◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Currently Recruiting for GT7 - JOIN TODAY!!Open 

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1,694
Canada
ontario
USERID_77a23
We are having the same problem in D7. It is really hard to find the room sometimes (its the system) We had so much trouble we all backed out and had the host start a public room to finish the last race. We were all able to find the room and get started in less than 5 minutes.

@JLBowler You asked for evidence this is ours.
After being disco I too have seen it where I can no longer see the room. What I do is is enter into one of the other online features(recently gtacademy) like the seasonals. I make sure that to go all the way to the track menu to make sure I've entered the online server. I back out and then go back to the lobby menu. Every time the room shows up. To do this takes no more than 90sec. I think of it like when they tell you to reset a modem some say to leave it off for fifteen sec. To make sure it's clear. Maybe when being disco and entering back immediately there hasnt been enough time to clear the errors. Don't know if any of this makes sense or helps...
 
1,435
Canada
Mission, British Columbia
BC_BOYZZ
Congrats to all of you that made it to Nationals! It's pretty hard to get a competitive time when you have 10% less turning radius than those that use a wheel... Oh well, I'm not old enough to make it anyways. (Even though some 16 y/o got to drive an LMP2 at LeMans this year!)
 
2,782
United States
Washington
GrimGrnninGhost
Hello fellow SNAILS

Wanted to let you all know that I have started up a new series for Wed Nights starting this week if anyone is interested called, you guessed it Wednesday Night “Race Car” Series. (how original, right?)

Series will feature stock purpose built race cars competing in 4 week seasons followed by an "All Star" race. Each night will feature two 40 min races (plus single qualifying session). We are kicking off the season next Wed if anyone is interested and will host an open lobby tonight in 30 mins for a shakedown run if anyone is interested.

Here is the link to the topic - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/%E2%97%86-s-n-a-i-l-wednesday-night-%E2%80%9Crace-car%E2%80%9D-series-season-starts-6-18.311225/

If you have any questions, please let me know and hope to see you there.

Thanks!
 

JLBowler

Premium
7,409
United States
California
JLBowler
Do you have a source for that? Looking for some background before I dig deeper. The friends only problems I've seen are certainly anecdotal, but if there is solid documentation already done on the network topology then I'm not going to spend more time on it and I'll drop my aversion to friends only rooms. If not, I'll work to corroborate the anecdotal experience of many of us with hard evidence.

Even still, I maintain that it should be host and division members discretion - we're adults here and since there are other drawbacks of friends only lobbies (friend list maintenance, inability for host to rejoin, difficulty in finding the rooms at times) - the mandate doesn't appreciably benefit the whole league.

My source is straight out of the GT6 manual. It details the differences between fixed host and non-fixed host and specifically states that the friends only room setting only restricts who can join.

We understand that but again the problem that is steadily arising with the friends only rooms is that when a player does have connection issues it truely puts a damper on the whole night trying to get people to find the room again. These are facts that most have had. And we all know at any moment PD servers will go wonky and kick everyone off and it is a pain when a room is reopened it takes forever to find again, this is why some of us resort to going back to public lobbies when things like this happens. Its all about trying to get all the races done in a timely manner.........

There are known workarounds for finding the room when it doesn't show up on the friends only search list. It doesn't take much time at all and they are listed in the host/driver policy post.

If PD's servers truly go wonky, it's not going to matter what kind of room you are in as they all use the same servers.
We are having the same problem in D7. It is really hard to find the room sometimes (its the system) We had so much trouble we all backed out and had the host start a public room to finish the last race. We were all able to find the room and get started in less than 5 minutes.

@JLBowler You asked for evidence this is ours.

That's not solid evidence. That's a description of one event that could have been caused by any number of things. How many times did every driver try and reset the listing of rooms? How much time was left between the creation of the room and drivers trying to enter it? Did every driver try searching by track? Was the room even set to the correct track? Would the same result have been reached by creating another friends only room instead of an open lobby?
 
357
United States
Delaware
fizzer82
My source is straight out of the GT6 manual. It details the differences between fixed host and non-fixed host and specifically states that the friends only room setting only restricts who can join.

I read that too, and clearly there is a large difference between fixed and unfixed room ownership. That doesn't mean however that there aren't other factors involved that differentiate friends only vs public rooms.

If PD's servers truly go wonky, it's not going to matter what kind of room you are in as they all use the same servers.

