Open ◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Presented by ButtKicker: Feel What You've Been Missing

Discussion in 'SNAIL Racing League' started by zer05ive, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. NoSkill2Kill

    NoSkill2Kill

    Messages:
    58
    Location:
    Canada
    According to the technical information provided by PD, changing break balance bias is only necessary if ballast weight is added and it's balance altered. In a stock spec changing it is not necessary.
     
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  2. Ricky Wilson

    Ricky Wilson

    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    United States
    an old combo like with the RX7 at Tsukuba changing brake bias will help. its all about trail braking there and getting the car to rotate while braking. making ur front brakes less pronounced will cause less understeer going into turns.... adding more brake to the rear will make your car rotate easier in light braking, sharp turns. just my 2 cents. changing brake bias isnt the Snail way.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
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  3. Lessen

    Lessen

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    4,551
    Location:
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    Great pic Connor. Do you think you could explain a little more about what ackermann is and and effects on handling? I'm familiar from my experience in r/c, but maybe you have more book knowledge? I know there are a number of SNAILS that appreciate this kinda stuff even though we don't do anything with it. Thanks!
     
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  4. ConnorWolf

    ConnorWolf

    Messages:
    594
    Location:
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    Well, to understand what ackerman is, is fairly simple, but to really understand what ackerman does in a meaningful way there's a lot of other things you should understand first.

    First you have to understand how tires work in terms of load and slip angle and how that turns into 'grip' or cornering force. If you don't already know, this is a good video for understanding it
    (an easy rule of thumb is no more than 6 degrees of slip angle, or in GT6, if the tires are smoking you probably pushed it slightly too far) It almost feels like drifting in some cars, depending on the setup and other things, but there should be no smoke.

    Then understanding what ackerman is:


    Well, I think it won't let me embed more than two videos per post so I'll just explain ackerman in the simplest way I can. I think we all know that if you turn around a tight corner, the inside wheel takes a shorter path than the outside wheel, but it also takes a tighter arc. This means that in order to steer around a turn without scrub, the inside wheel needs to turn more than the outside. That is ackerman steering.

    [​IMG]

    And this video does a really good job of explaning why you should care about ackerman angles, and what they do. (better than I would do in text without boring everyone to death)

     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
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  5. Die_Birdy_Die

    Die_Birdy_Die

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    Location:
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    Which is why I ask for clairification!
    I don't consider myself a cheater either Tom although what I was doing was wrong. With out proper knowledge of how or what is and isn't considered illegal, to say i'm a cheater after asking the governing body what they expected months ago, is ignorant on their part. now that I know what is illegal I won't do it again. And hopefully through our discussion today other now know too. The OLR will hopefully be changed to reflect that discussion to make it clear to new drivers entering snail!
    IMO we should be able to open private lounges within snail put down whether or not it's a tuning room in the comments and know that the people with in snail would respect that room and SNAIL and show up accordingly. I am involved in a tuning league also and would never dream of using there cars within snail whether the room was"set up" to keep out tuned or not!

    GTA isn't governed by snail. Yes I do agree that aspects of GTA are so factitious they land on the absurd (using the Ebrake during a fast lap comes to mind) but that is governed by GT and no reflection upon snail itself. I do believe that all it should take is an "honor system" and the proper clear wording within the OLR to deter people from racing out side the confines of that system.

    I have no ill feelings toward @JLBowler for the "discussion" we had or where it may have been perceived to have gone. The wording of "frowned upon" was my point. I don't care if they scowl at me or give me dirty looks hell talk bad about me to your friends I could care less. Now tell that me it's illegal but not enforceable that's totally different I don't come here to cheat there's a million other rooms out there to do that crap in. I come here to race under the same rules and guidelines as everyone else! If those rules aren't clear that's the bodies fault! Hopefully It will be cleared up. As many people pointed out it wasn't made clear to them as it was stated "do what you want cause we can't control it"! Now that it has been stated watch how many people stop adjusting the break bias, or adding the body rigidity or even stop up-sizing their rims (although that hasn't been stated clearly hopefully it will bew cleared up)

    Lol discussions happen and some times they turn into arguments (usually centered around me and my nosy make a clear and valid point attitude). In my view even though it became a shouting match important issues came to light and will hopefully be addressed in the near future! It's all in good fun.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
  6. Die_Birdy_Die

    Die_Birdy_Die

    Messages:
    4,231
    Location:
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    :sly:
    Couldn't you have gotten some of those cool videos from back in the 50 or 60s like @TEX36 did!:sly:
     
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  7. Dragonwhisky

    Dragonwhisky Premium

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    5,824
    Location:
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    [​IMG]
    Race Date - Sun Apr 19 2015
    Penalty Rate 70%
    Banner by GamingPete


    Below are the results of the 10 incidents the stewards reviewed.

