You don't want it to be the exact same as offline but you want to try and make the feeling of the game the same as offline?

I think I get it ;), once you turn tyre wear on the physics of online changes from offline no matter if you have Real or Low track setting's. Due to GT6 taking into account Fuel weight, tyre temperature's and tyre wear.
To get similar lap times and car feeling online you need to run the fuel right down and have a new set of tyres that have a few laps in so they have warmed a bit to match the physics of offline.

Changing the track settings online from Real to Low will produce more grip as you take away the factor of dirt on the tyre's and minor track difference, which would produce more grip in the car but will not produce the same felling as offline, maybe similar lap times but not the same feeling.

Online with Tyre wear on the physics change as the fuel and tyre's change so you should feel a difference in physics from the first lap till the last lap as the fuel reduces and the tyre's wear.

Offline each lap the physics of the car will be the same as the physics do not evolve as there is no change with the fuel and tyre's which are set for no fuel and tyre's at optimal temperature.

So you will not get the same feeling online as offline with tyre wear on.
 
Interesting study
my personal point of view is the exact opposite
how to have the offline behaving as online with Grip Reduction on Wet Track/Track Edge set on real

as for the car you use the only valid point to compare is real time done with that car version having the same aero parts
as we have on our gt6 version
i was taught that that aero version is the one used in early races of the TS030
and then come in the settings, do you have the real settings of the real car ?
probably not and so how to really compare (supposed that air simulation on GT6 is like reality ..)

it will be a better comparison with one of the car real remake from one the tuners garage compare to that real car remake real time on the same track and same conditions (i really believe that track temp affects tire temp/grip model)
avoiding a car with aero part would be the best
if you can drive it like the guy who drove it in real ..

i had a look to that kaz/toyota TS driver story in japanese
he said that he was making the same time as with his real toyota
but again, probably the TS040 vs TS030, without knowing if it was off/online and the settings used

back on topic, you probably found how to equalize offline to online experience

but for peoples like me using the online settings as most realistic as it can be
(supposed that real grip option makes it close to real and not worse than real)
i look for a way to have the offline working the same way
so i can find a use for the graph analyzer

keep going on, it's interesting reading and experiments
 
I have the TS030 in GT6 set up to TS040 specifications and I went off the Qualifying time of said car. The 040 car is almost identical to the 030 apart from a few wing changes at the rear which changes downforce (which can be corrected in the in-game setups). I think it's a pretty close representation of the car compared to real life and the times reflect that. I will run again with the 2012 specs but GT6 has given us false regulations for this car so I'll have to find them and compare. Or test a different car. But it's hard to find a car with accurate specs. For example, the Pescarolo C60 Hybride '05 in GT6 has 950 BHP, but the real one had less than 650. You even buy it from the dealer with 639 BHP but it suddenly jumps to nearly 1000 for absolutely no reason. This is what makes it hard to test them against real life counterparts.

The TS040 is not comparable with the TS030. By regulation, the chassis is slimmer by 10cm, tyres are less wide, the weight is lower and the ERS is a lot more powerful than it was in the TS030 (and it drives all 4 wheels instead of just the rear wheels).

If you're looking for a comparison with reality, there's no way to transform the TS030 into the TS040 in GT6.
 
Sorry i've got a bit confused by the above quote.

You don't want it to be the exact same as offline but you want to try and make the feeling of the game the same as offline?

I think I get it ;), once you turn tyre wear on the physics of online changes from offline no matter if you have Real or Low track setting's. Due to GT6 taking into account Fuel weight, tyre temperature's and tyre wear.
To get similar lap times and car feeling online you need to run the fuel right down and have a new set of tyres that have a few laps in so they have warmed a bit to match the physics of offline.

Changing the track settings online from Real to Low will produce more grip as you take away the factor of dirt on the tyre's and minor track difference, which would produce more grip in the car but will not produce the same felling as offline, maybe similar lap times but not the same feeling.

Online with Tyre wear on the physics change as the fuel and tyre's change so you should feel a difference in physics from the first lap till the last lap as the fuel reduces and the tyre's wear.

Offline each lap the physics of the car will be the same as the physics do not evolve as there is no change with the fuel and tyre's which are set for no fuel and tyre's at optimal temperature.

So you will not get the same feeling online as offline with tyre wear on.

