R.I.P Realistic Online Physics (actually, it's not a bad thing)

  • Thread starter VBR
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amar212
After testing the 2.09 physics in my usual GTPElitist™ environment (proper wheel, pedals, no assists, no ABS, track properties set to Real, usage of low-grade tyre compounds, full stock vehicles, etc..), I have to conclude how this update is nothing less then great.
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Very well said.
I totally agree, 2,09 physics are much better.


And what's this about cars roll over or not?
It can be the exact same physics even if the car can roll over offline, but can't online.
It's not related to the physics.
Imagine an axis in the center of the car.
Online, you can't roll more than X degrees.
Offline, you can roll all the way around.
Only difference is that in one case, the programmer set a predetermined number of allowed roll to the axis, but up to the point where to offline car keep rolling and the online car does'nt, physics can be identical.
 
My experience with online since the update is that it is much easier now to control the car. I've been driving the blade 7 for the past few days as i am prepping for a race tomorrow night. My times are now 1.3 seconds quicker. The car just stays planted to the track :grumpy:
 
From what I've seen from racing today, the cars' main bodys seem to carry momentum MUCH more than before. If you go too fast into a corner (was experiencing this on Trial mountain at the end of the North West straight) the back will start to slide and swing out even without throttle. The weight transfer through even a minor 's' bend is noticeable a good distance after the corner and you have to be much more careful about mixing weight transfers, crests, dips and breaking zones. Do a few grip laps around Trial mountain and see what you think. I was experiencing strong effects in an Amuse S2000 with Sports Soft tyres.
 
i agree with TC 100%. cars are way too arcadish/easy. i prefer oversteer to understeer any day. powersliding isnt even possible in some cars now. its a sad day. i will join and mourn.
 
I actually also preferred the unpredictable online lounges. I completely stopped testing offline because of the vast difference. I suppose having a consistency in both modes is a great thing, but I would have preferred if offline became online, and not the other way around.

Have you guys tested with tyrewear on for both modes to be certain it's the same?
 
I raced online tonight for the first time since the update.

I liked it!

425pp, RS tires, SRF

I think the car felt more connected to the road, though some of the tracks seemed rougher.

A few of my friends were complaining that their cars were about to flip over. One of mine kept getting up on two wheels.

It was a fun night!
 
I tried the Camaro off the Recommended list on Comfort Softs at Indy Road yesterday online, one of my favourite combos. And yes, it certainly wasn't as good as it was before the update, but it still slid around more than it used to with offline physics. I much prefered how it handled online before though.

Tried my fav car for pure driving pleasure, the premium Lotus Esprit stock on Sports Hards at Nurburgring 24 hour, cloudy with no rain & a day to night transition over 1 lap. Drove with clutch & shifter as per usual, & it still felt good online, way better than it felt offline before the update.

Had many shuffle races last night, & still managed to have fun online, some cars work well others not so much. The new physics are ok I guess.
 
So, as i see this, they dont have just changed the online to the offline physics, no, they completely changed both! I feel they changed the whole suspension thing, when you drive around the nürburgring with a car with a very hard setup you see the car heavily bouncing off the track because of the bumps. Looks definitly more realistic to me in replay mode!!
 
ron86
So, as i see this, they dont have just changed the online to the offline physics, no, they completely changed both! I feel they changed the whole suspension thing,..
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Yes, my thought exactly.

Properties of tyres have been changed, barycenter characteristics seems different, weight-distribution and mass-transfer seems different, etc. But everything results with great feel of drive. Almost absolute removal of IceEffect (compared to pre-patch) suggests some serious changes IMO
 
ron86
So, as i see this, they dont have just changed the online to the offline physics, no, they completely changed both! I feel they changed the whole suspension thing, when you drive around the nürburgring with a car with a very hard setup you see the car heavily bouncing off the track because of the bumps. Looks definitly more realistic to me in replay mode!!
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Yes more bumps - but seemed more real and more fun.
 
It was about time we got a "Grand unified theory of GT5 physics".
I am very pleased with the new model.