    Division 4 - 2 incident on file
    kickenit4evr
    • Round 1 - Race 2 - Level 2 - 8 points doubled to 16 for probation violation. Reduced back to 8 for on track concession. 4 weeks probation remain.

    Division 6 - 3 incidents on file
    singlepaddy
    • Round 1 - Race 1 - Level 1 - 2 points doubled to 4 for probation violation. 3 weeks probation remain.
    Tangled_Up
    • Round 3 - Race 1 - Level 3 - 9 points doubled to 18 for probation violation. Reduced back to 9 for self report. 4 weeks probation remain.

    Division 7 - 4 incidents on file
    syntorz
    • Round 3 - Race 2 - Level 2 - 5 points doubled to 10 for probation violation. 4 weeks probation remain.
    Warlooker
    • Round 1 - Race 1 - Level 1 - 3 points.
    • Round 3 - Race 2 - Level 3 - 12 points.
    • 15 points total and 4 weeks probation.

    Division 8 - 1 incident on file
    sedia3
    • Round 3 - Race 1 - Level 5 - 18 points doubled to 36 for probation violation. Reduced back to 18 points for on track concession. 6 weeks probation remain.

    These results can be viewed on the SNAIL Steward Review Sheet.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    Thanks to Handlebar-Man, tezgm99 and vsfit for their reviews this week.
    Don't forget to claim your $hells for completing reviews.
    :cheers:

    * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    These changes affect the final standings.
    Full final results can be found here. @zer05ive & @JLBowler, these adjustments have been made in SNAIL Sunday Scoring and SNAIL Data sheets.
    ***If you were penalized and would like further explanation regarding the incident, PM your Division Steward and they will let you know what the stewards saw and our opinions on it.***

    *****************************************************
    2 drivers cleared probation this week. Well done! :cheers:
    *****************************************************​




    [​IMG]
    Here are the official results from our league night on April 19, 2015

    Click here for this season's points standings and click a tab at the bottom for more detail.

    Click here if the data linked above has already been archived and you would like to view it.


