Open ◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Presented by ButtKicker: Feel What You've Been Missing

Discussion in 'SNAIL Racing League' started by zer05ive, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. hillracing

    hillracing

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    Hey guys can someone give me some lap times for the combos this week?
     
  2. DJones

    DJones

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    I can in about 10 or 20 minutes. I'm heading to d1 meow.
     
  3. hillracing

    hillracing

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    Sweet. I'm in d1 now.
     
  4. zer05ive

    zer05ive Premium

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    The lineup post is already up to date thanks to these guys. :tup:
     
  5. dabneyd

    dabneyd Premium

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    Round 1 is going to be 5 laps. With six the race ran 12 minutes; with 5, 9:55.

    And while I'm near the top...

    Replay Uploaders and Stewards, READ THIS!!!

    The SugarSync share will be shutting down on Saturday! If you do not have access to the new Google Drive share, you will not have access to the replays!
     
  6. zer05ive

    zer05ive Premium

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    Okay, updated.

    Please give me access using the email address you already have for me. :)
     
  7. the2armedmen

    the2armedmen

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    Oh btw I won't be racing this Sunday and could probably miss the next and the week after that. I'm so good at these snail contests, for the grandstand I missed a whole month and for the buttkicker I got my first snail penalties literally the first week it started lol
     
  8. Handlebar

    Handlebar Premium

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    I have this week's lineup on my Global share so Exo can copy them over. I will be off the PS3 for a bit, so if he can't figure out the Borrow glitch, he may need some car help while he rebuilds his acct from zero.
     
  9. dabneyd

    dabneyd Premium

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    I did. It was a live.com address. Is that correct?
     
  10. jobyone

    jobyone Premium

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    New images:)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. zer05ive

    zer05ive Premium

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    Oops. We've been through this before, haven't we.. :dunce:

    Thanks joby! Looks like Goat just won the Triple Crown of lineup photos!
     
  12. zer05ive

    zer05ive Premium

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    Anybody remember this conversation from almost two weeks ago?
    Anyways, go ahead and call me a monster truck because I'm about to go "Grave Digger" on this dead horse..

    Ever since our points adjustment system was implemented last November, I've pretty much been in love with it. It was never intended to penalize divisions with low numbers, but rather compensate for the increased or decreased difficulty in scoring points based on how many drivers were racing. However, if you go through the recent resuls, you'll see that the winner of the division with the most drivers is awarded Prize A. That brings into question whether the ".03" multiplier that we've been using is too high of a multiplier. Perhaps we should use a ".02" multiplier instead? Or how about meet in the middle at ".025"? But whatever multiplier we use, it'll only be an estimation and can never be proven to be exactly correct. It's also based on an average grid size of 10 drivers, which is probably not an ideal factor to base a points adjustment system on since the average number of drivers can fluctuate week to week or month to month.

    Therefore, I set out to to see if we could find another approach. One that doesn't give bonuses or deductions based on the number of drivers on the track, but rather predetermines the value of of each finishing position based on grid size. Also one that doesn't make any assumptions on what our average grid size is. Everyone knows that the maximum points that we can score in a race is 16 points. But if 1st place always gets 16 points no matter how many drivers are competing, why does the number of points last place gets change so radically depending on how many drivers raced? For example, if a driver finished last in a field of 15, he only gets 2 points. However, if a driver finishes last in a field of 7, he gets quadruple the amount with 8 points?? That's doesn't seem right..

    So what if we took the maximum value of points that can be earned in each race (16) and then divided it into equal portions based on the number of drivers in the race. Once you find what that increment is, you award the usual 16 points to 1st place, then you award one increment less for each position down the finishing order. The resulting math looks like this:

    y = number of drivers in the race

    x = 16/y

    z = number of positions behind the 1st place

    16 - zx = points awarded

    Here's the above formula decribed in detail:

    Points awarded when 16 drivers in the race
    y = 16
    x = 16/y
    x = 16/16
    x = 1
    z = number of positions behind the 1st place
    16 - zx = points awarded
    1st = 16 - 0x = 16
    2nd = 16 - 1x = 15
    3rd = 16 - 2x = 14
    4th = 16 - 3x = 13
    5th = 16 - 4x = 12
    6th = 16 - 5x = 11
    7th = 16 - 6x = 10
    8th = 16 - 7x = 9
    9th = 16 - 8x = 8
    10th = 16 - 9x = 7
    11th = 16 - 10x = 6
    12th = 16 - 11x = 5
    13th = 16 - 12x = 4
    14th = 16 - 13x = 3
    15th = 16 - 14x = 2
    16th = 16 - 15x = 1 (last place always wins the value of x)