Some of the bad aspects of online and offline handling have been dealt vith 👍

-Sport tyres seems less planted now.
-Comfort tyres seem to loose grip a little more progressively.
-Lift-off oversteer in 4wd and FF cars is more likely, yet more progressive and natural (in my subjective opinion).

All in all a great leap in the right direction. Goes to show there's still some life left in the GT5 development team.

Still a lot of work to be done in other areas though, but this is an indication that optimism is not in vein.
 
Chrunch Houston
Yes more bumps - but seemed more real and more fun.
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I dont think there are more bumps but the cars react to the bumps way more, you feel every bump and doing corners und bumpy tracks is more challenging, realistic and fun now! I absolutely love the new physics, really great what pd is doing for that game even 2 years after release! Most of the other game developers wouldn do anything after they have sold enough copies (and 9 millions are far more than enough ;) )of there games!
 
VBR
Really?




:P
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I drive a 2004 sti, and it is possible to get the back end out at exits if you set the differential to 65% rear power bias. 22b came with a DCCD (driver controlled center differential) to be able to set this manually. you dont need handbrake to drift it, just play with the steering (not counter-steering) and throttle.

low and mid speed sections are easy to get the tail out, you need to steer hard and throttle hard at the same time so that the front pulls initially causing the car to rotate more.
in high speed corner, stock sti's will have mid corner and exit understeer because 1)not enough power at that speed to coax it 2)stock suspension is setup up this way.

getting back to the physics, I always found the stock 4wd physics a bit weird. unless you upgrade the center diff, you always seem to get front bias. check out the Ruf CTR2 and that car feels like its 90% FRONT bias!...always understeering under power. and anyone who knows 911 awd knows that it rwd most of the time and will only power the front when needed. then when you change the center diff in GT5, BOOM!...feels proper now.

I drove the 2004 sti with my real life settings (Track Dailed suspension with slight power-oversteer on exit)....offline was just hopeless cause even with the upgraded diff, its still pushing at exits. but online was so much better as I can rotate the car or get the tail out slightly at exits.

....the new update has dumb down this a bit....but can still be achieved online, which is still great! :)
 
I have always embraced the numerous changes to the tyre and physic models in hope that all the data generated by people playing the game would give PD the information needed to continue to improve the game as a whole and it looks like it has. Lets face it, GT5 is evolving and I think it will be the case in future GT titles as well. This is a good thing in the quest for realism and the more they tweak it the closer we get to having the best physics available in the virtual world that is GT. big thumbs up to PD ! :)
 
Do you guys think this physics update may be work for GT6 that they've uploaded to GT5 for possible feedback?
 
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awr117
Doy guys think this physics update may be work for GT6 that they've uploaded to GT5 for possible feedback?
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Spec 2 brought the first, biggest physics change to GT5. Anything that gets updated in GT5 is technically meant for GT6, since before the PS3 it wasn't possible.



amar212
After testing the 2.09 physics in my usual GTPElitist™ environment (proper wheel, pedals, no assists, no ABS, track properties set to Real, usage of low-grade tyre compounds, full stock vehicles, etc..), I have to conclude how this update is nothing less then great.

The complete sensation of driving in online is now more believable. Ice Effect™ is almost no more, you can clearly feel the grip-thereshold on the wheel, you can partially recover from high-speed skidding by proper modulation of acceleration/straight-line-braking and my favorite part - braking distances are finally moved towards Realm of Reality™, where you need to start braking very, very, very early on Comfort tyres in order to actually manage to slow down prior to apex.

But my favorite part is this: finally you can drive super-sports cars on Comfort tyres without nasty Ice Effect™ (it was possible before, but not without serious wheelspins and such, which was challenging, but not very realistic). I tested F40, MC4-12C, Enzo and Yellowbird (all cars full stock) on Comfort Soft compound and each and every one of them drives like a charm. Of course, you have to take into account elevations of the corners, track elevations, bumps, kerbs and speed of approach while braking, but feel of driving those beasts on proper compound - without ned to go into semi-slick territory - is great.

