1980s & 1990s Gr.A RS500, E30, 190E, Supra, R32, DTM, BTCC, ATCC
- Thread starter 05XR8
- 57 comments
- 17,114 views
- 93
- Mexico
This is my VN Commodore replacement. It's the 1988 S13 Silvia Q's. It's currently available in the UCD. I've just bought 5 – one for each Commodore that qualified in the top 20 at Bathurst 1991.
Of all the cars in the game, the S13 has the body shape most similar to the VN. Its flat sides, roofline and even front bumper intakes are all very similar. The reason for choosing the Q's over the K's is the availability of an LS7 engine swap, which gives it enough power and makes it sound like it should.
Apart from the engine swap, you need to buy ballast, power restrictor, racing brakes and pads, fully customisable suspension and fully customisable gearbox, plus all the visual bits from GT Auto. The engine swap costs 300k, so it's not a super cheap build.
The rims are 17" Spoon rims with wide offset.
With the power restrictor and the ECU both at 70%, power output is 515hp (522bhp) which is slightly more than the 1991 VN race cars had (roughly 500). I currently have 70kg ballast, which brings weight up to 1250kg. I have the top speed set to 275km/h (170mph) in the auto settings.
With racing mediums, 5º negative camber at the front and 4.5º at the rear, and downforce at the maximum setting (100 front and 250 rear), I was able to do a 2.17:00 around Mount Panorama, which is maybe a little too fast. I'll probably increase weight to 1325kg, and maybe reduce the downforce.
This article is somewhat ambiguous about the car's weight. In the wheels and tyres section, it explicitly says that the car weighed 1250kg, but then in the engine section, it implied that it actually weighed 1325kg.
Of all the cars in the game, the S13 has the body shape most similar to the VN. Its flat sides, roofline and even front bumper intakes are all very similar. The reason for choosing the Q's over the K's is the availability of an LS7 engine swap, which gives it enough power and makes it sound like it should.
Apart from the engine swap, you need to buy ballast, power restrictor, racing brakes and pads, fully customisable suspension and fully customisable gearbox, plus all the visual bits from GT Auto. The engine swap costs 300k, so it's not a super cheap build.
The rims are 17" Spoon rims with wide offset.
With the power restrictor and the ECU both at 70%, power output is 515hp (522bhp) which is slightly more than the 1991 VN race cars had (roughly 500). I currently have 70kg ballast, which brings weight up to 1250kg. I have the top speed set to 275km/h (170mph) in the auto settings.
With racing mediums, 5º negative camber at the front and 4.5º at the rear, and downforce at the maximum setting (100 front and 250 rear), I was able to do a 2.17:00 around Mount Panorama, which is maybe a little too fast. I'll probably increase weight to 1325kg, and maybe reduce the downforce.
This article is somewhat ambiguous about the car's weight. In the wheels and tyres section, it explicitly says that the car weighed 1250kg, but then in the engine section, it implied that it actually weighed 1325kg.
- 48,709
- Australia
The http://touringcarracing.net/Pages/1987 Cars.html link in the op, from Group N to Group A, show the weight in That 1325kg range, with power from 415-480 HP.
A Quick Look for gearing of a couple VN SS models:
TR Borg Warner T5
1st 3.25:1
2nd 1.99:1
3rd 1.29:1
4th 1.00:1
5th 0.72:1
Final drive is 3.08:1
Plus, this link https://www.australianmusclecarsales.com.au/sold/1990-vn-ss-group-commodore-build-495-244795
Ratios: First: 2.680, Second: 1.800, Third: 1.290, Fourth: 1.01, Fifth: 0.750, Sixth: 0.500, Reverse: 2.500
Differential: 3.45:1 Limited Slip Differential.
I’m not sure of weight distribution.
A Quick Look for gearing of a couple VN SS models:
TR Borg Warner T5
1st 3.25:1
2nd 1.99:1
3rd 1.29:1
4th 1.00:1
5th 0.72:1
Final drive is 3.08:1
Plus, this link https://www.australianmusclecarsales.com.au/sold/1990-vn-ss-group-commodore-build-495-244795
Ratios: First: 2.680, Second: 1.800, Third: 1.290, Fourth: 1.01, Fifth: 0.750, Sixth: 0.500, Reverse: 2.500
Differential: 3.45:1 Limited Slip Differential.
