2013 Formula 1 Japanese Grand Prix
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- Peasantslayer
I think it probably was quicker but for Webber to make it work he had to pass Grosjean and Vettel.
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I am really pleased for Mark getting second place, congratulations mate.
He deserved to win that race and had the jump on finger boy, Grosjean was never going to win it, it was Mark's for the taking.
This is beyond ridiculous, the Team principal openly lying after the race on BBC TV that Mark's strategy was dictated by the first tire stop. The hypocrisy was dripping off of him, even the BBC reporter stared at him sceptically as he was answering her rightfully posed question!!! Mark has since stated that this wasnt the case and that he was good to go on 2 stops as per his pre race plans. WTH? The team changed the strategy on him purely to engineer a win for FB. There really are no limits to RB making sure he doesn't win a race this year!!!
Why on earth didn't he stay out? Finger boy was only catching him by 0,6 of a seconds a lap, Mark had a 14 + second lead. Even if he lost a second a lap he would have been in front at the end of the race. Bloody hell, my blood would boil if I were him.
I am proud of Mark's achievement all the same, and it should have been his race!!! Robbed once again plain and simple.
He deserved to win that race and had the jump on finger boy, Grosjean was never going to win it, it was Mark's for the taking.
This is beyond ridiculous, the Team principal openly lying after the race on BBC TV that Mark's strategy was dictated by the first tire stop. The hypocrisy was dripping off of him, even the BBC reporter stared at him sceptically as he was answering her rightfully posed question!!! Mark has since stated that this wasnt the case and that he was good to go on 2 stops as per his pre race plans. WTH? The team changed the strategy on him purely to engineer a win for FB. There really are no limits to RB making sure he doesn't win a race this year!!!
Why on earth didn't he stay out? Finger boy was only catching him by 0,6 of a seconds a lap, Mark had a 14 + second lead. Even if he lost a second a lap he would have been in front at the end of the race. Bloody hell, my blood would boil if I were him.
I am proud of Mark's achievement all the same, and it should have been his race!!! Robbed once again plain and simple.
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Uh... Mark's strategy WAS dictated by the first stop. He came in for tires long before Vettel did. Vettel suffered several extra laps of horrible tire degradation, almost losing it coming into the pits, to make the two-stopper work.
Hell... I was wondering why Red Bull was leaving him out so late, when he could have come in earlier and kept pace with the other two.
In the middle stints, Vettel wasn't catching up Mark that quick because they were on different strategies. Mark was on the "rabbit" three stopper and Vettel and Grosjean were on the "turtle" two stopper.
If you take a gamble on Vettel running the tires ragged in the first stint, you want the other guy on a different strategy. There's nothing unusual in a team doing that. Sure, they'd prefer Vettel on top, but Mark was given his chance.
Hell... I was wondering why Red Bull was leaving him out so late, when he could have come in earlier and kept pace with the other two.
In the middle stints, Vettel wasn't catching up Mark that quick because they were on different strategies. Mark was on the "rabbit" three stopper and Vettel and Grosjean were on the "turtle" two stopper.
If you take a gamble on Vettel running the tires ragged in the first stint, you want the other guy on a different strategy. There's nothing unusual in a team doing that. Sure, they'd prefer Vettel on top, but Mark was given his chance.
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Sorry mate I don't agree with you on any of that, Mark has stated in more than 3 interviews post race, that he was on a two stop ""turtle"" strategy and that he was very surprised to have been called in that early to change to a three stop race. Which chance was he given? I am curious to know, as far as I can see his chances were ruined by the change of strategy, so please do tell? Where did he squander said chance?
CH is lying plain and simple, this is just purely ensuring that fB wins even when he in this case had no right to. Even respected F1 commentators are seeing this as a tactical win engineered for FB. You also have rival Team principals publicly stating post race that, given the chance they would do the same. So no there is nothing unusual here, it's the same BS Mark has put up with for the last few years, why change now?
CH is lying plain and simple, this is just purely ensuring that fB wins even when he in this case had no right to. Even respected F1 commentators are seeing this as a tactical win engineered for FB. You also have rival Team principals publicly stating post race that, given the chance they would do the same. So no there is nothing unusual here, it's the same BS Mark has put up with for the last few years, why change now?
