Time Trial Mountain Board : every road car from the game tested [793 cars]

[GT_Alex74]

Peugeot made neat little cars up until early 2000's. Now, like everybody else, they've lost the feel that made the greatest GTI days.

I know several people who has or had 106 S16 or Rallye, those cars are definitely fun and well suited for small roads. The S16 is high on the list of cars I consider as a daily for when my MX-5 will go under restomod and after. I even nearly bought a Phase 1 Rallye, looking exactly like that :

But the call for a rear wheel drive was too strong

 

[Niku Driver HC]

Peugeot made neat little cars up until early 2000's. Now, like everybody else, they've lost the feel that made the greatest GTI days.

I know several people who has or had 106 S16 or Rallye, those cars are definitely fun and well suited for small roads. The S16 is high on the list of cars I consider as a daily for when my MX-5 will go under restomod and after. I even nearly bought a Phase 1 Rallye, looking exactly like that :

But the call for a rear wheel drive was too strong

Yeah, the smell of oversteer and cooked tires is too strong to overcome, isn't it? I still think Peugeot makes great cars; I love the way the new 308 looks (and I can't wait for the future GTI and R versions), the 108 is nice-looking and the RCZ R is the stuff of dreams for me. But yeah, if you own a 106 S16\Rallye, don't you sell it unless you have to, they are great hot hatches to drive. 👍

 

[332i]

The tires that come stock on the car factor into the PP system upon purchase. If the car was slower out of the box for whatever reason, it would have a lower PP rating...no matter the reasoning, correct? I don't understand slowing the car down to a performance below what it was intended to be, just because some cars come on comforts. The cars are assigned a base PP and the PP rises from there, based on the given percentage that each mod up power. That's how you end up with cheater cars.

Look at the GTR LM road going version. It has as much downforce as a gt300 car, but it comes on comfort softs lol and of course, low pp rating. Throw it into a 550pp sports soft race online and you will murder the entire field. It's a damn race car. And the ZZII...thing has as much DF as a touring car and it's a rocket in a straight line. I just figure that if you're trying to blow the lid off the PP system, I would record everything into a spreadsheet, then narrow things down. Which tires it comes with at stock PP, torque, displacement, width, length, height, drivetrain designation, LSD and aero specs (if applicable), etc.

In terms of testing linearity between chassis to chassis, it makes sense to put them all on the same tires...but you're throwing that out the window by picking and choosing which cars you use ABS on. We're comparing chassis to chassis in gt6. Not a gt6 chassis to a chassis in real life. I would turn the ABS off on all of them, because it is essentially stability control under braking. And you can hammer the brakes and trailbrake with cars/on tires that you can in no way do so with abs off. You want to compare characteristics and times between cars in gt6...so if you're goal is to out them on an even playing field (which it is), abs on some cars but not others...the two make each other redundant. If it were me, for the same of accuracy and linearity, I'd go back and redo the cars I used abs on. Turn abs off on a MR car that you thought you'd tuned very well, but have never turned abs off on it between tuning and racing it. Suddenly not seen as great tune is what happens, because you've basically nixed out what is essentially traction/stability control for a decelerating tire, rather than an accelerating one. Which seems obvious, but a lot of people forget what abs is actually doing, aside from locking and unlocking rapidly. ABS is one of the most flawed aspects of gt6.

Just suggestions, because as I said, some of these things make the alternative or another test or time redundant.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

Of all the Peugeots in GT6, the one I wish was Premium the most is the 106 Rallye. I love underpowered, tiny, lightweight cars.

 

[GT_Alex74]

The tires that come stock on the car factor into the PP system upon purchase.

Wrong. It seems to be a bit of 3 ways to deal with that.

Most road cars tires are attributed automatically according to their stock PPs, with comfort mediums as the lower limit, and sports hard as the upper limit.
Tuned cars and rally cars seems to be mostly fitted with sport tires, and race cars, excepted a few, are on race hards.
Then, there are some cars which seems to have tires attributed manually (Nismo GT-R, Evo IX, some VGT cars...)

Your statement saying tires influence the PP on purchase can be easily debunked when comparing the Nismo GT-R with the other R35 GT-R's. The Nismo comes stock with sport softs, while all the others are fitted with sports hards. The difference between all of them with comfort softs is pretty much what you would expect from them, as well as their ranking. The Nismo is still faster than the others (though less enjoyable IMO) on the same compound.

If the car was slower out of the box for whatever reason, it would have a lower PP rating...no matter the reasoning, correct? I don't understand slowing the car down to a performance below what it was intended to be, just because some cars come on comforts. The cars are assigned a base PP and the PP rises from there, based on the given percentage that each mod up power. That's how you end up with cheater cars.

I'm not slowing any car's performance down. I already explained why in the OP I run all cars on comfort tires, so you should read it back. Shortly put : sport hards definitely have too much grip to represent legal road tires. Even comforts softs seems a bit high sometimes to me, but still acceptable. Also, when it comes to things like the Elise 111R... seriously, than thing is 50 PP too low ! Even putting sports tires on "regular" 440 Pp cars may not be enough to get the same time as the 111R on comfort softs ! You can't tell me there's not a problem here.

