◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Currently Recruiting for GT7 - JOIN TODAY!!Open 

  • Thread starter zer05ive
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intoflatlines
I hope you're joking. The point is that the cars should be the same in terms of "physical" characteristics. This is easily done by not changing brake bias or adding additional chassis rigidity. Extraneous factors will always be present. But just because that's true, why not do what we can to at least normalize the actual car's physics? C'mon man.
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Well I was serious about that last part about wasting seat time, but my point was that it doesn't make a noticeable difference so we can't possibly know if someones changed it or not. It should be a given that it's frowned upon. Shoot I frown every time I see a new driver ask about changing the brake balance and someone says "sure you can change it. You can also add chassis reinforcement.) If it absolutely must be disclosed, it should be prefaced with something like "Some people go against the tenets of good racecraft and being a gentlemanly driver and seek an unfair advantage by......" I'm just glad we can regulate what we can.

TEX36
Question: What are the GT-Academy rules about cars and changing tires? Might be a good idea for us to consider those limitations as well...... IF we what to help our drivers reach the finals.
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Very true. I bet they will have to drive at least one car on comfort tires.
 
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TEX36
If I understand correctly, in GT-Academy the finalists are not allowed to adjust anything. They compete in cars that are exactly the same, in all regards. Why, then, if a SNAIL member is attempting to reach the finals .......... why would they want to compete with anything else?

As a supporting league, behind the drivers who make it to the Finals, why would we want to provide any other basis for our weekly races? My vote: Buy the car, change the oil, and Go ......... Period.

Question: What are the GT-Academy rules about cars and changing tires? Might be a good idea for us to consider those limitations as well...... IF we what to help our drivers reach the finals.
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Buy the car, change the oil, paint it chrome gold, then go (...well not you guys...that's my color...unofficially...I should add it to the list). ;)

But in all seriousness, I really do wish the brake bias and rigidity things were enforceable too. I run without them 98% of the time, but I have shifted the brake balance in one race before where the car was particularly understeer-y (I believe it was a 4WD on a deep forest). It CAN, and did, make a significant difference.

However, if there was an "official" position from the league frowning on such things, I would gladly avoid it from now on. I do alright without touching them anyways. There will always be that suspicion that I'm losing because someone else found an edge that way, but I'll still be able to live with it if I know that the league doesn't really support it.

I vote in favor of "officially" discouraging those modifications, even if it can't be enforced. It seems in the spirit of spec racing.
 
Troggy
Apparantly GTRs are the bane of my existence. I can't seem to get it below 1:31. Any tips?

Also, what seems to be a decent time in the Toyo?
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Thank god, I thought it was just me. D1 is close to reaching a 1:27.xxx, if they haven't already.
 
@zer05ive and I have both stated publically many times that we are against adjusting brake balance or any other adjustments to the cars. It's stated in the original post that there should be no differences in the cars being used and the only instructions in the welcome post that goes out via PM is to buy the car and change the oil.

Somewhere along the line (during GT5) someone figured out that they could adjust brake balance and still enter a tuning prohibited room and the word spread. During GT6 someone has figured out that they can add chassis rigidity and get into a tuning prohibited room and the word has spread.

The spirit of the rules in SNAIL is to have all drivers in identically prepared cars. The game does not give us the tools to enforce the spirit of SNAIL. It is up to each individual driver to make a decision if they are going to run under the spirit of the rules or if they are going to do whatever they want to in regards to adjusting these things that are not disallowed by the tuning prohibited setting.

To be clear, if the game allowed us to ban the adjustment of brake balance tuning or adding chassis rigidity, they would be banned without a second thought or any discussion. The only reason these items are even being discussed is because someone along the line made the decision to adjust their cars, thus breaking the rules of SNAIL about tuning, and try to enter a tuning prohibited room.

The official position of SNAIL in regards to tuning brake balance, tuning torque split, and chassis rigidity and anything else that changes the performance characteristics of the car is that it is not allowed as these changes are considered tuning. This isn't a new position as it has been stated many times before and in the original post as is quoted here:

"Because variables in the car are eliminated, spec racing is the truest measure of driver skill! It also produces intense battles for position because all of the cars are equally strong or weak in the same areas of the track. Another benefit of spec racing is that you'll never spend time tuning cars or wondering if someone is truly faster than you or if they just have a better tune."
 
