2020 FIA Series Pre-Season Race Discussion

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by GTPNewsWire, Dec 30, 2019.

  1. praiano63

    praiano63 Premium

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    Still No lag reported by friends during FIA sessions.

    My EU account is quebracoco_84 and CA is wildisthewindo_O , not a secret at all.
    Parmalat ?? Don't know.Not my car.

    I just do what the game allow me to do , knowing that i'm not a pain for nobody else technically (lag).
    If PD don't want region to mix , so they have to write an algorithm for this.
    I'm just a gt player and i pay for this.
    That's all a have to say.
    Edit:
    I've read that my connection is direct fortaleza miami. Optic fiber
     
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  2. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    And yet it will be there. It is a literal physical impossibility for a player in South America to have lag-free races in Europe (even with the FIA event's fixed servers) because you're 6,000 internet miles away (12,000 because the data goes there and back) and the magic required to make a signal instantaneously transport itself across that distance doesn't exist.
    They did - and for this reason. There's now five regions instead of three, because South and North America have too much distance in terms of internet infrastructure between them, as do Oceania and Asia, creating lag.

    However they can't stop someone making an account in a different region and racing in it. Sony could, but it appears it doesn't want to.

    Fortaleza to Miami (Boca Raton, in fact), is a 6,560-mile cable called Monet (edit: Oh cool, it has a Wikipedia page). The fact it's fibre optic is pretty meaningless (they all are), but the fact it's a 13,000-mile round trip for your data instantly creates more than 100ms of latency.

    Also Miami is in North America, not Europe. To Europe it's Fortaleza-Lisbon on EllaLink (although that's only recently operational; I think it was Atlantis-2 before that, with literally a thousandth of the capacity), up through Cape Verde. By the time it reaches the Sony server in Amsterdam, that's a solid 6,000 miles too - or 12,000 there and back.

    Check the infrastructure ping yourself if you like:
    https://wondernetwork.com/pings/

    Distance creates latency (or ping), latency means lag. Distance = lag.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  3. barak181

    barak181

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    I was right about a couple of things: Nations was a wreckfest and it was a lot of fun. T1 and the first chicane were bigger messes than T1 at Autopolis and Brands Hatch combined. I got punted twice lap 1 - I actually pitted because my car was so damaged - and slid off a couple more times dealing with dirty tires. I think my strategy worked for me - 6M/7H/5S. I finished 12th w/ 21 pts. All this with one of my dogs insisting on using my left arm as a pillow.

    I might go again. We'll see.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
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  4. praiano63

    praiano63 Premium

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    Really ?


    Anyway 0.2 latency or not , we are able to play together my friends and me without problems.
    This is a fact.
    Anoying is playing with people flying randomly all around you.
    I'm not.
     
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  5. GTWolverine

    GTWolverine

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    Had to do 2 races again tonight. I hadn't driven the track in a day, and never in full race conditions with tires and fuel being a factor. I hopped in the 3rd time slot, qualified 12th, finished 15th (and somehow not worse) after numerous death wobbles on exit curbs, and at least 1 spin. Did some practice in between rounds, and put the car 5th on the grid for the next race. I rocketed up to 2nd at the start, and held that for the first stint on softs. I got undercut by the guy behind me when I pitted for mediums at the end of lap 5 and was down to 3rd. After 7 laps on the mediums I pitted for the hards on lap 12, then pitted a lap later to put on softs again to the end. I couldn't tame this twitchy death-mobile on hard tires, and I'm not really good at saving tires either, so I was forced to do a 3-stop. That dumped me down the order to 7th and 139 points, which replaced a lower-points race from earlier this season.