Yes and no. The friends list is handled by PSN servers. The PSN/PD multiplayer network is complex and many different servers and subsystems are involved. I'm doing some research to see if I can pinpoint the differences.

What is obvious though is that since friends lists are not maintained by PD, a friends only room will have an additional layer of complexity involved in order to support that functionality. What I will attempt to discover is what the true impacts of that additional complexity are and if they are significant in our cases.

More importantly, since multiple members seem to be unhappy with friends only, please justify why you would like to mandate friends only rooms.

If the host/members of a division decide among themselves that the benefits of a friends room are not worth the drawbacks/risks, they should be free to choose without penalty.
 
405
United States
North Carolina
SHOCKY_WELLHELL
The host was dced from the room and could not find it or couldn't get back due to friends only.
The host started another room. Everyone joined the the new room.friends only. Several of us couldn't see each other so I re started psn modem etc. When I tried to find the room I couldn't so the host started an open lobby room and everyone was fine then
 

JLBowler

Premium
7,409
United States
California
JLBowler
I read that too, and clearly there is a large difference between fixed and unfixed room ownership. That doesn't mean however that there aren't other factors involved that differentiate friends only vs public rooms.



Yes and no. The friends list is handled by PSN servers. The PSN/PD multiplayer network is complex and many different servers and subsystems are involved. I'm doing some research to see if I can pinpoint the differences.

What is obvious though is that since friends lists are not maintained by PD, a friends only room will have an additional layer of complexity involved in order to support that functionality. What I will attempt to discover is what the true impacts of that additional complexity are and if they are significant in our cases.

More importantly, since multiple members seem to be unhappy with friends only, please justify why you would like to mandate friends only rooms.

If the host/members of a division decide among themselves that the benefits of a friends room are not worth the drawbacks/risks, they should be free to choose without penalty.

We mandate friends only rooms because the issues that Handlebar mentioned a while back. Random guys coming in and screwing around in the room and causing issues. It's simply easier to block these people at the beginning of the night and not have to worry about it over the course of the night. Having the rooms friends only and the host on my friends list also allows me to monitor how full the rooms are leading up to a Sunday night (it would be nice if all the hosts and back up hosts would do this like I have asked multiple times). It also allows me to easily find the rooms leading up to a Sunday night to check settings and jump in and out of rooms if need be.


The host was dced from the room and could not find it or couldn't get back due to friends only.
The host started another room. Everyone joined the the new room.friends only. Several of us couldn't see each other so I re started psn modem etc. When I tried to find the room I couldn't so the host started an open lobby room and everyone was fine then

Drivers not being able to see each other has nothing to do with a room being friends only. It has to do with those two players internet connections not "talking" to each other effectively. It can be fixed by having both players leave the room and reset modem, clear cache, and usually entering in the reverse order they did the first time. It happens in open lobbies just as often as it happens in a friends only room.
 
357
United States
Delaware
fizzer82
We mandate friends only rooms because the issues that Handlebar mentioned a while back. Random guys coming in and screwing around in the room and causing issues. It's simply easier to block these people at the beginning of the night and not have to worry about it over the course of the night. Having the rooms friends only and the host on my friends list also allows me to monitor how full the rooms are leading up to a Sunday night (it would be nice if all the hosts and back up hosts would do this like I have asked multiple times). It also allows me to easily find the rooms leading up to a Sunday night to check settings and jump in and out of rooms if need be.

Again, those issues are subjective and the hosts/drivers should decide if the benefit of not dealing with them is worth the issues of friends only rooms.

As for checking the rooms, all rooms with people on your friends list are filtered via the "Friend's rooms only" option regardless if they are "Friends Only" rooms or not. It is not a "Friend's friend only rooms only" checkbox, or am I missing something?
 

JLBowler

Premium
7,409
United States
California
JLBowler
Again, those issues are subjective and the hosts/drivers should decide if the benefit of not dealing with them is worth the issues of friends only rooms.

As for checking the rooms, all rooms with people on your friends list are filtered via the "Friend's rooms only" option regardless if they are "Friends Only" rooms or not. It is not a "Friend's friend only rooms only" checkbox, or am I missing something?

Allright, you won't let it die and you have pushed me far enough that I'm going to have to throw someone under the bus. It's highly subjective if an open lobby will run better than a friends only room so let it go.