TEX36
If I understand correctly, in GT-Academy the finalists are not allowed to adjust anything. They compete in cars that are exactly the same, in all regards. Why, then, if a SNAIL member is attempting to reach the finals .......... why would they want to compete with anything else?

As a supporting league, behind the drivers who make it to the Finals, why would we want to provide any other basis for our weekly races? My vote: Buy the car, change the oil, and Go ......... Period.

Question: What are the GT-Academy rules about cars and changing tires? Might be a good idea for us to consider those limitations as well...... IF we what to help our drivers reach the finals.
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And when at the finals, you'll be in a SEAT with a WHEEL!
 
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malachi666
Man, the GTR is a whole lotta car! I can't make it around the track without spinning out or going off.
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If I remember correctly, you're using a DS3, right? If so, make sure you're gas isn't just a button, like the default "X". If it is, then your gas is either ON or OFF. All on with this car is not a good thing coming out of nearly every corner. Trying setting it to R1 so you can provide varying amounts of gas.


JLBowler
@zer05ive and I have both stated publically many times that we are against adjusting brake balance or any other adjustments to the cars. It's stated in the original post that there should be no differences in the cars being used and the only instructions in the welcome post that goes out via PM is to buy the car and change the oil.

Somewhere along the line (during GT5) someone figured out that they could adjust brake balance and still enter a tuning prohibited room and the word spread. During GT6 someone has figured out that they can add chassis rigidity and get into a tuning prohibited room and the word has spread.

The spirit of the rules in SNAIL is to have all drivers in identically prepared cars. The game does not give us the tools to enforce the spirit of SNAIL. It is up to each individual driver to make a decision if they are going to run under the spirit of the rules or if they are going to do whatever they want to in regards to adjusting these things that are not disallowed by the tuning prohibited setting.

To be clear, if the game allowed us to ban the adjustment of brake balance tuning or adding chassis rigidity, they would be banned without a second thought or any discussion. The only reason these items are even being discussed is because someone along the line made the decision to adjust their cars, thus breaking the rules of SNAIL about tuning, and try to enter a tuning prohibited room.

The official position of SNAIL in regards to tuning brake balance, tuning torque split, and chassis rigidity and anything else that changes the performance characteristics of the car is that it is not allowed as these changes are considered tuning. This isn't a new position as it has been stated many times before and in the original post as is quoted here:

"Because variables in the car are eliminated, spec racing is the truest measure of driver skill! It also produces intense battles for position because all of the cars are equally strong or weak in the same areas of the track. Another benefit of spec racing is that you'll never spend time tuning cars or wondering if someone is truly faster than you or if they just have a better tune."
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@JLBowler you should add that post to the frequent links post. Very well written.
 
ATLskydiver
Buy the car, change the oil, paint it chrome gold, then go (...well not you guys...that's my color...unofficially...I should add it to the list). ;)

But in all seriousness, I really do wish the brake bias and rigidity things were enforceable too. I run without them 98% of the time, but I have shifted the brake balance in one race before where the car was particularly understeer-y (I believe it was a 4WD on a deep forest). It CAN, and did, make a significant difference.

However, if there was an "official" position from the league frowning on such things, I would gladly avoid it from now on. I do alright without touching them anyways. There will always be that suspicion that I'm losing because someone else found an edge that way, but I'll still be able to live with it if I know that the league doesn't really support it.

I vote in favor of "officially" discouraging those modifications, even if it can't be enforced. It seems in the spirit of spec racing.
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You may use the chrome gold after you have beaten me. K thx bye
 
I've said this before I think, but I'll chime in again, on the brake balance thing. For many months I left it stock. No matter what series I was racing in, what car or which track. At one point I was having trouble with getting a car to turn in and a couple of my mentors convinced me to adjust the BB. I did. I no longer had trouble with putting the car where I wanted it to go while I was driving it the way I wanted to drive it. It isn't about winning. For me, it's about keeping the car on the track, and not having to completely relearn how to brake. I will invariably miss a braking point, or not take into account the conditions under which I will be braking. Having the BB adjusted so I can still maintain steering control under braking when I make such mistakes has allowed me to avoid piling into a car in front of me or just being able to not let a wheel off the track and lose control, which again, would put me in danger of ruining someone else's race.

