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  • Thread starter zer05ive
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I think if we do change it should happen to orris after tonight's combos have been run. It would be unfair to ask the lower divisions to relearn their lines hours before league night. My $.002
 
pyxen
Relearn what lines ?? Nothing should change, regardless of penalties. The point is to stay on the track, and not hit the boundaries anyways...
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While that is a utopian idea...and I wholeheartedly agree....it is far from reality.

Practice or race in a room with penalties off and slowly watch the racing lines change as they try to see how much they can get away with.
 
JoeW
If by resentment you mean I think you are a figurehead whose obvious hero worship of certain D1 members allows said members to make decisions for themselves...then you're right. When is the last time you made a decision that went against the opinion of certain outspoken longstanding D1 members?


So I'd say you most certainly do read the opinions of everyone on this thread...no doubt about it. But there is absolutely no way you'd do anything to draw the ire of your heroes. If even one of your heroes threatened to leave over any issue that came up, you'd cave in faster than I could type "puppet". To avoid appearing like a figurehead, why not just let them run their own separate SNAIL series instead of being one of many divisions in a series but having different rules than the rest?


I can't be bothered to actually fact check, but how often do you actually race in the league you founded? Word of mouth says very seldom. I'm not saying the McDonalds CEO needs to flip burgers to make proper informed decisions affecting the entire company but try watching a few episodes of Undercover Boss now and then.


You also like to point out how you have never heard of any issues within that division so why change it? If you made your own division rules, would you complain about it?
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It doesn't take long to realize why the decision was made to try turn penalties off in D1. It also doesn't take long to see why you're so bitter about it. You call it "hero worship" that we sided with an almost unanimous vote to turn penalties off. I call it sour grapes that the one person who didn't want them off is name-calling to this day because the decision didn't go in his favor.

JoeW
I can call a spade a spade. Am I dick for it? Probably. But zero and I have never really seen eye to eye on anything. If he calls it resentment then I want to show him where my opinions stem from.

I have no problem calling any of these "Leaders" out on anything. Most people who agree with me don't really want to say anything publicly for "fear" of being lambasted. I've been through all that...so I really don't mind being drug through the public opinion ringer. People who really know me through racing and online racing chat really know what kind of guy I am.

I don't need my "like" button to be checked as that would associate someone with me. Calling me a "Coach" is a bit off I'd say. I never drove purposefully like a douche and then tried to blame it on everyone else.

I don't mind being the dick...just on my own merits;)
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Actually calling you a "Coach" isn't as off as you think, at least not based on your comments above. If there was one thing that Coach did more than anything else, it was that he always talked about how many people supported him, but just didn't want to say anything anything out of fear.

JoeW
It's all good Pyxen. we've never had issues before. I know it seems ridiculous for me to even be posting here because I haven't driven on Sunday much since they changed the start time...but I still at least buy the cars and have aspirations that something will happen on race night allowing me to participate one day.


I've had public issues with a couple of high profile people here. ButI don't have a reputation to tarnish by doing so. So I don't really mind throwing it out there when some of these old debates pop up;)
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Isn't that the definition of a troll? I'm not saying that you are one, but if you read your last comments there, it almost sounds like that's what you're trying to be. :confused: I think it'd be better if you actually cared about your reputation. I don't care if you always disagree with me, but when people on the internet start name-calling and stirring things up because they don't care about their reputation, that sounds a lot like trollhood IMO.

JoeW
I'm not saying he doesn't put the time in or isn't respected. I just think his decision making history follows almost exactly a course placating certain people.
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Wow. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. I don't know who these people are that you think I'm placating, but I do know that there's only been one single person in the entire history of this league that has actually asked to be placated - and that's you.

After your first night in the league, @dabneyd filed a complaint on you and you got a minor penalty. However, you then proceeded to send me a PM stating that you wouldn't race with us again unless the penalty was lifted. For someone who has such a seemingly huge resentment of me placating people, I find it incredibly ironic that you're the only person..the only person..to have ever actually asked me to placate them! Makes me wonder if it's that you don't like when people are placated, or if it's just that you don't like it when you are not placated. :rolleyes:

EDIT: To anyone wondering if I lifted the penalty, the answer is a resounding NO. I ignored his PM and actually made it a point to not even reply to it.
 