About the PP system from the game : it is calculated primarily on the power, torque, weight, weight distribution, transmission (type, but also diff : you can see that when you look at all the different MX-5 / Miatas, but I'll have a full message when the time comes for me to test them because it is a huge mess)... there seems to be a bunch of little factors in there - I see people refering to grip multipliers here and there, but grip in general dosen't seems to be that much of an influence in PPs) - but some are definitely not taken in account. What I'm doing here is calculating PPs for STOCK cars. Throw in a gearbox, a clutch / flywheel and some race suspension : your PP won't rise, but the car will perform better. Though, the cheater cars manage somehow to stay ahead even when tuned, and cars that have terrible chassis and something like more than 50 PP less in my system will still be a crap pile when tuned. My system is not made for tuned cars or race cars, but I think taking in account de PP delta would still balance out some of the cars in tuning races.

Look at the GTR LM road going version. It has as much downforce as a gt300 car, but it comes on comfort softs lol and of course, low pp rating. Throw it into a 550pp sports soft race online and you will murder the entire field. It's a damn race car. And the ZZII...thing has as much DF as a touring car and it's a rocket in a straight line. I just figure that if you're trying to blow the lid off the PP system, I would record everything into a spreadsheet, then narrow things down. Which tires it comes with at stock PP, torque, displacement, width, length, height, drivetrain designation, LSD and aero specs (if applicable), etc.

I haven't tried that car ever yet on GT6, but what I can tell you is that if you compare it to a GT300 car, the PP are not far considering the weight and torque difference. Go apply some ballast and limit the weight on a GT300 car to achieve a similar power/weight ratio, and you wil see the PPs comes closer.
Also, look at the Impreza road versions and rally versions : PPs are not so far, considering the weight, torque, and aero differences.

In terms of testing linearity between chassis to chassis, it makes sense to put them all on the same tires...but you're throwing that out the window by picking and choosing which cars you use ABS on. We're comparing chassis to chassis in gt6. Not a gt6 chassis to a chassis in real life. I would turn the ABS off on all of them, because it is essentially stability control under braking. And you can hammer the brakes and trailbrake with cars/on tires that you can in no way do so with abs off. You want to compare characteristics and times between cars in gt6...so if you're goal is to out them on an even playing field (which it is), abs on some cars but not others...the two make each other redundant. If it were me, for the same of accuracy and linearity, I'd go back and redo the cars I used abs on. Turn abs off on a MR car that you thought you'd tuned very well, but have never turned abs off on it between tuning and racing it. Suddenly not seen as great tune is what happens, because you've basically nixed out what is essentially traction/stability control for a decelerating tire, rather than an accelerating one. Which seems obvious, but a lot of people forget what abs is actually doing, aside from locking and unlocking rapidly. ABS is one of the most flawed aspects of gt6.

As I already explained, ABS on 0 or 1 doesn't really make a difference on a lap time for me, at least when the cars are not fitted with racing brakes. And ABS on 1, though it is not the best represented thing in the game, really isn't as bad as people like to say when it comes to compare it to modern ABS systems. You still have to adjust the pressure during the decceleration phase in order to turn more as much as when you have no ABS, at 1, it really just prevents from locking in straight line, but if you keep 100% pressure on the brake pedal all way long, you will lose both decceleration power and turning radius when entering the corner. When you've mastered the no ABS braking in this game, ABS on 1 won't really help you to improve your best lap. It will just forgive more misjudgings and mistakes, so it is easier to be regular. And again, read back the first message : Palette, this year European GT Academy winner, explained the ABS on the Nissan race cars is a no brainer, you just slam the pedal and let it work basically. And I played with this guy, and we had a nice discussion with him which is on Youtube in which he explains that in detail, but it is in French.

If you look closely to my board, you'll see I ran some cars with both ABS on and off. For most of them, my best lap was achieved with ABS off. The last car I did that way (the 106 S16) has a 0,003s difference, and I actually enjoyed it more without ABS, because I could command the rear even better, especially on the right corner before the last downhill sector.

Now, if you fit race brakes on your car in GT6, running no ABS is much, much more difficult. But as I said, race cars today have incredible ABS systems. Older ones ? They may not have such incredible ABS systems, but they didn't had the huge brakes you see now. The last example I've seen is the NSX GT1 that took part in Le Mans : you find similar brakes on street cars nowadays.




Overall, don't worry about the accuracy of my testings, I have a lot of experience, and put a lot of thinking as well as analysis into that procedure. I guarantee you I haven't found any better way to do it for my purposes, and so far, the results showing up now are totally confirming what my friends and I always thought after several years of playing open lobbies with stock street cars on GT. I even ask a friend to guess the PP adjustment he thinks a car will have before giving him the file, and he's really close most of the time.

