Open ◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Presented by ButtKicker: Feel What You've Been Missing

Discussion in 'SNAIL Racing League' started by zer05ive, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. JLBowler

    JLBowler Premium

    Messages:
    6,718
    Location:
    United States
    Could you change the brake pads on a car in a racing series where all the cars are supposed to be identically prepared. You probably could as it would be difficult to enforce unless you got completely carried away. Just because a rule can be cheated with little to no chance of being caught does not make it ok to cheat the rule, it just makes you a cheater.

    The fact that we can't enforce a rule about not changing brake balance is the only reason we don't have it. The spirit of S.N.A.I.L. is to run identical cars on identical tires and let the driver make the difference. It is only through an oversight on the part of PD that the tuning of brake balance is allowed. Don't even start on not all cars have even braking between front and rear. The idea isn't to replicate reality with the settings, it's to put everyone in an equally prepared car and let the driver make the difference. If we were going for realistic setups, then the rear toe of nearly every car in the game would need to be changed (along with many other suspension settings).
     
  2. Pichon617

    Pichon617

    Messages:
    800
    Location:
    United States
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-Design


    One-make racing (known as spec racing inNorth America) is a racing category in which all competitors race in identical or very similar vehicles from the same manufacturer, often using the same model. Typically, this means the same chassis, tyres and engine are used by all drivers. The idea behind one-make racing is that success will be based more on driver skill and car setup instead of engineering skill and budget. One-make series are popular at an amateur level as they are affordable, due to the use of a common engine and chassis.[citation needed]

    Examples of one-make racing from around the world include Porsche Carrera Cup andSupercup, Radical European Masters, John Cooper Mini Challenge and Commodore Cup. There are also various formula categories that utilize one-make racing, such as Formula Renault and the Formula Car Challenge.[citation needed]

    I found this on wiki this might help
     
  3. chuyler1

    chuyler1 Premium

    Messages:
    4,548
    Location:
    United States
    I hadn't bothered to change the brakes on any of the combos...until the Lotus. It didn't make me any faster than my best lap, it just made me run consistent laps.

    Try this, don't brake for this corner. Lift off the gas slowly and time your turn in so you don't have to brake. The Lotus has enough grip that it can hold a pretty quick line. Tap the brakes and the rear end loses grip and doesn't regain it fast enough to power out of the turn.

    I considered the GP track but I thought SNAILers would enjoy learning a few turns now, and maybe upgrade to the GP course later. This shorter track has enough passing opportunities and I'd rather see racers confident with fewer corners than all over the place on a long new track. On a related note, I thought the Rocket would have been great at the Brands Hatch short track too!
     
  4. Rallywagon

    Rallywagon Premium

    Messages:
    7,659
    Location:
    United States
    Not realy a help, since we are talking Spec, not one make. Spc is directly in relation to detailed specifications of a car. One makes like you are talking about allow the the adjustment of specific car parameters, spec requies all to be the same. And I do see you referenced the word spec in there, but you also linked to a portion about car setup, which most one make type races at that level allow adjustments to suspension. A better example would be Prod classes of SCCA SoloII. In there classes, you car must remain from the dealership stock. No back yard modifications, not PVC CAI. No gutted or removed cat, even the tires mut be of a certain type.

    Sorry, I side with you, I was just argueing for the sake of it. Been watching a lot of Chistorpher Hitchens and Sam Harris debates...
     
    JoeW likes this.
  5. Pichon617

    Pichon617

    Messages:
    800
    Location:
    United States
    Car tuning is modification of the performance or appearance of a vehicle. For actual "tuning" in the sense of automobiles or vehicles, see engine tuning. Most vehicles leave the factory set up for an average driver's expectations and conditions. Tuning, on the other hand, has become a way to personalize the characteristics of a vehicle to the owner's preference. Cars may be altered to provide better fuel economy, produce more power, or to provide better handling.

    Car tuning is related to auto racing, although most performance cars never compete. Tuned cars are built for the pleasure of owning and driving. Exterior modifications include changing the aerodynamic characteristics of the vehicle via side skirts, front and rear bumpers, spoilers, splitters, air vents and light weight wheels.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_tuning

    Yes changing break balance is tuning for better handling
     
  6. JLBowler

    JLBowler Premium

    Messages:
    6,718
    Location:
    United States
    True spec racing means that every car is to the same spec in every enforceable way. S.N.A.I.L. is a get in the car and race type of SPEC racing. Think IROC where all the cars were maintained by one crew and were set up exactly the same and the only difference was the color and number on the car (sound familiar).

    One make racing is what we would have if we put everyone in the same car and allowed tuning. That would not be true SPEC racing. SPEC comes from the word specification. It means all cars are of the same specification or SPEC and the driver is the only difference.
     