I don't use it for every car. For instance, that Mazda has been left alone. It does what I tell it to do, when I tell it to do it, without me fiddling with anything. Other cars are not so well balanced and I need some way to help me control their under or over steering tendencies to keep my degree of safety at an acceptable level . If there were a way for us to enforce BB adjustments there would be cars I just wouldn't bother to race.

For the record, I've never done the chassis reinforcement. Chassis restoration, before racing, every Sunday? Absolutely.

I will continue using BB adjustments to suit me, so long as the game allows it to be used, regardless of what anyone else, anywhere else, thinks of it. My honor, which is defined by me keeping my car off others, as best I can, demands it.
 
Dragonwhisky
I've said this before I think, but I'll chime in again, on the brake balance thing. For many months I left it stock. No matter what series I was racing in, what car or which track. At one point I was having trouble with getting a car to turn in and a couple of my mentors convinced me to adjust the BB. I did. I no longer had trouble with putting the car where I wanted it to go while I was driving it the way I wanted to drive it. It isn't about winning. For me, it's about keeping the car on the track, and not having to completely relearn how to brake. I will invariably miss a braking point, or not take into account the conditions under which I will be braking. Having the BB adjusted so I can still maintain steering control under braking when I make such mistakes has allowed me to avoid piling into a car in front of me or just being able to not let a wheel off the track and lose control, which again, would put me in danger of ruining someone else's race.

I don't use it for every car. For instance, that Mazda has been left alone. It does what I tell it to do, when I tell it to do it, without me fiddling with anything. Other cars are not so well balanced and I need some way to help me control their under or over steering tendencies to keep my degree of safety at an acceptable level . If there were a way for us to enforce BB adjustments there would be cars I just wouldn't bother to race.

For the record, I've never done the chassis reinforcement. Chassis restoration, before racing, every Sunday? Absolutely.

I will continue using BB adjustments to suit me, so long as the game allows it to be used, regardless of what anyone else, anywhere else, thinks of it. My honor, which is defined by me keeping my car off others, as best I can, demands it.
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Well the guy behind you racing under the spirit of snail guidelines didn't change his bias , so he's just going to pile into you anyway..lol,, better to have everyone racing on the same platform..
 
KTR5
If I remember correctly, you're using a DS3, right? If so, make sure you're gas isn't just a button, like the default "X". If it is, then your gas is either ON or OFF. All on with this car is not a good thing coming out of nearly every corner. Trying setting it to R1 so you can provide varying amounts of gas.
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I was using the R2 button for gas and the L2 for brake. I did that long ago, but I think part of the problem I have with the GTR is the gear ratio. I only recently started driving standard in this game, as in last night. I might have to switch to automatic when I race the GTR... :(
 
malachi666
Also, one other question. What if you do not have one of the three cars in the three rounds. Can you still participate in the other two rounds?
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Dragonwhisky
It's always possible the programming code is different offline to online, but, even if it isn't, network latency changes how the car(s) react to your inputs. This basically means, practice under conditions you intend to race. If your using your own lobby for practice, the car will be unlikely to behave the same when you race in a lobby not your own. The farther away you are from the host, both geographically and logically, the more pronounced those differences will be.

The same holds true for offline practice. The car will behave differently than online because the conditions are different. The PS3 is not having to process anything network wise so it changes how the car behaves.
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dabneyd
Feel free to not comment if you have nothing to contribute.

The only reason brake balance and chassis reinforcement is allowed is because there is no reasonable way to enforce it. Until PD makes "tuning prohibited" actually mean tuning prohibited, we'll have to work with what we have. If you ask me, an honorable racer would run 5/5 brake balance and not install chassis reinforcement to respect the spirit and mission of the league. That said, I cannot fault anyone for trying to do as much as they can, within the rules, to win.
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malachi666
Man, the GTR is a whole lotta car! I can't make it around the track without spinning out or going off.
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listen to your tires...they give out a very audible squeak before they "go away"
 
malachi666
I was using the R2 button for gas and the L2 for brake. I did that long ago, but I think part of the problem I have with the GTR is the gear ratio. I only recently started driving standard in this game, as in last night. I might have to switch to automatic when I race the GTR... :(
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I actually used the sticks when I was on the DS3. I found that it gave me the most throttle control. The downside is that you can't brake while you're on the throttle, but I still did well enough to make the top 1000 in the US with that setup.
Oh, and the X button actually is dynamic on the ps3. It's just very difficult to push it down 10% when the total throw is only a few millimeters.
 