Plus, getting each car on the same tire compound reflects what's goind to happen in GT6 lobbies.

To be fair, I'm thinking about measuring the top speed on a 1500 / 2000m run or so to perfect that, but we now lack the useful tools that we had in previous episodes (400m, 1000m and top speed measurement modes). But I might try to do an Excel file with SuzukaStar's times and mines when I'll be finished to achieve the same kind of effect.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Yeah, the smell of oversteer and cooked tires is too strong to overcome, isn't it? I still think Peugeot makes great cars; I love the way the new 308 looks (and I can't wait for the future GTI and R versions), the 108 is nice-looking and the RCZ R is the stuff of dreams for me. But yeah, if you own a 106 S16\Rallye, don't you sell it unless you have to, they are great hot hatches to drive. 👍

My dream Peugeot will always be the 205 T16. For the story, I had the opportunity to have a run in one of those on a closed road. This one, exactly :

That's definitely not the fastest car I've been in, and it was by far not driven by the fastest driver I know, but that was a blast nonetheless, and I'm very happy to have experienced that.

Of all the Peugeots in GT6, the one I wish was Premium the most is the 106 Rallye. I love underpowered, tiny, lightweight cars.

I think most French people would kill to have the 205 GTI in game. The 309 GTI, or even the 205 rallye with it's carbureted 1.3 are very popular as well, and both did set the standards at their times. I have skilled friends who owned these, and they made them go fast. And if you give me one of those, I'll make it go fast as well. Nobody makes cars like that anymore !

 

[332i]

Wrong. It seems to be a bit of 3 ways to deal with that.

Most road cars tires are attributed automatically according to their stock PPs, with comfort mediums as the lower limit, and sports hard as the upper limit.
Tuned cars and rally cars seems to be mostly fitted with sport tires, and race cars, excepted a few, are on race hards.
Then, there are some cars which seems to have tires attributed manually (Nismo GT-R, Evo IX, some VGT cars...)

Your statement saying tires influence the PP on purchase can be easily debunked when comparing the Nismo GT-R with the other R35 GT-R's. The Nismo comes stock with sport softs, while all the others are fitted with sports hards. The difference between all of them with comfort softs is pretty much what you would expect from them, as well as their ranking. The Nismo is still faster than the others (though less enjoyable IMO) on the same compound.





I'm not slowing any car's performance down. I already explained why in the OP I run all cars on comfort tires, so you should read it back. Shortly put : sport hards definitely have too much grip to represent legal road tires. Even comforts softs seems a bit high sometimes to me, but still acceptable. Also, when it comes to things like the Elise 111R... seriously, than thing is 50 PP too low ! Even putting sports tires on "regular" 440 Pp cars may not be enough to get the same time as the 111R on comfort softs ! You can't tell me there's not a problem here.

About the PP system from the game : it is calculated primarily on the power, torque, weight, weight distribution, transmission (type, but also diff : you can see that when you look at all the different MX-5 / Miatas, but I'll have a full message when the time comes for me to test them because it is a huge mess)... there seems to be a bunch of little factors in there - I see people refering to grip multipliers here and there, but grip in general dosen't seems to be that much of an influence in PPs) - but some are definitely not taken in account. What I'm doing here is calculating PPs for STOCK cars. Throw in a gearbox, a clutch / flywheel and some race suspension : your PP won't rise, but the car will perform better. Though, the cheater cars manage somehow to stay ahead even when tuned, and cars that have terrible chassis and something like more than 50 PP less in my system will still be a crap pile when tuned. My system is not made for tuned cars or race cars, but I think taking in account de PP delta would still balance out some of the cars in tuning races.





I haven't tried that car ever yet on GT6, but what I can tell you is that if you compare it to a GT300 car, the PP are not far considering the weight and torque difference. Go apply some ballast and limit the weight on a GT300 car to achieve a similar power/weight ratio, and you wil see the PPs comes closer.
Also, look at the Impreza road versions and rally versions : PPs are not so far, considering the weight, torque, and aero differences.





As I already explained, ABS on 0 or 1 doesn't really make a difference on a lap time for me, at least when the cars are not fitted with racing brakes. And ABS on 1, though it is not the best represented thing in the game, really isn't as bad as people like to say when it comes to compare it to modern ABS systems. You still have to adjust the pressure during the decceleration phase in order to turn more as much as when you have no ABS, at 1, it really just prevents from locking in straight line, but if you keep 100% pressure on the brake pedal all way long, you will lose both decceleration power and turning radius when entering the corner. When you've mastered the no ABS braking in this game, ABS on 1 won't really help you to improve your best lap. It will just forgive more misjudgings and mistakes, so it is easier to be regular. And again, read back the first message : Palette, this year European GT Academy winner, explained the ABS on the Nissan race cars is a no brainer, you just slam the pedal and let it work basically. And I played with this guy, and we had a nice discussion with him which is on Youtube in which he explains that in detail, but it is in French.