I’m not sure of weight distribution.
Last edited:
- 93
- Mexico
Interestingly, in the second link it says that the VN SS Group A's weight was 1250kg, down from 1325 in the VL. However, they're talking about the road-going version, so it's possible the race version still weighed 1325kg due to Group A regs.
I just checked the qualy times for the 1991 Bathurst 1000, and Brock did a 2:16.1, so my 2:17.00 on mediums with no racing clutch is probably a bit faster than it should be, but adding an extra 75kg of ballast should make the difference.
It's worth noting that the S13 is also a good option for VL mockups, in fact probably more so, given the thin headlights and taillights. It wouldn't need the janky headlight and taillight decals that my VN has. I would make VLs if I wasn't specifically trying to recreate the 1991 grid, the year Godzilla got its first win.
- 93
- Mexico
Does anyone know power and weight figures for the ATCC Supra?
All I can find is that it was heavy and underpowered, but nothing in the way of numbers.
Ok, I've found this information which puts the 1987 version at 400hp and 480nm and weight between 1350 and 1400kg. This is for the WRC car, although I suppose we can assume similar figures for the circuit racers?
All I can find is that it was heavy and underpowered, but nothing in the way of numbers.
Ok, I've found this information which puts the 1987 version at 400hp and 480nm and weight between 1350 and 1400kg. This is for the WRC car, although I suppose we can assume similar figures for the circuit racers?
Last edited:
- 48,709
- Australia
This is where I got my info for the ATCC Supra.Does anyone know power and weight figures for the ATCC Supra?
All I can find is that it was heavy and underpowered, but nothing in the way of numbers.
Ok, I've found this information which puts the 1987 version at 400hp and 480nm and weight between 1350 and 1400kg. This is for the WRC car, although I suppose we can assume similar figures for the circuit racers?
Toyota Supra: Showroom Racing Great. Group A Heavy Weight. - Shannons Club
2.0 litre Celica racing star and Toyota dealer Peter Williamson upgraded to the larger six cylinder-powered Supra coupe in 1984. This is how his Celica Supra MA...
www.shannons.com.au
I was actually at that Muscle Car Masters event, in September 2011(Father’s Day down here). Took pictures of all the Group A machines, but wasn’t thinking about asking for performance numbers.
From a Japanese racing Facebook page
- 93
- Mexico
This is great information. So I'm aiming for 400hp and 1400kg. Jeez, no wonder it got smoked.
- 93
- Mexico
Any tips to make the Sierra not drive like an absolute pig after weight reduction? It's a very easy car to drive when it's stock, but with all the weight taken out, the rear just wants to let go all the time. I don't even just mean in traction zones (which can be solved with careful throttle application), I mean upshifting from third to fourth, or holding full throttle while going around a slight curve. For example, around Mt Panorama, I'll often completely lose the rear going through the easily flat uphill left turns on the way from Griffins up to McPhillamy. Same deal turning into the esses at Watkins Glen. Basically it just spins out if you try to steer at high speed.
I've tried adding ballast and moving it rearwards, I've tried increasing the acceleration effect on the diff, I've tried raising the ride height and increasing rear toe-in. Nothing seems to work.
This is where I'm at right now. Sorry for the UI in Spanish, hopefully it's still easy enough to understand.
I've tried adding ballast and moving it rearwards, I've tried increasing the acceleration effect on the diff, I've tried raising the ride height and increasing rear toe-in. Nothing seems to work.
This is where I'm at right now. Sorry for the UI in Spanish, hopefully it's still easy enough to understand.
Last edited:
05XR8, I didn’t mention in my most recent post in the custom race thread but all my cars I meticulously tuned using your tunes in here, are all +- 10 PP less than all your tunes. I went so far as to match wheels and still couldn’t get them to match up precisely. Just thought it was strange. Again I super appreciate all your info!
- 48,709
- Australia
For the Sierra, Wheels are 17”, wide rim width, wide offset. No Wide Body.
E30 ‘89, wheels are 17”, wide rim width, wide offset. No Wide Body.
E30 Evo, wheels are 18”, wide rim width, wide offset. No Wide Body.
