CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,260
- United States
Sciaru BRZFRS (BreezeFrees)
- Thread starter Azuremen
- 5,604 comments
- 378,495 views
- 11,343
- Chicago, iLL
- GTP_Nismo
EVERYONE
-meh shifter feel
-meh engine sound
this guy
-awesome shifter
-awesome engine sound
Is it possible the brz and frs have some differences in the shifter mechanism? The BRZ shifter felt very much like the stock wrx shifter. A bit mushy, not very precise feeling.
Last edited:
- 27,162
- United Kingdom
Just wait until this month's EVO's lead story comes online. They test the BRZ and... err... it's not a very positive test. In fairness they only drove an auto, but they had reservations about way more than just the gearbox... builds even more on the lukewarm EVO video posted a few pages back.
Hoping the 86 with a manual gearbox fares a little better when they eventually test that. They do reckon the Subaru's suspension setup counts against it.
Hoping the 86 with a manual gearbox fares a little better when they eventually test that. They do reckon the Subaru's suspension setup counts against it.
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,260
- United States
- 5,303
- Riverside, Ca
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
So, I heard you like growlers.. 
- 1,194
- New York
- XSVterror16
- xsvterror16
R1600Turbo
I'm just waiting for someone to put UEL headers in and a turbo so this car really becomes something special.
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
Hell, they could just sell the 05-06 Corolla XRS with a fancy new body and I'd be completely satisfied.
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,260
- United States
Yeah that would be OK with me too.
dsgerbc
Premium
- 2,577
- dsgerbc
Meh, nothing really useful in that review to those in the US.
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
Well, I got the comparison test that I wanted...
The results aren't all that surprising. Raw numbers are definitely in favor of the Track Pack Mustang, but actual feel goes to the Subaru. Considering the Mustang can be had in that configuration for less than $24K, it is a hell of a value. But, it won't have the tactile feel of the Scion and Subaru.
I wouldn't be able to make an honest judgement until I drive each of them.
The results aren't all that surprising. Raw numbers are definitely in favor of the Track Pack Mustang, but actual feel goes to the Subaru. Considering the Mustang can be had in that configuration for less than $24K, it is a hell of a value. But, it won't have the tactile feel of the Scion and Subaru.
I wouldn't be able to make an honest judgement until I drive each of them.
The Vanishing Boy
Premium
- 9,000
- Quezon City, Philippines & Las Vegas, NV
- GTP_VanishingBoy
- Vanishing Boy
-> Finally! A nice head-2-head comparison!
-> Now Car and Driver should do this:
- '09 S2000 Base
- '11 RX-8
- '12 BRZ Premium
- '12 FR-S
- '11 MX-5 PHRT
- '09 Solstice GXP Base
- '09 Sky Roadster Base
- '13 Mustang V6
- '12 Genesis Coupe 2.0T R-Spec
- '11 128i
^ Take note, all of these cars are RWD!
-> Now Car and Driver should do this:
- '09 S2000 Base
- '11 RX-8
- '12 BRZ Premium
- '12 FR-S
- '11 MX-5 PHRT
- '09 Solstice GXP Base
- '09 Sky Roadster Base
- '13 Mustang V6
- '12 Genesis Coupe 2.0T R-Spec
- '11 128i
^ Take note, all of these cars are RWD!
- 6,769
- Little Elm, TX
- JCE3000GT
After all this whole topic I still just do not like it. I am trying very hard to like it because I like RWD and Subaru. But god this thing is ugly ... stock. Which makes all these tuner ones freaking vomit-enducing. I could give a **** about drifting and all that retarded tuner stuff. Just give me a well handling car with acceleration and one that isn't as ugly as a baboon's butt.
I just cannot justify this price tag for an underpowered car that handles well. My wife's RX-8 fits that criteria already. You can have your cake and eat it too. It was most certainly an easy thing to put a turbo option and for $2k or less. I'm not talking about a mega 12psi booster either. Something as simple as a 4-6psi turbo to give that extra 30-50bhp would suffice.
And all of you that say cornering is everything and acceleration is meaningless? You need to go in a straight line to get TO and EXIT that corner.