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Well... yes... why? Red Bull do love screwing Mark... and I agree, it's not beneath them. Again, though... it's not unusual to split strategies, but if Mark really felt he could have gone on longer on that first stint, then shame.
He could have just ignored the call, though. Nothing to lose, at this point.
Just like Massa:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110624
Apparently, "Multi-function strategy A" was team orders. Which is kind of silly. They could have said: "Felipe, the donkey is in the sling." Would've actually fooled everyone.
He could have just ignored the call, though. Nothing to lose, at this point.
Just like Massa:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110624
Apparently, "Multi-function strategy A" was team orders. Which is kind of silly. They could have said: "Felipe, the donkey is in the sling." Would've actually fooled everyone.
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- David_JV
By taking 7-8 laps to complete a pass Vettel did in a quarter of the time (despite choosing to run a skinner rear wing that should have aided overtaking). Roles reversed, and Vettel would have caught Webber on options and won anyway.
This is why I hate talking about this guy. Instead of talking about his strongest drive all season (or since Silverstone), we have people just moaning about getting screwed, when he just purely couldn't pass "first lap nutcase" quickly, like his teammate.
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BS mate, yes it was a strong drive, the point is, RB put Mark there, he didn't say hey lets go in the pits and make sure I come out behind Grosjean, his team did that for him.
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- David_JV
And that was down the tyres. Vettel, who is better on the tyres than Mark anyway, had to stay a few seconds back to be in clear air from the top two, and had to do everything to struggle to make the 2 stopper work, while keeping a respectable pace. Webber simply wasn't able to makes the tyres last, given that he stayed closer to Grosjean than Vettel stayed to him after losing the lead at the start:
"We went in to the race thinking it was going to be marginal for a two-stop, but probably in clear air we could do that."
That's why he was put onto the 3 stopper, where he had every chance to win, but lost because he couldn't pass "first lap nutcase", which his teammate did do.
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MW had out paced FB and was comfortably ahead, his tires were fine, it's all about the second stint, MW's lap times were consistent up to his second stop, with in 0,3 seconds of each other. FB was not catching him fast enough to warrant changing to a 3 stop race, Grosjean was never a threat for either of the RB's. You are skirting around the facts in trying to defend FB and RB.
The facts are very clear on what happened and what was and wasn't said regarding the switch, post race, MW has stated he was surprised by his team with the change of strategy, CH said the change was due to his first stop, which is untrue.
Mw had enough of a lead to win the race, it was taken from him by the team changing strategy and not the supposition that he was or wasn't harder on his tires today. MW stated he could have gone to the end.
The facts are very clear on what happened and what was and wasn't said regarding the switch, post race, MW has stated he was surprised by his team with the change of strategy, CH said the change was due to his first stop, which is untrue.
Mw had enough of a lead to win the race, it was taken from him by the team changing strategy and not the supposition that he was or wasn't harder on his tires today. MW stated he could have gone to the end.
The Outlaw
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As far as the skinnier rear wing aiding overtaking, I think from our veiwpoint it's a bit hard to say with any certainty. The last sector of Suzuka requires a fair bit of downforce really, and Webber might have just been losing a bit too much ground going though the final chicane complex, while struggling with dirty air and rear traction leading onto the main straight. I'm not saying that this is certainly the case, but rather it's not as clear cut as, "a skinnier rear wing should have aided overtaking."
Also, I think it's rather hard to judge which race may have been Vettel's strongest drive all season, particularly when there are so many unaccounted variables to factor in. Just because he started in 3rd place (which is a bit unusual for him, when the car is as strong as it is atm) and managed to work his way to the front in a timely manner, overtaking a car on the way...doesn't add a whole lot of icing (spectacularity) to the cake (win) in my view. Personally, I feel Vettel's best drive was at Singapore really, despite being in free air the entire time. He was really on a completely different planet to other cars and his team mate there - he was utterly dominant, unlike today.
Yes, it was a solid drive that got the job done, but once again if you wanted to win the race today, the Red Bull was the car to have, especially when your team mate is likely to be forced to play second fiddle (as many other teams would do with a WDC on the table). Vettel had quite a poor start, had a rather sketchy moment where he went off track, and locked his front tires multiple times (one leading to a nasty blister) just from what little I saw.
