Leaf Thread: 2016 Model Adds Bigger Battery, 107 Mile Range

[YSSMAN]

The auto companies believe that the EV craze is coming, and its a rush to get their products in as soon as possible. The next entry in the EV craze is the Nissan Leaf (links to Autoblog), a C-segment hatch that is supposed to be an EV for the everyman.

What do you need to know?

• This is Nissan's first major foray into the EV market, and hope to have the car available in the US by 2012
• It will be powered by a 107 BHP electric motor
• It should be able to go 100+ miles on a single charge
• "Normal" charge times are roughly eight hours, but "speed" charges can reach up to 80% in 30 minutes, or roughly 31 miles in just 10
• The car will slot between the Versa and Sentra in size
• Pricing is yet to be announced, but expect a "typical" warranty, and an MSRP near a mid-line Altima sedan

Does it make me forget about the Volt and the Tesla Model S? Not so much. But does it make for an interesting competitor? Definitely. Guessing about $25-27K for a final price, and its a square deal, when operating costs would be well-under $100 a month. Methinks that now that this shot has been fired across the bow, its only a matter of time before Honda and Toyota introduce their C-segment EVs... Much less, something from Ford and GM.

 

[McLaren]

I apologize, but the only thing I'm finding interesting & pleasant to look at in these cars are the interiors. I don't know why the Japanese have to make all their eco-cars look so ugly & different, though.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I don't know why the Japanese have to make all their eco-cars look so ugly & different, though.

Lately everything has been coming out ugly from Japan, though I do like the new Insight.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Add an SR20VET + 6-speed transaxle with a proper limited slip, a decent suspension setup and a redone fascia, side skirts and rear valence... And you have something to say BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE to a lot of stuff and knock down epic highway fuel economy thanks to the aerodynamics.

But it wouldn't happen and actually makes zero sense. ANOTHER 280hp FWD hatch. Yeah... Never mind :3

 

[homeforsummer]

I apologize, but the only thing I'm finding interesting & pleasant to look at in these cars are the interiors. I don't know why the Japanese have to make all their eco-cars look so ugly & different, though.

This time I actually agree with this sentiment. Normally I'll be first in line to defend the more "quirky" Japanese stuff, but no... you're right, this one is ugly. I wonder what ever happened to the art of making cars that were actually pretty?

It doesn't even look like it's been designed with aerodynamics in mind unlike the usual eco cars.

As you say though, the interior is pretty cool.

 

[Moglet]

The interior rules, but the only time I can see this type of car being really useful is if you live and work in a city and don't need to travel far often. In which case, public transport is a better bet.

The interior is very nice though.

 

[Jondot]

I love how as little as 5 years ago, everyone thought EVs were ridiculous ideas. 'Oh they're not viable' the manufacturers cried.

When Ford released the TH!NK, everyone laughed. When GM released the EV1, only 800 Californians actually went and leased one. So why now, here in 2009, is everyone climbing hand over foot to get in on the EV action?

 

[Jim Prower]

$4.00 A gallon Gas.

But soon, it'll be $4.00 a kw/H for EV owners.

 

[Jondot]

$4.00 A gallon Gas.

But soon, it'll be $4.00 a kw/H for EV owners.

True, but then petrol was still considered to be expensive back in 2004. Hell it was comparatively expensive in 2001.

I just find it amusing that the majority of manufacturers have blindly dismissed the idea of electric vehicles for years, and now there's a sudden rush for everyone to get one built - as though the idea of being 'green' in 2004 was just plain silly.

 

[Northstar]

Why do all the "green" cars have to look so ugly?

Also, I wonder if Toyota will be mad when they find their Celica headlights on a Nissan.

 

[Omnis]

I wonder what the underbelly looks like. I wish they would focus on aerodynamics before going off into alternative methods of propulsion.

 

[YSSMAN]

I don't think the exterior is that bad, an odd mix of French and Japanese style at the least. But, things being the way they are with Renault and Nissan, I'd rather see a Frenchie running this powertrain.

 

[Keef]

$25-27K

Somebody needs to work on their definition of "everyman".

The first time I see some retard sitting next to me at a red light, I'm going to deliberately rev my engine and waste as much fuel as possible. Then I'll race him, and beat him. Then I'll put four people in my car and a trunk full of luggage. And still beat him. Then I'll take a few corners, and still beat him. Then I'll drive 500 miles on one tank of gas while he has to stop and charge up his pitiful little ecothing.

Also, mine cost $8,000, and will probably last longer than that ecothing even though mine is already 10 years old.

