Open ◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Presented by ButtKicker: Feel What You've Been Missing

Discussion in 'SNAIL Racing League' started by zer05ive, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. Pizzle13

    Pizzle13

    Messages:
    184
    Location:
    Austria
    thats what bothers me the most actually
    as of now 3 people in d1 are just in the way including me
    and i dont want to ruin the night for the "real" d1 drivers
    i dont mind coming in last but it has to be in a reasonable timeframe
    also i agree with what you said about d2 standards
    i dont think a D2 driver should get into D1 because he might win everytime
    it should be measured by how much seconds he wins all the time ... if they win by several seconds every race then ok ... they should get into D1 but if he then is several seconds behind in d1 then obviosuly everybody in d2 should really be in d3 and so on ...

    i cant really comment on other Division competition because this was my first race ever and i got put into D1 straight away, so i dont really know about the other divisions competition
    but it should be measured by D1 downwards, now it felt like it is measured by lowest div to upwards
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
  2. LLOYDZELITE69

    LLOYDZELITE69 Premium

    Messages:
    1,009
    Location:
    Canada
    I have a feeling @Kgffy and myself started this whole thing :p
     
    qwietstorm and Inconspicuous like this.
  3. JLBowler

    JLBowler Premium

    Messages:
    6,746
    Location:
    United States
    Fun fact from data for the day.

    A driver that was promoted this month was used for the example. I took a race night at random from last month and the first night in the new division and compared gap times at the end of the race.

    In one division the total time elapsed between the driver finishing directly ahead of them and directly behind them in all six races was 18 seconds. That's pretty good right? Finishing the race at an average of having a car 1.5 ahead and 1.5 behind in every race. The shortest gap was .1 seconds and the largest was 4.3 seconds.

    In the other division the total time elapsed between the driver ahead and behind was 9.9 seconds. If the first division was good, this one must be better as the racing is closer at the end of the race. The closest gap was .1 seconds and the largest was 3.6.

    Which division would you rather be in?
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
    chatva and JoeW like this.
  4. Skills

    Skills Premium

    Messages:
    1,124
    Location:
    United States
    D5 race 6 and my vote have been entered in the Directors Doc.
     
    Handlebar likes this.
  5. Neovre

    Neovre

    Messages:
    726
    Location:
    United States
    Now you know to be careful what you may start here for future reference lol
     
    LLOYDZELITE69 likes this.
  6. Handlebar

    Handlebar Premium

    Messages:
    3,968
    Location:
    United States
    Just waiting on @qwietstorm to enter D1 when he gets home.
     
    Neovre likes this.
  7. jobyone

    jobyone Premium

    Messages:
    3,558
    Location:
    United States
    So are you saying that the work done to re-align the divisions was wrong? Look every month hard decisions are made to make sure that each division has as many people racing as possible. This month you are in a division you have no chance or winning. Welcome to the club. This is true for people in every division. Over time most people end up in the most suitable division This does not mean they will be able to win just that it is the division that they fit in to best while not allowing them to dominate.

    When you signed up to take part in the league you agreed to the rules and regulations. While discussion is fine you are not looking at this from a league perspective. The decisions made and rule changes are made to improve the league not one individuals enjoyment of the league.
     
    chatva, AJKVail and Rallywagon like this.
  8. LLOYDZELITE69

    LLOYDZELITE69 Premium

    Messages:
    1,009
    Location:
    Canada
    Pffft :) maybe
     
  9. Rallywagon

    Rallywagon Premium

    Messages:
    7,659
    Location:
    United States
    Hi guys! Hows life been? I see that people still love digging up the horse to give it a good beating.
     
    88GTA, Jakedog23, Azure Flare and 4 others like this.
  10. Pizzle13

    Pizzle13

    Messages:
    184
    Location:
    Austria
    i think what he is saying it should be realigned from top to bottom
    now it feels like it is realigned from bottom to top when you consider the apparently "high" jump/gap from d2 to d1
    maybe d2 should really be d3 etc but we cant do it because it is spiraled upwards ... we cant have a D0

    again, i have no idea how the other Division hold up ... as it was my first race ever and i got put into D1 straight away ... but thats just my common sense.
     
  11. Rallywagon

    Rallywagon Premium

    Messages:
    7,659
    Location:
    United States
    Honestly from the bottom up makes more sense. But no, that is not how this is done, nor is it top down. It's more like from the middle out, except not really that either. Each division is considered separately, and together.
     
    Pizzle13 likes this.
  12. JLBowler

    JLBowler Premium

    Messages:
    6,746
    Location:
    United States
    It's not aligned from top to bottom or bottom to top. It's aligned to try and provide consistently full grids across all divisions while still providing competition for all drivers. Nowhere does it say that all drivers will be able to compete for a win. If you don't believe me, ask some of the guys that have been here for a year or two and can count the number of races they have won on one hand. Google a bell curve and when you understand that, you will understand what happens in the top division and the lowest division.
     
    Rockhound18 and BayouSimDrifter like this.
  13. hognhominy

    hognhominy

    Messages:
    633
    Location:
    United States
  14. Pizzle13

    Pizzle13

    Messages:
    184
    Location:
    Austria
    i think the fastest divsion should be reference point for all other divisions
    everything else makes no sense and we get crazy gaps when moving up or down ... either too much or too less
     
  15. Pizzle13

    Pizzle13

    Messages:
    184
    Location:
    Austria
    thanks for clearing that up this way theres always going to be people way out of place
    everything is cleared up now, thanks for informing me
    if i understood this correct, snail dont got enough variety of drivers for "all" their divisions they have

    Edit:
    sorry for double post
     
  16. BayouSimDrifter

    BayouSimDrifter

    Messages:
    2,242
    Location:
    United States
    Seems we have alot of new people complaining about how we been operating here.
     
