The new AI - your thoughts

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CLowndes888
I got rammed by a Viper in the expert event...
The AI were making real-world mistakes of which I'd never seen-running wide and going off track. When completing this race, there was a freight train of 4 cars fighting for top spot along with me, and what happened was quite interesting. When coming up to the hairpin before Spoon, everyone was bunched up and then I completely muffed up going out of the corner. The TommyKaira that was leading the pack sped off, so I felt pissed at myself for making the mistake. I caught up to him on the last lap, but that wasn't it-I had a brilliant exit off Spoon corner, so it was a drag race leading up to the big sweeper. I managed to pass him after he slowed down a tiny bit just before entering the sweeper. I couldn't believe how tight it was so close to the finish!
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That expert event, the AI was just plain dumb a majority of the time. Their was some signs of decent (key word decent) AI leading up to some bone headed mistakes. Basically I was coming around that large left hand curve on Apricot Raceway and two LFAs were fighting for position of 1st and 2nd. I start drafting 2nd place after it straightens out, and as I try to pass, he swerves to make sure I don't. I was like okay...this is new, but it all went to crap when I came up on the next right hander after the straight as 1st and 2nd both overshot the braking points right off into the sand trap. I noticed a lot in this event that the AI was either ramming me or misjudging their braking points off into the sand traps. Sometimes, I am quite confused at what this "AI" is trying to accomplish.
 
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I just finished the Expert A Spec Seasonal Event at Spa. What a freakin' joke this AI is. At the top of the hill (the Kemmel Straight) I am hard on my brakes to go thru the chicane. The AI cars are either shooting thru the chicane at 150mph, so even if they get a few sec penalty they've travelled so much distance I'm now chasing after them again for 30 seconds, or they slam into my ass and I get penalized. Great...

Then, after hauling ass through Blanchimont and hitting the brakes hard again for the Bus Stop chicane, the AI is once again Dukes of Hazzard'ing at 150mph, just catapulting past me. I fight to regain position and I have this Mercedes Sauber that I swear to God thought he would score points for trying to ram me off the road.

Thank sweet baby Jesus, these fools also slam into each other and/or overshoot corners and end up in the sand pits... I probably would have finished 5th, but I ended up 2nd (21 seconds behind the leader) because when I got to the bus stop chicane on lap 5 three AI cars were slammed into each other on the infield of the bus stop chicane and I was able to scoot past them. These are all cars I passed several times in the race but they would just catapult past me without any infractions.

They can't leave the AI like this. It's ridiculous.
 
Lewis_Hamilton_
Why the attitude?

I said different programming and different resources, different programming will end with different results even if the intial data input was the same, different resources means different amount of people and hours being dedicated to AI. What part of that is wrong or "bla bla bla cliche"?

If you have 10 people working months on AI, you're likely to have some decent AI. If you have one person working a couple of weeks on AI, you're not going to get the same quality result. Point out any part of the entire GT series where the AI looks like it's had a decent amount of time and resources put into it.

You should not expect the same result with something when it has had different people working on it, a different amount of staff, with different targets and different policies for them to follow in their respectful studios, all while aiming the product to a different niche audience.
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As I said that's a silly cliche based on zero facts since decent AI was possible several years ago with much worse hardware than PS3.
 
Hard to see the new AI as an improvement. If the AI makes an occasional mistake when under pressure or when pushing too hard it's a good thing but the keyword is occasional! At the moment they're flying off the track everywhere & trying to take you with them for good measure. It's like dodgems out there. When they can keep it on the black stuff, they are faster. I guess that's an improvement.
 
AI improved for a short while (a week or so). During that period they were faster, fighting for position against you and the other AI. Big fun, almost real racing.
During that period it was almost undoable to win Nürburg 24' races with less powered cars. But it did not take long for them to go back to normal, at least in mentioned races. Still somewhat faster, but that's all. Not a challenge any more.

In the seasonals they show different behavior: sometimes (really) fast, sometimes fighting, making a lot of mistakes etc...
I even saw AI leaving his racing line to let me overtake him !!

I really wonder wat PD is doing (testing for GT7 ?)
 
I don't like the AI that much. Even though having they make errors makes them feel more alive, I hate when they do it on every lap in the same corner. 👎

The worst case I had at Spa was when on the last lap the 2nd-placed AI racer braked too late, cut across the last chicane, got in front of me and won... :mad:

Though, they do seem to be faster, which is a 👍 from me. Now, if only "chase the rabbit" races were replaced by proper grid or close rolling starts, like it was in the previous GT games.
 