I dare you to justify your $25,000 while you wait 8 hours for a charge that won't even last one day of spirited driving.

 

[Eric Demory]

OK, why are new cars looking way too futuristic now. This new Nissan Leaf looks like a 2020

 

[StrokerAce]

Somebody needs to work on their definition of "everyman".

The first time I see some retard sitting next to me at a red light, I'm going to deliberately rev my engine and waste as much fuel as possible. Then I'll race him, and beat him. Then I'll put four people in my car and a trunk full of luggage. And still beat him. Then I'll take a few corners, and still beat him. Then I'll drive 500 miles on one tank of gas while he has to stop and charge up his pitiful little ecothing.

Also, mine cost $8,000, and will probably last longer than that ecothing even though mine is already 10 years old.

I dare you to justify your $25,000 while you wait 8 hours for a charge that won't even last one day of spirited driving.

This quoted text is a good example of ignorance. First off, someone who buys any fuel saving car may it be a corrola, to a prius, to a "Leaf", won't race you. So you'll be the guy who looks like an idiot revvin loud out of the hole. I used to purposely not race people like that because I didn't want to waste my gas. I couldnt stand the ricers in their Hondas and Hyundais and Toyotas, thinking that just because they stopped at pepboys and got a fart pipe, that their car is "fast". Also, Id like to see you get 500 miles to a tank of gas. You would have to have a very nice car to be able to race and make 40mpg.


I don't think the Nissan Leaf looks too bad, I mean they could have picked a better name, the name is a little well, doesn't seem like they tried too hard.
This is a great idea, they need more of these cars in major cities like NYC London and Mexico City. They would save so much fuel and cause much less pollution if they massively introduced them as taxi cabs. NYC is slowly introducing Prius's for cabs but not fast enough. I love my american muscle I used to own two ford mustangs, but I also have a love for hybrids and EV's. I just recently took a prius on a 2000 mile road trip and it was a lot of fun trying to Hypermile the thing the whole time.

 

[Grand Prix]

I'm not really interested in the Leaf, but I'm excited at what other manufacturers are going to come up with in response. 100 miles charge and $25,000 are good starting points. If there was an EV that cost $17,000 and got 200 miles to the charge, and had a sound generator so that you could have any engine sound you wanted (Ferrari 512S, mmmm!), we'd be set.

 

[a6m5]

These cars look like this to reduce the drag, right? And while I'm sure we'd all wish the new Nissan Leaf look like custom Datsun 510/Bluebird, I really don't think Leaf is any uglier the Prius.

I'm not really interested in the Leaf, but I'm excited at what other manufacturers are going to come up with in response. 100 miles charge and $25,000 are good starting points.

Same here. Not at all interested in this particular car, but most definitely interested in where this type of technology can take us.

Too many focus on what hybrids & electrics cars can do now. I try to look at what they will be able to do, down the line. And yes, if we all bought electric cars, "they" will find another way other than gas/oil to screw us. But if people drove both types, it would actually give us options.

 

[Omnis]

They should call it the Nissan "That piece of clay we sat on".

 

[homeforsummer]

The first time I see some retard sitting next to me at a red light, I'm going to deliberately rev my engine and waste as much fuel as possible. Then I'll race him, and beat him. Then I'll put four people in my car and a trunk full of luggage. And still beat him. Then I'll take a few corners, and still beat him. Then I'll drive 500 miles on one tank of gas while he has to stop and charge up his pitiful little ecothing.

I agree with the other sentiment mentioned above. You don't prove anything by doing that, you just make yourself look like an utter berk. All technology needs to start somewhere but for some reason when it comes to cars everyone is suddenly a critic. Twenty-odd years ago people thought the Sony Walkman was a bit bulky, and ate through batteries, but they stuck with it and today we have iPod Nanos.

What you've mentioned above is the equivalent of some plank with a ghetto-blaster pumping his music at a high volume next to someone trying out an original Walkman.

OK, why are new cars looking way too futuristic now. This new Nissan Leaf looks like a 2020

I don't particularly like the look of the Leaf but I'm not against cars becoming "futuristic". At the very least it shows that they've thought about the design rather than evolving a current one. Slow progress sucks - big steps are what we need.

Too many focus on what hybrids & electrics cars can do now. I try to look at what they will be able to do, down the line. And yes, if we all bought electric cars, "they" will find another way other than gas/oil to screw us. But if people drove both types, it would actually give us options.