If you look closely to my board, you'll see I ran some cars with both ABS on and off. For most of them, my best lap was achieved with ABS off. The last car I did that way (the 106 S16) has a 0,003s difference, and I actually enjoyed it more without ABS, because I could command the rear even better, especially on the right corner before the last downhill sector.

Now, if you fit race brakes on your car in GT6, running no ABS is much, much more difficult. But as I said, race cars today have incredible ABS systems. Older ones ? They may not have such incredible ABS systems, but they didn't had the huge brakes you see now. The last example I've seen is the NSX GT1 that took part in Le Mans : you find similar brakes on street cars nowadays.




Overall, don't worry about the accuracy of my testings, I have a lot of experience, and put a lot of thinking as well as analysis into that procedure. I guarantee you I haven't found any better way to do it for my purposes, and so far, the results showing up now are totally confirming what my friends and I always thought after several years of playing open lobbies with stock street cars on GT. I even ask a friend to guess the PP adjustment he thinks a car will have before giving him the file, and he's really close most of the time.

Plus, getting each car on the same tire compound reflects what's goind to happen in GT6 lobbies.

To be fair, I'm thinking about measuring the top speed on a 1500 / 2000m run or so to perfect that, but we now lack the useful tools that we had in previous episodes (400m, 1000m and top speed measurement modes). But I might try to do an Excel file with SuzukaStar's times and mines when I'll be finished to achieve the same kind of effect.

Yeah, dude. What ever you think.

 

[GT_Alex74]

There's no need to be rude, I'm not here to put you down, just explaining the reasons behind my choices, resulting from daily GT playing, personal real life as well as pro-drivers' feedback Some of your questionning is legitimate and I understand why you express some doubts about specific points, as I had to work out these things out

 

[Niku Driver HC]

My dream Peugeot will always be the 205 T16. For the story, I had the opportunity to have a run in one of those on a closed road. This one, exactly :

That's definitely not the fastest car I've been in, and it was by far not driven by the fastest driver I know, but that was a blast nonetheless, and I'm very happy to have experienced that.

Man, that is a great story! Good driver or not, that was a golden opportunity to have and experience, no wonder you love the car since you were able to see what it can do in person. It is also a pretty crazy car, that 205...

Before we go too off-topic, I might also add; since you want the 205 GTI in Gran Turismo, why not have the Citroen Visa GTI too? I like its quirkiness and since it shares the engine with the Peugeot, it is pretty quick too.

That and the fact it outran a fighter jet on top of an air carrier:



Sorry, I just find this ad hilarious...

 

[GT_Alex74]

Yeah, of course, the Visa Chrono as well... and there's so much more little French cars that would deserve a spot in GT !

 

[Niku Driver HC]

Yeah, of course, the Visa Chrono as well... and there's so much more little French cars that would deserve a spot in GT !

Yeah, there are a lot of overlooked hot hatches that deserve a spot in GT, aren't there?
Maybe you can drive one or two hatches in GT6 to pay hommage to that.

 

[wvmgmidget]

I'm doing something similar but I'm doing a comparison in more than one category (performance and the player factor using a points system) and RH tyres not comfort (how do you do it man). The first comparison I'll be doing is VGT cars. Look forward to the thread. I'll run a board as well.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Update, but before that, I forgot something from the previous session :

The most expensive crash ever.

Killcount = 3

Italian guy with blue shirt : "Mamma mia !"

Hello darling ? Yeah, I think we should not plan to have kids, I'm gonna have a debt on 16-generations soon.



Ok, now for the added cars :


Ferrari 512 BB
Ferrari 365 GTB4
Ferrari 288 GTO
Ferrari F40
MG F
MG TF160
Toyota WiLL VS
Toyota Corolla RunX Z Aerotourer
Subaru 360
Spoon Civic Type-R EK9
DMC DeLorean S2
Eagle Talon Esi

 

[MidFieldMaven]

It's always fun to see how the slowest cars compare with one another. As far as premium cars go, it's always the Fiat 500 '68 or VW Schwimmwagen/Kubelwagen depending on the course. If including standards, Subaru 360 and Citroen 2CV have a good shot at winning that award.

Speaking of the 2CV, I'd love to know how it stacks up against the Subaru. Try not to fall asleep behind the wheel of that powerhouse!

About the Schwimmwagen, I also noticed that coasting downhill and tapping the brake prevents topping out at the 52 mph and having to wait until it goes all the way back down to 45 mph. What a nuisance lol

 

[Niku Driver HC]

Update, but before that, I forgot something from the previous session :

The most expensive crash ever.

Killcount = 3

Italian guy with blue shirt : "Mamma mia !"

Hello darling ? Yeah, I think we should not plan to have kids, I'm gonna have a debt on 16-generations soon.

Well, it was fun watching this thread, but I guess it is over. Your debt is bigger than the Trump Tower, so there go the funds for test driving...

