POLL. If you want standard cars to stay, why do you want them to stay?

[Nooboogering]

I don't want them as much as I'm stuck with them! It would be a shame to lose any of the car models so that is the only reason I'd want to keep them around. Although I'm cringing at the thought of some of the really bad standard models on my PS4/HD set up though. Them PS2 jaggies Eek. Just clean up the textures, PD![/QUOTE

Images eh!
Always got too keep up a good image. Not too shiny, not to dull. Not too fake or too realistic

 

[glassjaw]

Oooh boy, where do I begin...

Oh I'm sorry, I thought it was all about me, sorry, my apologies, I realise now that it's all about you and want you from the game. Seriously though, do you not see a distinction between total removal of something that some people enjoy, or asking other people to just use the assets that they would be choosing to use anyway.... and baring in mind that..

No, I don't see how one option that makes one group unhappy is any more altruistic than another option which makes another group unhappy. What you're describing - where the people who enjoy standards use them, and everyone who doesn't turns a blind eye - is the current solution. If this thread (or the hundreds others like it that have come and gone since GT5 released) is any indication, it's that there are still many unhappy players who don't agree with that solution.

What I was trying to say with my initial comment that you oh-so-eloquently blew off is that you can't tell people their opinion is wrong because it invades your specific playing experience. The way you see it, I'm limiting your choice. But then you're making the game qualitatively worse for me. We can go round and round in circles some more if you'd like.

I'm sorry, did you just say nobody is asking for better sounds?

For me the question at issue here is "why do I want standards to stay in the game", not "is everything Graphically (yeah I inserted that because you're overlooking sounds) consistent and believable".. so I'll make my feelings on it clear once again...

No, what I said is nobody is asking for the removal of cars that they arbitrarily decide are icky. They're asking for asset equality. That includes sound, and since I already equated graphics and sound as similar problems earlier in this thread, I'm going to save myself the energy here.

...I do think it's ironic that some people are totally fine with 800 PS2-quality cars, and yet take serious issue with awful engine sounds. The way I see it, both shortcomings are practically the same. They're both aspects of the driving experience that are supplementary to gameplay, in that you can still have a realistic simulation without accurate visuals or sound. However, both go a long way towards creating a believable, immersive environment and a more faithful representation of real racing. I don't understand how anyone could be for the improvement of one and not the other.

Has a game ever been made that is awesome, but not at the peak of it's Genre grahically: Yes, plenty.

Look at my avatar. That's OutRun. It's old. It looks terrible by today's standards. Since you apparently paid no attention to a single word I said in my last post, you might be shocked to find it's actually one of my favorite games ever. I never said that graphically inferior games can't be good. What I said was that at the very least, consistency is necessary. Your C64 racer has that, and so does OutRun. GT5 and GT6 do not.

 

[Griffith500]

Consistency is not absolute. There is always inconsistency, always subtle differences. How, then, should we measure consistency, and what threshold level of consistency should PD aspire to?

I actually have a really hard time understanding how people couldn't accept that Standards are in the game and just ignore them. Would a simple menu option to exclude them from any individual's game (e.g. in the AI opponent draw pool etc.) suffice?

 

[glassjaw]

Consistency is not absolute. There is always inconsistency, always subtle differences. How, then, should we measure consistency, and what threshold level of consistency should PD aspire to?

You're right, there's always some. But look at it this way: nobody complained about the differences in quality between the car models in GT5 Prologue. A small margin of error is always forgivable, but it's quite a different story when the gap is generational in size.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

but for those who do, they drive just the same as the premiums, just with lower res textures, a few less polys, and no full interiors.

• It's actually been debated since GT5's release that Standards might not drive the same as Premiums.
• Yep, lower res textures.
• Actually, the average untouched Standard has 1/100th of the polygons a Premium has. Mostly due to point #4...
• No interior at all, really, on the vast majority of them.

So they Are like getting bonus cars besides all of the Premiums..

If I bought a Mustang and was given a complimentary Pinto, I suppose it'd technically be a bonus too

No it does not my argument is 100% right

Nope.

There is a line drawn in the sand. On one side there are those who don't mind losing the Supra, MR2, Celica, DC2 Type R, EG Civic SiR, Neon SRT4, Eclipse, etc...

On the other side there are those who don't want to lose any cars at all.

Because the idea that PD could actually replace those with Premium versions - you know, models that are up to this decade's standards - is too radical.

I'm pretty sure everybody would love to have all of the cars be premium if Kaz could just snap his fingers and make it so. But the reality is that there is no feasible way for that to happen without crippling progress on the rest of the game.

Realistically, it'd only cripple the modeling of assets portion of the game. If the entire modeling team, starting today, focused on nothing but Premium car creation, it wouldn't have an effect on physics simulation or sound, or any of the myriad other disciplines. Unless you're suggesting PD cleared house to make room for nothing but modelers... which would obviously never happen!