I agree completely. People have to bear in mind that it's taken over a hundred years of development of the motor car to get us where we are today. The petrol internal combustion engine was essentially pretty crappy for a pretty long time.

 

[Keef]

My point is that my old car is just plain better than that ecothing. It's entirely more useable, has better performance in all aspects, and still gets spectacular mileage, while being cheap and easy to operate and maintain.

Okay okay, it's not as aerodynamic. And the cup holders are probably smaller.

I'm not ignorant about electric cars, how they work, what they may be good for, and all that stuff. The only place that car would be even halfway practical would be in, say, downtown New York, or some equally populous place where you work may be a block from your house. But everywhere else, half of a day's charge goes to commuting back and forth to work for a half hour each direction. Just the inconvenience of the thing is enough not to buy it. The amount of gas I have left hasn't crossed my mind all day, except for right now. I won't have to fill up for another week. But I would have to charge that ecothing literally every night. I wouldn't even be able to drive to Columbus, in my own state. The most practical application of that car would be for a food delivery guy--but pizza delivery guys regularly put 100+ miles on their car in one night. The majority of them don't make enough money to consider spending $25,000 of it.

Think about that. If you have this ecothing, you'll be forced to own another car in order to do pretty much anything at all. That means you'll still have to pay for gas for that car, and now you have to pay for insurance for both, and think about the wastefulness of having two cars built and owning both, when all you actually need is one. Where is the "eco" in that? Sounds like a tremendous waste of money, time, and resources.

I'd much rather have a small, practical, economical, gas-powered Nissan car. I wish they made one of those.

I will concede that I'm interested in the future of this technology. When their level of convenience equals or rivals that of a gasoline or diesel car. Until then, they're pointless.

 

[homeforsummer]

Without early adopters who can practically use cars like this Nissan though the technology would never progress. I'm sure there are plenty of people who solely drive in the city who could make use of it very well and it would be miles cheaper than filling up with petrol even taking into account that they'd be charging it each night. Where I live, there's an entirely electric bus service - I'm sure the range on them is pretty awful but seeing as they spend the entire time going around the city centre it doesn't matter in the slightest.

Your arguement that "they're pointless" doesn't wash. Petrol cars would be "pointless" if they still needed ten litre engines that made 11bhp and drank fuel like Boris Yeltsin went through Vodka. But they don't, because the technology progressed. People bought them which funded the companies making them, who could then produce them in greater numbers and cheaper, and the proceeds from the even greater sales pushed forward development.

Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer your Civic too, but it's ignorant to discount an emerging technology before it's enjoyed the same development as existing technology. And it needs the early adopters otherwise manufacturers wouldn't see the need to bother continuing.

Oh, and the Nissan Versa? God no, people seem to rave about them in the States but they're like the automotive equivalent of drizzle. I'm hugely thankful we don't get them in the UK...

 

[Jondot]

Oh, and the Nissan Versa? God no, people seem to rave about them in the States but they're like the automotive equivalent of drizzle. I'm hugely thankful we don't get them in the UK...

Well be fair - the cheapest Versa costs the equivalent of £5,900 in the US, which undercuts the price of our rebadged Indian drizzle by over £1,000.

I think I'd rather have some extra space and £1,000 in my pocket, thank you very much.

That said, I wouldn't want either of them. The Pixo's essentially a giant Assam tea bag - Indian made, disposable, and soggy when wet. And the Versa... well that'd be about as exciting a purchase as a new ironing board cover - in 3 weeks time you'd just forget it was there.

 

[Jim Prower]

Main problem I see is in delivery of energy to the vehicle. I'm not certain people realize just HOW MUCH potential energy there IS in gasoline. A lot of that is because we possess neither the materials nor the technology to capture and use all of the heat in a car, (Compounding, anyone?) but that which DOES make it to the road is STILL phenominal.

But, Petrol, or Diesel, is easy to store, and easy to transfer to a vehicle. To fill an electric car in the same amount of time, you would need to hook up to something like a Subtransmission station (26,000 or 69,000 Volts) or even main transmission lines (138,000/230,000 Volts,) and have HUGE lines running to your (Very sturdy indeed) battery, to have a "fill-up" of electrons, equivalent to the energy in 60 gallons of Petrol, in 3 minutes rather than 3 hours.

Those...are lethal amounts of electricity.

This is primarily because the high amperage/Voltage combination can lead to deadly-long arcs. You're pushing a ton of electrons through very quickly. As well, a battery will have to deal with electricity levels previously only seen in backup power situations for hospitals...and those are HUGE.