I'll take the stripper Mustang or Genesis please. A least they please my eyes.
I just cannot justify this price tag for an underpowered car that handles well. My wife's RX-8 fits that criteria already. You can have your cake and eat it too. It was most certainly an easy thing to put a turbo option and for $2k or less. I'm not talking about a mega 12psi booster either. Something as simple as a 4-6psi turbo to give that extra 30-50bhp would suffice.
And all of you that say cornering is everything and acceleration is meaningless? You need to go in a straight line to get TO and EXIT that corner.
I'll take the stripper Mustang or Genesis please. A least they please my eyes.
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,260
- United States
Didn't even know you bought one.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Good luck getting the (pre-facelift) Genesis to either enter or exit a corner in a straight line. (wallowy rear end equals the sucketh).
-
The Toyobaru was never meant to be the fastest thing on four wheels. Hell, it was never meant to be the ultimate cornering machine, which is why they used low-grip Michelin tires. The whole point is useable, chuckable enjoyable on-road manners.
Mazda went the same way, too, with the Miata. Less power, less weight, more involvement. The NC even came/comes (depending on market and variant) with Michelin tires with similarly modest limits. This allows you to hotdog to your heart's content at relatively liveable speeds.
I've driven lots, lots faster, and I still want an MX-5. She may not pound like a pornstar, but at the end of the day, she leaves you satisfied, not sore.
No drag-racing, you mean?
EVO does very good reviews.You could read the motoiq.com review, where they assessed the utility of the cupholders.
More seriously, how the cupholder bracket could be slid all the way back to keep your drink bottles out of the way when shifting.
dsgerbc
Premium
- 2,577
- dsgerbc
No money changed hands yet. I'll say I bought it when it's in my garage
Huh?No drag-racing, you mean?
None of the cars they compared the BRZ to are available in the US. Other than the 370z, which is quite a bit more dough. Also, using AT version of the car seems retarded for an outlet like EVO.
- 27,162
- United Kingdom
And it's not absolutely vital to cover that straight line distance quickly unless you're on a race track.
It depends where you live of course. For you, there might be 100 miles between corners, in which case I can understand the need for more power. Where I live, you're lucky to manage even 60mph between corners in something with 500hp, let alone 200.
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,260
- United States
- 27,162
- United Kingdom
*Psst... Subaru*
And yes, it was. Not something of Evo's choosing. The editor's column in the mag itself actually says that originally the drive was only going to be a day-long ponce around Monaco in the car, but they managed to grab the car for a five-day jaunt instead so they could thoroughly test it.
It's a pity it wasn't a manual, but it sounds more like the car's problems are partly down to the slightly softer setup that Subaru has given the car, compared to the Toyota one.
Wait... you don't get MX5s then?
The idea of the test was to compare four fun cars with a similar ethos, regardless of small price differences. Rather than pick four identical cars at identical prices.
- 5,303
- Riverside, Ca
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
Yeah.. Just a wee bit of bias and so on..
- 8,381
- The Black Lodge
That's an interesting duel. Though I have mixed feelings about it. Over here the Mégane RS Trophy and the BRZ (the top model) are both in the same price range (just under 41k euros), which makes them comparable from a price perspective. However, the Mégane RS, and especially the Trophy, is known for its excellent handling, communication and balance, being possibly the best FWD car out in the wild today (though of course that can be argued ) and it's also known to whoop serious butt compared to RWD cars in a much higher price range and with a lot more power too. The BRZ is a whole different beast, so I find them really hard to compare, since I doubt people will cross-shop between the two. Though granted, EVO didn't like it regardless of the opposition.
Though I have mixed feelings about it. Over here the Mégane RS Trophy and the BRZ (the top model) are both in the same price range (just under 41k euros), which makes them comparable from a price perspective. However, the Mégane RS, and especially the Trophy, is known for its excellent handling, communication and balance, being possibly the best FWD car out in the wild today (though of course that can be argued ) and it's also known to whoop serious butt compared to RWD cars in a much higher price range and with a lot more power too. The BRZ is a whole different beast, so I find them really hard to compare, since I doubt people will cross-shop between the two. Though granted, EVO didn't like it regardless of the opposition.