 

[Davoxx]

• It's actually been debated since GT5's release that Standards might not drive the same as Premiums.
• Yep, lower res textures.
• Actually, the average untouched Standard has 1/100th of the polygons a Premium has. Mostly due to point #4...
• No interior at all, really, on the vast majority of them.

If I bought a Mustang and was given a complimentary Pinto, I suppose it'd technically be a bonus too



Nope.



Because the idea that PD could actually replace those with Premium versions - you know, models that are up to this decade's standards - is too radical.



Realistically, it'd only cripple the modeling of assets portion of the game. If the entire modeling team, starting today, focused on nothing but Premium car creation, it wouldn't have an effect on physics simulation or sound, or any of the myriad other disciplines. Unless you're suggesting PD cleared house to make room for nothing but modelers... which would obviously never happen!

And why not outsourcing, it might be the best solution nowadays IMO in order to be fully focus on the core game.

 

[Gerarghini]

Standard car quality is unacceptable at this point in time. While I would like them removed, I think the following solution would work:

-During the game install, let the game ask if you want standard quality cars (all of them without a valid interior. Yes, that includes semi-premiums)

-Put the standard cars in one dealership and premiums in another (like in GT5) and make it where standard cars are never used by the Ai. Make it where you never have to use or see a standard quality car if you don't go the the standard car dealership to specifically get a standard car.

-Used a random blacked-out premium (or any really) online to reference users who are using standard cars (like how Forza 4 used a Bora online to signify DLC cars you didn't own or install).

-When standard to premium converted cars are released, update the existing in-game car instead of charging people for a car that's already on the disc.

If these options don't work, then I don't know what to say. Of course PD would never do such a thing seeing as how they think all cars are "equal."

 

[Griffith500]

^ That seems reasonable. Except the arbitrary Premium proxies online; that sounds weird.

You're right, there's always some. But look at it this way: nobody complained about the differences in quality between the car models in GT5 Prologue. A small margin of error is always forgivable, but it's quite a different story when the gap is generational in size.

Indeed. I'm asking precisely how much inconsistency is tolerable. And how do you objectively measure that consistency?

The reason I ask, is because it creates a target for PD with the Semi-Premiums.

...

If I bought a Mustang and was given a complimentary Pinto, I suppose it'd technically be a bonus too

...

Depends how much you like Pintos!

...

Because the idea that PD could actually replace those with Premium versions - you know, models that are up to this decade's standards - is too radical.

...

That implies that the Standards are being retained instead of "converting" them. Keeping Standards does not preclude getting more Premiums, and dropping the Standards does not automatically beget more Premiums. They'll make Premiums at whatever rate they can make them, and the Standards will continue to rattle around in the gaps.

 

[CBH]

Griffith500 is 110% right about what he said that Standards are in the game and just ignore them.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

That implies that the Standards are being retained instead of "converting" them. Keeping Standards does not preclude getting more Premiums, and dropping the Standards does not automatically beget more Premiums. They'll make Premiums at whatever rate they can make them, and the Standards will continue to rattle around in the gaps.

The user I'm responding to regularly implies that removing Standards means losing those particular nameplates permanently, so I felt it was necessary to point out that wouldn't necessarily be true.

Keeping Standards does not preclude getting more Premiums... unless PD continues to spend time on them to turn them into the halfway-house "super-Standards".

 

[Johnnypenso]

Griffith500 is 110% right about what he said that Standards are in the game and just ignore them.

Actually no. If the standards are kept and time is spent upgrading them to semi-premium status that takes resources, resources that could otherwise be spent making premium cars. So keeping standards and upgrading them will reduce the future premium car count.

 

[ironman44321]

Realistically, it'd only cripple the modeling of assets portion of the game. If the entire modeling team, starting today, focused on nothing but Premium car creation, it wouldn't have an effect on physics simulation or sound, or any of the myriad other disciplines. Unless you're suggesting PD cleared house to make room for nothing but modelers... which would obviously never happen!

Yeah that's true. But think about how long we'd have to go without getting any new cars just to convert all of the standards to premium...by the time they finished we'd be on like GT9.

Oh, and why aren't you telling people to get back on topic?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yeah that's true. But think about how long we'd have to go without getting any new cars just to convert all of the standards to premium...by the time they finished we'd be on like GT9.

Oh, and why aren't you telling people to get back on topic?

Or http://www.glassegg.com/portfolio.php

 

[SteveEnforcer]

get over it people seriously there is no point consistently complaining whinging and sulking about standard cars in Gran Turismo they are apart of the series if you don't like them then simply don't play the game that simple THERE NOT HURTING ANYONE

 

[Johnnypenso]

get over it people seriously there is no point consistently complaining whinging and sulking about standard cars in Gran Turismo they are apart of the series if you don't like them then simply don't play the game that simple THERE NOT HURTING ANYONE

Thanks Dad, don't know what we'd do without you.

