Wallbanger's Cafe & Outlaw Motorsports Garage (New Tunes 6/15/12)

Trainman
Quick question, is the Pocket Monster (I was thinking I might call mine the Pocket Rocket, after Henri Richard) available from the dealership or do I need to find it in the used car lot? I am not on the PS3 right now, but this sounds like a fun car!
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Afraid you'll have to catch the Cuore/Mira in the UCD.::grumpy:
By the way the Mira TR-XX Avanzato '97 is the same car, Daihatsu just used the Mira name for Japanese Domestic sales.:sly:
 
Trainman
Thanks! I will keep an eye out for each/either.
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Hey Trainman post a couple of those tunes we talked about before here and I'll send you one!(bribe, bribe:lol:)

Of course I'm booked till Monday on my sends so you might get one before I could get it to you anyways.
 
XDesperado67
Hey Trainman post a couple of those tunes we talked about before here and I'll send you one!(bribe, bribe:lol:)

Of course I'm booked till Monday on my sends so you might get one before I could get it to you anyways.
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I will post as many as I can, but it may not be until Sunday anyway. It will be fun sharing them, and getting feedback on how to make them better!
 
I'll take part in the testing, but you'll need to wait for two weeks before I make my first contribution.
 
Yes yes yes!!! It begins. I think first up should be Track suggestions and a voted on or agreed upon Track. I think we got 500PP and FF covered. Ohh, I don't like the use of the Power Limiter. This is to tune to 500PP no dialing down from higher HP to keep a flat power curve. I also would like an Entry deadline.
 
Onboy123
I'll take part in the testing, but you'll need to wait for two weeks before I make my first contribution.
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Works for me and figured you would be in it.

I'm going to suggest that all entries be posted/made available to the competition and drivers by 9 July. And that drivers have all results posted by 16 July.

Would that work for your schedule?
 
AssassinTuner
Yes yes yes!!! It begins. I think first up should be Track suggestions and a voted on or agreed upon Track. I think we got 500PP and FF covered. Ohh, I don't like the use of the Power Limiter. This is to tune to 500PP no dialing down from higher HP to keep a flat power curve. I also would like an Entry deadline.
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Two thoughts on the 500PP limit. Personally I think it either needs to be a hard cap meaning no power limiter or ballast allowed or else it should be up to the tuner. Personally I feel ballast is at least as disruptive as the power limiter. Being able to basically redistribute weight for free is a major enhancement to handling. Add in that you almost always get a better power to weight ratio through the use of ballast over the use of the power limiter, and that possibly flattened torque curve isn't such a big deal.
 
AssassinTuner
Yes yes yes!!! It begins. I think first up should be Track suggestions and a voted on or agreed upon Track. I think we got 500PP and FF covered. Ohh, I don't like the use of the Power Limiter. This is to tune to 500PP no dialing down from higher HP to keep a flat power curve. I also would like an Entry deadline.
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Just a thought, but what if a 0-mile car has 500PP, but when broken it in, it ends up with 501PP?
 
VTiRoj
Just a thought, but what if a 0-mile car has 500PP, but when broken it in, it ends up with 501PP?
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Hmmm not sure I've seen stock FF car that was 500 PP...:lol:

Again my suggestion would be if we set a hard cap meaning no ballast or power limiter allowed then any car a test driver has go over the PP limit is disqualified.

Otherwise then additional adjustments could be made.

Would also highly recommend that all cars be thoroughly broken in if new before testing and if used that an engine overhaul be performed prior to testing.
 
XDesperado67
Two thoughts on the 500PP limit. Personally I think it either needs to be a hard cap meaning no power limiter or ballast allowed or else it should be up to the tuner. Personally I feel ballast is at least as disruptive as the power limiter. Being able to basically redistribute weight for free is a major enhancement to handling. Add in that you almost always get a better power to weight ratio through the use of ballast over the use of the power limiter, and that possibly flattened torque curve isn't such a big deal.
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I would respectfully disagree. If anybody uses ballast that adds mass to the car. While it can be done to get better weight distribution adding it always brings down your PP. You then need to compensate with Power, but the extra mass is still being lugged around. This I think embodies a Shootout. The Power Limiter is much different (IMO) you need to increase the PP well above the allowed limit and dial down with the power limiter. This gives an un-recognized advantage in the rest of the Power band, while adding ballast gives a very recognized increased mass (disadvantage) when compared to using the Power Limiter. I would suspect everybody to be forced to use a little ballast to make a clean 500PP unless they get the perfect part list to hit 500PP, or are comfortable with their Tune a PP or 2 shy of 500PP.

I'm very open to hear people's opinions on the matter.

VTiRoj
Just a thought, but what if a 0-mile car has 500PP, but when broken it in, it ends up with 501PP?
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That's where you need to break in the car before getting your 500PP, or decide if you want to add mass to bring it down. All cars for testing should be fully broken in and have gone through a rebuild otherwise HP/PP keeps growing until the "broken in" point.

Back in a bit, out for some Cosmo's Breakfast. (local old school grease pit breakfast joint) back when my Belly's full.
 
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Actually if we make it a hard cap you might get a better assortment of cars as then people are looking to build to as close to that 500 PP limit as possible and thus might consider cars that say max out at 486 or 497 PP. Otherwise they are looking to build only cars that can get over that 500 PP limit and then restrict down to it.
 