Haha, just kidding. I know these old Ferraris can be a pain to drive sometimes, they are gorgeous divas but they are also pretty demanding when shoved around...

 

[GT_Alex74]

Speaking of the 2CV, I'd love to know how it stacks up against the Subaru. Try not to fall asleep behind the wheel of that powerhouse!

I was already planning to go with the Citroens soon, you came at the right moment ! And speaking of the 2CV, this car has a special meaning for us French people. Citroen even stated that if you rolled a 2CV in a corner, they would give you a DS ! And I don't think they had to give any of those. (But someone found out in the 2000's that if you went in reverse as fast as it could and steered brutally it would instantly get on its side).



That's why I tuned it in GT6 just to manage to roll it Have a couple videos about that, kind on the crappy side as I recorded with my phone and put my fingers on the mic, but still fun anyways

About the Schwimmwagen, I also noticed that coasting downhill and tapping the brake prevents topping out at the 52 mph and having to wait until it goes all the way back down to 45 mph. What a nuisance lol

I actually found out if you let off the throttle at the right moment on a downhill, it will still gain more speed indefinitely (or at least, until the road gets flat again). Doesn't work on the 360, however.

Well, it was fun watching this thread, but I guess it is over. Your debt is bigger than the Trump Tower, so there go the funds for test driving...

Haha, just kidding. I know these old Ferraris can be a pain to drive sometimes, they are gorgeous divas but they are also pretty demanding when shoved around...

I like driving that car a lot, but it's definitely not the easiest to pull out full performance of it. Put a blank rounded number plate, go on Sierra and feel like you're running the Targa Florio or Mille Miglia !

 

[GT_Alex74]

Updated with :


Ferrari California
Ferrari F430
Ferrari F430 Scuderia
Ferrari SP1
Ferrari 458 Italia
Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano
Ferrari Enzo
Citroën 2CV Type A
Citroën C3 1.6
Citroën Xsara VTR


Next session should see the 200th car tested, so I'm going to throw in some stats : Top 10, Top 10 of "real" road cars (no concept, no unique car - thing that didn't made into production, no tuner...), Top 10 and Flop 10 of current cheat indicator. Just for fun, with a few observations, and I'll do that every 50 or 100 cars.

 

[Niku Driver HC]

Next session should see the 200th car tested, so I'm going to throw in some stats : Top 10, Top 10 of "real" road cars (no concept, no unique car - thing that didn't made into production, no tuner...), Top 10 and Flop 10 of current cheat indicator. Just for fun, with a few observations, and I'll do that every 50 or 100 cars.

Hey, 200 cars already? Congratulations on achieving that landmark! Wonder which lucky car shall become lucky number 200... And the top 10s should be interesting, guessing the picks is half the fun.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Update :


Citroën Xantia 3.0i V6 Exclusive
Citroën C5 V6 Exclusive
Citroën C4 Coupe 2.0 VTS
Citroën GT Road Car
Citroën GT Concept

And lucky number 200 is... the Tank Car ! Though there's a problem with the PP recalculation when I register it in the table : it is so slow that it gives instantly 100 PP more to the Spitfire So I put it outside the table in the Excel file for now, until I find a solution to exclude that from comparisons (and I'll probably do the same thing for a few other cars such as the Buick Special)

Daihatsu Storia / Sirion CX 2WD
Daihatsu Storia / Sirion CX 4WD
Daihatsu Storia / Sirion X4
Mazda RX-8
Mazda RX-8 Type-E
Mazda RX-8 Type-S
Mazda RX-8 Type-S


I made some experiences in open lobbies so far, and it seems my PP recalculation system works pretty well. I tried a few cars with positive cheat indicators at the PP my Excel gives them, and it was spot on.

There are a few flaws in it, though, but they are mainly isolated cases, or time ranges I don't have enough cars in at the moment to give accurate results. Also, a few cars having a huge difference of time compared to a regular car at the same PPs are weighting too much in the PP average, which unsettles the balance. For example, the Citroën GT Concept gives too much PPs to the VW VGT. Some cars, being basically the same and separated by not much more than 0.010s, have several PP difference.

But I'm well aware of those issues, and already have a few ideas to try out. Most of them will require to wait until the end of the testings. I could also find and experiment some functions to exclude a few entries from the macros, and adjust those manually. I think I'll begin to try different formulas when I'll have nothing else to do (that will happen pretty much soon) on different files and see how they behave.


