Tessellation car list

  • Thread starter emula
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SavageEvil
Nice photos, but if anyone cared to notice that in the photos where the tessellation is clearly seen there is actually much more things for the system to render in that one scene. Each of the angular looking photos has much more things that could stress the engine and tessellation is just a fancy way of culling detail in order to make things look a little more natural and not have that LOD pop in like in GT5. Do you have those photos in their actual snapshot, as in the what was the object of the photo and not just a zoomed in part. Why tessellation is active in photo mode is baffling, the car isn't moving and very little is going on, so the engine shouldn't need tessellation at all in photo mode. Just an observation on my part about the detail in each shot is all.

No the cars added to GT6 do not have more detail than the cars built for GT5, that would stupid and counterproductive. GT5 cars were built the exact same as GT6, they are all super sampled well beyond the PS3's and PS4's capabilities, just reduced in visual detail to fit the program and run. Only a foolish developer would build models of inferior detail only to have to redo those models yet again in 5 years when he could have just developed the model at the highest level possible and using his high powered PC to cull detail to match whatever system he was going to use the model in.

Tessellation in GT6 is hit or miss as at times it works inconveniently and PD should add in code to turn it off and just leave the LOD pop-in as that is easier to stomach than angular wheels for no apparent reason when they were nicely rounded a few seconds earlier.

Note the visual detail is insane on these cars when that tessellation isn't making things all boxy.
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You've got it in reverse. Tessellation doesn't cause the boxy edges, it fixes them. The smooth edges are tessellated. Tessellation increases the detail (by making edges smoother).

So it takes a lower poly model and makes it higher poly model. The GT6 models are already very high poly, and any non-smooth edges still on it are fixed by tessellation.
 
You guys talking about GT6 premiums being "standards" in GT7...no. Just no. The amount of detail PD has put into those cars has made them more than ready for PS4. They'll need a little cleaning up, sure, but nothing approaching the amount of work they've already put into the models. The problems with the PS3 Gran Turismo games aren't in the models, they're elsewhere: anti-aliasing, off-track texturing, shadow rendering, physics limitations (primarily the slipstream), AI, etc.
 
PaMu1337
You've got it in reverse. Tessellation doesn't cause the boxy edges, it fixes them. The smooth edges are tessellated. Tessellation increases the detail (by making edges smoother).

So it takes a lower poly model and makes it higher poly model. The GT6 models are already very high poly, and any non-smooth edges still on it are fixed by tessellation.
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Wouldn't tessellation work in both directions? It seems redundant to have it work one way and not the other. The game has a max poly mesh and a min poly mesh for each premium car so with tessellation it would from a distance being to smooth out the details as you draw closer and reduce the detail as you pull away. If this isn't how it works then that is one quite useless system as it would look nice as you get closer but pop out as you increase distance from the object. I'm quite positive that tessellation works when coming close or drawing away. Anyone who knows how this works can shed some light on the subject, I'm just basing this off what I assume would be a default reason for adding such a complex system to GT6 as in GT5 only certain things actually popped into low detail(exposed engines and interiors).

I'm not saying tessellation causes the boxy look, I'm saying that it's not calculating or activating is what is causing the lower detail object to be show. Tessellation I assume is supposed to work seamlessly and you(average user) shouldn't notice it at all. Tessellation calculations happen in realtime so I suppose it has minimum and maximum threshold limits, so when you get nice and close it should allow for maximum detail and when you pull away it should start scaling back in order to give the correct appearance at the distance so things don't get muddled which is worsened by having low definition output source as well. Think GT2 when a cars goes off in the distance it looks rather horrible and less like polygons and more like pixels. My thoughts tessellation is an on demand renderer, which can increase detail or decrease it according to set limits based on viewpoint and distance. I have no real idea about it but this is what I am guessing what it probably means. If you are fluent in this sort of technology I would surely like to know more, and possibly hope that this is refined more for PS4 as PS3 has little to no more grunt to attempt such a complicated and demanding process.
 
