- 4,229
- cambridge
- Birdy1084
◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Currently Recruiting for GT7 - JOIN TODAY!!Open
- Thread starter zer05ive
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- 4,229
- cambridge
- Birdy1084
JLBowler
Premium
- 7,942
- California
- JLBowler
Not allowed but unenforceable is a little bit different than expressly allowed. It's a moral question if a driver wants to adjust the brake balance and violate the letter and spirit of the no tuning rule.
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- 2,003
- New York
- OMG_mang
Is it immoral then to add body rigidity too? It's unforceable but could be seen as taking advantage of a unidentifiable in game modification. Just asking to secure my own conscience around using it or not.
ps : Not to be confused with "restoring rigidity"
ps : Not to be confused with "restoring rigidity"
- 4,229
- cambridge
- Birdy1084
You seem to have a thing with enforcement huh? Like we are children who need to be kept on short leashes. I asked, I got told it's was "frowned" upon but not illegal because "we can't do anything about it" never told different till now! The spirit of spec racing is different depending on the series, I have looked at quite a few real world spec racing series for guide lines for events I have held, and stock is never stock with in them. So please clarify the "rules" of snail and keep your condescension to yourself!
Edit: Actually I think condescension is the wrong word I think it should be holier then thou attitude
JLBowler
Premium
- 7,942
- California
- JLBowler
Spec Racing
SNAIL was the first GTPlanet league to prohibit tuning in all of our races. This combined with the fact that we race in the same cars produces a type of racing called "spec" racing. Spec racing ensures that success is determined solely by driving skill and not by differences in car power, gearing, suspension, weight, or aerodynamics. Because variables in the car are eliminated, spec racing is the truest measure of driver skill! It also produces intense battles for position because all of the cars are equally strong or weak in the same areas of the track. Another benefit of spec racing is that you'll never spend time tuning cars or wondering if someone is truly faster than you or if they just have a better tune.
That is taken right from the first post and has read this way for a long time. All cars are to be identical when it comes to performance. If you're doing anything to change your car's performance then you are in violation of the rules of SNAIL.
There is no way to penalize for an infraction that can not be detected so it is left up to the driver and their integrity to not change settings that SNAIL can't police.
SNAIL was the first GTPlanet league to prohibit tuning in all of our races. This combined with the fact that we race in the same cars produces a type of racing called "spec" racing. Spec racing ensures that success is determined solely by driving skill and not by differences in car power, gearing, suspension, weight, or aerodynamics. Because variables in the car are eliminated, spec racing is the truest measure of driver skill! It also produces intense battles for position because all of the cars are equally strong or weak in the same areas of the track. Another benefit of spec racing is that you'll never spend time tuning cars or wondering if someone is truly faster than you or if they just have a better tune.
That is taken right from the first post and has read this way for a long time. All cars are to be identical when it comes to performance. If you're doing anything to change your car's performance then you are in violation of the rules of SNAIL.
There is no way to penalize for an infraction that can not be detected so it is left up to the driver and their integrity to not change settings that SNAIL can't police.
- 4,157
- Virginia
- Wolfsatz
Same thing..... I think that adding that note on the rules would clarify it so it is in black and white.
- 4,146
- Fort Worth/Texas
- RacingChamp30
This is what i have always loved about SNAIL since i joined 2 years ago. We race all the same cars, same specs, same tires like @JLBowler said it is up to the driver how they do well or not on the track because everyone's car is equal. Just find this series very enjoyable to race in and all the different series that exist in SNAIL. 👍
- 4,566
- Ohio
- Lessenjr
I respectfully disagree. I would like to point out that a "performance advantage" does not necessarily stop at something that makes or allows the car and driver to be faster within any one lap. If an alteration is made that makes the car easier to drive for a particular drivers' natural abilities, then that parlays into greater consistency; which is a lower average laptime... which was earned via tuning. To me that is just as much as a performance advantage as 3 extra HP or a bit more camber. Just my 2cents.