That brings me to something else : don't expect much more updates until the end of the month : we received the keys of our brand new flat and began to do the stuff we wanted to make ourselves, then we'll have to move out the furnitures and stuff, and then a few days at the hotel because the electricity is not activated yet... at least, it's the builders company that pays the bill

In short, I may have a run tomorrow, but after that, it's 2 weeks off for me


Now, for the 200 cars intermediate sum up (excluding the Tank Car for the reason mentionned above) :



Top 10 "real street cars" :


McLaren MP4-12C

McLaren F1

Ferrari Enzo

Ferrari 458 Italia

Nissan GT-R Nismo

Light Car Company Rocket

Alfa Romeo TZ3 Stradale

Nissan GT-R Black Edition

Ferrari F430 Scuderia

Nissan GT-R Spec V

McLaren is a good way ahead, and I begin to doubt they will be ever beaten by production cars on that combo. There's still a lot of supercars to try out, but I don't see which one could get in front of them. The Lambos seems to be too lively, and the American beasts will probably lack a bit of chassis to fill the 1.6 second gap between the Enzo and the F1. I expect more concepts and VGT cars in the global top 10 in the future.

The GT-Rs are invading the top spots, unsurprinsingly, but they're not as unbeatable as the legends would make you think. People usually don't keep in mind that not every car manufacturer gets serious on the Nurburgring battle.
McLaren runs on the Nordschleife, but they never reveal official lap times because they think the Nurburgring laptime war is meaningless and too dangerous, as there's no regulations around that, the conditions are changing each time, and can even be subject to variations on a single lap, and the drivers has to push too far. From unofficial sources that had access to the track or video, the F1 is said to have clocked it in 7'11 with Mika Hakkinen at the wheel, and the P1 is said to have made it in 6'47, for example. So I'm not surprised that the GT-R's get beaten.



Top 10 "cheated cars" :

Lotus Elise 111 R (S2) > +55

Lotus Elise Type 72 (S2) > +39

Ferrari Dino 246 GT > +36

Tommykaira ZZ-II > +35

Lotus Elise (S1) > +34

Amuse S2000 R1 > +34

Lotus Elise 111 S (S2) > +33

Volkswagen GTI Roadster VGT > +33

ASL Garaiya > +33

MG F > +30

The Lotus Elise is definitely a car that will secure you some easy wins in PP racing lobbies in most of its variations. They still have great acceleration for their PPs, unlike most light cars in the game which are usually very underpowered for the PP attributed by the game, and their cornering speeds are way ahead pretty much anything else. If some of them are a bit lively and requires you to be either wise or completely burned out and skilled, the 111R is just disgustingly easy to handle and even faster in corners than the others.

Though, the Garaiya beats it when it comes to ease : that thing is a blast to drive and will give you some confidence in it like no other car can do. No matter what you do with it, it seems like it will go off without any hint of troubles. It's a bit higher in PP in the game, though, and I think the 111R performs better in straight lines (I'll have to check this out), so that explains it's not as cheated.

The Dino is also definitely noticed for its superior handling in open lobbies, and its position here is not a surprise for me. It's definitely fun to drive, I personally appreciate it a lot, but it deserves to be run against 450 PP cars to be fair.

The ZZ-II, being a car built to need only some slick tires fitted to be homologated under FIA regulations, was also expected to be here. I don't really understand why the game doesn't allocates it more PPs.

The S2000 R1, being a tuner car based on something that will probably fit in that top in future updates, has definitely some arguments to be here, but it's not very easy, especially on bumpy tracks like Trial Mountain.

The MG F is the surprise from this top at the moment. It is definitely a great handling car, but I didn't suspected it would be faster than the TF160 at first ! It will go off the cheated top 10 as soon as I'll get my hands on the S2000 or NSX-R, but I'm still impressed.

About the VW VGT, this one may not be much representative : the only car being in +/- 1 second from it is the Citroën GT Concept, and that one has really huge PP figures because of the enormous torque it features (and also, it is so fast that it required nearly the whole session just to figure out decent braking points).


Flop 10 :


Buick Special "Bu'Wicked" > -94

Cizeta V16T > -67

Caterham Seven Fireblade > -59

Art Morrison Corvette > -55

Citroën GT Concept > -54

Lotus Carlton > -50

Tesla Model S Signature Performance > -46

AC Cobra 427 S/C > -42

Mini Marcos GT > -39

Lotus Elan S1 > -29

This one showcases most of GT6's PP system flaws : we have heavy cars with bad chassis, very light cars that are underpowered for their PPs and electric cars, with a torque-peak at their lower RPMs. And that's a pity, because the cars form the last two categories are actually very pleasant cars, with nice handling and great cornering speeds. I made several one-make races with the Cat' and the Marcos and both belong to the funniest cars in the whole game, and the Tesla is really surprinsingly good in corners.

On the other hand, we have cars with insane power, but they can't corner as fast as a Beetle. I actually like the Cobra, because I find it to remain quite fun, even though it is hugely challenging, but the Buick is just like having the Everest penetrating your ass. It understeers nearly as much as the Tank Car, but you don't have the fun side of it.

The Cizeta is just like a crappy Chinese-made Diablo fake. It doesn't look as good, and it handles like a soap on an ice rink.


Top 10 of my personal favorites so far :

Alpine A110 1600 S : my ultimate dream car. It is incredibly pleasing to drive. My father actually owned one in the 70's, before I was born. It is by far the car he regrets the most, and nearly half of his car stories he told me involves this car. Some famous French pro-drivers have a similar speech when it comes to the Alpine "Berlinette". If it handles in real life like it handles in the game, I understand why.