    Overall, it's an ok result. I thought I'd be better in this car, since I'm usually good at handling "difficult", yet high-grip cars (the karts, Red Bull Junior, Lewis Hamilton's F1 car, and the F1500T are some of my favorite cars in this game, and usually give me my best results in an FIA season if they come up), but the same unpredictability on the limit that I experienced on the DS4 is still there now that I have my G29... This result is especially ironic since I was expecting terrible results from last weekend's races, but ended up with really good ones. I'll probably skip tomorrow's race, because my lack of tire-saving skills is gonna do nothing but sink my DR.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
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  6. CurbHog

    CurbHog

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    I feel I can do a one stopper in the Aston ..
    Start on RS for 4 laps and then RH until the end.
    I see others mentioning Mediums for a third stint ... maybe 4/4/4 ?
     
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  7. Winnie847

    Winnie847

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    I was overdue for a win at Nations, it had been awhile. I think this was 3rd split, second to last slot of the night. Qualified on pole with a mediocre lap, and ran a cautious race. Went with 9M/3H/6S while saving fuel. I think mediums on the first stint was the right choice because even though people behind me were on softs, the fighting and dirty air cost them too much tire life/pace early on and after a few laps my mediums were just as fast. I almost didn’t enter this round because I was worried about screwing up other people’s race. I ran about 10 laps in a practice lobby last night before bed, then I worked all day today and got home 4 minutes before race start. I really do love high downforce cars.

     
  8. R1600Turbo

    R1600Turbo Premium

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    Good luck on the one stop, not going to work for me. I am thinking 5/5/4 (it's 14 laps) or 5/4/5
     
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  9. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    Never driven the GT-R around Catalunya. Not sure how it'll hold up. I know the RC F '17 is pretty nimble around there. The Big Lex mixed with the best of them, each time this combo came up. At least, hope the GT-R top end can compensate.

    Edit: GT-R is horrible. Really weird. Started 2nd( 2 seconds slower than the leader). First stint on RS was okay. Handling is terrible. An RC F '16 was smacking me up and down in the cornering. I could only get it on corner exit. and straights. Miss the RC F '17. *sniff*

    Pitted with the leader(NSX) at lap 5. we both switched to RH. Some players started on RM. I had a nice gap. but the RC F behind was eating into it from 3.5 seconds down to 1 second at lap 10. I pitted again for RS. They didn't last 3 laps. A big fat joke. I pitted again for RS on lap 12. Must have been a bad batch, jeez... Caught back up to the RC F, finished 3rd.

    I get this. but I was the only Nissan. :confused:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
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  10. pennanton

    pennanton

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    So the formula is simple in principle, tough in execution: Start at the front, on the fast tyre, hards after 4-5, softs after 10-11 = a reasonable run. Got a 2nd and 150-odd points first race. I reckon that'll do me.
     
  11. Lion-Face

    Lion-Face Premium

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    Can I hop the chicane? Or will the chicane hop me....

     
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  12. skyline1683

    skyline1683

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    So I’ve raced him in the EU nations and Manu cup probably the last month or so and although I can’t say I’ve seen any lag.
    What I have noticed is if I’ve been behind him I don’t get the slim stream at the normal position of 1.5 seconds especially nations were we in same car so bop is not the reason. I seem to get the slip closer to 1.0 -.1.2 seconds is this the latency you explain in the data time ?
     
  13. timekiller001

    timekiller001

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    Guys, don't you think that discussion is a bit wrong in this topic?
     
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  14. LVS_1986

    LVS_1986

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    Hi! In this whole discussion about multicounts my opinion is that we all should follow the RULES. Like someone mentioned PD can ban for participating in different regions at least in FIA. Its all about respect and how you treat other people, very simple. Even if youre frenchman living in brasil and loving canadian people;)
     
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  15. SweatyC

    SweatyC

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    Well that was a total disaster. Paid the price for only practising in the 'practice' section with no tire wear etc and thinking i was quick. Race conditions i was all over the place. Qualified last trying to get used to the massive difference in grip. Did make my way up through the pack into 9th after a couple of laps but then got punted off. After that i just couldn't get used to the track and didn't even finish the race before the time ran out. :banghead: Finished 13th out of 15 finishers.
     
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  16. pantherjag

    pantherjag

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    A bit late in the day but here's my take on strategy for round 7 manufacturers.



    Hows your tyre saving??
     