XDesperado67
Hmmm not sure I've seen stock FF car that was 500 PP...:lol:
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I don't mean stock, I mean after tuning. :P
AssassinTuner
That's where you need to break in the car before getting your 500PP. All cars for testing should be fully broken in and have gone through a rebuild otherwise HP/PP keeps growing until the "broken in" point.
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That's settled then. :)👍
 
I think it will add diversity and show more character from the Tuners. Some will get to the PP limit increasing power, others will get there reducing and moving weight. Then there will be some who do a little of both :D

Unlike ballast, The power limiter has no drawbacks. It only increases power and the car needs to be tuned well above the PP limit to be reduced down. Ballast reduces PP the more you use & the extra mass increases braking distances, slows acceleration for all the good it does in the corners. It improves balance yes, but at the cost of PP directly. The Power Limiter adds power the PP level doesn't recognize ;) , that's why I disagree with it's use. If it were to limit power on an even scale across the entire rpm range & reflect any advantage in power curve in PP I'd have no gripe with it's use. Maybe next patch.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm open to discussion and would like to hear people's opinions on the matter. We must understand we may not agree but we can always vote past these differences when setting up the event.
 
AssassinTuner
I think it will add diversity and show more character from the Tuners. Some will get to the PP limit increasing power, others will get there reducing and moving weight. Then there will be some who do a little of both :D

Unlike ballast, The power limiter has no drawbacks. It only increases power and the car needs to be tuned well above the PP limit to be reduced down. Ballast reduces PP the more you use & the extra mass increases braking distances, slows acceleration for all the good it does in the corners. It improves balance yes, but at the cost of PP directly. The Power Limiter adds power the PP level doesn't recognize ;) , that's why I disagree with it's use. If it were to limit power on an even scale across the entire rpm range & reflect any advantage in power curve in PP I'd have no gripe with it's use. Maybe next patch.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm open to discussion and would like to hear people's opinions on the matter. We must understand we may not agree but we can always vote past these differences when setting up the event.
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Did you see the second half of my point about ballast? You actually get a better power to weight ratio with ballast used to reach a given PP than with the power limiter used to reach that same limit.

Personally I can work with anything and if you want to let me play with ballast I'm cool with it.:D

Oh and Onboy123 I just sent the "Pocket Monster" over.
Take good care of him and feed him the occasional tuner car!:lol:
 
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XDesperado67
Did you see the second half of my point about ballast? You actually get a better power to weight ratio with ballast used to reach a given PP than with the power limiter used to reach that same limit.

Personally I can work with anything and if you want to let me play with ballast I'm cool with it.:D

Oh and Onboy123 I just sent the "Pocket Monster" over.
Take good care of him and feed him the occasional tuner car!:lol:
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Absolutely, I commented on it. You do get better weight distribution, but it is still with added mass that reduced the PP. That mass while improves cornering balance (if set right) still slows down your acceleration and increases braking distances. The mass even if placed right hurts performance directly in some areas while it improves performance in others. Tuners are supposed to find the balance through tuning if they go that rout. It's not something anybody would be forced to use.

I'd really like to hear what others think on the subject.
 
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My new Original Gangstaz Golf would be perfect for this...in terms of PP. :lol: If I was actually driving it though that would be an automatic loss for me. :lol:

Might just slightly modify up my C4 WRC Homologation/Jasonnater. :D

Or my Focus ST-RS, come to think of it. :D
 
C-ZETA
My new Original Gangstaz Golf would be perfect for this...in terms of PP. :lol: If I was actually driving it though that would be an automatic loss for me. :lol:
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That's why we use independent test drivers.

They'll take the cars on an as yet to be determined course and log the times.

Best composite average time wins.

Anyways as you can see we're still hashing out the rules so any input you might have is welcome.
 
C-ZETA
But even if they drove it it wouldn't win. It's not designed for serious driving at all.
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HeHe I'm sure you can find something in the garage during the next 3 weeks or so!:D
 
Anybody else want to share their opinions on Track Selection & the discussed regulations? We need as much input from others as possible so we can insure all people getting involved feel the competition is fair.
 
Drewsifer3x
Hmm. I got a pug coupe sitting in the garage just begging me to tune it!
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Hey Drew just picked up another Isuzu Piazza. I know it doesn't qualify for the FF shootout but I have a few ideas to get it handling better. You interested?
 
AssassinTuner
Anybody else want to share their opinions on Track Selection & the discussed regulations? We need as much input from others as possible so we can insure all people getting involved feel the competition is fair.
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I think each tuner should be allowed to use the ballast/limiter if they choose to. Let each tuner decide if it is the right thing to do for the tracks we will be using. After all part of being a tuner is picking the right parts to go along with your settings.
I suggest trying to keep the rules as simple and straight forward as possible.
 
XDesperado67
Works for me and figured you would be in it.

I'm going to suggest that all entries be posted/made available to the competition and drivers by 9 July. And that drivers have all results posted by 16 July.

Would that work for your schedule?
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Sorry for the lat reply, was sleeping :)
And yea, since I'm back at the start of summer (1st of July), it'll leave me with a few days to collect the cars and a week to test them.
 
Onboy123
Sorry for the lat reply, was sleeping :)
And yea, since I'm back at the start of summer (1st of July), it'll leave me with a few days to collect the cars and a week to test them.
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HeHe you weren't the only one sleeping!
Was working on that price of scrap metal and plastic otherwise refured to as a CT390R in the pits at the Supercar Eifel when I passed out. Guess my body is trying to say it needs more than 3 hours sleep a day to function!:crazy:

Anyways glad to hear you'll be in as a driver for this shootout. Any suggestions for a track?
 
zero_speed
I think each tuner should be allowed to use the ballast/limiter if they choose to. Let each tuner decide if it is the right thing to do for the tracks we will be using. After all part of being a tuner is picking the right parts to go along with your settings.
I suggest trying to keep the rules as simple and straight forward as possible.
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If that's how the people want it then let it be so. I'm open to PP & Ballast, let the Tuners use whatever they can to hit 500PP.
 

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