Pleasantly surprised by GT physics vs IRL

Especially the lambo, she had that tendency to go sideways on exit. scary car to drive fast.

I didn't find oversteer in the Gallardo, if anything, some understeer, especially on aggressive corner entry. Same with my foot flat to the floor on corner exit, but then again I wasn't allowed to turn the TCS off so that probably affected things.

I've also had track time in a Ferrari F430 and an Opel Manta Rally Car, as well as a passanger ride in an Alfa 8C with a professional driver who was absolutely hooning the car around. GT6 is still missing some weighty feeling of both the cars and gravity in genereal in my opinion. Brakes are usually a little too good and don't suffer from brake fade either, sounds are an issue of course, and I just feel there is something not right about the feedback through the wheel, most likely due to a lack of tyre model.

Not trying to dump on GT6 here, but trying to replicate my experiences in game doesn't touch the same feeling I experienced on the actual race track.

For a console game on old hardware, with over 1000 cars to replicate, the game does alright to give a "it's sort of like this" feeling, but they'll always be room for improvement.
 
By the time i got to drive the lambo, i was feeling pretty confident and was attempting to take corners faster with each lap. The gallardo has this tendency to slide laterally (hop) if i took the corners too fast. its like the whole car slides away. like a 4 wheel drift. ive definitely felt that in GT with the gallardo and murch.

There wasnt much chance of inducing over/understeer, as we wernt allowed to turn trc off either.
I was flooring the accelerator every chance i got.
Most of the feedback i got, was from the chassis/weight.... throwing the car into a corner faster than id feel safe with.
 
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How can you be so sure of what the future will bring?

lol...OK how bout "simulating 100% real life is impossible for the foresee-able future." :) It's gonna be a long time before we'll have anything close to a 100% accurate driving simulation running on a console plugged into our TV in our living rooms... :)
 
YZF: Your point is completwly irrelevant to the point of the author. The author says that GT6 creates a very similar experience of reality while driving. His personnal experience testifies of this.
What you are doing is coming here, adding nothing relevant to the topic and you talk off topic. It's not about if GT6 simulates 100% real life. No games ever will, it's practically impossible. Even Iracing has flaws, though less. But it's not a GT vs. thread. One of the aim of GT is to TRY simulating Real life physics. The matter is not if it simulates the spins of the electrons or not. The overall experience of persons judge from their own real life experience.
If you look only at the negative sides of GT physics, or any other racing game, you will never be satisfied, because simulating 100% real life is impossible.

What you don't get is that the top speed physics flaw is a BUG (in a major way). It's not inability to create realistic simulation. Because GT5 has it correct! And GT4 and probably GT3.

And what kind of 'magic experience' you are talking about? No computer game will give you the feelings you get in real life. So there is no point in comparing the feeling only, because it is completely different. What you compare is psychological imagination not actual feelings. Because there are no feelings when you are sitting in front of your TV. So if you compare virtual performance, how car slides, how car brakes, how car accelerates, and how car reaches it's top speed, then the simulation engine, at least, must be without bugs. And again, this issue I am talking about is a bug, it's not a thing which is hard to achieve or hard to make it correctly
 
YZF
What you don't get is that the top speed physics flaw is a BUG (in a major way). It's not inability to create realistic simulation. Because GT5 has it correct! And GT4 and probably GT3.

And what kind of 'magic experience' you are talking about? No computer game will give you the feelings you get in real life. So there is no point in comparing the feeling only, because it is completely different. What you compare is psychological imagination not actual feelings. Because there are no feelings when you are sitting in front of your TV. So if you compare virtual performance, how car slides, how car brakes, how car accelerates, and how car reaches it's top speed, then the simulation engine, at least, must be without bugs. And again, this issue I am talking about is a bug, it's not a thing which is hard to achieve or hard to make it correctly
If what you point out is a bug, then you can post it in this section : https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/the-bugs-glitches-thread-new-op.291414/
Because it does not belong to this topic to post bugs.
 
If what you point out is a bug, then you can post it in this section : https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/the-bugs-glitches-thread-new-op.291414/
Because it does not belong to this topic to post bugs.

It's a bug in general way, it's more of a flaw (wrong calculation). And I already posted in relevant forums, but the fact that the simulation calculation code is incorrent, means you can't compare GT6 physics simulation with reality physics. And because this thread is about physics, my post is in the right place.

My opinion comparing physics real life vs gt6: they are different (because of this wrong calculation in GT6)
 
YZF
It's a bug in general way, it's more of a flaw (wrong calculation). And I already posted in relevant forums, but the fact that the simulation calculation code is incorrent, means you can't compare GT6 physics simulation with reality physics. And because this thread is about physics, my post is in the right place.

