GT6 Sales Discussion

[machschnel]

Nothing PD does will help or hinder general GT6 sales into the future. They will be what they will be. The general public is never going to learn about the updates and it is only they who might possibly be in the market for GT6 at this stage.

This thread makes me fear for humanity. The ridiculous logic on display is scary because the people actually believe it. A sale is not a sale if it is discounted... Ok (the question was what are sales numbers, not what are PD's financials ). PD is 'whoring' the game out to bargain bins even though they have nothing at all to do with setting the price.. Ok. We now live in an alternate reality where GT5 was not heavily discounted after the launch period... Ok... I just shouldn't enter these threads. No amount of logical argument is going to turn someone who believes this crap into someone with the ability to see the truth and construct a logical evidence based argument. Pointless.

And for the record, why do the main... lets say 'contributors' to this thread have such a strong emotional attachment to sales numbers of a product?

Well you you "entered" a thread you knew you shouldn't, then argued your point even though you knew "no amount of logical argument is going to turn someone", so you're obviously being driven by emotion rather than logic.

Nasanu, why do you have such a strong emotional attachment to the sales numbers of a product?

 

[nasanu]

Well you you "entered" a thread you knew you shouldn't, then argued your point even though you knew "no amount of logical argument is going to turn someone", so you're obviously being driven by emotion rather than logic.

Nasanu, why do you have such a strong emotional attachment to the sales numbers of a product?

You are getting this wrong. What gets to me is what I see as stupidity. That is what emotionally effects me, the topic generally does not matter. And yes I know my faults, this does not mean that I can always overcome them.

 

[mr_serious]

You are getting this wrong. What gets to me is what I see as stupidity. That is what emotionally effects me, the topic generally does not matter. And yes I know my faults, this does not mean that I can always overcome them.

Actually it can matter to someone who is emotionally invested in the game - whether you are someone who loves GT5 & 6 or hates them.

Ultimately they make the game to get sales, if sales are strong it vindicates PD's current ideas and direction & they will carry on along this path. If the sales begin to fall, eventually PD will attempt something different to regain its appeal.

So for me, who happened to hate GT5 so much I didn't buy GT6 - poor sales numbers gives me hope that PD will get back to the core of what makes a racing game.

So yes, I care about sales numbers. I'm also 100% sure that both PD and Sony do as well.

 

[nasanu]

Actually it can matter to someone who is emotionally invested in the game - whether you are someone who loves GT5 & 6 or hates them.

Ultimately they make the game to get sales, if sales are strong it vindicates PD's current ideas and direction & they will carry on along this path. If the sales begin to fall, eventually PD will attempt something different to regain its appeal.

So for me, who happened to hate GT5 so much I didn't buy GT6 - poor sales numbers gives me hope that PD will get back to the core of what makes a racing game.

So yes, I care about sales numbers. I'm also 100% sure that both PD and Sony do as well.

But its a matter of interpretation. It would be very easy for PD to take the view that GT needs to be Need for Speed. After all GT6 was more realistic in physics and suffered reduced sales. Or they could see that they listened to the community with GT6 (addressing some major complaints like menu load times) and this resulted in reduced sales, so for GT7 they should do the opposite of what the community wants.

Taking the view that X sales means PD heads in direction Y is far too simplistic.

 

[mr_serious]

But its a matter of interpretation. It would be very easy for PD to take the view that GT needs to be Need for Speed. After all GT6 was more realistic in physics and suffered reduced sales. Or they could see that they listened to the community with GT6 (addressing some major complaints like menu load times) and this resulted in reduced sales, so for GT7 they should do the opposite of what the community wants.

Taking the view that X sales means PD heads in direction Y is far too simplistic.

Yes of course it is down to interpretation, which is why it is a point of discussion!

For example..

If the sales begin to fall, eventually PD will attempt something different to regain its appeal.

So for me, who happened to hate GT5 so much I didn't buy GT6 - poor sales numbers gives me hope that PD will get back to the core of what makes a racing game.

The bold sentence is what PD might do, ie non-specific, because they may well attribute low sales to something else. The second sentence indicates why I think the sales are poor and hints at what I hope PD might do to rectify it.

This is a [discussion] forum, for discussing things, whether speculation or fact or opinion makes no difference. If you don't want to discuss a subject don't read or post in a thread about it.

 

[jimipitbull]

This is a [discussion] forum, for discussing things, whether speculation or fact or opinion makes no difference. If you don't want to discuss a subject don't read or post in a thread about it.