What isn't subjective is that D1 has a history of not getting rid of the random drivers and letting guys race who shouldn't be racing. If you really want to know why we mandate friends only you have no further to look than your division mates. If you wanted freedom to set it up however you wanted to then you should have been responsible when you had that option. D1 was not responsible enough to have freedoms so now we have a league wide policy.

I'm done discussing the issue especially with someone who contributed to the root of the problem.
 
4,387
United States
Tennessee
nail-27
@Nail-27 Well, just having a wheel had improved my laptimes by over a second, having the GTE rim didn't do anything, but I was never expecting it to, I just wanted paddle shifters ON THE ****ING WHEEL!

It isn't like that on the standard-issue GT rim (You could buy a T500RS with the F1 rim already attached to it.). The rim is larger than the GTE rim, but a lot lighter, and the button layout is similar to a DS3, and has powerful FFB, but the huge fixed paddles just weren't enough for me, so I got the GTE rim. I love this rim, I stuck it on once, and never thought to switch back again, I only took it off to remove the paddles from the base.

I do kinda hope that the F1 rim is lighter that the GTE rim, it weighs close to 3 pounds. While I am perfectly capable of using it on full FFB with no power steering in GT6, the weight is still noticeable. With a lighter rim, I could have better steering reaction time.

While a T500RS will never look as good as a Fanatec CSW or any of the wheels it has for it (making a custom case might work, but I don't really care for doing that), having something that resembles an actual F1 wheel (resembles the wheel that Ferrari used on the 150 Italia) is really cool, even if I'm not very fond of Scuderia Ferrari.

It would also bring my total money spent so far on the T500RS ever closer to a $1000 total, not counting the awesome GranStand it's mounted on or the previous WSP I bought as a placeholder until I found a proper cockpit that I didn't need to spend too much money on.

And exhale...
Whooboy....and I thought I was getting into this. But actually I have an ancient Class C Motor home that has been sitting in the parking area built for it that has not been used for...well...until last month..not since 2007 when it aided in the move from Florida. Finally I got it out of its cocoon fumigated it...limped it over to a detailer (who was not amused) and used it a bit locally. I discovered that my FUBAR back did not like the anything but ergonomically designed "Captains Chair"...by the time I got wherever I was going I felt so bad that I wished I was racing with you guys at home. Bingo...sell the sucker..buy the cockpit I wanted, ditto the racing shoes, ditto wireless head set, etc etc. Camper goes tomorrow...how much did you say that "Pretty Wheel" was....

I would argue this to not be entirely true. I had 3 total penalties - all in the qualifier. 2 of them, I was real close, but another I most certainly had 2 wheels still on the track. I know several others said the same thing.

However, what you said is true. You just had to know and adjust your line accordingly.

Yes it was like racing at Monza under the control of a MAD RACE STEWARD. In WRS we raced the Lotus 97 w/o penalties ( had to...there is no time to be politically correct with that glorious beast) and it has become my favorite track. But...I'll just pretend it is a different track..and IMHO it is a much better track to drive than the more ( note the more) Mickey mouse newer tracks.

On the subject of the D6 disaster last night. 3+30 to run 6 10 minute races. I think the point has been missed by most. We have a problem. Lets analyze it and fix it. I race in three Snail Series and this is the only one with a consistent (recurring) problem . Our problem in 6 is not DCs ....it is invisible drivers. We routinely have drivers who can not see each other and while some are repeat offenders others are not. I DO NOT claim to be an IT Boffin...I just drive the sucker. IF BIG BROTHER has a handle on this...why does this only happen on SNAIL Night and not in the other SNAIL events. Also I have NEVER encountered this problem in FGTA or WRS or another couple of series under the GTP Umbrella. We get the appropriate number of DISCOs there but have NEVER had the invisibility problem.

AND there is the problem....THERE IS NO APPROPRIATE NUMBER OF DCs.
 
133
United States
United States
sharkb8ii
One division was having some difficulty recording scores. When the scorekeeper gets home from work, he'll take care of it this evening, then we can go through prelim places, data, etc.
I was having issues last night entering them, had to keep backing out of the spreadsheet and reenter to get the scores to be entered.
 
357
United States
Delaware
fizzer82
Allright, you won't let it die and you have pushed me far enough that I'm going to have to throw someone under the bus. It's highly subjective if an open lobby will run better than a friends only room so let it go.