- 4,229
- cambridge
- Birdy1084
You seem to be missing the POINT the problem isn't what is written it's what isn't written. And how individuals are interpreting it. You seem to think everyone is going to read it the same way you do especially since I know that with in SNAIL from people with a lot more time under there belt then I have are sharing conflicting interpretation of that exact script! Which is why I asked about the rims way back when and still run what ever rims I think look best on the car not for how they effect the car.
I started playing with my brake balance because a snail who was helping me with my lines told me to adjust them. Maybe there should be a part some in the OLR about specific adjustments that can be made that shouldn't!
So I'll say it again. Are you implying that SNAIL's would knowingly cheat just to win in the karts!
- 4,157
- Virginia
- Wolfsatz
I second that motion.
In other racing news.
This is a lovelyhttp://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/mercedes-amg-gt3-racer-test-2015-05-24 beast!
- 4,566
- Ohio
- Lessenjr
@Die_Birdy_Die
Dude! People cheat! That's a part of life man. I'm not calling anybody out here, but that's just the way the world is. People do cheat. You really just have to accept that some people will use frowned upon tactics to get what they want. SNAIL is a small part of the "real world". I don't expect that anything is different within this group as there would be in any other.
Dude! People cheat! That's a part of life man. I'm not calling anybody out here, but that's just the way the world is. People do cheat. You really just have to accept that some people will use frowned upon tactics to get what they want. SNAIL is a small part of the "real world". I don't expect that anything is different within this group as there would be in any other.
- 4,229
- cambridge
- Birdy1084
- 4,229
- cambridge
- Birdy1084
I refuse to believe that in a group such as this where it's about the competition and should be about having fun would purposefully adjust known illegal stuff just to win a few races! Besides I run my practice rooms without the settings on and have never had a snail come in and start adjusting there there stuff just to dominate the track!
- 1,435
- Mission, British Columbia
- BC_BOYZZ
The whole brake bias thing is a rather intersting debate. Realistically speaking, two cars will never ever be an exact copy of one another, no matter how precise the manufacture is when making the car. One cars engine could be making a fraction more horsepower than the one that rolled off the production line right after it. The differentiation between one car from another is amplified in competition, particularly SPEC miata and SPEC racer ford. Both classes are deemed 'Spec' by the largest car club on the continent, the SCCA. Drivers in this category can fiddle with suspension set up, brake bias, weight distribution, and various other technicalities, yet they are still a spec class. Even though the cars are miles apart in how they're set up, they still have the same major components. The reason they're a spec class is because each driver is able to modify their car the same way if they choose to. The same thing applies here; If there isn't a rule against it, then you better believe a driver is going to capitalize on something that could potentially make them faster. No need to get angry and shun people for adjusting brakes or resoring chassis rigidity if you can do the same thing within the rules, but choose not to instead. It seems we are chasing our tails here... Just drive the friggen kart!
- 618
- South Carolina
- ConnorWolf
In case anyone was wondering, 1:08s are still very possible with the one-make kart that has 49hp instead of 51 (after rebuild).
- 4,229
- cambridge
- Birdy1084
lol I'm still in the 1:11s
JLBowler
Premium
- 7,942
- California
- JLBowler
Tuning is not allowed but can't be enforced in certain areas so you end up with it being "frowned upon" and that's the best SNAIL can do with the tools we have.
/The rest of this post is from JLBowler the driver and not JLBowler the SNAIL admin/
Those with integrity and respect for the rules of SNAIL will not tune their cars and everyone else will continue to do so and there isn't a thing that SNAIL can do about it (thanks PD for screwing up once again).
@Die_Birdy_Die to answer your question if I think that people would cheat to win. I know there are driver's out there doing it already so why would anything change all of a sudden.