When a thread is titled such as this one, four days after GT6 release, with no actual sales numbers, you must wonder what purpose the thread creator had in mind. I'm surprised the moderators let it continue.

Six months later, possible retail sales numbers from Japan have been posted. These exclude digital sales, as do all the dubious VGChatz numbers quoted. So we are still no closer to confirming or denying what the OP suggests.

But PD went to Nurburgring, which would have cost a lot of money. All updates, additional content have been free. So one would assume the sales figures are actually quite good.

 

[CeeJay]

Oof those numbers are pretty low.. it is just one market & the Japanese home console market is on its last legs so lower sales are probably more an indication of the overall poor market & not something just affecting GT. Man, speaking as a videogamer (not just a GT fan) it almost hurts to see the Japanese home console market these days. How I miss the PS2 era & all of those glorious games!! * sigh * memories..

 

[mr_serious]

When a thread is titled such as this one, four days after GT6 release, with no actual sales numbers, you must wonder what purpose the thread creator had in mind. I'm surprised the moderators let it continue.

Six months later, possible retail sales numbers from Japan have been posted. These exclude digital sales, as do all the dubious VGChatz numbers quoted. So we are still no closer to confirming or denying what the OP suggests.

But PD went to Nurburgring, which would have cost a lot of money. All updates, additional content have been free. So one would assume the sales figures are actually quite good.

I'm sure it has been said before, but if the numbers were good, don't you think Sony / PD would have released them?

 

[jimipitbull]

I'm sure it has been said before, but if the numbers were good, don't you think Sony / PD would have released them?

I think they will release the numbers for full year of sales, so December/January.

 

[MXH]

I think they will release the numbers for full year of sales, so December/January.

But will they release the sell-in numbers (to retailers) or actual sell-through numbers (to consumers) - in order to make it look better if the sales are indeed disappointing?

 

[jimipitbull]

But will they release the sell-in numbers (to retailers) or actual sell-through numbers (to consumers) - in order to make it look better if the sales are indeed disappointing?

Do you really think every retailer will contact PD to report how many copies they have sold at each store?

 

[MXH]

Do you really think every retailer will contact PD to report how many copies they have sold at each store?

What?! I'm not entirely sure how it works, but getting sell-through numbers is pretty much standard. Either way, sell-in numbers doesn't tell us anything else besides how many they've shipped.

 

[Tornado]

PD's numbers have always been shipped numbers.

 

[MXH]

PD's numbers have always been shipped numbers.

Really? Oh, ha...so much for bragging about those 70 million units.

 

[jimipitbull]

What?! I'm not entirely sure how it works, but getting sell-through numbers is pretty much standard. Either way, sell-in numbers doesn't tell us anything else besides how many they've shipped.

Standard? Can you supply a link, or source, or is this speculation?

 

[MXH]

Standard? Can you supply a link, or source, or is this speculation?

NPD? Media Create? Chart-Track?

 

[jimipitbull]

NPD? Media Create? Chart-Track?

So you expect a developer to use these these games chart sites to report sales figures to their board of directors and publish these results on their corporate profile?

Can you tell us How those sites can track digital sales from PSN?

 

[Tornado]

NPD, Media Create and Chart-Track aren't "games chart sites;" and yes, I would expect a developer to use their findings on their corporate profile. That is in fact the entire point of professional market research companies like those three are, after all. Anything else?

 

[jimipitbull]

NPD, Media Create and Chart-Track aren't "games chart sites;" and yes, I would expect a developer to use their findings on their corporate profile. That is in fact the entire point of professional market research companies like those three are, after all. Anything else?

You expect it because Nintendo did?

I would expect PD to report sales they made to retailers, and digital sales. They are the numbers that are relevant to their profit/loss for the financial year.

 

[Johnnypenso]

NPD, Media Create and Chart-Track aren't "games chart sites;" and yes, I would expect a developer to use their findings on their corporate profile. That is in fact the entire point of professional market research companies like those three are, after all. Anything else?

Wasn't PD quick to release sales figures for GT5?

 

[Tornado]

You expect it because Nintendo did?

I expect it because one of the three big publishers in the industry does exactly that, and that was specifically what you asked. Here it is again:

So you expect a developer to use these these games chart sites to report sales figures to their board of directors and publish these results on their corporate profile?