GTracer98
The worst case I had at Spa was when on the last lap the 2nd-placed AI racer braked too late, cut across the last chicane, got in front of me and won... :mad:
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The first time I raced the Expert Level Spec A Seasonal Event at Spa this week, the same thing was happening to me. Cars kept shooting through the last chicane, basically negating all of the overtaking I had done the previous lap! It was extremely frustrating. There was one Mercedes Sauber that was particularly offensive. Not only would he shoot through chicanes at 150+ MPH, but he would deliberately ram into me whenever I got along side of him! I was losing my mind racing against this car. LOL

I ran the same race again today and the cars behaved much differently. Yes, they were still more aggressive than the AI was two weeks ago. They drove harder, hit the brakes later and blocked me on several dive bomb attempts. That I can live with. I didn't notice a single car Dukes of Hazzard it through any chicanes, which was a welcome relief! One strange thing happened, however, on lap 5 of 5. After turn 15 (Slavelot), the leading car whom I was bearing down on fast just overshot turn 16 at incredible speed and flew deep into the sand pit. He ended up finishing 5th.

I had to wonder if this was the AI trying to let me win, almost like the way the old AI would intentionally slow down on the last lap to give you a chance to catch him. I was going to pass him regardless, but it would have been more rewarding to actually overtake him and not watch him fly into the sand.
 
Having just run the international A 15-minutes race on Apricot Hill, the Ai seems on another level than this seasonal, https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ss-non-racecar-challenge-apricot-hill.312191/ , it makes me think that there are different AI logics.

I am thinking that for this seasonal,and any others, PD might beta testing some sort Drivatar that is based on the reactions of average online players... just like Forza...

But because they cannot announce it officially, they (PD) might could be still developing the system...
 
ALB123
The first time I raced the Expert Level Spec A Seasonal Event at Spa this week, the same thing was happening to me. Cars kept shooting through the last chicane, basically negating all of the overtaking I had done the previous lap! It was extremely frustrating. There was one Mercedes Sauber that was particularly offensive. Not only would he shoot through chicanes at 150+ MPH, but he would deliberately ram into me whenever I got along side of him! I was losing my mind racing against this car. LOL

I ran the same race again today and the cars behaved much differently. Yes, they were still more aggressive than the AI was two weeks ago. They drove harder, hit the brakes later and blocked me on several dive bomb attempts. That I can live with. I didn't notice a single car Dukes of Hazzard it through any chicanes, which was a welcome relief! One strange thing happened, however, on lap 5 of 5. After turn 15 (Slavelot), the leading car whom I was bearing down on fast just overshot turn 16 at incredible speed and flew deep into the sand pit. He ended up finishing 5th.

I had to wonder if this was the AI trying to let me win, almost like the way the old AI would intentionally slow down on the last lap to give you a chance to catch him. I was going to pass him regardless, but it would have been more rewarding to actually overtake him and not watch him fly into the sand.
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Slavelot... :lol: I'm sure you meant Stavelot. :sly:

But yeah, while mistakes are a cool addition, they are a bit overexaggerated. Once in the same Spa race, in the last lap I got properly scared by a sudden smash in the back of my car, which sent both me and the AI off in the gravel...

I think the biggest problem with the AI in all GT games always has been their early braking points and slow exit speed. It's like they follow the technique "slow-in, slow-out". :D
 
The AI in these events remind me GT5's B-spec. Those mistakes seem to happen more frequently when they are under pressure (more agressive?) and near the end of the race (getting tired?). The way they drive also seems familiar (lifting the gas before braking, getting wheelspin when going agressive)
 
CTznOfTime
Having just run the international A 15-minutes race on Apricot Hill, the Ai seems on another level than this seasonal, https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ss-non-racecar-challenge-apricot-hill.312191/ , it makes me think that there are different AI logics.

I am thinking that for this seasonal,and any others, PD might beta testing some sort Drivatar that is based on the reactions of average online players... just like Forza...

But because they cannot announce it officially, they (PD) might could be still developing the system...
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Adaptive AI is definitely the way to go IMO, along with well programmed standard AI. I've never played Forza so I don't know how well it works there, but with the right coding (and sliders to go along with it) for situational awareness, aggressiveness, defensiveness etc. it has the best potential for any AI system IMO.
 
HKS racer
As I said that's a silly cliche based on zero facts since decent AI was possible several years ago with much worse hardware than PS3.
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And what were the tracks made of? Were the cars using the real physics model? There is a lot more to AI than you seem to realize. GT's AI seems to be programmed the hard way, not using cheats. The AI uses a complex physics model (its easier if you cut most of it back) and they also seem to use real inputs. Plus they are not tied to the track, then can go anywhere the player can.

Also GT has so many tracks, a lot of games will put AI helpers in the track, like invisible objects telling the AI when to brake when they are hit, what part of the road to head for, that sort of thing. However I doubt PD is doing this, especially with things like the track creator. I think PD is developing a more true AI, just a car that senses the world around it and drives rather than a car that is told about the world around it and just follows simple rules.

Sure the results at this stage are perhaps not as good as can be achieved by cheating or using simpler code tricks, but credit where credit is due. I think if they keep following this path good things will happen.


EDIT: and while on AI, I was playing Assetto Corsa and that game would love to have GT's AI. Their AI is stupid, they don't seem to have any side sensors at all. If you are beside an AI and that AI wants to swing out for a corner, watch out. Also they can often come to an almost complete stop in chicanes. Then there are real humans.

In iRacing last night driving on a straight the car beside me does a pit maneuver on me for no reason at all sending me spinning in front of the pack causing chaos. That is the pinnacle of AI, to act like a human, yet if AI did that everyone would moan about how bad the AI was...
 