Supra ATCC & DTM, wheels are 17”, wide rim width, wide offset. No Wide Body.
Supra DTM Wide Body to get the desired increased tyre width, wheels are 18”, wide rim width is optional, wide offset.
Keep in mind with aero, the E30s are tail happy. Too much front aero and the rear just looses it. Increase rear aero or decrease front aero for better rear grip.
I see you’re on Comfort Mediums. Thats a lot of power and torque for the low grip treaded tyre, with Gran Turismo physics. I use the Racing Hard. Dial the Anti-Roll bars to Level 5 and add a bit more Natural Frequency/spring stiffness.
You can also adjust the Toe Angle. I have mine set with Toe-out. It does make the cars more lively. So I feel like I have to maintain control, like the old school races these cars were in. Decrease the front Toe-out until you feel you have a better balance. The rear toe angle would also need to be adjusted.
Additionally, the real race cars had the same issues with putting power to the ground. May not be ideal for many players, but I see it as part of the car characteristics and I enjoy that part of driving these cars.
A few set ups I run for the RS500
Remember, these are base set ups. It’s how I play. Definitely check out other player’s car set ups that may guide or suit your style of driving.
- 93
- Mexico
I knew I should have switched the UI to English before screenshotting. 😅 I just assumed it would be fine because everything is still in the same place, but CM in Spanish is racing medium, as the c is for "carrera". (Since the topic came up, might as well share an interesting fact. Porsche's "Carrera" nomenclature and even the logo font come from Mexico's most famous Targa-style rally.)
I've actually been able to mitigate the problem a bit by reducing the front and rear camber angle. It's still very loose, but better than before. This is where I'm at now. I don't think I can reduce the camber any more, because it's starting to get more difficult to turn the car in.
I just find it weird that I'm spinning out in high-speed sections, like the uphill at Mt Panorama or the esses at Watkins Glen. This is when I would expect the rear end to have plenty of grip and understeer to be more of an issue. Here's a replay of some testing at the Glen. What do you think? Is this behaviour normal and I just need to sort out my skill issue? Or is it weird?
Last edited:
- 48,709
- Australia
Oh yes. The rear gets loose in long corners. Same happens at Monza Curva Grande. It does take a bit of learning the limits of this car.
Still, annoying having a big rear spoiler with no downforce. Yet, PD missed this bit of info:
Weapons Grade: A trip down memory lane with the Sierra Cosworth RS500 - Hagerty Media
The RS500's value today is not just about rarity, because this Ford didn’t just triumph over its rivals in world-class saloon-car racing—it pulverized them.
www.hagerty.com
- 93
- Mexico
I really feel like PD botched the Sierra. The turbo upgrades in the tuning shop add a pitiful amount of power, and the only way to get rear downforce adjustment is by removing one of the spoilers in GT Auto.
Anyway, I'll have to work on my driving to get the most out of it. I did notice that the AI crashed less with it once I reduced the camber, so that's something.
Anyway, I'll have to work on my driving to get the most out of it. I did notice that the AI crashed less with it once I reduced the camber, so that's something.
- 1,711
- United States
I’ve had a roll cage change PP, too.
- 48,709
- Australia
Yes. Subtle changes with various parts.
I thought no diffuser, just wanted to be sure. Figured out how to take a screenshot of my settings and save to my activities, now working on where activities are and how to actually post the screenshot here. Lol. I’m old-ish.
Ok, i feel really dumb because I could not for the life of me figure out how to post a screenshot from my ps4. I could take them and share to activities but not figure out a way to post. Sooooo, I took a short video of them and took a screenshot from the video on YouTube. Lol so here are my settings. Whew.
Attachments
Last edited:
- 93
- Mexico
I ended up having to do this. I hate it, not only because it looks wrong, but also because the aero is simulated incorrectly. However, it makes the Sierra driveable, so it's the cost of wanting to actually race it and not just look at it.
- 48,709
- Australia
I seriously doubt it has to do with anything, but even the names of certain parts have been amended. "Racing Air Filter" and "Racing Muffler" been changed from just "Racing", early in the game's life. Seems like adjustments PD have made.
I've gone back to Project Cars 2 power levels, at 390 BHP. I'll post a screenshot.