SavageEvil
Wouldn't tessellation work in both directions? It seems redundant to have it work one way and not the other. The game has a max poly mesh and a min poly mesh for each premium car so with tessellation it would from a distance being to smooth out the details as you draw closer and reduce the detail as you pull away. If this isn't how it works then that is one quite useless system as it would look nice as you get closer but pop out as you increase distance from the object. I'm quite positive that tessellation works when coming close or drawing away. Anyone who knows how this works can shed some light on the subject, I'm just basing this off what I assume would be a default reason for adding such a complex system to GT6 as in GT5 only certain things actually popped into low detail(exposed engines and interiors).

I'm not saying tessellation causes the boxy look, I'm saying that it's not calculating or activating is what is causing the lower detail object to be show. Tessellation I assume is supposed to work seamlessly and you(average user) shouldn't notice it at all. Tessellation calculations happen in realtime so I suppose it has minimum and maximum threshold limits, so when you get nice and close it should allow for maximum detail and when you pull away it should start scaling back in order to give the correct appearance at the distance so things don't get muddled which is worsened by having low definition output source as well. Think GT2 when a cars goes off in the distance it looks rather horrible and less like polygons and more like pixels. My thoughts tessellation is an on demand renderer, which can increase detail or decrease it according to set limits based on viewpoint and distance. I have no real idea about it but this is what I am guessing what it probably means. If you are fluent in this sort of technology I would surely like to know more, and possibly hope that this is refined more for PS4 as PS3 has little to no more grunt to attempt such a complicated and demanding process.
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Tessellation can only increase detail. You can, however, use it to make the LOD transition a lot smoother. This is done by taking a lower LOD model and tessellating it to the same detail as the high LOD model. This basically makes the transition unnoticeable.

I'm not sure if this is the way it is used in practice, they may use other tricks to reduce the pop, but that's how I would do it.
 
emula
I hope tessellation will be applied on all premium cars on PS4
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I'm more or less expecting that, given how much more powerful the PS4 is compared to the PS3. I'd be slightly disappointed if they didn't do that, really. :indiff:
 
55e9dfc9f8e2df5542f4b1e765113fc8.png

Tessellation working on Ford GT40... sorta
 
Interesting thread, good pics!
Some insane detail in the photomode models.

PaMu1337
Tessellation can only increase detail. You can, however, use it to make the LOD transition a lot smoother. This is done by taking a lower LOD model and tessellating it to the same detail as the high LOD model. This basically makes the transition unnoticeable.

I'm not sure if this is the way it is used in practice, they may use other tricks to reduce the pop, but that's how I would do it.
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It's correct that the process of tessellation can only increase detail (of curved surfaces), but that doesn't guarantee that everything will always appear in higher detail in a game in practice compared to a game which doesn't use it. The base mesh can be lower detail than the models in gt5, so you might see drops in quality which are done for performance reasons.
 
Beat the Beat
It's correct that the process of tessellation can only increase detail (of curved surfaces), but that doesn't guarantee that everything will always appear in higher detail in a game in practice compared to a game which doesn't use it. The base mesh can be lower detail than the models in gt5, so you might see drops in quality which are done for performance reasons.
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Is not the case with GT6. With the permision of emula:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/gt6-screenshots-videos.282212/page-316#post-9156094

GT5
r0jg.jpg

GT6
0f04.jpg

GT5
lsk7.jpg

GT6
c7ug.jpg
 
Zer0
Is not the case with GT6. With the permision of emula:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/gt6-screenshots-videos.282212/page-316#post-9156094


GT5
lsk7.jpg

GT6
c7ug.jpg
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I posted a question in another thread, about interior detail in race mode. I noticed after 1.06 update, that I get only low-poly dashboards in photomode (in race mode). Tested Mazda RX-8, RX-7, Peugeot RC-Z. Somebody can confirm this?

EDIT: Looks like this is a Car related issue. Just tested Countach '74 and Pùnto Abarth and their's interiors is high-poly.
 
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Ramosis
I posted a question in another thread, about interior detail in race mode. I noticed after 1.06 update, that I get only low-poly dashboards in photomode (in race mode). Tested Mazda RX-8, RX-7, Peugeot RC-Z. Somebody can confirm this?