    Points awarded when 15 drivers in the race
    y = 15
    x = 16/y
    x = 16/15
    x = 1.0666666
    z = number of positions behind 1st place
    16 - zx = points awarded
    1st = 16 - 0x = 16
    2nd = 16 - 1x = 14.933334
    3rd = 16 - 2x = 13.866668
    4th = 16 - 3x = 12.800002
    5th = 16 - 4x = 11.733336
    6th = 16 - 5x = 10.66667
    7th = 16 - 6x = 9.600004
    8th = 16 - 7x = 8.5333374
    9th = 16 - 8x = 7.4666708
    10th = 16 - 9x = 6.4000042
    11th = 16 - 10x = 5.3333376
    12th = 16 - 11x = 4.266671
    13th = 16 - 12x = 3.2000044
    14th = 16 - 13x = 2.1333378
    15th = 16 - 14x = 1.0666666 (last place always wins the value of x)


    Points awarded when 14 drivers in the race
    y = 14
    x = 16/y
    x = 16/14
    x = 1.1428571
    z = number of positions behind the 1st place
    16 - zx = points awarded
    1st = 16 - 0x = 16
    2nd = 16 - 1x = 14.857143
    3rd = 16 - 2x = 13.714286
    4th = 16 - 3x = 12.571429
    5th = 16 - 4x = 11.428572
    6th = 16 - 5x = 10.285715
    7th = 16 - 6x = 9.142858
    8th = 16 - 7x = 8.000001
    9th = 16 - 8x = 6.857144
    10th = 16 - 9x = 5.714287
    11th = 16 - 10x = 4.571429
    12th = 16 - 11x = 3.428572
    13th = 16 - 12x = 2.285715
    14th = 16 - 13x = 1.1428571 (last place always wins the value of x)


    Points awarded when 13 drivers in the race
    y = 13
    x = 16/y
    x = 16/13
    x = 1.2307692
    z = number of positions behind the 1st place
    16 - zx = points awarded
    1st = 16 - 0x = 16
    2nd = 16 - 1x = 14.769231
    3rd = 16 - 2x = 13.538462
    4th = 16 - 3x = 12.307693
    5th = 16 - 4x = 11.076924
    6th = 16 - 5x = 9.846154
    7th = 16 - 6x = 8.615385
    8th = 16 - 7x = 7.384616
    9th = 16 - 8x = 6.153847
    10th = 16 - 9x = 4.923078
    11th = 16 - 10x = 3.692308
    12th = 16 - 11x = 2.461539
    13th = 16 - 12x = 1.2307692 (last place always wins the value of x)


    Points awarded when 12 drivers in the race
    y = 12
    x = 16/y
    x = 16/12
    x = 1.3333333
    z = number of positions behind the 1st place
    16 - zx = points awarded
    1st = 16 - 0x = 16
    2nd = 16 - 1x = 14.666667
    3rd = 16 - 2x = 13.333334
    4th = 16 - 3x = 12.000001
    5th = 16 - 4x = 10.666667
    6th = 16 - 5x = 9.333334
    7th = 16 - 6x = 8.000001
    8th = 16 - 7x = 6.666667
    9th = 16 - 8x = 5.333334
    10th = 16 - 9x = 4.000001
    11th = 16 - 10x = 2.666667
    12th = 16 - 11x = 1.3333333 (last place always wins the value of x)


    Points awarded when 11 drivers in the race
    y = 11
    x = 16/y
    x = 16/11
    x = 1.4545454
    z = number of positions behind the 1st place
    16 - zx = points awarded
    1st = 16 - 0x = 16
    2nd = 16 - 1x = 14.545455
    3rd = 16 - 2x = 13.09091
    4th = 16 - 3x = 11.636364
    5th = 16 - 4x = 10.181819
    6th = 16 - 5x = 8.727273
    7th = 16 - 6x = 7.272728
    8th = 16 - 7x = 5.818183
    9th = 16 - 8x = 4.363637
    10th = 16 - 9x = 2.909092
    11th = 16 - 10x = 1.4545454 (last place always wins the value of x)


