Tip to Correct Understeer - Toe and Racing Suspension

[junpeix555]

Hey everyone, someone might have posted this already, but I just noticed today that in the toe setting in GT5, a + means toe in and - is toe out. I guess with my habits from GT4, I just assumed that + was toe out and the fact that the racing suspension automatically puts a +.2 toe in GT5.

There were some cars I had (C63, Gallardo, 300zx) that understeered like crazy....even using all the extreme suspension setting to counter understeer. That's when I took the time to actually look at the diagram and noticed - number is toe out in GT5. So what I thought was toe out this whole time was actually toe in, which would explain the horrid understeer I was getting

I feel dumb but that might help some of you experiencing understeer.

So when you get racing suspension, always set to toe to 0 first and take it for a test.

From what I notice in GT5, toe makes a huge difference. I went from +.20 to -.17 on my Gallardo and it made the car handle like a MR should. EDIT: I went back and used a neutral toe (0) for this car which works best.

 

[Hermanvongerman]

"From what I notice in GT5, toe makes a huge difference. I went from +.20 to -.17 on my Gallardo and it made the car handle like a MR should."

is that on the rear? front?

can you post up your tune so we can give it a go?

thanks man

 

[junpeix555]

Rear toe. Imo, rear toe seems to effect exit where as front toe effect turn in response.

I'm in the middle of a endurance race so I can't look up the exact tune for the Gallardo, but from the top of my head:

Ride Height -10 front -7 rear
Springs - 7 something in front and 9 in rear
Shocks Extension - 6 front and rear
Shock Compression - 3-4 front 5 rear
Sways - 3 Front and Rear

Camber - 3.7 front 2.2 rear
Toe - Front -.05 Rear -.17

Brake - 6 Front 4 Rear (I think this is what I was running)

Tranny - whatever you need

AWD - 22 Front 78 Rear (I think)

Aero -I think it was something like 16

Another thing is that may Lambo has about 600hp, no NA tune or Turbo and on racing tires medium.

Also, I left the LSD standard as I feel like customs LSD makes under worse in this car. No aids except ABS at 1.

Again, this tune is just my driving style. I rather have the car a little loose and neutral oppose to stiff and heavy under on exit. If you are not careful, you will spin the car on exit if you are heavy footed.

EDIT: Here is the exact setting I'm running FYI - I only tested this for 2 laps and I'm not a tuner, posted per request. However I did notice this eliminates under and gives a more neutral setting.

Ride F -12 R -9
Spring Rate F 11.5 R 14.9
Ext F 6 R 8
Com F 4 R 5
Sways F 3 R 3
Camber F3.4 R 2.1
Toe F -.08 R -.19

Brake F 4 R 2
AWD F20 R 80

 

[BlueShift]

You have other solution to eliminate oversteer without using toe.

Ride Height -10 front -7 rear
Brake - 6 Front 4 Rear

<-- invert that (becomes -7/-10 and 4/6)

Sways - 3 Front and Rear

4 or 5 in front.

 

[junpeix555]

You have other solution to eliminate oversteer without using toe.


<-- invert that (becomes -7/-10 and 4/6)


4 or 5 in front.

This tune is to eliminate under, not over. I never had a problem with over on this car.

 

[BlueShift]

oops

 

[oppositelock]

Anytime I've tried toe-out on the rear of a car it turns into a nervous, darty mess. Maybe this is because I use a controller and prefer more stability. I think there's a pretty good reason it's almost never used in real life. To me it seems like a duct tape solution for a bad tune. For example, if your Gallardo is understeering why are your swaybars 3 and 3? That would be the first thing I'd change.

 

[niigma]

Anytime I've tried toe-out on the rear of a car it turns into a nervous, darty mess. Maybe this is because I use a controller and prefer more stability. I think there's a pretty good reason it's almost never used in real life. To me it seems like a duct tape solution for a bad tune. For example, if your Gallardo is understeering why are your swaybars 3 and 3? That would be the first thing I'd change.

I agree completely. Toe should be the last thing touched, and only if it's absolutely necessary. Properly setup suspension,dampers and roll bars to me is always better than when its not setup correctly and someone uses toe as a quick fix.

There are exceptions however, we dont have to get into that though.

 

[Mr. CoolFiat]

Hey junpeix555: have you bought the CE GT5? If so, then read the APEX book... it will help you!

 

[junpeix555]

Anytime I'vei tried toe-out on the rear of a car it turns into a nervous, darty mess. Maybe this is because I use a controller and prefer more stability. I think there's a pretty good reason it's almost never used in real life. To me it seems like a duct tape solution for a bad tune. For example, if your Gallardo is understeering why are your swaybars 3 and 3? That would be the first thing I'd change.

I use the wheel so that could explain some things.

As for the toe out on rear, honestly I didn't even try a neutral 0 setting on this car. I was running a + toe that the racing suspension defaults on. So when I realized that was toe in, I just did the exact opposite since I was trying to get rid of under.

You probably right that sway could eliminate under with a 0 toe setting in the rear. I just haven't just tried to fine tune the car to that point yet.

 

[junpeix555]

Hey junpeix555: have you bought the CE GT5? If so, then read the APEX book... it will help you!

No, I do not have the CE. Looks like a book that about tuning and driving? I'm sure it would be a good read but and every little bit helps, but I do have some knowledge to tuning in real life and GT.

 

[RSection8]

I agree completely. Toe should be the last thing touched, and only if it's absolutely necessary. Properly setup suspension,dampers and roll bars to me is always better than when its not setup correctly and someone uses toe as a quick fix.

There are exceptions however, we dont have to get into that though.

So where do most tuners start from? I was reading the tuning guide and it also said roll bars and toe are fine tuning adjustments and shouldn't be messed with till the end.

 

[niigma]

So where do most tuners start from? I was reading the tuning guide and it also said roll bars and toe are fine tuning adjustments and shouldn't be messed with till the end.

Where tuners start from and how they tune will always vary. For me personally I start with the ride height and spring rates, followed by the dampers. Depending on how stiff or soft I set the suspension as a whole I adjust my roll bars accordingly. From there I adjust my camber, and make changes to the suspension as needed.

Following this I will adjust the LSD, and brakes. Then once again go back and re-tune if needed.

Also just to put it out there I tune all my cars on either sport hard, or racing hard depending on what it is.