It seems like all you need to do is start on the 2nd row in the Red Bull (which was still the strongest car at Suzuka IMO) and then work your way to the front and you'll be given the drive of the day time and time again. While if you're in anything other than a winning car, you won't be recognized nearly as often, or if you start from pole and win in a dominant fashion a similar thing could be said.
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- David_JV
"FB"? Vettel was told to stay roughly 2s behind the car ahead, while MW, who got the same message, closed up on RG anyway, leading to him "pulling away", but killing the Pirellis. MW would have needed an extra 5 laps+ on each set of tyres to do a 2 stopper, and we certainly don't know as clearly as you assume, whether his tyres would have been fine to do that.
Was referring to Webber, not Vettel, for having his possible strongest drive all year. I agree on Singapore for SV.
I would have said Grosjean was DOTD for today, then Vettel, then either Webbr or the Saubers.
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- Spurgy777
I was surprised at how difficult Mark found it to make that overtake, especially after Vettel had just done the same move with older, harder tyres, no DRS and less straight line speed.
The Outlaw
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Looking at your post again, that was rather obvious. I'll blame my lack of sleep 
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People still seem to forget that Mark picked a different aero package at Suzuka, which was a major reason for not being able to pass a better Lotus on the straight.
Yeah but you're the only one that has made the most sense, so I'd call your reasoning to question RBR a legitimate one. While the others are true tinfoil hats that rather use anger to make a claim with so many holes it'd sink on a dock.
JGreens
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I can't believe I'm going to actually defend Red Bull for once, but c'mon people look at the situation with the facts:
Is it any wonder that RB decided to switch? It's hardly secretive codewords and the like - but covert enough for the average joe not to see it and the broadcasters to disguise it - it makes the show more entertaining if the result isn't decided already and there's a bit of a 'mystery' and 'battle' going on.
Webber should not be expecting equal treatment or to be given a victory as some sort of 'farewell gift' - Massa knows he won't get anything like that from Ferrari and Webber should know better. Perhaps in Brazil or Austin, when both titles are secure, Webber might be offered the victory if he qualifies ahead of Golden Boy.
- Driver's Title not in display case
- Second driver leaving team at end of season
- Golden Boy was expected to be leading into first stops
- Other championship rivals rows behind Golden Boy
Is it any wonder that RB decided to switch? It's hardly secretive codewords and the like - but covert enough for the average joe not to see it and the broadcasters to disguise it - it makes the show more entertaining if the result isn't decided already and there's a bit of a 'mystery' and 'battle' going on.
Webber should not be expecting equal treatment or to be given a victory as some sort of 'farewell gift' - Massa knows he won't get anything like that from Ferrari and Webber should know better. Perhaps in Brazil or Austin, when both titles are secure, Webber might be offered the victory if he qualifies ahead of Golden Boy.
zzz_pt
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RBR's strategy for Webber would result IF Webber was on 1st position at the end of the fist corner. Fortunatly for the race and for me as a fan, Grosjean did a perfect start. 
I think Vettel is a better competitor then Webber. I don't risk to say he is a better driver. He just has more will to win IMO. And I think that all this bla bla about RBR pull down on Webber in this particular race is just nonsense.
Hope my english is good enough to you guys understand it.
I think Vettel is a better competitor then Webber. I don't risk to say he is a better driver. He just has more will to win IMO. And I think that all this bla bla about RBR pull down on Webber in this particular race is just nonsense.
Hope my english is good enough to you guys understand it.
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- YA SAY WHAT?!!!!
He did stay back......
and pitted when 3.4 sec behind. SV ranged up immediately and was inside the 2 secs before RG pitted.The aero package and strategy were only going to work for MW, if he led into turn 1 lap 1.
SV was not going to have MW take this victory away from him, even if MW got past RG straight away.
SV clearly stated, "keep him away from me".... just after the first pits and Christian said..."you are racing Grosjean."
BHRxRacer
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Good race. I only got bothered in the middle when Rocky said "We're racing Grosjean not Webber" and then seeing Webber pitting early after consistently setting fastest laps. It was clear to me what was going on at that point. I'll get to that.