    Points awarded when 10 drivers in the race
    y = 10
    x = 16/y
    x = 16/10
    x = 1.6
    z = number of positions behind the 1st place
    16 - zx = points awarded
    1st = 16 - 0x = 16
    2nd = 16 - 1x = 14.4
    3rd = 16 - 2x = 12.8
    4th = 16 - 3x = 11.2
    5th = 16 - 4x = 9.6
    6th = 16 - 5x = 8
    7th = 16 - 6x = 6.4
    8th = 16 - 7x = 4.8
    9th = 16 - 8x = 3.2
    10th = 16 - 9x = 1.6 (last place always wins the value of x)


    Points awarded when 9 drivers in the race
    y = 9
    x = 16/y
    x = 16/9
    x = 1.7777777
    z = number of positions behind the 1st place
    16 - zx = points awarded
    1st = 16 - 0x = 16
    2nd = 16 - 1x = 14.222223
    3rd = 16 - 2x = 12.444445
    4th = 16 - 3x = 10.666667
    5th = 16 - 4x = 8.88889
    6th = 16 - 5x = 7.111112
    7th = 16 - 6x = 5.333334
    8th = 16 - 7x = 3.555557
    9th = 16 - 8x = 1.7777777 (last place always wins the value of x)


    Points awarded when 8 drivers in the race
    y = 8
    x = 16/y
    x = 16/8
    x = 2
    z = number of positions behind the 1st place
    16 - zx = points awarded
    1st = 16 - 0x = 16
    2nd = 16 - 1x = 14
    3rd = 16 - 2x = 12
    4th = 16 - 3x = 10
    5th = 16 - 4x = 8
    6th = 16 - 5x = 6
    7th = 16 - 6x = 4
    8th = 16 - 7x = 2 (last place always wins the value of x)


    Points awarded when 7 drivers in the race
    y = 7
    x = 16/y
    x = 16/7
    x = 2.2857142
    z = number of positions behind the 1st place
    16 - zx = points awarded
    1st = 16 - 0x = 16
    2nd = 16 - 1x = 13.714286
    3rd = 16 - 2x = 11.428572
    4th = 16 - 3x = 9.142858
    5th = 16 - 4x = 6.857144
    6th = 16 - 5x = 4.571429
    7th = 16 - 6x = 2.2857142 (last place always wins the value of x)


    Points awarded when 6 drivers in the race
    y = 6
    x = 16/y
    x = 16/6
    x = 2.6666666
    z = number of positions behind the 1st place
    16 - zx = points awarded
    1st = 16 - 0x = 16
    2nd = 16 - 1x = 13.333334
    3rd = 16 - 2x = 10.666667
    4th = 16 - 3x = 8.000001
    5th = 16 - 4x = 5.333334
    6th = 16 - 5x = 2.6666666 (last place always wins the value of x)


    Points awarded when 5 drivers in the race
    y = 5
    x = 16/y
    x = 16/5
    x = 3.2
    z = number of positions behind the 1st place
    16 - zx = points awarded
    1st = 16 - 0x = 16
    2nd = 16 - 1x = 12.8
    3rd = 16 - 2x = 9.6
    4th = 16 - 3x = 6.4
    5th = 16 - 4x = 3.2 (last place always wins the value of x)


    Points awarded when 4 drivers in the race
    y = 4
    x = 16/y
    x = 16/4
    x = 4
    z = number of positions behind the 1st place
    16 - zx = points awarded
    1st = 16 - 0x = 16
    2nd = 16 - 1x = 12
    3rd = 16 - 2x = 8
    4th = 16 - 3x = 4 (last place always wins the value of x)


    Points awarded when 3 drivers in the race
    y = 3
    x = 16/y
    x = 16/3
    x = 5.3333333
    z = number of positions behind the 1st place
    16 - zx = points awarded
    1st = 16 - 0x = 16
    2nd = 16 - 1x = 10.666667
    3rd = 16 - 2x = 5.3333333 (last place always wins the value of x)


    Points awarded when 2 drivers in the race
    y = 2
    x = 16/y
    x = 16/2
    x = 8
    z = number of positions behind the 1st place
    16 - zx = points awarded
    1st = 16 - 0x = 16
    2nd = 16 - 1x = 8 (last place always wins the value of x)