You blatantly dismissed the groups mentioned as "games chart sites" even though those three groups aren't VGChartz numbers used in internet dick swinging arguments, and are in fact highly regarded professional market research firms which exist solely to gather that data for companies like Sony or Nintendo or Microsoft; but, again, question answered: Yes, I do think developers would use market research firm data when conducting investor relations.
The example I posted above is where a company did both, as something posted on the corporate section of their website and originally delivered as a keynote address by the company president. Here's another one, from Microsoft this time and involving NPD instead of Media Create, put out as an official press release "written" by the head of the entertainment division at the time. And look, another one, this one on Microsoft's main community blog. Investors probably aren't nearly as interested in that as the other two, but it's still something put out on an official Microsoft channel specifically as preparation for the largest tradeshow in the industry.



It's almost as if publishers pay those professional market research companies to research the market professionally. So I'll change my question: Any more goalposts you'd like to move?

I would expect PD to report sales they made to retailers, and digital sales. They are the numbers that are relevant to their profit/loss for the financial year.

Of course, I'm sure shareholders hold no interest at all in product returned to Sony by the retailers. Or how strong "through sales" are on important days of the year, like Black Friday or holidays, for the purpose of maintaining retailer relations. Or the negative image and clogging of the sales channel caused by product sitting on store shelves year round while competing products are perpetually out of stock. And when external financial reports that the companies pay to have access to are dramatically different from internal claimed sales numbers (that'd be "shipped vs. sold"), I doubt there are any questions raised by investors then either.

 

[WrxScooby]

Well after browsing through this thread and reading all the good info as well as lots of different opinions I have come to the conclusion that I made the right choice(Personally) by not buying GT6. It came to fast after GT5 and never really progressed the way the others did. From what I have read/seen GT6 was more of a update vs full game, and that's a shame being a GT fan.

For me anyway GT was the last standing exclusive that I really loved on Playstation, and was really the last thing keeping me in the family. In this instance GT is losing a long time fan as well as Sony is losing a long time gamer. Now that both next gens require a online fee I can only justify paying for one, and I think this just shifted the tides for me.

 

[Zer0]

Really? Oh, ha...so much for bragging about those 70 million units.

Do you understand that the shipments units are supplied on demand and in many batches during all the life of a game? and that if the retailers don't sell the first batches don't buy more copies?. If a title keeps adding distributed sales years after year is because a real user-demand still exists, and that is how a GT title reach its totals at the end of its lifetime. So the impressive 70M.

NPD? Media Create? Chart-Track?

Is not difficult to understand why the distributed (official) sales are the most accurate indicator. All the third party researchers, are that, researchers. They track partially the market based on some sale points, trends and formulas. And they do not track global sales or propietary digital distribution. Shipped sales are the most commonly used officially. And is not just GT, any positive videogame sales or console sales officially released is meant in shipped units.

At times third party numbers are used by companies to study external factors that can't tell the oficially shipped numbers, like market trends when the shipped demand decrease. But its use is anecdotal and don't replace their real sales or are used internally for that.

 

[Forester XT]

Well after browsing through this thread and reading all the good info as well as lots of different opinions I have come to the conclusion that I made the right choice(Personally) by not buying GT6. It came to fast after GT5 and never really progressed the way the others did. From what I have read/seen GT6 was more of a update vs full game, and that's a shame being a GT fan.

For me anyway GT was the last standing exclusive that I really loved on Playstation, and was really the last thing keeping me in the family. In this instance GT is losing a long time fan as well as Sony is losing a long time gamer. Now that both next gens require a online fee I can only justify paying for one, and I think this just shifted the tides for me.

Since GT5 is dead, GT6 is worth the $50-60 just for entertainment value. You will probably enjoy it. Kind of like an extended version of GT5. I still occasionally stick GT5 in and play with it but most of the time I use GT6 or Grid Motorsport. The benefit is they both work on the PS3 and your existing wheel. When GT7 comes out, it wont be worth the cost of a PS4 and a new wheel.

 

[jimipitbull]

I expect it because one of the three big publishers in the industry does exactly that, and that was specifically what you asked. Here it is again:

You blatantly dismissed the groups mentioned as "games chart sites" even though those three groups aren't VGChartz numbers used in internet dick swinging arguments, and are in fact highly regarded professional market research firms which exist solely to gather that data for companies like Sony or Nintendo or Microsoft; but, again, question answered: Yes, I do think developers would use market research firm data when conducting investor relations.
The example I posted above is where a company did both, as something posted on the corporate section of their website and originally delivered as a keynote address by the company president. Here's another one, from Microsoft this time and involving NPD instead of Media Create, put out as an official press release "written" by the head of the entertainment division at the time. And look, another one, this one on Microsoft's main community blog. Investors probably aren't nearly as interested in that as the other two, but it's still something put out on an official Microsoft channel specifically as preparation for the largest tradeshow in the industry.