The start
Hamilton left a little bit too much space on the left and dived into Vettel. Had Grosjean done that and took someone out, he'd be getting eaten by the media. I personally think it's a racing incident but I'm just pointing out common hypocrisy. Speaking of Grosjean, perfect start. Literally. Gave me so much hope of seeing him win I put aside my bored face and started smiling.
Webber got screwed
I don't even understand why some here are arguing about whether or not he was screwed. He was. The argument should be whether it's the right thing to do or not. Seeing as Alonso was still gaining some points, I'd do the same thing because you'd want to secure the title ASAP. The difference is, I'd be honest and clear about it. Pretty much why most fans that don't take themselves too seriously hate RB/Vettel. The level of dishonesty is so corporate/government like it's disgusting. Even Ferrari are honest about these things. At least they have been recently.
Vettel's first win?
He's done more mistakes in this race than he did in the whole season. It was interesting to see how he'd deal with pressure, and amusing to see him crack so often. How many offs and lock has he had? It wasn't a straight shootout between him and Mark so I'll reserve judgement whether it's his first ever real victory or not. Reason being the different set up, as well as Webber's screwjob. He clearly had a faster car than Grosjean in either cases anyway.
Webber can't overtake???
Someone said this already. His skinny rear wing would help if the straight was long enough, and if the exit leading to the straight was too slow. That wasn't the case and that's why he was so much behind Grosjean before even activating DRS.
Back of the pack
I think Rosberg did a great job. He was overtaking cars left and right, even on the S'es. Shame about the drive through. The Perez incident was an open and shut case. Hulkenberg, Gutierrez, Alonso and Kimi did great as well. Massa was doing fine until he was ordered to let Alonso pass. I think his anger/frustration with that is what lead him to the many mistakes that followed.
PS: I hate to defend Vettel but the "keep him away" sounded like it was aimed at Perez, not Webber. Has anyone asked him about that? If he was really talking about Webber then he's an even bigger **** than I thought he was.
The start
Hamilton left a little bit too much space on the left and dived into Vettel. Had Grosjean done that and took someone out, he'd be getting eaten by the media. I personally think it's a racing incident but I'm just pointing out common hypocrisy. Speaking of Grosjean, perfect start. Literally. Gave me so much hope of seeing him win I put aside my bored face and started smiling.
Webber got screwed
I don't even understand why some here are arguing about whether or not he was screwed. He was. The argument should be whether it's the right thing to do or not. Seeing as Alonso was still gaining some points, I'd do the same thing because you'd want to secure the title ASAP. The difference is, I'd be honest and clear about it. Pretty much why most fans that don't take themselves too seriously hate RB/Vettel. The level of dishonesty is so corporate/government like it's disgusting. Even Ferrari are honest about these things. At least they have been recently.
Vettel's first win?
He's done more mistakes in this race than he did in the whole season. It was interesting to see how he'd deal with pressure, and amusing to see him crack so often. How many offs and lock has he had? It wasn't a straight shootout between him and Mark so I'll reserve judgement whether it's his first ever real victory or not. Reason being the different set up, as well as Webber's screwjob. He clearly had a faster car than Grosjean in either cases anyway.
Webber can't overtake???
Someone said this already. His skinny rear wing would help if the straight was long enough, and if the exit leading to the straight was too slow. That wasn't the case and that's why he was so much behind Grosjean before even activating DRS.
Back of the pack
I think Rosberg did a great job. He was overtaking cars left and right, even on the S'es. Shame about the drive through. The Perez incident was an open and shut case. Hulkenberg, Gutierrez, Alonso and Kimi did great as well. Massa was doing fine until he was ordered to let Alonso pass. I think his anger/frustration with that is what lead him to the many mistakes that followed.
PS: I hate to defend Vettel but the "keep him away" sounded like it was aimed at Perez, not Webber. Has anyone asked him about that? If he was really talking about Webber then he's an even bigger **** than I thought he was.
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- GTP_ZippyCat
Lol at the GIF. Stay classy, Lewis.
Impressive drive from Grosjean, also Vettel, a bit less so from Webber, who I thought at the time wasn't producing quite the pace he needed to in his clear-air laps leading up to his final stop. Beyond that it's really hard to fault anyone in the top 7.