 

[Pootis]

So one of the answers is "because I like the quality of standards".

Whoever voted for that loves seeing the Suzuki Alto Works in GT6...

 

[Griffith500]

The user I'm responding to regularly implies that removing Standards means losing those particular nameplates permanently, so I felt it was necessary to point out that wouldn't necessarily be true.

This keeps happening to me...
Can't keep up with the sub-text.

EDIT: We're still missing cars from the great cull of GT3, to be fair, though. There will be more casualties going to GT7 even with PD's pledge to keep the Standards, much as there was from GT4 to GT5, GT5 to GT6 (and some oddities like the Auto-Union Type C).

Keeping Standards does not preclude getting more Premiums... unless PD continues to spend time on them to turn them into the halfway-house "super-Standards".

Keeping Standards and turning some of them into Semi-Premiums are two separate things.

Actually no. If the standards are kept and time is spent upgrading them to semi-premium status that takes resources, resources that could otherwise be spent making premium cars. So keeping standards and upgrading them will reduce the future premium car count.

Not keeping them, as above. Only upgrading them.

Which of course raises an important question, one that I am yet to get an answer to. What is the minimum quality that would be considered "Premium"?

Or how about a different question; what if all cars were Premium quality on the outside, but only about 50% had interior views?

Is that better or worse than 600 Premiums and the rest Standards as we know them? Why?

 

[pb5]

Hi

I'd keep them but get rid of all the duplicates they are pointless.

Paul

 

[Bandit23]

I think PDis confused, they say they are keeping STD because people like the cars? No no no, we like the cars yes but want them premium. I don't want to keep the STD Suprah, but they don't have a Premium one, or the YB, yes want those cars but as premium

 

[Gerarghini]

I think PDis confused, they say they are keeping STD because people like the cars? No no no, we like the cars yes but want them premium. I don't want to keep the STD Suprah, but they don't have a Premium one, or the YB, yes want those cars but as premium

Exactly, we all want our favorite cars, just to be brought up to premium quality.

Side note, I wouldn't abbreviate standards as "STD" maybe as "STR" or "SRD" I don't know

 

[1241Penguin]

Side note, I wouldn't abbreviate standards as "STD" maybe as "STR" or "SRD" I don't know

I think that confirms the point that keeping STDs in the dealership will indeed hurt anything or anyone being in their.

 

[Bandit23]

My cars have been naughty, got to get them rubber, and I don't mean tires lmfao

 

[jlmcmillan1978]

Can we all agree that if PD just pulled their finger out and converted every standard car in the game to a premium model with interior, then everyone would be happy? Which, if PD cared about some level of consistency concerning the games quality, should have happened already. Kaz must still wake up from nightmares in cold sweats over the fanbase reaction to the number of cars in GT3 vs GT2, that's surely what inspired this damn standards vs premiums thing in the first place.

 

[MeanElf]

...I don't want to keep the STD Suprah, but they don't have a Premium one, or the YB, yes want those cars but as premium

I seem to have a premium Supra, very nice it is too.

I think the idea though is to continue replacing standards with premium models, as has been suggested. PD I'm sure are aware that keeping standard models is not a popular concept - though they have improved vastly from their appearance in GT5.

By the duplicates, I hope though that you don't mean the various year/market models...

 

[John_Marsten]

get over it people seriously there is no point consistently complaining whinging and sulking about standard cars in Gran Turismo they are apart of the series if you don't like them then simply don't play the game that simple THERE NOT HURTING ANYONE

They are hurting GT.

What other series does this madness? Damn, why dont they just bring back the cars the PS1 days? that would make the car count go through the roof!!! I WANT MY DRAG CARS BACK PD!! WHY DID YOU EVER TAKE THEM OUT??

 

[NCRthree]

I was against having the standards in GT6 100%. However the standards that received exterior upgrades impressed me enough that I changed my mind. Granted there are still many "uglies" still around but it really doesn't affect me.

What does bother me is the price point is the same whether premium or standard. I use cockpit cam exclusively. Paying 20M for a vintage Ford GT with a blacked out interior is insulting to a gamer who has grinded for hours. Oh, didn't read the fine print in the vehicle description! grrrr.

I'm more on the "it's nice to have so many old favorites" side of the fence mainly as they don't bother me at all when driving on track with them. There's plenty of things in GT that I don't use but I don't want them removed. I don't take photos or drift or drive go-karts. Never driven on the moon!

I'm more concerned about the likely lesser quality suspension modeling of the oldies more than anything. Quite frankly I've barely skimmed the surface of premiums I've spent quality time in so that's barely an issue.