ASL Garaiya : I love the style, I love the handling, I love the fact it has just the power you'd need for my local roads, and I love the fact that it's an original alternative to the Elise, with a rare and underestimated engine (SR20VE). This car has actually a strange story in real life : you would order it with tailor-made supension configuration for your needs, and a bunch of people had already signed for it and were ready to go do some tests (or they already has sent their specifications, I can't remember well right now), when it was dismissed. They even already built some chassis, and to this date, I have yet to find proofs showing if some cars has actually been completed and sold or not, aside from the prototype car. I would kill to be able to buy one !

Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 : there's several personal stories behind this one, one of them being related in one of my previous messages in this topic. Also, the way it drives is something I'm really fond of... and who doesn't like homologated group B rally cars ?

Ferrari 288 GTO : who doesn't like homologated group B rally cars bis. The look, the power, the rawness... it is a bit challenging, and I like that, but it's also really rewarding.

Oullim Spirra Prototype : it's challenging, but can be really fast i the good hands. In fact, in my GT5 beginnings, none of my friends could handle it. Even my close real life friend I play with nearly every day, which has a very close pace to mine, crashed all the time wth that when he originally tried it. I made fun of him, of course, and he told me it was just impossible to drive. That instantly turned a switch in my brain . I HAD to try it, master it, and win a race with it in front of him. I did, on my first attempt, with a lot of sideways action and suicide brakings. Everyone calls me crazy since then.

AC Cobra 427 S/C : that car is way too powerfull for its chassis. But it's an old English roadster, fitted with a brutal American classic big block, and it is Carroll Shelby's greatest piece of art. I love to give all of myself driving this kind of cars. I usually don't care about what happens around me, the challenge is between the car and me, and that brought me some of my best moments on GT. So dangerous that it's always a thrill to survive it.

Ferrari 250 GT Berlinetta passo corto : a magnificent oldtimer with an outstanding beauty. The suspension is way too soft, and the differential is weird, but I really like driving it, it feels like an old car and it has this Targo Florio / Mille Miglia feeling in my mind when I use it... It's difficult to say why I appreciate so much driving it, but the fact is I often can't resist to have a blast with it when I come across it in the list.

Renault Clio 3 RS2 : front wheel drive is not my favorite layout usually, but the Clio RS has all the qualities you would look for on one of those to blast through mountain passes. It is nimble, precise, and the lift-off oversteer makes my shift knob hard. I even tried to replicate as close as possible the real life Clio Cup settings (I found all the data) for a championship, and it works really nicely, the car handles like a Clio Cup should.

Renault R5 Turbo : another famous Jean Ragnotti car. Another car which likes to slide, and can be really fast doing it. Also, it looks like the 205 T16's nemesis (though they didn't raced on the same years). If you already tried the previous cars I mentionned in my personal top 10, you'll understand why I love this one.

Mini Marcos GT : I think this car has been the subject of the most epic evenings I had on Gran Turismo. I'm cheating a little bit on this one because it is much more fun when tuned. When it is, this car becomes mentally challenged. Or maybe it is me, and the fools who dares to take part to events where half the points are allowed on the most epic trick of the race. You can throw it randomly into corners, taking huge drifting angles, weld the throttle to the floor, and it will get out of corners like a flower. A metal, spiked, cannibal and screaming one. Driving this car suddenly makes me want to fit 2 grades-lower tires on the rear and try to overtake my team mate by jumping over him while doing a 360 (I seriously tried that on a race).

 

[GT_Alex74]

Quick post to say I'm going to get back on it soon (few problems with the appartment, we begin to sleep there tomorrow only). Though, I'm going to need a playseat as I can't screw my screen on the wall like I did until now, and I'll be going the DIY way. Don't worry, I have a temporary (but ugly) solution to put my screen on

 

[GT_Alex74]

Update !

Cars added :


Subaru BRZ S
Scion FR-S
Toyota 86 Racing
Toyota FT-86 II Concept
Toyota 86 GT
Toyota Celica 1600 GT (TA22)
Toyota Celica XX 2800 GT
Toyota Celica 2000 GT-R (ST162)
Toyota Celica 2000 GT-FOUR (ST165)
Toyota Celica SS-II (ZZT231)
Toyota Celica SS-II (ST202)
Toyota Celica GT-FOUR RC (ST185)
Toyota Celica GT-Four (ST205)
Subaru VIZIV GT Vision Gran Turismo
Chevrolet Corvette Convertible (C1)
Toyota Celica TRD Sports M (ZZT231)





About the GT86 / FR-S / BRZ :

The FT-86 II Concept and the GT86 seems identical, with the same understeer feeling on exits. The FR-S and the BRZ are free from this sensation, and can clearly handle a bit more load on their front wheels : just enough not to go too large, which can sometimes make a crucial difference.