    Points awarded when 1 drivers in the race (as if we would ever had a 1-driver division :lol:)
    y = 1
    x = 16/y
    x = 16/1
    x = 16
    z = number of positions behind the 1st place
    16 - zx = points awarded
    1st = 16 - 0x = 16 (last place always wins the value of x)


    Using the charts provided above, here's a breakdown of how last week's division winners would have scored:

    martin20az
    Round 1 / Race 1: Finished 2nd out of 9 drivers, which equals 14.222223 points
    Round 1 / Race 2: Finished 1st out of 9 drivers, which equals 16 points
    Round 2 / Race 1: Finished 7th out of 9 drivers, which equals 5.333334 points
    Round 2 / Race 2: Finished 2nd out of 9 drivers, which equals 14.222223 points
    Round 3 / Race 1: Finished 3rd out of 9 drivers, which equals 12.444445 points
    Round 3 / Race 2: Finished 1st out of 9 drivers, which equals 16 points
    Subtotal 78.22 points + 1 Pole = GRAND TOTAL 79.22 points

    jlbowler
    Round 1 / Race 1: Finished 8th out of 9 drivers, which equals 3.555557 points
    Round 1 / Race 2: Finished 1st out of 9 drivers, which equals 16 points
    Round 2 / Race 1: Finished 2nd out of 9 drivers, which equals 14.222223 points
    Round 2 / Race 2: Finished 1st out of 9 drivers, which equals 16 points
    Round 3 / Race 1: Finished 2nd out of 9 drivers, which equals 14.222223
    Round 3 / Race 2: Finished 6th out of 9 drivers, which equals 7.111112 points
    Subtotal 71.11 points + 1 Pole = GRAND TOTAL 72.11 points

    The2ArmedMen
    Round 1 / Race 1: Finished 1st out of 15 drivers, which equals 16 points
    Round 1 / Race 2: Finished 9th out of 15 drivers, which equals 7.4666708 points
    Round 2 / Race 1: Finished 1st out of 13 drivers, which equals 16 points
    Round 2 / Race 2: Finished 4th out of 13 drivers, which equals 12.307693 points
    Round 3 / Race 1: Finished 1st out of 14 drivers, which equals 16 points
    Round 3 / Race 2: Finished 4th out of 14 drivers, which equals 12.571429 points
    Subtotal 80.35 +1 (Pole) +1 (Pole) +1 (Pole) +1 (Triple Crown) = GRAND TOTAL 84.35 points

    Bandit0627
    Round 1 / Race 1: Finished 1st out of 7 drivers, which equals 16 points
    Round 1 / Race 2: Finished 3rd out of 7 drivers, which equals 11.428572 points
    Round 2 / Race 1: Finished 1st out of 6 drivers, which equals 16 points
    Round 2 / Race 2: Finished 3rd out of 6 drivers, which equals 10.666667 points
    Round 3 / Race 1: Finished 1st out of 6 drivers, which equals 16
    Round 3 / Race 2: Finished 3rd out of 6 drivers, which equals 10.666667 points
    Subtotal 80.76 points + 1 (Pole) +1 (Pole) = GRAND TOTAL 82.76 points

    EAO-HarleyMan
    Round 1 / Race 1: Finished 2nd out of 7 drivers, which equals 13.714286 points
    Round 1 / Race 2: Finished 1st out of 8 drivers, which equals 16 points
    Round 2 / Race 1: Finished 2nd out of 8 drivers, which equals 14 points
    Round 2 / Race 2: Finished 2nd out of 9 drivers, which equals 14.222223 points
    Round 3 / Race 1: Finished 1st out of 9 drivers, which equals 16 points
    Round 3 / Race 2: Finished 1st out of 9 drivers, which equals 16 points
    Subtotal 89.94 points +1 (Pole) +1 (Pole) = GRAND TOTAL 91.94 points


    And this is how this proposed adjustment system would compare to last Sunday's results:

    Division 1
    1. martin20az -------- 87 points (84.39 79.22 for Prize B prize purposes only)

    Division 2
    1. jlbowler ---------- 82 points (79.51 72.11 for prize purposes only)

    Division 3
    1. The2ArmedMen ------ 86 points (95.42 84.35 for Prize A Prize B)

    Division 4
    1. Bandit0627 -------- 94 points (83.68 82.76 for prize purposes only Prize C)

    Division 5
    1. EAO-HarleyMan ----- 89 points (84.26 91.94 for Prize C Prize A)

    One tweak to this proposed system that I would be in favor of is to apply Bowler's system to the Pole Position and Triple Crown bonus points. In other words, if there are ten drivers competing for Pole Position, the winner of it gets exactly 1 point, but if say, there are only 7 drivers competing for pole, the winner would only get .91 points. On the flip side, if there are 15 drivers competing for pole, the winner would get 1.15 points etc.