It has already been noted that there are points on tracks where snail wouldn't issue a penalty and the game would. Not having to worry about this penalty would change my line.
 
Omg you are so full of yourself. You actually Pm'd me asking me to come back and race. You asked me into a private lounge so you could talk to me about it personally.

I disagreed with that penalty and still do. I was the new guy on the block in his first snail race and Dabney filed a penalty and I disagreed. You PMd me several times asking me why I disagreed.

Don't lie about something that happened over a year and a half ago.

Your self importance is not surprising. Gotta save face in front of the masses. Keep it coming...
 
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@zer05ive

Here's the inconsistency created by having penalties on or off across divisions. With penalties off, drivers only have to worry about the S.N.A.I.L. OLR. With penalties on, drivers have to worry about the invisible and seemingly randomly placed boundaries that PD has instituted on certain tracks. How stupid is it for a driver to get a penalty because they ran over an invisible line on the track that is well within what is allowed by S.N.A.I.L.?

The S.N.A.I.L. OLR on the subject of track boundaries is written in such a way that there is most always a visible boundary on the track. PD is taking that away from us on certain tracks and replacing it with a boundary that doesn't make sense and 5/6 of the league are forced to deal with it while the elite few don't have to.

It may or may not be intentional on your part, but to allow the elite to play by a different set of rules and when questioned about it, tell the rest of the group that changing what they enjoy is not an option sure makes it appear as if you are catering to the few.
 
Slept 7 straight. Haven't done that in a while. Musta been all that intellectual stimulation last night. Maybe it was the tread climber. Doesn't really matter.

I'm going to take a couple more shots at the no-penalty camp, then find some cover.

Mostly what I hear from them is how they disagree with the in game interpretation of the track boundary. Folks, I don't care how broke it is, I couldn't give a tin fart in a whirlwind that you disagree with where the game places those out of bounds "cones", you KNOW where they are. Stop hitting them. Inconsistent? Hardly. It's consistently bad but, I'll say it again, you know where it's bad. How hard is that to work with?

Yeah, sure, an honest mistake can be made. Should you pay for that mistake? Absolutely. A mistake without consequences isn't even worthy of being called a mistake. The sooner those consequences occur, the quicker they will be associated with the causal mistake and the correct changes made.

I'll be perfectly clear here. I am in no way, shape or form, supporting turning penalties off. I am for a standard that applies to everyone, and being the best of the best is no reason at all to be exempt from the standard. If your that good, then prove it using what everyone else uses.

Soundtiger, you brought up a concern about allowing the game to make bad calls. Really? The game is programmed to behave in a certain fashion and can only do what it's programmed to do. See the third paragraph of this post. All that aside, the stewards are human, while the review system is set up in what I think is a fashion that limits "bad calls" to a bare minimum, it can still happen.

Have I ever gotten penalties I didn't agree with? Yup. I know it's there however and even if I scrunch up my face and call the referee bad names, the next time through there I do it right. If for no other reason, than to not give that virtually digital bastard with the flag the satisfaction of waving it at me again.

I'll say this again as well. Find the root of the problem. It is not the in game penalty system.
 
JoeW
While that is a utopian idea...and I wholeheartedly agree....it is far from reality.

Practice or race in a room with penalties off and slowly watch the racing lines change as they try to see how much they can get away with.
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I know...I think you can only take it so far though. How much is anyone actually willing to break the spirit of what we're trying to do ?
 
JoeW
Omg you are so full of yourself. You actually Pm'd me asking me to come back and race. You asked me into a private lounge so you could talk to me about it personally.

I disagreed with that penalty and still do. I was the new guy on the block in his first snail race and Dabney filed a penalty and I disagreed. You PMd me several times asking me why I disagreed.

Don't lie about something that happened over a year and a half ago.

Your self importance is not surprising. Gotta save face in front of the masses. Keep it coming...
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Yes, I asked you to come back and race and you replied with a PM that included this:
JoeW
I would definitely return if the penalty was lifted or he withdrew his protest.
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Those are your words, not mine. I have nothing to lie about, and the only person appearing to try to save face is you.
 
So... Which combo do y'all think will have the closest finish from, say first to... Seventh... Across all the divisions?
 