  17. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    Yep - and thus not relevant to your connection to Europe. EllaLink is your connection to Europe - which I think replaced the horrific Atlantis-2 (EllaLink runs 40TB/s; Atlantis-2 ran 50GB/s), although I'm not totally sure on that one. Atlantis-2 may have been voice telephony only.
    There's no "not" in here. You are a minimum of 200ms away from Europe. That's an actual fact, governed by the physical limitations of the universe. I've shown you the maps and linked you to the global infrastructure ping statistics (which are live).
    That's an opinion - "problems" is subjective. A fact is that your data has to make a 12,000-mile (or more; EMEA includes Saudi Arabia, South Africa, and Siberia) round trip and due to the physical limitations of our universe - the whole universe - that takes time. In fact it takes around 200ms. There is literally nothing that can avoid that - and if you can, there's a Nobel Prize in Physics in it for you, and they'll just close it up after that because you'll have cracked superluminal communication.

    I explained in this post why it is that you may not commonly see any serious negative effects of that, but purely because of the latency caused by distance you are much more likely to cause them than someone actually in Europe, all other things being equal. The fixed servers in FIA events also iron things out a bit compared to P2P in lobbies and Daily Races.

    If I drive in the North America events I will also not commonly see any serious negative effects, but purely because of the latency caused by distance I am much more likely to cause them than someone actually in North America - with the caveat that it depends on where in North America they are; I'd probably be closer to the server in Virginia in data terms than someone in Vancouver would be - Hibernia/GTT Express has a 58.95ms latency between London and New York, so chances are I'm barely 100ms from Virginia.

    Edit: 10ms difference between London-Washington and Vancouver-Washington or LA-Washington:

    upload_2020-1-22_12-21-18.png

    Add on my distance to London and 100ms is about ballpark.

    Edit: I forgot the non-cons! Honolulu is just over 100ms right now (I guess there's a whacking great pipe because US military). There's no servers in Alaska, but Alaska United is about another 1000mi on from Vancouver so around 100ms wouldn't be unreasonable.

    Poor home internet setup is indeed a problem. I've seen UK drivers teleporting all over the place, and it's pretty likely they're using a wireless (or tethered mobile) connection in the middle of rural nowhere with no thought given to optimising their connection. Their network test chart must look like an old CRT television when you yank the plug out of the back.

    I can only imagine what it'd be like if they were also 12,000 miles away running an EU account.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  18. praiano63

    praiano63 Premium

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    Cynical answer really . I've never claimed something like this. You can spread your science the way you want , you know about this and it's fine.
    But , it's still not prejudicial for the others regions when i race there. Fact.
     
  19. GTWolverine

    GTWolverine

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    Tire saving? What's that? :lol:
    I'm likely gonna skip this one... I usually can't even get Mediums to last as long as some people can get the Softs to last...
     
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  20. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    I have no idea what's "cynical" about it, or what it has to do with what you've claimed anywhere.

    Data can only go so fast. It cannot go any faster. That means it takes time to travel distances. That means that the bigger the distances, the more time it takes. That's what latency is - the time between data leaving one place and arriving at another. More distance = more latency.

    This is how the universe works. Superluminal communication (like Star Trek's 'subspace') would solve it, and more besides as it would be revolutionary, but by all current knowledge it's impossible. Without it, distance = latency.

    No, opinion - and not one I care about in any way.

    A fact would be that data cannot reach GT Sport's datacentre in Europe (Amsterdam) from your console in any less than 200ms because of the distance it has to travel due to the routing of the global internet infrastructure. GT Sport's netcode may mask some of that latency as I explained in the post where I explained how it works, but it's always there because that is how the universe works.

    Do what you like with the information - I don't care - but know you are always more likely to cause issues in a lobby because of how far your data has to travel and how long that takes compared to users in Western Europe. Others in the EMEA region may be worse, because the EMEA region is enormous. There may also be people with shoddy home networks who are worse too, because making it difficult for complete data packets to leave the home network and head out to the internet slows it down - creating more latency.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  21. watto79

    watto79

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    Hows your tyre saving??
    Probably not good enough, especially at a tyre muncher like Catalunya :lol:

    Thanks for the guide. If I qualify top half I'll go 4S/5S/5H (may switch around the 2nd and 3rd stints depending on how the race has developed). If I qualify near the back I'll start on Hards and go 4H/5S/5S.