EDIT: Looks like this is a Car related issue. Just tested Countach '74 and Pùnto Abarth and their's interiors is high-poly.
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In older cars it depends on the point of the track and if there are other cars near
 
emula
In older cars it depends on the point of the track and if there are other cars near
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Tested in Free Run, with just one car on track, in various parts of the track (Ascari, Monza and Silverstone Stowe).
 
I notice that tesselation doesn't work in replay photomode..
I was using Test Drive function in my garage to get a shot of my lamborghini diablo GT2 '98 in action (forgot which track), then found out the tires are still too boxy..
It's a shame because I like taking photographs of moving vehicle instead of just Photo Travel :indiff:
 
It's weird that cars like the Stratos, Toyota 2000GT and CTS-V are coined as high tessellation cars, because (in race mode) I have noticed very noticeable 'negative tessellation' if you will. All 3 were tested at Brands Hatch and Willow Springs. With the Caddy I noticed the exhausts were hexagonal (stock and racing exhaust). The Stratos - both the pop ups and the after-market spotlight upgrade were very boxy from ALL views - the same went for the pop ups on the 2000GT. The Stratos is the only one I did more than one lap in - the lights stayed blocky for most of the lap until somewhere near Turn 8 (Stirling's bend, penultimate corner) where they rounded off, until the last corner, where they became once again jagged.

It's odd that I haven't noticed anything like this with the older cars. Except the interior on the SL55 AMG which is particularly noticeable in all modes. The Diablo GT2's interior has one or two jagged edges when compared with some other cars, too.

@Thrawn - I also noticed that with the GT40 - part of the reason why I put some Classic Wire wheels on it.
 
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lbpomg95
It's weird that cars like the Stratos, Toyota 2000GT and CTS-V are coined as high tessellation cars, because (in race mode) I have noticed very noticeable 'negative tessellation' if you will. All 3 were tested at Brands Hatch and Willow Springs. With the Caddy I noticed the exhausts were hexagonal (stock and racing exhaust). The Stratos - both the pop ups and the after-market spotlight upgrade were very boxy from ALL views - the same went for the pop ups on the 2000GT. The Stratos is the only one I did more than one lap in - the lights stayed blocky for most of the lap until somewhere near Turn 8 (Stirling's bend, penultimate corner) where they rounded off, until the last corner, where they became once again jagged.

It's odd that I haven't noticed anything like this with the older cars. Except the interior on the SL55 AMG which is particularly noticeable in all modes. The Diablo GT2's interior has one or two jagged edges when compared with some other cars, too.

@Thrawn - I also noticed that with the GT40 - part of the reason why I put some Classic Wire wheels on it.
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hardvibes
No tesselation for the Huayra. What a disgrace!
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Huayra
1zsjrr.jpg

20ljex.jpg

34rkrt.jpg

4q6jrw.jpg



Stratos
5yorne.jpg

6gfpwb.jpg

7whrid.jpg

8tpoh6.jpg



Toyota 2000
94zosj.jpg

10n1onn.jpg

11jwrpo.jpg

12xapdm.jpg



in one pic
immagine1vb4n.jpg
 
Is it possible that the older meshes just haven't been "set up" for tessellation? I suspect they'd have to be packaged in a different way in order for the tessellation process to run efficiently (pulling vertices out in a certain "order", say).

It's also clear from the original wireframe demonstration that PD's implementation of tessellation can do "negative subdivision" as well, that is: mesh simplification on the fly, so no need for discrete LoD models (except maybe the lowest and highest only) on those cars, either.

In this case, I suspect that "tessellation" is really just describing a whole family of mesh topology navigation and refinement techniques in use in the game, hence the need to package the vertices in a certain way, perhaps. The fact that the Huayra, and (from memory) the Mercedes VGT as another example, don't use it implies that either those cars are "older" than some others that do use it, or PD just didn't get around to "re-packaging" their meshes once they got tessellation working. Even if that can't be rectified for GT6 (i.e. via an update), it shouldn't be an issue for a PS4 game.