Now, whether this ever actually happens (and electric companies not only provide these "Filling Stations," but charge through the nose far beyond ordinary home KW/H rates for the electricity for them) or not depends on if the electricity can be delivered in a manner which won't create violent, high-voltage arcs, and won't blow up the battery in the process. It might be able to be done. who knows? but I'm gonna be pret-ty nervous about that sort of thing.

Face it, our normal 120/240 volt home electricity just can't deliver the kind of energy to fill up in minutes.

 

[Keef]

Oh, and the Nissan Versa? God no, people seem to rave about them in the States but they're like the automotive equivalent of drizzle. I'm hugely thankful we don't get them in the UK...

The only American that raves about the Versa is YSSMAN. And, of course, all the people who got one free with the purchase of a Nissan Titan.

Main problem I see is in delivery of energy to the vehicle. I'm not certain people realize just HOW MUCH potential energy there IS in gasoline. A lot of that is because we possess neither the materials nor the technology to capture and use all of the heat in a car, (Compounding, anyone?) but that which DOES make it to the road is STILL phenominal.

But, Petrol, or Diesel, is easy to store, and easy to transfer to a vehicle. To fill an electric car in the same amount of time, you would need to hook up to something like a Subtransmission station (26,000 or 69,000 Volts) or even main transmission lines (138,000/230,000 Volts,) and have HUGE lines running to your (Very sturdy indeed) battery, to have a "fill-up" of electrons, equivalent to the energy in 60 gallons of Petrol, in 3 minutes rather than 3 hours.

Those...are lethal amounts of electricity.

This is primarily because the high amperage/Voltage combination can lead to deadly-long arcs. You're pushing a ton of electrons through very quickly. As well, a battery will have to deal with electricity levels previously only seen in backup power situations for hospitals...and those are HUGE.

Now, whether this ever actually happens (and electric companies not only provide these "Filling Stations," but charge through the nose far beyond ordinary home KW/H rates for the electricity for them) or not depends on if the electricity can be delivered in a manner which won't create violent, high-voltage arcs, and won't blow up the battery in the process. It might be able to be done. who knows? but I'm gonna be pret-ty nervous about that sort of thing.

Face it, our normal 120/240 volt home electricity just can't deliver the kind of energy to fill up in minutes.

One time I shocked myself on a car battery. A regular one. I was not a happy camper, and I don't think I would be down for any more risky an operation.

 

[Omnis]

The only American that raves about the Versa is YSSMAN. And, of course, all the people who got one free with the purchase of a Nissan Titan.


One time I shocked myself on a car battery. A regular one. I was not a happy camper, and I don't think I would be down for any more risky an operation.

YSSMAN also raves about Coach handbags.

 

[YSSMAN]

Lulz! When did I speak positively of the Versa? I drove one and hated it. But, I do love them Coach handbags!


It seems like we always end up talking about the same thing in an EV thread. They're not made for everyone, but for a lot of people, they'll work just fine. I don't drive over 100 miles a day. In fact, I rarely go more than 30. So, to have to put in so little to be able to drive the car around in my daily commute... It would work just fine. Of course, thats when you start getting the bitch-slaps from EV purists, PHV folks, and regular ol' Hybrid lovers. Personally, whatever is cheapest, as well as looks and drives most like a regular car gets the nod. Thus far, there really hasn't been a winner there. Maybe the Tesla Model S, but the $50K sticker is too high. We could talk about the Chevrolet Volt, but most would agree that the 40 mile charge isn't exactly enough to get things done.

 

[Eric.]

Basically we need something like the Volt that can operate somewhat adequately just on electricity but have gas as a backup - but with somewhere around 120 mile range for the electricity.

Gasoline engines are what, 10% efficient? Can somebody run through the math to find out how much electricity and how much KW/hr that would cost to charge an EV compared to that amount of energy in the fuel that would be used (10% of the gasoline's potential)?

Sorry that that became extremely wordy, but I've got to hurry off and get some sleep. Warped Tour in the morning.

 

[YSSMAN]

Does this help from the article?

Perhaps more important than the Leaf's top speed are its battery's charging characteristics. In this regard, the car's under-floor mounted assembly of 48 lithium ion modules (each laptop-sized module is comprised of four magazine-sized cells) offers a number of charging strategies. To yield a full charge, a 200-volt, single-phase AC charger takes less than eight hours, and topping off the battery from a 100 volt single-phase standard home wall outlet will take somewhere around twice that time, so prospective Leafmakers would do well to get 220 volt hookup like their clothes dryer uses out in their garage.