Try using L2 as the brake and the right stick for throttle AND short shift. Apply throttle gently in a higher gear and utilize the torque on corner exit.
 
malachi666
I was using the R2 button for gas and the L2 for brake. I did that long ago, but I think part of the problem I have with the GTR is the gear ratio. I only recently started driving standard in this game, as in last night. I might have to switch to automatic when I race the GTR... :(
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Right, sorry, I meant R2/L2, not R1.
 
JLBowler
@zer05ive and I have both stated publically many times that we are against adjusting brake balance or any other adjustments to the cars. It's stated in the original post that there should be no differences in the cars being used and the only instructions in the welcome post that goes out via PM is to buy the car and change the oil.

Somewhere along the line (during GT5) someone figured out that they could adjust brake balance and still enter a tuning prohibited room and the word spread. During GT6 someone has figured out that they can add chassis rigidity and get into a tuning prohibited room and the word has spread.

The spirit of the rules in SNAIL is to have all drivers in identically prepared cars. The game does not give us the tools to enforce the spirit of SNAIL. It is up to each individual driver to make a decision if they are going to run under the spirit of the rules or if they are going to do whatever they want to in regards to adjusting these things that are not disallowed by the tuning prohibited setting.

To be clear, if the game allowed us to ban the adjustment of brake balance tuning or adding chassis rigidity, they would be banned without a second thought or any discussion. The only reason these items are even being discussed is because someone along the line made the decision to adjust their cars, thus breaking the rules of SNAIL about tuning, and try to enter a tuning prohibited room.

The official position of SNAIL in regards to tuning brake balance, tuning torque split, and chassis rigidity and anything else that changes the performance characteristics of the car is that it is not allowed as these changes are considered tuning. This isn't a new position as it has been stated many times before and in the original post as is quoted here:

"Because variables in the car are eliminated, spec racing is the truest measure of driver skill! It also produces intense battles for position because all of the cars are equally strong or weak in the same areas of the track. Another benefit of spec racing is that you'll never spend time tuning cars or wondering if someone is truly faster than you or if they just have a better tune."
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I can only dream about this being true in spec miata. =(
 
USERID_77a23
Well the guy behind you racing under the spirit of snail guidelines didn't change his bias , so he's just going to pile into you anyway..lol,, better to have everyone racing on the same platform..
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No, it's not. Better to have everyone racing as clean as they can.

If I'm able to steer my car away from another, because I made a mistake, the only race I'm ruining is my own. That guy behind me that can't steer his car because he made the same mistake I did, will likely have room now to correct his mistake, because I won't be in the racing line when he flies in where I was. If his mistake is greater than mine and he does pile into me, an IR will be filed and the stewards will decide who was the bigger goof.

So far as I'm concerned, control and safety, even in this virtual world, trumps spirit. But then, I came up professionally in a career where not being safe and not taking precautions, in or out of the spirit of whatever policy was published, could get you killed. My sense of safety is probably much more refined than most. In that profession, I couldn't care less what the employers, insurance companies and OSHA thought was the safest way to do something. I was much more interested in making it home alive and with all my parts intact, than they ever could have been. In the case of SNAIL, I'm much more interested in not causing unintentional contact than I am in adhering to what some are calling "the spirit of SNAIL", with which, as a definition, I disagree.
 
Dragonwhisky
No, it's not. Better to have everyone racing as clean as they can.

If I'm able to steer my car away from another, because I made a mistake, the only race I'm ruining is my own. That guy behind me that can't steer his car because he made the same mistake I did, will likely have room now to correct his mistake, because I won't be in the racing line when he flies in where I was. If his mistake is greater than mine and he does pile into me, an IR will be filed and the stewards will decide who was the bigger goof.

So far as I'm concerned, control and safety, even in this virtual world, trumps spirit. But then, I came up professionally in a career where not being safe and not taking precautions, in or out of the spirit of whatever policy was published, could get you killed. My sense of safety is probably much more refined than most. In that profession, I couldn't care less what the employers, insurance companies and OSHA thought was the safest way to do something. I was much more interested in making it home alive and with all my parts intact, than they ever could have been. In the case of SNAIL, I'm much more interested in not causing unintentional contact than I am in adhering to what some are calling "the spirit of SNAIL", with which, as a definition, I disagree with.
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