    Division 1
    1. Adventuruss ------- voted to eliminate Round 2 - 96 (55.98 for prize purposes only)
    2. CRG_Racer24 ------- voted to eliminate Round 3
    3. beatin_the_odds --- voted to eliminate Round 3
    4. msgt-sd ----------- voted to eliminate Round 1
    5. SLC_VR6_V-Dub ----- voted to eliminate Round 1
    6. vovik05 ----------- did not submit a vote
    Division 2
    1. gtr3123 ----------- voted to eliminate Round 2 - 85.1 (88.40 for prize purposes only)
    2. ConnorWolf -------- voted to eliminate Round 3
    3. GTP_Falango ------- voted to eliminate Round 3
    4. ONESPACE ---------- voted to eliminate Round 2
    5. MSgtGunny --------- voted to eliminate Round 2
    6. Gouletzky --------- voted to eliminate Round 3
    7. MikeGrove --------- voted to eliminate Round 2
    8. Baby_Stig_ -------- voted to eliminate Round 1
    9. turnupdaheat ------ voted to eliminate Round 3
    10. gulin24 ----------- did not submit a vote
    Division 3
    1. SCHMEDRACER ------- voted to eliminate Round 2 - 97 (95.45 for prize purposes only)
    2. Rednose58 --------- voted to eliminate Round 2
    3. CAPECOD104 -------- voted to eliminate Round 3
    4. iceburgeson ------- voted to eliminate Round 3
    5. Wolfsatz ---------- voted to eliminate Round 2
    6. nmcp1 ------------- voted to eliminate Round 2
    7. Grandpas_Money ---- voted to eliminate Round 3
    8. GOTDIRT410sp ------ voted to eliminate Round 3
    9. Flesxruoyxllik --- voted to eliminate Round 3
    Division 4
    1. aLmk_69 ----------- voted to eliminate Round 2 - 94 (83.94 for prize purposes only)
    2. II-NOVA-II -------- voted to eliminate Round 2
    3. WIDEeyedDRIVER ---- voted to eliminate Round 3
    4. USERID_77a23 ------ voted to eliminate Round 3
    5. AMAMachinist ------ voted to eliminate Round 1
    6. jlbowler ---------- voted to eliminate Round 1
    7. QEDXY ------------- voted to eliminate Round 3
    8. Raw10_2u ---------- voted to eliminate Round 1
    9. kickenit4evr ------ did not submit a vote
    Division 5
    1. nobbymcnobberson -- did not submit a vote - 100 (98.41 for Prize B)
    2. TomMang_68 -------- voted to eliminate Round 3
    3. THRASH_46 --------- voted to eliminate Round 2
    4. Die_Birdy_Die ----- voted to eliminate Round 3
    5. pkenuelo ---------- voted to eliminate Round 2
    6. Kiba_Stryker ------ voted to eliminate Round 1
    7. TEX-36 ------------ voted to eliminate Round 3
    8. Driftin_Assassin -- voted to eliminate Round 3
    9. SGTSerb ----------- did not submit a vote
    10. chatva ------------ did not submit a vote
    Division 6
    1. CallmeMike41 ------ voted to eliminate Round 1 - 79 (84.94 for prize purposes only)
    2. ExoSphere64 ------- voted to eliminate Round 1
    3. canuckleheadII ---- voted to eliminate Round 1
    4. TBongX ------------ voted to eliminate Round 1
    5. singlepaddy ------- voted to eliminate Round 2
    6. lobbanmike -------- voted to eliminate Round 1
    7. RacingChamp30 ----- voted to eliminate Round 1
    8. Tangled_Up -------- voted to eliminate Round 1
    9. oharagbr19 -------- voted to eliminate Round 1
    10. DesertPenguin09 --- voted to eliminate Round 2
    Division 7
    1. McTrucker000 ------ voted to eliminate Round 3 - 91 (96.18 for Prize C)
    2. ShrumpRacer86 ----- voted to eliminate Round 3
    3. HandlebarMustash -- voted to eliminate Round 2
    4. JamCar0ne --------- voted to eliminate Round 2
    5. blueninjacivic ---- voted to eliminate Round 3
    6. Engmatic1 --------- voted to eliminate Round 3
    7. syntorz ----------- voted to eliminate Round 2
    8. D6uzmanG ---------- voted to eliminate Round 3
    9. Warlooker --------- voted to eliminate Round 3
    10. vsfit ------------- did not submit a vote
    11. Evermondy --------- did not submit a vote
    Division 8
    1. cmbeal317 --------- voted to eliminate Round 3 - 84 (116.34 for Prize A)
    2. edwin1017 --------- voted to eliminate Round 2
    3. Hellbringer2m6 ---- voted to eliminate Round 1
    4. BustedFoSho ------- voted to eliminate Round 2
    5. flip_jj ----------- voted to eliminate Round 2
    6. o8jedi ------------ voted to eliminate Round 3
    7. sinna123sinna123 -- voted to eliminate Round 2
    8. pubason ----------- voted to eliminate Round 3
    9. D1_driver_83 ------ voted to eliminate Round 2
    10. ronwill73 --------- voted to eliminate Round 1
    11. Polygrizz --------- voted to eliminate Round 1
    12. sedia3 ------------ voted to eliminate Round 3
    13. DCschWinn --------- voted to eliminate Round 2
     
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  8. redsoxboy80

    redsoxboy80

    Messages:
    192
    Location:
    United States
    Wasn't there a series run recently that enforced all its participants to run a certain brake bias? Wasn't that a SNAIL series too? I know I'm a young man and my memory is really good, but I can't quite remember for sure ................ Anyway ...........

    I found these videos really helpful when I started karting. You can see the rest of his karting videos too by going to his Vimeo page. This one is fairly basic but the rest go into a bit more detail.