My opinion comparing physics real life vs gt6: they are different (because of this wrong calculation in GT6)
As I told in my older post, you can find an error in the physics engine of a game, you will always be able to do so. The autor points out RL and GT are very close. He is right. Physics part missing from the game does not mean it isn't a simulation. You have to look at the whole, because pointing out errors in games, it's too easy and you can do that with every games.
 
I agree with the OP. The game gives you a flavor of the real car behaviour. The RUF 3400, in my case, with little tuning gives me satisfaction and pleasure in driving it. To a certain extent it comes close to my real life car. To my amazement, the driving satisfaction that I experience in GT6 makes the urge to take my car for a drive less. Of course, there are problems and there is room for a lot of improvements, but I think PD is on the right track.
 
YZF
And what kind of 'magic experience' you are talking about? No computer game will give you the feelings you get in real life. So there is no point in comparing the feeling only, because it is completely different. What you compare is psychological imagination not actual feelings. Because there are no feelings when you are sitting in front of your TV. So if you compare virtual performance, how car slides, how car brakes, how car accelerates, and how car reaches it's top speed, then the simulation engine, at least, must be without bugs. And again, this issue I am talking about is a bug, it's not a thing which is hard to achieve or hard to make it correctly

I play with a steering wheel, and yes i can FEEL differences in cars.
I FEEL the feedback i get from my wheel and control my car.
How do you sit in front of your tv? are u sitting there playing mario cart or something?
I dont "psychologically imagine" the car is about to oversteer.
I can see it and feel it thanks to the limited feedback from my wheel.

Now if you can finally stop talking about topspeed, try driving a lamborghini, immediately followed by a ferrari. youll see major differences in how the cars FEEL.
From the FEELING of weight/chassis to cornering dynamics, they are very very different.

im sure youll also agree that a gallardo and f430 are very different handling cars in GT.

imo, Gran Turismo has actually captured SOME of these inherent attributes and presented them in a game.
Their physics model, albeit flawed, is still pretty capable.

It cannot be denied that these cars SOMEWHAT respond and react like they do in real life.

I dont think thats a difficult idea to agree with. If you cant see the point im trying to make,
stop wasting our time and Go create a "topspeed" thread.

Jeebuz!
 
Amazing thread and a much more amazing experience from Stormbringer !

How great to see this kind of feedback ! Thanks man !

If I can add something to the "physics" discussion is this.

GRAN TURISMO DOES NOT HAVE FLUIDS SIMULATION IN THE CODE.

That IS the reason of the non-real top speeds. There are some glitches with the engine, and mostly are fixed. But the lack of fluids simulation IS the main reason of the other quite strange things that this amazing sim/game does sometimes.

Kaz mentioned that in an interview last year if I recall well. It´s just impossible for the PS3 to have that data processed.

Let´s see what happens with PS4, but with the stering wheel problems that PS4 have, it seems quite clear as why we didn´t see a GT game there yet (or a prologue in any case)
 
I didn't find oversteer in the Gallardo, if anything, some understeer, especially on aggressive corner entry. Same with my foot flat to the floor on corner exit, but then again I wasn't allowed to turn the TCS off so that probably affected things.

I've also had track time in a Ferrari F430 and an Opel Manta Rally Car, as well as a passanger ride in an Alfa 8C with a professional driver who was absolutely hooning the car around. GT6 is still missing some weighty feeling of both the cars and gravity in genereal in my opinion. Brakes are usually a little too good and don't suffer from brake fade either, sounds are an issue of course, and I just feel there is something not right about the feedback through the wheel, most likely due to a lack of tyre model.

Not trying to dump on GT6 here, but trying to replicate my experiences in game doesn't touch the same feeling I experienced on the actual race track.

For a console game on old hardware, with over 1000 cars to replicate, the game does alright to give a "it's sort of like this" feeling, but they'll always be room for improvement.

I found a very similar experience to yours regarding the understeering Lambo Gallardo again TC had to stay on.

Similarly to the original poster I also drove a F360 Modena instead of the 430, the Gallardo, 911 GT3 (996) and Aston V8 Vantage on a track day. The Aston was still great to drive but more of a cruiser. The Ferrari and Porsche were absolutely brilliant. both had so much feel going around corners you felt like you knew exactly where the grip limit was and could immediately feel the weight beginning to step out at the rear. Nothing in GT5 at the time compared exactly but the in game differences were fairly well represented and slightly improved in GT6. I found greater similarity with the admittedly race versions of the Ferrari and Porsches in GTR2 on PC even with a DFGT. That might be in part down to the Force feedback. I'll give GT6 another go with those cars (precise spec matched) with the new FFB.

As an aside, for me the worst thing about the Gallardo in real life was the pedals were far too close together for my size 11s even with very low profile trainers with thin soles on. Because of that I asked if I could drive the Ferrari and Porsche just in socks which made for much better feel compared to the Aston and Lambo. So thanks to the way I use my good old DFGT for the suggestion.
 