    Please let me know your thoughts on this new system to determine our prize winners. If you guys don't like it, I've developed a system based on what I call a "success ratio" or a "performance percentage". In short, it basically take the number of drivers that you finished in front of during the night and divides it by the number of drivers you finished behind during the night. Best ratio wins! However, I like the idea of determining our prize winners using points and not ratios. Plus, the ratios get scewed up by the pole bonuses. :ouch:
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2013
  13. JLBowler

    JLBowler Premium

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    It's just for the prize determination correct? I say what we had before what we have now wasn't perfect. What we have now isn't perfect. This proposal probably won't be perfect either. It might be better than what we have now but we won't know unless we give it a shot and track the results.
     
  14. Handlebar

    Handlebar Premium

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    It looks good at first glance.
     
  15. zegrated

    zegrated

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    Looks like an improvement.

    One question: why does there have to be a separate points system altogether to determine the prize winners? Why not just use that system in the first place so that you wouldn't need to make an adjustment? Or am I missing something?
     
  16. Wolfsatz

    Wolfsatz

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    Hey Snails...
    planning to do something tonight... Option 1
    Nurb Pre-cycler - 2 laps around the Nurb Nordschleife with this week's cars which would be an really fun fit for that track.
    Option 2 . Another round of practice with this week's tracks.

    Any interest?
     
  17. DJones

    DJones

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    Yes.
     
  18. TEX36

    TEX36 Premium

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    Yes - Both
     
  19. nmcp1

    nmcp1

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    I'm in for some practice. Should be on around 9:30 est
     
  20. Chiochan

    Chiochan

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    This is because grid size inversely affects overall points. It is to balance this out from division to division.
     
  21. tevesh2

    tevesh2

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    Going in for some practice now, 6:30 pst.
     
  22. Wolfsatz

    Wolfsatz

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    Heading to D1
     
  23. DJones

    DJones

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    Mi dos
     
  24. Wolfsatz

    Wolfsatz

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    Tres Snails in D1
     
  25. the2armedmen

    the2armedmen

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    I'm just gonna put it out there that the only thing I would change about the point system is to make the second race worth less. Sometimes I feel like I'm better off getting 3rd in the first race than first so in the second race I can make more easy passes. For the most part when people miss races it's because of real life obligations. Awarding points for participation means penalizing all the folks that struggle to get off on Sunday nights, that's no bueno. My 2 cents
     
  26. zegrated

    zegrated

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    Yes I understand that. I'm asking why we don't just use the prize winner points "adjustments" as the actual points standings. Why don't we calculate everyone's points like that, and not just the leaders of every division? I'm guessing maybe because it would get too complicated? But it would allow us to more accurately compare everyone's points between divisions...

    Just a thought...
     
  27. zegrated

    zegrated

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    Yeah I've thought about that too. The 2nd races should have some multiplier attached to them, for example make it worth 0.75 the first race, or something like that.
     
  28. Chiochan

    Chiochan

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    Because those adjusted points are only used for prize distribution. It is not their actual point total.
     
  29. Rallywagon

    Rallywagon Premium

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    The reason for not doing it through the whole grid is because its not necessary. Only the 1st place finishers get adjusted. o the rest don't need adjustment since they aren't winning prizes, they are just scored for standings. Adjusting 5 people is far easier than 50+-.
    At least, that is how the current system works. The new one that Zero put out there sounds like it would have to be implemented through out the night since the score will need to be adjusted for everyone. Which shouldn't be hard. Simply add another field abouts each race asking for the grid size and add the variables to the scripts already in place to keep score.
     
  30. socalnatv

    socalnatv

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    I see you have no problem making it to the podium!

    Congratulations on making it into the 100 podiums club!!!

    Well done sir.