If Vettel's "keep him off me" radio call was meant for Perez he had every reason and right to want Checo seeing blue flags hanging high; Perez doesn't seem to have many friends in the drivers' room and has inherited the "erratic" label that previously attached to Grosjean.
Some sketchy driving further down the grid, especially by Ricciardo, Maldonado and Massa. But fair play to Massa for ignoring the team order; if you're fired anyway, why worry?
The championships may be done and dusted but today's results make the following ranks in the constructors very interesting. Would do the sport a world of good for Lotus to catch Merc for 3rd and Sauber to catch Force India for 6th, and on current form both results are possible.
Impressive drive from Grosjean, also Vettel, a bit less so from Webber, who I thought at the time wasn't producing quite the pace he needed to in his clear-air laps leading up to his final stop. Beyond that it's really hard to fault anyone in the top 7.
If Vettel's "keep him off me" radio call was meant for Perez he had every reason and right to want Checo seeing blue flags hanging high; Perez doesn't seem to have many friends in the drivers' room and has inherited the "erratic" label that previously attached to Grosjean.
Some sketchy driving further down the grid, especially by Ricciardo, Maldonado and Massa. But fair play to Massa for ignoring the team order; if you're fired anyway, why worry?
The championships may be done and dusted but today's results make the following ranks in the constructors very interesting. Would do the sport a world of good for Lotus to catch Merc for 3rd and Sauber to catch Force India for 6th, and on current form both results are possible.
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Was pretty much right with you until this comment. Now granted, he did not win the race, but last year at Abu Dhabi Vettel's drive was pretty insane. Granted also, a lot of drivers did not put up a real fight against his overtaking, but still, he started from the pits and finished on the podium. I really dislike the guy as a person. Socially, he's pretty clueless. He's completely immature and w*nkerish, but his consistency on the track is remarkable.
There have been plenty of other drives where he's had a few remarkable overtakes. Monza (from last year?) also comes to mind.
Freaking Hamilton...
BHRxRacer
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I never said he never drove a good race. I'll throw in Spa 2012 as well, if you'd like. A victory is something else. I want to believe that anyone that stands there thoroughly deserves it. That's why people still cheered Schumacher when he was dominant. We know he's good enough to win, faster car or not.Was pretty much right with you until this comment. Now granted, he did not win the race, but last year at Abu Dhabi Vettel's drive was pretty insane. Granted also, a lot of drivers did not put up a real fight against his overtaking, but still, he started from the pits and finished on the podium. I really dislike the guy as a person. Socially, he's pretty clueless. He's completely immature and w*nkerish, but his consistency on the track is remarkable.
There have been plenty of other drives where he's had a few remarkable overtakes. Monza (from last year?) also comes to mind.
Freaking Hamilton...
Also I just noticed where Lewis tucked his hands before he shook Sebastian's. Good work
FORGOT TO MENTION. Who was it that said we can't have a good race from start to finish without a safety car? Today's race wasn't THAT good but it kept you in your seat throughout. Without even a proper yellow flag, let alone safety car.
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- Spurgy777
Oh, don't get me wrong, I definitely think Senna's overrated, my point was that a lot of people who hate Vettel suck up to Senna and it just makes me laugh when they come up with the "he's bad because he only wins from the front" rubbish. As for the rest of your post, firstly JGreens really does appear to know very little about motorsport and comes out with all sorts of rubbish. Secondly, I'd be surprised if you weren't banned by the time I wake up tomorrow looking at the insults in your post, could probably have made your point without them tbh.
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BHRxRacer
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I agree, I have seen some Vettel haters praise the likes of Senna/Hamilton which I find a little hypocritical. If anything Hamilton shouldn't even belong to that group, at least not character-wise. I also somewhat agree that Jgreens is somewhat of a #$%!$ but what there was nothing wrong with what that guy quoted.
As for being banned, I've kept it civil for too long until everyone started calling ME names. I reported one of the posts a few days ago and asked the mods where exactly is the line is drawn and I got no response so I assum it's okay to call someone stupid, moron, asshat, uneducated, idiot, etc.