One note for drivers in Division 2. Penalties will be on tonight. Unless I am told differently by a higher authority, that's were they will remain.

I have to say that I am on the fence but if I had to choose, I would say penalties should stay on for all.

I would like to ask the GTA finalists a question. When playing GT6 in the finals, honestly, how did GTA have the game set up?
 
Re: tightest finishes -- Probably the Subie...familiar platform and track. Suzuka always gets the spins, and the mustang is tail happy if you're not careful!

Good question fzappa!
 
Save face? Hilarious.

You did not lift the penalty but you did ask me to return which I did.

You already lied by stating you didn't Pm me and now you admit to asking me to return. Somewhat different than your earlier statement about you not returning my PMs etc.

Sry Joby :(
 
I'm new to the league , but for what it's worth , I host a lot online and I've found penalties and damage is the only way to keep proper racing.
 
USERID_77a23
I'm new to the league , but for what it's worth , I host a lot online and I've found penalties and damage is the only way to keep proper racing.
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Not really because of the retarded an inconsistent collision penalties. The only way in my opinion to have clean racing is penalties off and heavy damage. With the right group of people the racing is spectacular.
 
StewardAnnouncments.png

​
I would like to take a moment to announce @jobyone will be taking the reigns of stewardship for D6. Thank you jobyone for stepping up and filling a critical role.

@kcheeb - please let me know, or add jobyone's necessary information, to the appropriate cells and sheets so notifications are sent correctly.

I would also like to announce a Guest Steward will be assisting the Steward Corp with reviews this week. He brings a breadth of experience as a real world race driver and advanced driving technique instructor. He is also well steeped in Gran Turismo and versed in GTP and SNAIL OLR policies and guidelines. Please welcome @Marcus Garvey. I'm sure his insight and experience will be welcome with reviews, this week and in the future.

​
 
JoeW
Save face? Hilarious.

You did not lift the penalty but you did ask me to return which I did.

You already lied by stating you didn't Pm me and now you admit to asking me to return. Somewhat different than your earlier statement about you not returning my PMs etc.

Sry Joby :(
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Well...

Anyway. Who is up for joining us for the Late Night Races? It will be a fun relaxed environment complete with hat cakes!!!

Well maybe not hat cakes. Who wants to eat a hat.
 
Dragonwhisky
Soundtiger, you brought up a concern about allowing the game to make bad calls. Really? The game is programmed to behave in a certain fashion and can only do what it's programmed to do. See the third paragraph of this post. All that aside, the stewards are human, while the review system is set up in what I think is a fashion that limits "bad calls" to a bare minimum, it can still happen.
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I think the game being programed a certain way is the problem. SNAIL has its own set on rules and the game doesn't follow these rules. This is what creates inconsistencies.

My problem with these penalties is that even though someone follows the SNAIL rules and is doing what they are supposed to be doing they can still be penalized. To me this is unfair, inconsistent and ruins the racing experience.
 
JoeW
Save face? Hilarious.

You did not lift the penalty but you did ask me to return which I did.

You already lied by stating you didn't Pm me and now you admit to asking me to return. Somewhat different than your earlier statement about you not returning my PMs etc.

Sry Joby :(
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I sent you a PM and you replied to it. After reading your reply, I chose to ignore it.

I'll tell you what's hilarious.. It you complaining about me placating people when you're the only person to have ever actually asked to be placated yourself. You can talk about me asking you to race and who replied to what, but that doesn't change the fact that you asked for the penalty to be lifted as a condition to return:
JoeW
I would definitely return if the penalty was lifted or he withdrew his protest.
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I sat down here to type up a message about going to 7 divisions, but as I was contemplating the wording, I started to reflect on why I became a S.N.A.I.L.

1. To have some good times racing
2. To chill with some good people
3. To share an experience with people I like to spend time with
4. To have fun

I didn't join to:

1. Deal with people whose ego's are the size of all outdoors
2. Handle peoples petty arguments
3. Constantly defend what I think is right
4. Use untold hours of my personal time for seemingly nothing
5. See friends get abused

In short, the juice is no longer worth the squeeze.
 
pyxen
Can we please just try it sometime ? Penalties off and heavy damage that is..
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I'd agree with penalties off but heavy damage is something I wouldn't want to see. That can defiantly be a problem and make for some bad experiences.
 

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