    <iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/6621418?color=f58020&title=0&byline=0&portrait=0" width="500" height="275" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> <p><a href="">Steering Basics</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/kracer">K-Racer</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

    I'm not an engineer and I don't want to be one. I just wanted to know how I could use all of the settings to increase the performance of the kart, Ackerman included. It is easy to see how Ackerman works with the rest of the front settings though. There are different ways of getting the inside-tire of the kart to unload and Ackerman is just one of them. I personally used more Ackerman if I wanted more rotation in tighter turns. Sometimes it helped, sometimes it didn't. The only thing it consistently did was create heavier steering after the first few degrees of steering movement.
     
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  9. Die_Birdy_Die

    Die_Birdy_Die

    Messages:
    4,231
    Location:
    Canada
    Yes you had to take a photo of your setting on track and send them to the race director directly after the race finished if you went into your settings after the race you got disqualified!
     
  10. DGuzmanG

    DGuzmanG

    Messages:
    95
    Location:
    Colombia
    Yes, you just have to create the post in a regular way, but then you select the pictures you wanna hide in the spoiler, and with them selected use the option "Insert" and spoiler...

    Look at my last (and only so far photo-post) here

    Edit:

    (Except those pics don't seem to be working anymore)... I used IMGUR.

    Does anybody know of a good image hosting service... that is not Flickr!?
     
  11. Gouletzky

    Gouletzky

    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Canada
    Thanks ill do this next time and if i can't figure it out.. ill re ask you.
     
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  12. Die_Birdy_Die

    Die_Birdy_Die

    Messages:
    4,231
    Location:
    Canada
    yeah I looked into it and it will make hiding all those photos so much simpler then putting a link to another site! I just never thought to do it!
     
  13. ONESPACE

    ONESPACE

    Messages:
    763
    Location:
    United States
    I'm saying this in a very respectful manner Birdy , I may be wrong but don't think so. If anyone IMPROVES body rigidity then it will not let you enter a tuning prohibited race. Only if you RESTORE body rigidity, it will let you still on the track. All the body mounts ( urethane bushing and such get worn out about after 300 miles or so.
     
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  14. DesertPenguin09

    DesertPenguin09 (Banned)

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    7,398
    Location:
    United States
    imgur
     
  15. Die_Birdy_Die

    Die_Birdy_Die

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    4,231
    Location:
    Canada
    Yeah it lets you enter I use to do it to every car till I got to silverstone in the GTR and it handled much better without it. It made the gtr to stiff!

    Oh and I bought all the gtrs to see which one I preferred 1 I put it on then bought it again with out it. Just so you know i'm not trying to BS you!
     
    ONESPACE likes this.
  16. DGuzmanG

    DGuzmanG

    Messages:
    95
    Location:
    Colombia
    But I used imgur and look at that post, all the images are off!

    @Gouletzky where did you uploaded them? Right here on GTP as attachments?
     
  17. ONESPACE

    ONESPACE

    Messages:
    763
    Location:
    United States
    Adjusting brake balances only really has an effect if ABS is turned off. Which in this league ABS is allowed to be set at 1.
     
  18. ONESPACE

    ONESPACE

    Messages:
    763
    Location:
    United States
    I tried it awhile back when GT6 first game out and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't let me enter, maybe they changed it in an update. I won't do it in a league race. But I'm going to try it again just to see. Really just want to make sure your not BS'n me. JK,LOL.
     
    Die_Birdy_Die likes this.
  19. ConnorWolf

    ConnorWolf

    Messages:
    594
    Location:
    United States
    Unless the car doesn't use all of it's available grip to stop, like some...(Zonda) or like Ricky was saying, to reduce scrub on the front during trail braking.

    But in any case 5/5 works just fine for me.
     
    ONESPACE likes this.
  20. redsoxboy80

    redsoxboy80

    Messages:
    192
    Location:
    United States
    Thanks for helping my memory there! Now I'm having a hard time remembering who organized that whole deal......
     
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  21. Falango

    Falango

    Messages:
    3,571
    Location:
    Canada
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but has anyone posted any pictures of the VW @ HSR? Need some pronto!
     
  22. gotdirt410sp

    gotdirt410sp (Banned)

    Messages:
    239
    Just got done watching the interview on sim pit on youtube with andy tudor of pc cars. At the end of the hour long interview he ask him if there where anything else that we don't now about. Then they started talking about wheels and faniteck getting supported and he said there is more things that will be released that people will be really thankful for I think it will Logitech support. and they have Logitech now at the bottom on the home page Logitech g but still lol praying.