  7. Pichon617

    Pichon617

    Messages:
    800
    Location:
    United States
    Every1 races with same car
     
  8. JLBowler

    JLBowler Premium

    Messages:
    6,718
    Location:
    United States
    One make and SPEC racing are not the same thing. Just because Wikipedia says something does not make it true. The rules of the individual racing series would determine weather or not it was one make or SPEC racing.
     
    watermelonpunch likes this.
  9. fastfox400

    fastfox400

    Messages:
    4,280
    Location:
    United States
    @JLBowler Is it possible to leave me in Division 1?
     
  10. JLBowler

    JLBowler Premium

    Messages:
    6,718
    Location:
    United States
    This is a link to rules for a one make series that runs at a local paved oval track. If you read through it, you will quickly find that their intent is to make the cars close to equal, but in no way are they going to make all the cars identical. This would be an example of one make racing. The only car allowed is a pre '79 Toyota Corolla but they allow certain changes to be made to the car. Most of them are in the name of safety, but how you perform those changes is left wide open.

    http://www.racemadera.com/mst.html
     
    watermelonpunch likes this.
  11. Azure Flare

    Azure Flare (Banned)

    Messages:
    9,894
    Location:
    I personally don't care if someone adjusted the brake bias, if it helps them drive better, so be it.
     
    chatva likes this.
  12. Handlebar

    Handlebar Premium

    Messages:
    3,968
    Location:
    United States
    In reading many of the SCCA rules, and similar - and I've not participated, I'm only reading before I buy something to understand the implications of what I could or could not participate in with my future 'fun car' - either rules will specify that parts 'must be OEM' (specific specifications), or 'no greater than / up to... specification of X' - so in some series, there may be some small variances on some parts.

    To me, that makes sense, especially with older cars. Even a 15 year old car would have a hard time being exactly identical to every other car in the field, down to caliper measurements of everything.

    At least, that's what the rules look like to me. Once it heats up here and folks are running on a track, I hope to spend some paddock time with some of the clubs.

    I'm going to hit the local indoor Kart place in a few to check it out, even though they've got some league running at the moment. I figure it can't hurt to see how many drivers that is, etc.
     
    kcheeb likes this.
  13. CAgrown805

    CAgrown805

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    United States
    Did my time attack and test
    waiting on PM.
     
    kcheeb, Skills and Handlebar like this.
  14. DrKronin

    DrKronin Premium

    Messages:
    760
    A quick FYI for anyone looking to get a G27: Newegg has them for $215 right now.
     
  15. Rallywagon

    Rallywagon Premium

    Messages:
    7,659
    Location:
    United States
    Take a look at SoloII, aka Autocross. Check out page 69, street category, from SCCA's Solo rules book. As you can see, they are pretty specific thateverything must at least be as identical to stock as possible. Which for most cars means, OEM specific. Even running old Triumphs or MG's, you can still get OEM spec parts. It certainly, and in clear terms, states that you can not use any part that would alter the performance of the car without being placed into another class. The only exception being that of safety equipment, even then though you are limited, in that you can not add racing seats. Though I suppose that adding a roll cage, which is legal, would also act to greatly stiffen a chassis.
    Whats more, once you start actually breaking it down by class, you will see that Solo street category is actually very much spec racing. Each class as a small group of cars that are similar in size, weight and drivetrain. Not truely one make, but very close to spec.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
    Handlebar likes this.
  16. Kylar One

    Kylar One

    Messages:
    5
    This. I'm interested in joining this league can you post me the info.
     
    Skills, Handlebar and kcheeb like this.
  17. Pifachu

    Pifachu

    Messages:
    123
    Location:
    Canada
    Room open for training

    1472-6681-3243-9092-4747

    I will be in until 7 oclock,


    edit: what kind of lap you guys run a silverstone international, so far i got 1:05.873, its fast for me but is it fast for you ? Hey hey
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  18. hooker4

    hooker4

    Messages:
    396
    Location:
    United States
    Thats a good lap time. Ive been running low to mid 1:03 but I have seen a 1:02.7
     
  19. GRBOXER98

    GRBOXER98

    Messages:
    95
    Location:
    United States
    Is there gonna be races tomorrow?
     
  20. cmbeal317

    cmbeal317 Premium

    Messages:
    2,674
    Location:
    United States
    No official races tomorrow because of the Super Bowl, and I'm not sure if anyone else is doing anything.
     
  21. DriftinAssassin

    DriftinAssassin

    Messages:
    962
    No sir, Super Bowl break. :D
     
  22. Handlebar

    Handlebar Premium

    Messages:
    3,968
    Location:
    United States
    Daaannnnggggggg. :(

    'Nother week of reading your bumper stickers for a lap before you become Speck-o- @hooker4 -in-Distance, I reckon. ;)

    I believe the Enduro is running tonight, but I may try to get some casual racing going later, or tomorrow before 4 pm.
     