  17. Skills

    Skills Premium

    Messages:
    1,124
    Location:
    United States
    Everyone pretend you're @JLBowler. If you can do it better, step up and stop *itching.
     
  18. JLBowler

    JLBowler Premium

    Messages:
    6,746
    Location:
    United States
    You've been here for how long? I am now done with you as I refuse to invest more time into trying to explain something to you that you either can't or don't want to understand.
     
    qwietstorm and aliengamer25 like this.
  19. Pizzle13

    Pizzle13

    Messages:
    184
    Location:
    Austria
    i think he does an ok job
    im new and now he cleared me up on why there are sometimes such huge gaps wether you move down or up
    the main goal is to have full grids and secondary goal is competition
    and i was thinking it was the other way around thats why i initially said it should be referenced from top to bottom
    but since i now know how it works, im alright with it ... full grids all the way
     
  20. Skills

    Skills Premium

    Messages:
    1,124
    Location:
    United States
    Full grids indeed!
     
  21. Rallywagon

    Rallywagon Premium

    Messages:
    7,659
    Location:
    United States
    That should have been a picture of a guy beating a dead horse. This matter seems to cycle, next will be tires again, than the penalty system, after that the points system. A few others will pop up, then the cycle will start all over again. The thing is, no one has offered a better solution, which is why the rules and regs barely changed in over a year. I'm not against debate or discussion, however, if you are going to object, do so with something more than just a box of whine to offer. OK. That's my piece, back to the important stuff. How's it going fellas! Been so long since I've raced with you guys. I may have to pull something together and get in on a Sunday night soon.

    edit: Yikes this thread still moves faster than a person can keep up with!
     
  22. jobyone

    jobyone Premium

    Messages:
    3,558
    Location:
    United States
    If you do race just make sure to let us know what you don't like;)
     
    Rallywagon likes this.
  23. Skills

    Skills Premium

    Messages:
    1,124
    Location:
    United States
    Yes, yes you do but please complete the time trial again so we can make sure you're not incorrectly placed in the wrong division.

    edit-Essentially ninja'd by the one who is Joby.

    Since Now Aliens Infiltrated the League
     
  24. IceWarden

    IceWarden

    Messages:
    3,509
    Location:
    United States
    @Inconspicuous
    @Pizzle13

    The above is something I wrote not long ago when this was brought up.

    You don't seem to grasp one simple thought process. These types of things are like the Bell Curve. There are extreme examples at either end of the divisions. If you are the absolute slowest guy in the league, there is nowhere to be demoted to. If you are the absolute fastest, there is no one to challenge you for supremacy.

    The top division probably has 4-5 guys who are the absolute fastest guys. You may be in the top 15 in the league, but not the top 5. This is life. It sounds like you want the top 5 guys to go race by themselves so the rest of you can finally have a chance.

    But the fact remains, the top division has room for the 15 best. Not 4 or 5. If you want everyone to have an equal chance at winning then you need to enter a league that handicaps drivers by adding weight or lowering power. A spec league is not the place for you.

    Spec racing is no excuses, most talented guys win. You are lucky this a league with enough divisions to even it out as much as they do.
     
  25. Rallywagon

    Rallywagon Premium

    Messages:
    7,659
    Location:
    United States
    Yep no problem, no worries about me being faster, I don't think the time I've spent on a boat or lost in Minecraft is going to translate to faster times.
     
  26. JLBowler

    JLBowler Premium

    Messages:
    6,746
    Location:
    United States
    I said I was done but if you want to start putting words in my mouth then we have a problem. Never have I said that full grids were more important than competition. It's a combined top priority when putting the divisions together and that is exactly what I said.

    There is and most likely always will be a bigger gap in skill between the top of D1 and D6 and the bottom of D1 and D6 (or whatever the lowest division is) because that is how it works. There is a smaller number of drivers that are in the elite class and there are a smaller number of drivers at the bottom. This is a remedial lesson on how a bell curve works and that is what we have here. Until you understand that, I can't help you any further.
     
  27. AJKVail

    AJKVail

    Messages:
    233
    Location:
    United States
    Ninjad by Bowler! I'll say it again, Where is APPMADOCK when you need him!
     
    fzappa, jobyone, Handlebar and 2 others like this.
  28. Inconspicuous

    Inconspicuous

    Messages:
    381
    Location:
    United States
    I'm sure there are and I'm not knocking that nor the functionality of the staff as a whole BUT from seeing as how people seem to be reacting to the current situation some sort of change seems reasonable and necessary, otherwise it's just going to continue in the future.

    I'm looking at this from the perspective of even racing throughout the divisions, as S.N.A.I.L. Rightfully* promotes.

    Yes, there's a bit of work involved as far as adding angles to look at when considering a promotion, but if it get's the job done right and relieves tension, for members and staff, there's definitely merit to it for the league itself.

    I'm not in this discussion for myself, by the way. I know how D1 is and if I thought I would be just some back marker I'd ask for a reassignment myself.
     
  29. Handlebar

    Handlebar Premium

    Messages:
    3,968
    Location:
    United States
    Heya @Rallywagon !

    Glad to see you're coming back around - you're not a dead horse, are ya, man?
     
  30. Pizzle13

    Pizzle13

    Messages:
    184
    Location:
    Austria
    i didnt mean to put words in your mouth
    probably just understood your previous comment wrong:
    "It's not aligned from top to bottom or bottom to top. It's aligned to try and provide consistently full grids across all divisions while still providing competition for all drivers."

    i assumed the full grid is a top priority since you mentioned it first with a "try" and then said "while" providing competition
    so i said to myself ok, full grid first, and then we see about the drivers thats how i took it

    my bad jlbowler
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014