I can see where that's confusing :lol:. What I mean is, I'm trying to make the handling of the offline feel similar to online, but being able to use tyre wear, damage, weather and all the other things that aren't available in the offline game. It's essentially taking the feeling of offline and putting it into the online but keeping the online physics aspects. If that makes sense? lol. The best way I can describe what I mean is when PD did the 2.0 update in GT5 and made the online and offline physics the same, or very similar. The cars felt almost identical online as offline after 2.0. This is very much the same thing by using the Low settings, assuming that the offline 'real' physics are where they are the most realistic. I hope that explains it better?

You still get dirty tyres, they wear out, scrub off, overheat and lose grip where they should do, it's just a larger window in which the grip gives way. I highly recommend trying it out for yourself. Set up a lobby for yourself with "Real Grip Reduction" and use tyre/fuel depletion, slipstream on real, whatever you want to use. Do a few laps with that and then change only the Grip Reduction to Low and do the same. You will see what I mean. :D


i had a look to that kaz/toyota TS driver story in japanese
he said that he was making the same time as with his real toyota
but again, probably the TS040 vs TS030, without knowing if it was off/online and the settings used

I think it was an offline free run or time trail but I'm not 100% sure. I know I can't exactly replicate the times or the cars as I'm not a professional driver but this adds to my point. Assuming that the Japanese driver was driving offline with the 'Real' settings in place and he was matching the real life times in his own car, then the handling and physics offline are correct and realistic. Making the online behave in the same way as offline (The Low setting in this case) then this will again create the scenario where the same driver can recreate his real life times, suggesting that it is the realistic setting. This time however he has the added tyre and fuel wear to think about so times will drop off eventually. Obviously this is assuming he drove offline in the video.
 
The TS040 is not comparable with the TS030. By regulation, the chassis is slimmer by 10cm, tyres are less wide, the weight is lower and the ERS is a lot more powerful than it was in the TS030 (and it drives all 4 wheels instead of just the rear wheels).

If you're looking for a comparison with reality, there's no way to transform the TS030 into the TS040 in GT6.

Nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking. I refer you to Le_Manuz said about the WEC driver and my response to the point. :D
 
Are you sure about the reduction setting? I think that is only for wet weather and grass, rumble strips, kerbs, etc. But...now I'm wondering if the grip reduction setting impacts say...regular spa versus spa with variable weather like every other real world track in the game. I wonder if this reduction setting coincides with the track surface under all conditions on weather variable tracks...just because they're weather variable. Have some testing ahead of me. Lot of good ideas.
 
Are you sure about the reduction setting? I think that is only for wet weather and grass, rumble strips, kerbs, etc. But...now I'm wondering if the grip reduction setting impacts say...regular spa versus spa with variable weather like every other real world track in the game. I wonder if this reduction setting coincides with the track surface under all conditions on weather variable tracks...just because they're weather variable. Have some testing ahead of me. Lot of good ideas.

As far as I know 332i, yes. I have only tested weather variable tracks though so it'll definitely be interesting to see what comes about from your testing. I have noticed that tracks like Indianapolis Road Course are naturally very low in grip compared to others like Brands Hatch. I'm not sure if this is because of it being an old 'standard' track, or because it doesn't have the variables you mention.
 
Yeah, Indy really needs it's own setup I've found. Not many tracks like it in the game. The only bankings are on the oval and the rest of the circuit is flat as a board. I'll screw with it this afternoon after USGP P1.
 
I'm happy at what I been thought is getting verified and that I'm not the only one who thinks this and noticed these changes in physics happen when you run different online settings, grip low vs grip real, tire wear on vs off, slipstream real vs fast, and night vs daylight track temperatures. I remember I said to a host that changed the room from real grip to low grip that you know this changes the physics right. He typed in how does this change the physics. I just SMH and left the room because I didn't feel like typing all that in because he had the mics disabled.

This also explains why let's say the host changes the setting of a room from grip real to grip low, you'll notice the room has to reset, and if anybody is on the track they get kicked off the track while the room resets. This also happens with the time of day, slipstream, tire wear and I think a couple other settings.

And when I said earlier that the way PD did offline with no real settings it influences the same behavior online. Its probably the reason most rooms you go in have these settings off, maybe they are trying to replicate the feeling of offline. And when your someone like me that is so used to real settings and you go in a room with low settings, it just doesn't feel the same, and vice versa, and when someone that is used to settings on low and no tire wear come into a room with everything on real they be thinking something is wrong and wonder why they crashing in a certain spot that they never crashed at before or they try to go around they next corner fast after they just went in the dirt and wonder why they crashed again.
 
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