I love the new property of more pronounced loss the FFB effect if you lose the grip (red tyres). There is no retain of control, car just goes straight until grip is back. Great.

To conclude, I really appreciate what they've done with this update. Main control now lays in your accelerator pedal where gentle modulations of pressure affects the mechanical grip much more then before. New properties of tyres (where grip levels have definitely been balanced towards more realistic) allows for normal driving of high-powered cars on compound that should be usual if driving them in stock conditions (Comfort). Grip of tyres is more realistic, they absorb lateral and longitudinal movements of the chassis more naturally, resulting with more believable sensation of driving.

I also welcome the new addition of more "loose" model of barycenter which finally allowed the suspension to lift-off the wheels from the ground.

Od course, there are many things that should be improved further (low speed physics would dramatically improve if effects of torque-rev in 1st and 2nd gears would be made less dramatic and more realistic - which would also result with actual standing start getting variable grip more dependable of acceleration modulation, influencing development of grip-property for tyres while cold), but when I look back to times of Prologue and GT5 V1.0 - this is one of the greatest physics update for this game so far IMO.
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Bumping this since it's what people look for when going into this thread.
 
awr117
Doy guys think this physics update may be work for GT6 that they've uploaded to GT5 for possible feedback?
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Exactly my thoughts last night after testing the new physics. A good step in the right direction IMO. Now we just need some tire model validation with tire pressure adjustments and suspension geometry adjustments for each individual corner.
 
LVracerGT
Exactly my thoughts last night after testing the new physics. A good step in the right direction IMO. Now we just need some tire model validation with tire pressure adjustments and suspension geometry adjustments for each individual corner.
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And tire temps across each tire after each on track session.
 
the only difference i noticed is that the tyre walls seem to flex which i hadn't noticed before the update, and i think tank-slappers are more likely. But, i'm not sure.
As for VBR's post, i think part one of the video looks more true to life. the other videos, all the oversteer there is coming from fancy moves like flicks, handbrake and dumping the clutch.
 
Just did a few nice races in the open lobby with complete strangers (yes people, that's possible) with a number of different cars in the 500/550PP range (Sports tyres) and I found the new physics to be an improvement so far but they're far less forgiving.
You really have to work for it again (using a DS3 by the way) and small mistakes have bigger consequences I found out.
Also went into another room with ABS disabled and whilst I normally can handle a lot of cars without ABS if I tinker with the brake balance, now I found it almost impossible with my DS3.
Just my first impressions so far.
 
There is definitely way more emphasis on weight shifting. Try driving around an old, stock american car now, without aids...
Just a basic suspension upgrade makes a giant difference now, as it will reduce weight shift significantly.
 
I put in my disk (after not playing for a month) to give this patch a try.

I ran some laps at Nurburg GPD in a stock Amuse R1, online and offline.

I have to say that the 2 are much closer now, but offline is still a tick quicker. Balance feels the same, which was my big complaint before (as most people).

The car now feels more "real", which I know is completely subjective.

Then I grabbed a GT-R and ran the seasonal. I was surprised to find the car had less understeer than before the patch. The understeer of 4WD cars (in offline mode) has always seemed excessive to me. Feels more right now.

I rate this as the best patch as far as physics goes.
 
HaylRayzor
I put in my disk (after not playing for a month) to give this patch a try.

I ran some laps at Nurburg GPD in a stock Amuse R1, online and offline.

I have to say that the 2 are much closer now, but offline is still a tick quicker. Balance feels the same, which was my big complaint before (as most people).

The car now feels more "real", which I know is completely subjective.

Then I grabbed a GT-R and ran the seasonal. I was surprised to find the car had less understeer than before the patch. The understeer of 4WD cars (in offline mode) has always seemed excessive to me. Feels more right now.

I rate this as the best patch as far as physics goes.
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Man if that experience with the GT-R is somewhat universal that is welcome news. Be great if it translated to FF's too...👍👍
 

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