    THEN I WLL PRE ORDER and the interview was a day ago
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
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  23. CoachMK21

    CoachMK21

    Messages:
    2,858
    Location:
    United States
    Yes, yes. @redsoxboy80 that is your league. It's a good idea. Doing that for 60, 70, 80+ drivers wouldn't been much fun.
     
  24. turnupdaheat

    turnupdaheat

    Messages:
    1,821
    Location:
    Ireland
    Even with ABS set at 1 adjusting brake balance can and does make a difference.

    I believe, for the sake of clarity, it would be a good idea to clearly define a rule that brake balance adjustment and chassis improvement are not allowed in SNAIL. The fact these cannot be policed is irrelevant. If the rules are clearly visible then someone will have to make a conscious decision to ignore them which is different to making the adjustments because he/she is unaware that they are not allowed. The term "frowned upon" is too ambiguous.

    When I first joined SNAIL particularly I was very keen to pick up any advice going during the practice sessions and the 2 main things that came up all the time were shift points and brake balance. The word was that because brake balance couldn't be policed it was allowed and I took that as gospel and adjusted the balance accordingly. As it happened, as my experience grew I found I preferred to leave it at the default 5/5 and, through practice, adjust my brake modulation accordingly and that's how I will keep approaching it.

    We have new people joining all the time and they won't necessarily have seen the couple of discussions/arguments that have appeared in this thread over time so why not make it abundantly clear to everyone that b/b is to remain default? I hear the question being asked by new people every now and again and there are often mixed responses with some people advising that it is ok because it cannot be policed and others saying it's frowned upon. It would be simpler to be able to reply that it is official SNAIL policy that b/b remain default (and ditto to chassis improvement).
     
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  25. redsoxboy80

    redsoxboy80

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    192
    Location:
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    Haha taking me way too seriously there. I'm just having fun and trying to lighten the mood. Dry humor doesn't work too well on the interweb I guess. So keep that in mind when reading my next paragraph.

    Man that @redsoxboy80 guy is brilliant! He should be given like lots of money for having such a great idea.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
  26. Raw10_2u

    Raw10_2u

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    1,255
    Location:
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    I have to weigh in on this.I know that we as S.N.A.I.L.S.have rules governing the tuning of the vehicles in which we race.I had not heard that we could not adjust the brake bias,and generally have set my bias high(9-9) in game.I have not adjusted my bias in any of the races in which we compete,I am sure that it is obvious to those who have raced or practiced with me,that I start braking way ahead of other cars because I am so used to having more braking power.I was practicing the Kart the other night and came to the conclusion that adjusting the bias really helped in my cornering,it made me a lot more confident in my Kart,which in turn,I showed better lap times and made me less dangerous to others on the track,(better stability).In all forms of racing ,there is a governing body who sets parameters for the cars on the track to create as equal a playing field as possible.As far as I know,they do not govern the use of bias in the vehicles because it is not considered to be "Tuning outside the Parameters of the given set of regulations".I believe that this is because it is truly a driver preference so long as all other parts of the braking i.e,disk size,calipers,lines,shoes or pads etc. are equal.Now,in my experience it can change the handling characteristics of the car significantly.A setting of 5-5 might feel good to you,but may affect me in a negative way and vise-versa.We can't police it,except to say that we depend upon the Honor system.I believe our drivers are honorable gentlemen and women,and if we said "leave the bias at the setting in which it was delivered"then we all would honor that.
     
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  27. gotdirt410sp

    gotdirt410sp (Banned)

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    239
    Yeah and that comes from the top guys in snail by the way
     
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  28. aLmk

    aLmk

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    289
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    :clapping: :tup::cheers:
     
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  29. Raw10_2u

    Raw10_2u

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    1,255
    Location:
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    I'm with @Die_Birdy_Die ,as the kart sits,I could just make it in 1:10!
     
  30. JLBowler

    JLBowler Premium

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    Location:
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    Clarification on all things having to do with cars is coming soon. There are some details that need to be addressed and some things that need to be cleaned up and then you will all see a new section in the OLR just for cars.
     
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