More impressive is the battery pack's 50 kW AC fast-charge capability, which is capable of accepting an 80% charge in less than 30 minutes, or an extra 50 km (31 miles) worth of range in about 10 minutes. For that, though, you'll need access to a special dedicated (and at around $45,000 – expensive) three-phase charger, which various cities around the globe have begun installing as part of their own greening strategies. The executives we spoke with says they are working with local governments in the States and around the world to help build supporting infrastructure, but they admit the automaker has no plans to financially support the networks themselves, and fast chargers like the one we experienced in Yokohama are clearly cost-prohibitive for private ownership.

Nissan sees the capability for dramatic user cost-savings versus a traditional internal-combustion equivalent. Using typical Japanese market figures as a starting point, the automaker says an equivalent internal-combustion vehicle's fuel consumption figure of 20 km/liter (47.5 mpg U.S.) over 1,000 km/month (620 miles) costs about 6,000 yen per month – about $63 U.S. dollars. Conversely, assuming the same operating parameters for the Leaf (using a charge cycle using cheaper nighttime energy rates), Nissan sees an operating cost for its ZEV of just 1,200 yen per month ¬– less than $13. Of course, American drivers will likely pile on far more miles per month on average, and our energy costs differ, but the point is clear – the automaker sees the Leaf as having real money-saving potential.

Totally efficent? Not completely, but not bad either. My hope is that a Volt2.0 would be able to use the same level of efficiency in its battery pack, but if it was true that the early Malibu mules were going well beyond the 40 mile mark... That makes me hopeful that 50-ish miles could be seen on a single charge.

 

[homeforsummer]

But, Petrol, or Diesel, is easy to store, and easy to transfer to a vehicle. To fill an electric car in the same amount of time, you would need to hook up to something like a Subtransmission station (26,000 or 69,000 Volts) or even main transmission lines (138,000/230,000 Volts,) and have HUGE lines running to your (Very sturdy indeed) battery, to have a "fill-up" of electrons, equivalent to the energy in 60 gallons of Petrol, in 3 minutes rather than 3 hours.

Those...are lethal amounts of electricity.

You make a good point, but you also make the same old mistake of assuming:

a) Battery technology will always be the same.
b) Charging technology will always be the same.
c) Electric cars will always need a certain output in order to function.

Assume, in the process of refining efficiency, that they're able to improve the amount of energy a battery can store, the method of getting power from the grid into the battery and the amount of energy the car uses from the battery in order to do the same as electric cars do today. It's natural progress and you won't need an electricity substation in your house.

There are already technologies in place to enable you to do a 90% charge in a tenth the time of a 100% charge.

 

[Philly]

You guys are all off debating about the future, but the fact of the matter is that electric cars are already perfectly fine for your average city dweller. They don't meet the demands I have of a car because I like to drive a lot, but I'm sure the majority of Seattleites would have no problems using an electric car. A lot of people really don't have to go all that far in their daily drives, so the limited range still isn't much of an obstacle.

In fact, I think the biggest issue with the electric car is currently the actual cars that are offered. I see a few of those ZENN things around, and they simply don't look like a car anybody would want to own. Give us an actual car like a Leaf, or better yet, something with a Toyota badge, and they'll be everywhere. Guaranteed.

I guess charging the car would be an issue for a lot of people. Inside of the city boundaries (the areas that people driving EVs would likely live), there is basically only street parking. The one car garages that most Seattle homes have are tiny, hard to pull into and out of and full of junk. So extension cords might be used or something, but a little more thought has to go into that. The local Park & Ride installed three EV charging spots (which only ever have ICE cars in them, being close to the buses), which is a start. But the city is pushing this whole green thing (exactly the program EV buyers would fit into) that includes condos in the middle of town. I imagine it would be pretty inconvenient to have to charge a car parked on a city road outside an apartment building. So a little work is needed, but I'd say we're almost to the point that a healthy percentage of the population could incorporate an EV into their daily lives.

Main problem I see is in delivery of energy to the vehicle. I'm not certain people realize just HOW MUCH potential energy there IS in gasoline. A lot of that is because we possess neither the materials nor the technology to capture and use all of the heat in a car, (Compounding, anyone?) but that which DOES make it to the road is STILL phenominal.

I wonder if we could run some kind of a powerplant using the heat coming off an internal combustion engine... If we could hook up some high efficiency generator using steam power from water running through the engine, I bet we could make some sort of usable electricity for a hybrid. And then combine that with regen brakes and you might have something kinda cool. And the cooling requirements of the engine would be lower.