What isn't subjective is that D1 has a history of not getting rid of the random drivers and letting guys race who shouldn't be racing. If you really want to know why we mandate friends only you have no further to look than your division mates. If you wanted freedom to set it up however you wanted to then you should have been responsible when you had that option. D1 was not responsible enough to have freedoms so now we have a league wide policy.

I'm done discussing the issue especially with someone who contributed to the root of the problem.

And as I stated in a prior post, that issue specifically was due to one misunderstanding and it hasn't happened since, nor would it again. Nevermind friends lists don't prevent that, I think all of us have non-snails on our friends lists.

I can learn from my mistakes and don't need blanket rules to make sure they don't happen against , apparently you don't think that's possible? Let me guess, you vote Democrat.
 
4,206
United States
Tampa, Fl
Ice_Warden
This seems like a pointless argument.

Resistance to this particular rule has no basis in fact. Words like "seems" and "sometimes" aren't solid evidence. This is the PSN...

The rule is in place for solid reasons. With no solid solid evidence to the contrary, just follow the guidelines.

I run DTC every Tuesday as Friends only with zero problems...ever. We run two solid hours, mics on, racing, drinking etc and never a problem. D3 also seems to run smoothly most of the time.

If randoms were allowed to join, start typing, talking etc those problems would increase exponentially.
 
4,206
United States
Tampa, Fl
Ice_Warden
I can learn from my mistakes and don't need blanket rules to make sure they don't happen against , apparently you don't think that's possible? Let me guess, you vote Democrat.

So you vote what...Anarchy?

Who decides who is "responsible enough" to run the room outside of league rules? Does Vettel show up to races and say he's a perfectly responsible adult and should be allowed to skip tech inspection?
 
357
United States
Delaware
fizzer82
This seems like a pointless argument.

Resistance to this particular rule has no basis in fact. Words like "seems" and "sometimes" aren't solid evidence. This is the PSN...

The rule is in place for solid reasons. With no solid solid evidence to the contrary, just follow the guidelines.

I run DTC every Tuesday as Friends only with zero problems...ever. We run two solid hours, mics on, racing, drinking etc and never a problem. D3 also seems to run smoothly most of the time.

If randoms were allowed to join, start typing, talking etc those problems would increase exponentially.

The DTC rooms I've been in (great fun BTW, more snails should join) are generally smaller. Smaller rooms seem to have less issues with it.

There's enough anecdotal evidence to suggest friends only are a hassle for many. And logically there is greater server dependcy to support friends only functionality.

As a guideline or suggestion, sure it makes sense. As a rule though? No, it doesn't. Hosts have a responsibility to provide the best room possible. The friends only option should be one in their toolkit to use as they see fit in order to live up to their responsibilities as the best use of it can be situational.

ETA: I vote libertarian. Rules are fine, and most of the snail regs make perfect sense. This one doesn't, it's known to cause problems, and hosts should have the freedom to choose what works best for them in this case. When you take freedom away, you reduce the need for personal responsibility. When you reduce that need, people by nature become more irresponsible, then you need more rules etc etc. You end up in a downward spiral until you are left with a bloated governmental structure laden with inefficiencies and serving only to reduce the quality of life of the very constituency that granted the governors the power to govern in the first place.

I digress, I've said my piece and I'm done with the conversations.
 
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2,857
United States
Brockport
CoachMK21
no idea bro i dont mess with that data stuff i only do the replays maybe @KTR5 can help you. but i dont think they have been transferred from the directors docs yet.

Others have given the answers, but since I was tagged into this, the directors doc has the current scores. The results doc will be updated shortly. What does shortly mean? After D4 gets their scores and votes put in.

If you just want to know the D7 scores, here is what the directors doc has:

singlepaddy---------85
JCsSoldier----------84
SHOCKY_WELLHELL-74.1
aeroliteflight-------74
blueninjacivic------68
 
405
United States
North Carolina
SHOCKY_WELLHELL
@KTR5 thanks man you are always on top of it.
@JLBowler was not trying to say whether friends room or open lobby good or bad. Just saying if the host gets dced from friends room he can not get back in at all. That's all I was saying. ( I have an electronics degree and I understand why people can't see each other.) As long as I can race I try to reset everything before I enter any room multiple times if I have to.
 