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GTracer98
Slavelot... :lol: I'm sure you meant Stavelot. :sly:
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Yes! I typed that on my phone and thought I had proofread for any weird auto-correct changes, but I guess I missed that one. Thank you for the correction. :)

hardvibes
Yesterday I decided to try the SPA race....

At some point I saw on my map 4 cars in the sand trap ahead. , I thought there was some kind of reunion going on

Trust me guys, the spooky AI is planning something
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The Spa race is definitely the worst of the new AI experiences for me. I wonder if it's because the PP is higher? Having said that, I ran the Spa race again and I didn't see even 10% of the craziness I saw in the first race. I'll have to try it again and report back.
 
The AI will catch you if given enough time after youve passed them. They make more mistakes amongst themselves. Once youre at the front they (somewhat) get their act together and challenge you instead of eachother. If they made less out-braking themselves, theyd be a good challenge. That is if youre running a slightly lesser car to make it interesting; at least in my experience.
 
Jaywalker
Anyone else seen them taking the short-cut at the bus stop at Spa?
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They do that all the time.
One of them even pushed me straight ahead, and I ended passing the leader and take the win, in stead of finishing second.
I found out that you can take the short cut also. You 're not getting penalized either, as long as you stay off the accelerator.
Hey, if they can, why not we :D
 
I guess the GT6 in it's current version is not FIA Approved :lol:
they cut and don't get penalties and ram into opponents
mhh .. wait.. it remember me some F1 races from this year, maybe my guess is wrong after all :D

I wonder if they are not just making fun on us
Let's see how we can piss players more than in last patch :rolleyes:
 
Johnnypenso
Adaptive AI is definitely the way to go IMO, along with well programmed standard AI. I've never played Forza so I don't know how well it works there, but with the right coding (and sliders to go along with it) for situational awareness, aggressiveness, defensiveness etc. it has the best potential for any AI system IMO.
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The first NFS Shift had an adaptable system whuch was a real challenge. All aids off and AI set to the most difficult level and unless you had the right car - watch those puppies vanish into the sunset. (They vanished with a lot more realistic engine sounds too!):)
 
Mercury1
The first NFS Shift had an adaptable system whuch was a real challenge. All aids off and AI set to the most difficult level and unless you had the right car - watch those puppies vanish into the sunset. (They vanished with a lot more realistic engine sounds too!):)
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Most games' AI are cheaters. More power definitely and more grip too maybe. I remember clearly this from many old games.
 
This 'new' AI is terrible. Even more terrible than how they usually are. To be honest I think it's a bug in the game with these seasonals, not new AI. They still slow down in the final two laps too.

Yes, I can understand it's more spectacular to some people to see other cars go off track and getting bumped. I think it's a joke. Drive that new Spa seasonal a couple of times and at some point you'll see 4 cars standing still in the first hairpin bumping eachother trying to make the turn only to then bump into the barrier again. Ah well, gave me a good laugh atleast.
 
Hey guys, yesterday won the mid difficulty seasonal A-spec in Apricot in C7 Corvette. I put SH on it and AI have SM. When I got first, the 2nd placed AI stepped up the pace and for the remaining 2.5 laps he lapped just the same as me, resulting in 0.5" behind. Cose win, very nice AI speed, no crazy driving. I suspect PD experiments with different levels of AI for B-spec right now. I very much liked this one's AI! PD!!! Put it in all A-spec races in GT from now on and update off-line AI to this level please.
 
Having run two sets of these now, I think now been able to form opinion about how the new AI works:

It's not better. Not at all. It's doesn't appear to be much if any faster either(assuming you can tell with the rubber-banding), they just had more heavily tuned cars in the Suzuka event which made it appear that way. Having AI that intentionally miss corners by hundreds of feet on a regular basis is not an improvement. If there is no way to improve them at all without doing this, then I'd much rather stick with what we had, and add an option for "high-medium-low-no rubberband catchup."

To sum it up...
Dear Polyphony Digital, can you please stop using the "Expert Seasonal" AI? Can you please not use it any more at all, starting with the next seasonal update? Thank you.
 
Morgoth_666
Having run two sets of these now, I think now been able to form opinion about how the new AI works:

It's not better. Not at all. It's doesn't appear to be much if any faster either(assuming you can tell with the rubber-banding), they just had more heavily tuned cars in the Suzuka event which made it appear that way. Having AI that intentionally miss corners by hundreds of feet on a regular basis is not an improvement. If there is no way to improve them at all without doing this, then I'd much rather stick with what we had, and add an option for "high-medium-low-no rubberband catchup."

To sum it up...
Dear Polyphony Digital, can you please stop using the "Expert Seasonal" AI? Can you please not use it any more at all, starting with the next seasonal update? Thank you.
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I don't think so. Now career mode is so boring with dull AI with no soul inside their cars. Now seasonal events just give me a change for fun and competitive game. If there is no more this kind of AI(of course, more advanced AI is better), I will not play GT 6 any longer.
 

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