- 9,053
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
41,000 euros?!
Damn Europe, you pricey.
Damn Europe, you pricey.
- 6,769
- Little Elm, TX
- JCE3000GT
I was speaking of looks+performance/price. And it doesn't handle that badly, it just isn't among the class leaders.
But, alas, you're missing my point. This car could of literally been "have your cake and eat it too" with just that little extra something available for the consumers to order. A small 5psi turbo that yields something in the neighborhood of 30-50bhp is not out of the realm of affordability. It adds what 50lbs to the total wet curb weight? And if the car is what you say it is with that turbo and better handling dynamics than the Genesis coupe then why NOT go for it?
Hyundai/Kia right now are killing Toyota with stuff that's more exciting, less recalls, better warranty, and much more pleasing to the eye. That new 2.0T is one bad-ass engine.
Don't forget they did the same tragedy for the RX-8. The wife and I are going to switch cars for distance/fuel economy reasons and I'll be stuck with this slow dog RX-8 all the time now... I'll miss my 282 torques and 3.73 gears worth of acceleration.
Well, different strokes for different folks. I like my satisfaction from both corners and straight-line acceleration--which the base stripper V6 Mustang has for an unbelievable great price.
Now if I could only find a good job in this damned rat-**** country I'd probably buy one with my fully repaired good credit. 
Why not? Faster is better and more fun. Both on track and around country bendy roads. If I'm on a twisty road (visibility permitting of course) and I take a corner at a good clip I personally enjoy the feeling of not only shooting out of said corner but then quickly accelerating to the next corner and so on. What's the point if you enter a corner, hit the apex, start the exit, and then realize you're out of breath.
Not quite that bad as stereotyped by some famous European auto-writers. Not everywhere is a straight freeway for 100's of miles. Just like England we have our "back" country roads too with left AND right turns!
dsgerbc
Premium
- 2,577
- dsgerbc
Subaru is not softer. It has stiffer springs up front, with less aggressive damping. I doubt the difference matters that much though. Randy Pobst put in similar lap times in fr-s and brz in his test for motortrend.
- 27,162
- United Kingdom
A magazine testing every car and deciding that one is better than another is journalism, not bias. Bias is assuming that one car is better than another based on drivetrain without having driven any of them.
= Opinion. If faster was automatically better and more fun, then a Toyota Camry would be "better and more fun" than a Lotus Elise
I have a feeling that our opinion differs here. Don't get me wrong - I love fast cars, and I'd quite happily knock about in the 550hp Jag XKR-S I tested the other month, but fast doesn't automatically equal fun (see Camry vs. Elise example above).
There's a hell of a lot to be said for conserving momentum - not just a car that can do straights quickly, but a car in which the thrill is slowing down as little as possible before you enter a corner, rather than having to shed masses of excess speeds.
The BRZ/86 is clearly a "conserving momentum" car, rather than a "point and squirt" car. Sure, not everybody is into that, but that doesn't automatically make it crap because it doesn't meet your individual expectations of what constitutes fun...
It also has softer springs at the back, and as you say - less aggressive damping. Subaru itself has said the car isn't set up as aggressively as the Toyota - i.e. it's a softer setup. Early tests seem to suggest the 86 is happier to go sideways than the Subaru.
- 5,303
- Riverside, Ca
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
Then, why didn't they make it good journalism by using a car that has similar performance figures instead of similar price? I mean, only option missing from that Megane was Cup chassis, otherwise it's fully built for track work..
- 27,162
- United Kingdom
It's very much a road car - one that's quicker and more practical than the Subaru. Still failing to see the bias here.
Subaru/Toyota specifically designed the BRZ/86 to be a "fun" car. EVO grouped three other "fun" cars with it for a test. The Subaru didn't win in terms of "fun". Seems simple enough to me.
As I've just been saying to JCE, performance isn't automatically indicative of fun. Therefore the BRZ's performance disadvantage shouldn't matter. It just happens to be not as fun to drive as the Renault regardless of its performance (in EVO's opinion).