4,387
United States
Tennessee
nail-27
@KTR5 thanks man you are always on top of it.
@JLBowler was not trying to say whether friends room or open lobby good or bad. Just saying if the host gets dced from friends room he can not get back in at all. That's all I was saying. ( I have an electronics degree and I understand why people can't see each other.) As long as I can race I try to reset everything before I enter any room multiple times if I have to.
Please please someone tell me why we can't see each other....that is D6s issue . Is it the guy you can't see or you because you can't see him. There must be one of you guys who work in windowless buildings ( old AF term for VERY SMART PEOPLE with absolutely no common sense because they never leave the lab. :lol:) who can answer this.
 
4,387
United States
Tennessee
nail-27
Others have given the answers, but since I was tagged into this, the directors doc has the current scores. The results doc will be updated shortly. What does shortly mean? After D4 gets their scores and votes put in.

If you just want to know the D7 scores, here is what the directors doc has:

singlepaddy---------85
JCsSoldier----------84
SHOCKY_WELLHELL-74.1
aeroliteflight-------74
blueninjacivic------68
Damn.... you guys are having and old fashioned dog fight. Keep it up.
Cheers
 

JLBowler

Premium
7,409
United States
California
JLBowler
Please please someone tell me why we can't see each other....that is D6s issue . Is it the guy you can't see or you because you can't see him. There must be one of you guys who work in windowless buildings ( old AF term for VERY SMART PEOPLE with absolutely no common sense because they never leave the lab. :lol:) who can answer this.

Not being able to see other drivers is usually due to incompatibility on some level between the drivers that can't see each other. It can usually be fixed by having all the drivers that can't see or can't be seen leave the room, reset some things, and re-enter the room. Sometimes it takes more than one try to get it right. Sometimes they need to enter in a different order.

I can't say what the exact cause is. It could be a lost packet somewhere along the way, it could be a product of overly high ping times between two users causing their connection to time out to each other, or it could be any number of other causes. I can say that it happens in both open lobbies and friends only rooms when using a non-fixed host. I can also say that the only time I have seen it happen in a fixed host room, it was an open lobby and there was one driver that couldn't see any other driver and all the other drivers couldn't see him. I don't know if that was the same issue just acting differently in a fixed host room or if it was something else all together. I haven't run in enough fixed host rooms to say that it doesn't happen in those rooms.

I can't speak for who the culprit might be in D6 but I think it's pretty common knowledge who the culprit is when it happens in D3 as that driver is almost always involved in not being able to see others or others seeing him. If you start to keep track of who is involved when it happens, you will probably be able to isolate the problem connection(s).
 
4,387
United States
Tennessee
nail-27
Not being able to see other drivers is usually due to incompatibility on some level between the drivers that can't see each other. It can usually be fixed by having all the drivers that can't see or can't be seen leave the room, reset some things, and re-enter the room. Sometimes it takes more than one try to get it right. Sometimes they need to enter in a different order.

I can't say what the exact cause is. It could be a lost packet somewhere along the way, it could be a product of overly high ping times between two users causing their connection to time out to each other, or it could be any number of other causes. I can say that it happens in both open lobbies and friends only rooms when using a non-fixed host. I can also say that the only time I have seen it happen in a fixed host room, it was an open lobby and there was one driver that couldn't see any other driver and all the other drivers couldn't see him. I don't know if that was the same issue just acting differently in a fixed host room or if it was something else all together. I haven't run in enough fixed host rooms to say that it doesn't happen in those rooms.

I can't speak for who the culprit might be in D6 but I think it's pretty common knowledge who the culprit is when it happens in D3 as that driver is almost always involved in not being able to see others or others seeing him. If you start to keep track of who is involved when it happens, you will probably be able to isolate the problem connection(s).
THANK YOU. Can the same happen between a host and a single player. The reason I ask is that the only time I get DCd in Another series is when a specific player is hosting.
 

JLBowler

Premium
7,409
United States
California
JLBowler
THANK YOU. Can the same happen between a host and a single player. The reason I ask is that the only time I get DCd in Another series is when a specific player is hosting.

The answer to that would depend if the room was being run as fixed host or non-fixed host. In a non-fixed host room, every player is directly connected to every other player so the host is really just another player who happens to have control of the room settings. For some reason, PD ties the quality of the room settings to whoever the host is when the room is opened. It really should be adjusted based on the connections in the room. In a fixed host room, every player is connected to the host and the host relays information to every other player. If you are running in a fixed host room and only getting DC'd when a certain person hosts, I would say that you probably have a connection issue with that person. It could be on either side or somewhere in the middle.