  23. Skills

    Skills Premium

    Messages:
    1,124
    Location:
    United States
    @Kylar One,
    Thanks for your interest!
    We would love to have you in the league. Here's what you need to know and do in order to join:

    We run a clean league by enforcing a strict penalty system based on the S.N.A.I.L. OLR (which is a modified version of the GTP OLR). We also expect all of our drivers to know and follow The Good Racecraft Guide.
    Please become versed in both if you aren't already. Once that is complete, please follow the steps below to complete your entry into the league:

    1. You take the S.N.A.I.L. OLR and Racecraft Test

    2. You run the Time Trial and submit your information by midnight EST on Saturday night if you want to race this Sunday.

    3. @JLBowler PM's you with your assigned Division that we feel will give you the closest competition. You will be added to the drivers list.

    4. The Race Director or Primary Host from the corresponding SNAIL Division will send you a PSN friend request. Sunday night you will need to sort the online lobbies by friends and join the lobby named 'snailracing.org Division_(x) based off your Division placement from JLBowler. That lobby will be where you race Sunday.

    5. You drive fast and clean on Sunday :tup:

    The original post has everything you need to know about what to expect on Sunday night and what you will need to have completed in order to be competitive. If you have any questions, please feel free to post your question on the thread.

    If you have a preference for car/wheel colour and racing number, please follow the instruction contained here.
    To avoid duplication, the currently claimed combinations can be found here.

    During the week we run a number of different events, we encourage all SNAILs to join as many as possible.

    Welcome to S.N.A.I.L. :cheers:
     
    zer05ive and kcheeb like this.
  24. Handlebar

    Handlebar Premium

    Messages:
    3,968
    Location:
    United States
    Exiting room shortly - short attention span.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014
  25. GRBOXER98

    GRBOXER98

    Messages:
    95
    Location:
    United States
    Quick Question: If you improve body rigidity on a car can it still enter online races with "No tuning allowed"?
     
  26. Handlebar

    Handlebar Premium

    Messages:
    3,968
    Location:
    United States
    Rather than Can-I, I wish it was a matter of Should-I.

    I know there has been a question on the efficacy as well as availability, but I do not know the answer to either.
     
    simracejesse likes this.
  27. kcheeb

    kcheeb Premium

    Messages:
    4,753
    Location:
    Canada
    Attention S.N.A.I.L.s

    Promotion and relegation has been done for the February Season.

    At the moment I'm just making room in the Results Doc for the new season.

    You'll be able to see where you place in the 2014.02 tab of the Results Document once I get finished Monkeying with it.

    I'll make the formal announcement when I've finished.

    :cheers:
     
  28. kcheeb

    kcheeb Premium

    Messages:
    4,753
    Location:
    Canada
    Announcing the February Lineup for S.N.A.I.L. SPEC Racing

    The February Tab of the Results Document has been updated with driver movement for the month of February.

    Thanks to @JLBowler for providing new insight to Promotion and Relegation.
    @Oshawa-Joe will have the Drivers List updated shortly.
    @ExoSphere64 will make sure our rooms run like clockwork next week. Team S.N.A.I.L. needs you :D

    To all the S.N.A.I.L.s that drive week after week, Thank You! Look at all the One and Two Year trophies on our drivers list :D

    There's no clear cut formula for getting promoted or relegated. With January behind us and quite a bit more data at our fingertips, we're confident you'll be in much closer racing this month. As was said last month, if we've made a mistake placing anyone WE WILL ACT QUICKLY to rectify the issue :tup:

    We take into account a number of factors to determine candidates for promotion and relegation. Once we've identified the drivers, we analyze the data at our disposal and make sure the people being moved fit into the Division they're being moved to. Then we pull the trigger :dopey:

    Some of the criteria for being ELIGIBLE to be moved are:

    1. Points for the month
    2. How many drivers are in each division.
    3. Race pace
    4. Individual Lap Times
    5. How you compare to other racers in your division and the division you're a candidate for.
    6. Number of times you've raced that month.
    7. How cleanly you've raced this past month.

    Why do we do this?

    1. To get you involved in races you will be racing in, not just putting in laps.
    2. To incent you to improve your driving and racecraft.
    3. To give you something to strive for.
    4. To make it possible for you to have fun playing GT6.
    5. Give the servers a break.

    We want you to be in good, close, clean racing :tup:

    If you have any questions or concerns about promotion or relegation, feel free to pm me. I'd be more than happy to talk to you about it.

    Cheers and good racing all!

    kcheeb
     
  29. EvoSpecX

    EvoSpecX

    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Trinidad and Tobago
    Hiiiiiiii
     
  30. Rallywagon

    Rallywagon Premium

    Messages:
    7,659
    Location:
    United States
    [​IMG]