It's almost as if publishers pay those professional market research companies to research the market professionally. So I'll change my question: Any more goalposts you'd like to move?



Of course, I'm sure shareholders hold no interest at all in product returned to Sony by the retailers. Or how strong "through sales" are on important days of the year, like Black Friday or holidays, for the purpose of maintaining retailer relations. Or the negative image and clogging of the sales channel caused by product sitting on store shelves year round while competing products are perpetually out of stock. And when external financial reports that the companies pay to have access to are dramatically different from internal claimed sales numbers (that'd be "shipped vs. sold"), I doubt there are any questions raised by investors then either.

So how does chart-track differ from vgchartz? Apart from only covering one particular region.

 

[MXH]

Do you understand that the shipments units are supplied on demand and in many batches during all the life of a game? and that if the retailers don't sell the first batches don't buy more copies?. If a title keeps adding distributed sales years after year is because a real user-demand still exists, and that is how a GT title reach its totals at the end of its lifetime. So the impressive 70M.

I do understand it. It was just a failed attempt at being facetious - for a lack of a better word. Obviously they wouldn't have had reached those numbers or warranted seven main games if there wasn't any demand.

I stand corrected on everything else.

So how does chart-track differ from vgchartz? Apart from only covering one particular region.

Their methodologies, I would say. It's clear why VGChartz numbers should be taken with a grain of salt.

The methodology used across all GfK Chart-Track's services is continuous quantitative retail research. GfK Chart-Track reports are based on retail/web sales where the data is captured electronically each day via EPoS systems. Reports are generated using an Oracle relational database, integrated with a custom-built PC-based processing system.

Clients receive a broad range of statistical information from our standard and customised services, enabling them to track market size, market trends and product sales through retail. Data is disseminated to clients on a daily basis, and our monthly, quarterly and annual reports provide invaluable information about longer term sales trends and opportunities.

All sales estimates on VGChartz are arrived at via a number of proprietrary and ever-developing methods:

• Passively polling end users to find out what games they are currently purchasing and playing
• Polling retail partners to find out what games and hardware they are selling
• Using statistical trend fitting and historical data for similar games
• Studying resell prices to determine consumer demand and inventory levels
• Consulting with publishers and manufacturers to find out how many units they are introducing into the channel

All data is regularly checked against manufacturer shipments and data released publicly from other tracking firms to ensure accuracy. VGChartz holds no responsibility for the use of our data – any business decisions made are made at your own risk.

 

[TurismoBad]

Just how much they bought of it ?

13.80 euro at amazon.it

 

[Lawndart]

We use NPD, those other charts are crap.

NPD covers all physical goods and digital purchases not sold through 1st party. 1st otherwise provides the sales data (Sony, steam, ms, Nintendo, Apple, etc.).

We add these together, include the error magin, and metacritic scores and off to the board meeting.

 

[dQuim]

Sales have definitely been lower for GT6. However, we don't know what the budget for the project was. My guess is the total spend for GT6 was much lower than for GT5, especially when you consider the development time was much shorter. I wouldn't be surprised if PD have actually made a profit on GT6. Most developers/publishers would kill for sales of 2-3 million units.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Sales have definitely been lower for GT6. However, we don't know what the budget for the project was. My guess is the total spend for GT6 was much lower than for GT5, especially when you consider the development time was much shorter. I wouldn't be surprised if PD have actually made a profit on GT6. Most developers/publishers would kill for sales of 2-3 million units.

I'd say that only due to how much content and similarity the two games share (5 and 6), however I don't think the budget was too small considering some of the big deals that have come up. Like the FIA, Senna Institute, various VGT which may be seen as free marketing and thus helps PD save money (who knows) and so on don't seem too cheap then you have all the supposed currently worked on content as well which would be part of the GT6 budget unless that's now being allocated to the GT7 one. The point is if what was promised for GT6 is instead delivered in GT7 that means a shift in budget and what ever profit was earned here, due to moving said budget may take out of the next game.

I'd be nice to see an Audit from PD or subsidiary companies owned by Sony rather to compare the ratio between games sold and budget to really gauge how much of a success market wise this game was or wasn't.