What's strange about that is that in game, they all have the exact same suspension and differential settings. I can't figure out what parameter(s) could explain this difference. Maybe I missed something, or it is very deeply hidden.

I spent 2 hours switching from one car to another, then another one, etc. And I always felt the same differences in feeling and lap times. no matter what I'd do. I even asked some friends to try it out before posting my results, to see if they had similar observations to make, and they clearly noticed a difference between the BRZ and the 86 (on comfort mediums, since we're having a club event running with those cars on CM). So, if you're skeptical, please try it for yourself

 

[MidFieldMaven]

Interesting that the Celica ST165 is only a tenth quicker than the ST162. One has 4WD and a turbo, the other is FF and naturally aspirated. I think I'd rather have the ST162. Lighter and more responsive.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Only the ST205 shows real benefits from the 4wd, otherwise the 2wd Celicas are nicer to drive (and I'm not a FF fan originally )

 

[GT_Alex74]

Update : finished the Vettes, and done all the SUVs (still have the pickup trucks to do though)

Cars added :


Chevrolet Corvette Coupe (C2)
Chevrolet Corvette Stingray Convertible (C3)
Chevrolet Corvette Stingray L46 350 (C3)
Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport (C4)
Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 (C4)
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C5) '00
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C5) '04
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C6)
Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 (C6)
Chevrolet Corvette Stingray (C7) / Gran Turismo Concept
Chevrolet Corvette C7 Test Prototype
Honda Element
Audi Pikes Peak Quattro
Infinity FX45 Concept
Range Rover Evoque Coupe Dynamic
Range Stormer
Mazda MX-Crossport
Toyota RSC

And, by the way, Killcount = 4, but I didn't had time to take a photo yet. And it is a red car again... My real-life car is red... I'm screwed !

I hate red cars. Period.​

 

[MidFieldMaven]

Love that the '96 Corvette is 1.3 seconds quicker than the C4 ZR-1. It would've been better if PD included the 93-95 ZR-1 with +30 hp and +15 ft-lbs over the 1990's 375 hp and 370 ft-lbs.

In real life, the 1996 LT4 Corvette with 330 hp is the C4 to get. My father had a 1995 LT1 with 300 hp. It was a really sweet car, I miss it.

Here's a beautiful Grand Sport for sale http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-C...b091f5af7&item=390995073783&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

 

[GT_Alex74]

A friend owns a convertible C4though I don't know the exact year it is. I quite like it, though I'd love to see a Grand Sport C4 !

 

[GT_Alex74]

Update :


Toyota Tacoma X-Runner
Dodge Ram Laramie Hemi Quad Cab
Ford SVT F-150 Lightning
Chevrolet Silverado SST
Chevrolet SSR
Chevrolet El Camino SS 396

 

[GT_Alex74]

Update :


Mercedes A 160 Avantgarde
Mercedes SLK 230 Kompressor
Mercedes 300 SL Coupé
Mercedes 300 SL Coupé Chrome Line
Mercedes 190 E 2.5 - 16 Evolution II
Jaguar XJ220
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R32) '89
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R32) '91
Nissan Skyline GT-R V-spec (R32)
Nissan Skyline GT-R V-spec II (R32)
Nissan Skyline GT-R N1 (R32)
Nissan Skyline GT-R V-spec N1
Nismo Skyline GT-R S-tune (R32)




Something strange about the Nismo R32 : the in-game description states it is fitted with a 6-speed R34 gearbox, and tuned to be more agile than the regular version, while not touching the factory suspension.

The one I drove in GT6 today has a stock R32 5-speed gearbox, and feels less agile than the factory counterparts

 

[Niku Driver HC]

Update :


Mercedes A 160 Avantgarde
Mercedes SLK 230 Kompressor
Mercedes 300 SL Coupé
Mercedes 300 SL Coupé Chrome Line
Mercedes 190 E 2.5 - 16 Evolution II
Jaguar XJ220
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R32) '89
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R32) '91
Nissan Skyline GT-R V-spec (R32)
Nissan Skyline GT-R V-spec II (R32)
Nissan Skyline GT-R N1 (R32)
Nissan Skyline GT-R V-spec N1
Nismo Skyline GT-R S-tune (R32)




Something strange about the Nismo R32 : the in-game description states it is fitted with a 6-speed R34 gearbox, and tuned to be more agile than the regular version, while not touching the factory suspension.

The one I drove in GT6 today has a stock R32 5-speed gearbox, and feels less agile than the factory counterparts

Kaz likes that part where you used the word "Skyline". Joke aside, that Nismo thing is pretty silly, especially when you consider that it is a Skyline (which is kinda PD's especiallity, no?). Chalk another mistake for the "Gran Turismo Inaccuracies" pile...

 

[GT_Alex74]

I think the whole game is basically flawed when it comes to tuned cars. I tried to replicate Clio Cup settings on the Clio 3 RS, but the game spring's max values are inferior to what is used in real life.