/The rest of this post is from JLBowler the driver and not JLBowler the SNAIL admin/
Those with integrity and respect for the rules of SNAIL will not tune their cars and everyone else will continue to do so and there isn't a thing that SNAIL can do about it (thanks PD for screwing up once again).
@Die_Birdy_Die to answer your question if I think that people would cheat to win. I know there are driver's out there doing it already so why would anything change all of a sudden.
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- 4,229
- cambridge
- Birdy1084
That is a very narrow minded view of how people are interpreting the rules of SNAIL. Yes people are cutting corners or trying to stay on the edge of legal and missing depending on your view of things. Which is where the OLR comes into play!
As for outright cheating by tuning the tranny or suspension just because the setting "allow" it I still and will always refuse to believe!
- 4,229
- cambridge
- Birdy1084
JLBowler
Premium
- 7,942
- California
- JLBowler
If you refuse to believe that someone would change a setting that is not allowed to be changed by SNAIL but is allowed to be changed in the game and not tracked then you are either very naive or delusional. IT'S ALREADY BEING DONE ON A WEEKLY BASIS BY MANY DRIVERS AND YOU'RE ONE OF THEM BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION. Yes, I'm shouting to make a point and draw attention to the very obvious point that you have missed from the very beginning.
- 1,724
- Saginaw, MI
- Gr8_Lakes
For the record, I'm glad this brake bias conversation took place. I have a better understanding now of what's expected of me as a SNAIL participant. My brake bias will never be adjusted. Should my body rigidity become weakened, I'll buy a new vehicle.
I think Birdie made some valid points concerning the conscience of our members. Most (and I understand it will never be all) members are happy to follow the rules if they are just clearly spelled out, regardless of their enforceability. A win by means of rule infraction would not be satisfying to me; I check my ego at the door.
The past discussions I've had on this issue in practice rooms were very different in regards to rule interpretation. It seemed to me that other members found brake bias to be the one thing we're allowed to adjust. Now, it's clear to me that it is not allowed, and adjusting brake bias is stepping outside the boundaries set forth by the administration.
I think Birdie made some valid points concerning the conscience of our members. Most (and I understand it will never be all) members are happy to follow the rules if they are just clearly spelled out, regardless of their enforceability. A win by means of rule infraction would not be satisfying to me; I check my ego at the door.
The past discussions I've had on this issue in practice rooms were very different in regards to rule interpretation. It seemed to me that other members found brake bias to be the one thing we're allowed to adjust. Now, it's clear to me that it is not allowed, and adjusting brake bias is stepping outside the boundaries set forth by the administration.
- 58
- Toronto
- x_NoSkill2Kill_x
When will i know what division I'll be at?
- 4,229
- cambridge
- Birdy1084
YOUR ARROGANT AND TO ASSUME I"M CHEATING BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T SPELL OUT THE RULES ABOUT BRAKE BIAS IN THE OLR EVEN AFTER BEING ASKED IS ON YOU NOT ME! FIX THE OLR DON"T YELL AT ME BECAUSE YOU MESSED SOMETHING UP! Just because you want to yell!
See it's this simple to fix the OLR
Brake bias must remain stock 5/5 It is illegal to adjust although unenforceable
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JLBowler
Premium
- 7,942
- California
- JLBowler
I could respond, actually I did respond and deleted it, but nothing good would come from it. I should have known better to even respond in the first place. Should have made the original announcement and walked away from it.
- 4,229
- cambridge
- Birdy1084
- 3,575
- Vancouver, BC
- Falango
If you can win races with touching the brake bias and/or body rigidity, be happy about it. Whether other people will believe you or not shouldn't matter. What do we ultimately win at the end of the race, night or season? Who are we trying to prove? I'm in it for great racing and proving to myself what I'm capable of. I'll never adjust brake bias or body rigidity so I can prove to myself I can win without those aids. If someone beats me using them, oh well. To me, they are the race winner with an asterisk beside their name. Just my 2 non existant Canadian pennies 