Those are some great comparisons by the way, emula. Really quite dramatic in their illustrative power! I wonder if GT5's photomode was the same? I seem to recall wheelarches and such were smoother in general in GT5 than the average "non-tessellated" car in GT6, but that may just be my imagination clouding my memory.
 
Griffith500
Is it possible that the older meshes just haven't been "set up" for tessellation? I suspect they'd have to be packaged in a different way in order for the tessellation process to run efficiently (pulling vertices out in a certain "order", say).

It's also clear from the original wireframe demonstration that PD's implementation of tessellation can do "negative subdivision" as well, that is: mesh simplification on the fly, so no need for discrete LoD models (except maybe the lowest and highest only) on those cars, either.

In this case, I suspect that "tessellation" is really just describing a whole family of mesh topology navigation and refinement techniques in use in the game, hence the need to package the vertices in a certain way, perhaps. The fact that the Huayra, and (from memory) the Mercedes VGT as another example, don't use it implies that either those cars are "older" than some others that do use it, or PD just didn't get around to "re-packaging" their meshes once they got tessellation working. Even if that can't be rectified for GT6 (i.e. via an update), it shouldn't be an issue for a PS4 game.


Those are some great comparisons by the way, emula. Really quite dramatic in their illustrative power! I wonder if GT5's photomode was the same? I seem to recall wheelarches and such were smoother in general in GT5 than the average "non-tessellated" car in GT6, but that may just be my imagination clouding my memory.
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Thanks :) however, no the numbers of polygons in GT5 was the same

GT5
1smfbn.jpg

GT6
2sde2e.jpg


GT5
3oyixl.jpg

GT6
4wvd4j.jpg


GT5
7efery.jpg

GT6
8p8dzt.jpg
 
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Does anyone get the feeling that tessellation came into the PD office half way through GT6's creation? Because the Huayra is a GT5 style car and the Stratos is a GT6 style car (shape wise in modelling) so I'm getting the feeling they made the Pagani before the Stratos and someone added the tessellation mid build to allow for the detail seen in the Lancia?

The tessellation may have also been added just after the PS4 was announced (mid-build) and they adapted so they could practice getting the perfect photo-realistic car models for the next gen?

I could be massively wrong though.
 
Is this super high detail only seen in photomode? It's quite stunning, imagine of all of the cars had that level of detail.. :drool:
 
I'm amazed by the detail, quite mindblowing. That quality can definitely last another generation. Nice and interesting @emula.

ColouredBadger
Does anyone get the feeling that tessellation came into the PD office half way through GT6's creation? Because the Huayra is a GT5 style car and the Stratos is a GT6 style car (shape wise in modelling) so I'm getting the feeling they made the Pagani before the Stratos and someone added the tessellation mid build to allow for the detail seen in the Lancia?

The tessellation may have also been added just after the PS4 was announced (mid-build) and they adapted so they could practice getting the perfect photo-realistic car models for the next gen?

I could be massively wrong though.
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I could be wrong on this, it's just an idea. If you compare the Statos with a Huayra there's a quite a difference in polygon count, well I would assume if you look at their body. The Huayra is quite round with curved edges, whereas the Stratos seems to have a pretty straightforward design. Same for the Countach, seems like a pretty easy car to create.
Another factor could be interior detail perhaps. In general older cars and race cars seem to have a more simplistic interior than newer (street) cars. I didn't really check if "my theory" would apply for all cars, but it does for the cars I'm thinking of right now. :P

You could be right however, like @Griffith500 said, might have to do with implementation.
 
ColouredBadger
Does anyone get the feeling that tessellation came into the PD office half way through GT6's creation? Because the Huayra is a GT5 style car and the Stratos is a GT6 style car (shape wise in modelling) so I'm getting the feeling they made the Pagani before the Stratos and someone added the tessellation mid build to allow for the detail seen in the Lancia?

The tessellation may have also been added just after the PS4 was announced (mid-build) and they adapted so they could practice getting the perfect photo-realistic car models for the next gen?

I could be massively wrong though.
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I think the same thing
 

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