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911 gt3 was my second fave. It was the easiest and felt the safest to drive. Lots of grip. Felt like a solid german car.
slower compared to the ferrari.
I was hitting 190kph on the straight with the porsche and over 200kph with the f430.

The aston really turned me off. I just dont see them in the same light as the other cars anymore.
While it was easy to drive, it felt heavy and boxy. lacked character.
 
For some odd reason, some people expect too much out of this game.
Its really nice just to be able to feel some correlation between real life cars and a $50 game.
Just having that luxury at home is a blessing.
Games sure have come a long way since atari and commodore.

I'm sorry but I do not share your opinion.

Ok.
Or.. Could you explain a little bit more?

Clearly video games have not progressed since atari or commodore.
 
It is a great track. Used to be part of the F1 tracks. Parts of it reminded me of tracks ive played in GT. Really nice camber on a few corners. Sadly i dont think it will ever make it to GT.
The last time it was featured in a game was on the 1st xbox.

Actually Race Pro on the 360 had it also.

And I do share your opinion that GT5 and 6 do a decent job at recreating physics. The idea that just because it doesn't do everything right means it's total garbage seems ridiculous to me, which some people are suggesting.
 
spacecowboy73
and I do share your opinion that GT5 and 6 do a decent job at recreating physics. The idea that just because it doesn't do everything right means it's total garbage seems ridiculous to me, which some people are suggesting.
Who are these some people?
 
Well Super_GT and YZF in this thread.
Please quote any of their statements in this thread that directly say or even hint that the entire game is rubbish because of some flaws in the physics presumably or withdraw your remarks.
 
It is much more important than you would think even on smooth surfaces. Some setups I've seen used on GT should probably bottom out under braking (lowering cars while being at minimum spring rate, damper compression and extension). And you forgo curbs.
 
Please quote any of their statements in this thread that directly say or even hint that the entire game is rubbish because of some flaws in the physics presumably or withdraw your remarks.

There's nothing to quote since I never meant to imply either person said the entire game was bad. The topic was about the game physics only.

And as far as that goes:

YZF
Physics is one of the most important things and if it's broken in GT6, then the game is flawed. No matter how much other good things it has.
 
There's nothing to quote since I never meant to imply either person said the entire game was bad. The topic was about the game physics only.

And as far as that goes:
Hmmm...let's review...

First:
Actually Race Pro on the 360 had it also.

And I do share your opinion that GT5 and 6 do a decent job at recreating physics. The idea that just because it doesn't do everything right means it's total garbage seems ridiculous to me, which some people are suggesting.

So yes, you actually did mean to imply that 2 members said the entire game was garbage, the two you quoted above.

And now you're claiming that this statement:

Physics is one of the most important things and if it's broken in GT6, then the game is flawed. No matter how much other good things it has
...means that someone is saying the game is total garbage, when in fact he's only saying the game is flawed (which it is and so is every other game) in spite of how much other good things it has (which directly implies there are other good things in the game and therefore it's not total garbage?
 
I did review thanks. I already said I didn't mean to imply what you think I did.

[QUOTE="spacecowboy73, post: 10193198, member: 172279"The idea that just because it doesn't do everything right means it's total garbage seems ridiculous to me, which some people are suggesting.[/QUOTE]

The "it" and "it's" in that sentence is referring to the physics.
 
I did review thanks. I already said I didn't mean to imply what you think I did.

[QUOTE="spacecowboy73, post: 10193198, member: 172279"The idea that just because it doesn't do everything right means it's total garbage seems ridiculous to me, which some people are suggesting.

The "it" and "it's" in that sentence is referring to the physics.[/QUOTE]
Assuming then that's what you actually meant, please quote anyone who said or implied the physics are total garbage.
 
I find it funny you're being such a stickler here about the use of an absolute word when super_gt in post #22 can say he doesn't agree that games haven progressed since the atari era and no questions are asked.

And I already showed you evidence and it was implied. Maybe not to the nth degree you're looking for or something. YZF in posts 17 and 18 seems to be saying if this one part of the physics engine is broken than the rest of it is no good.

That's how I understood this:

YZF
Physics is one of the most important things and if it's broken in GT6, then the game is flawed. No matter how much other good things it has.

It's like saying, "I bought a new car, but it has broken engine". And then "But look at it's shinny wheels and new interior! And it has a lot of other things that are great!"

But i don't care. I want proper engine!

That sounds pretty harsh.

All I am saying is the physics aren't perfect but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be enjoying them for what they are. I'm not going to get all mad because the game doesn't do torque steer right or whatever that video in post 29 was supposed to show.
 
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