    Must. Not. Overdrive. Car.
     
  22. praiano63

    praiano63 Premium

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    You're repeating yourself. Waste of time. I will not do this.
    For cynical check any english , french or portuguese dictionary. The definition is all the same.
     
  23. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    I am fully aware of the meaning of the word, which is why I'm baffled by its use in this context.

    You seem to be taking the entire concept of latency as a personal slight against your character because someone (who wasn't me) said you shouldn't race in FIA events in different regions because of lag. I don't care whether you do or not, I'm simply pointing out that the laws of physics dictate that you will always be 200ms or more behind and there is nothing you can do or say that will change that. I don't care about you, physics doesn't care about you. This is how it is.

    One day it may not be. Right now it is.

    You can accept that, or you can continue to have a pop at me for no reason (which will be in my inbox, and not in this thread), but it won't change things.
     
  24. LLOYDZELITE69

    LLOYDZELITE69 Premium

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    You’re being extremely arrogant and stubborn and just assuming what other people think, just don’t do it. Talk about losing respect for a driver that can’t see beyond himself. Plus, racing in different regions ‘If caught.’ Results in a ban of your account and/or that specific account can’t participate in an event any further. Lagging or not. It’s simply not allowed anyways.
     
  25. Granadier

    Granadier

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    For real. I think this can be the guiding principle of tonight's race for everyone. It's gonna be a race of moderation.
     
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  26. praiano63

    praiano63 Premium

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    I can't accept something i've never refuted. If yes , show me where... Or not.
    Obviously yours technicals statements are true.
    But this amount of lag is not enough to cause any problem or palpable differences.
    My performances are exactly the same in all regions , also the way i interact with other players.
    This is what i can say.

    Go to heaven.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2020
  27. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    Show me where I said you can't accept it. Seriously, you're reading things that just aren't there.
    It absolutely is. Really the upper bound for seamless gameplay is 20ms, for smooth gameplay it's 50ms, and for good gameplay it's 100ms. 200ms is merely acceptable. All it would take is an unpredictable movement - a divebomb, or a spin - and your car will jitter and swivel about on everyone else's screens.
    That would be somewhere between true enough and fundamentally impossible, and it depends on what kind of race and who's in it.

    Your data distance to the extremes of your own region may be a few thousand miles. To North America, 8,000 miles is the start point and for Europe it will be 12,000. To Australia and Asia would be in excess of 16,000 miles just to get ashore on the continents.

    In P2P - Daily Races - the variance of where users actually are will make no two races the same. If you're racing 15 people in an EMEA lobby in Spain, you're probably as good as if in an CSA lobby with players in Costa Rica and Colombia. If there's players in Irkutsk and Bahrain, it's going to suck for someone.

    With fixed servers in the FIA races, it'll be ameliorated a lot - Europe (Amsterdam) and NA (Virginia) will be about the same, with NA better, and both will be far better than Asia (Tokyo) and Oceania (I... think it's in Sydney). To players in CSA there'll be no perceptible issue. Here's the latency between Sao Paulo and the four cities where Sony's FIA servers are located:

    upload_2020-1-22_15-38-9.png

    Asia will be bad. Oceania will be very bad - 20 frames of the game guessing where your car is will elapse before it updates to where it should be. What do the players you race in Australia and New Zealand see of your car?

    We saw in this thread the other day the result - a lag punt - of a player in Australia against an Australian player who races from Europe.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  28. GTWolverine

    GTWolverine

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    I'm normally much better at driving the high-downforce cars than I am at Gr. 3 and Gr. 4, but the Gr. 2 cars seem to be the exception to that trend.
     
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  29. praiano63

    praiano63 Premium

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    I have all my history of FIA racing results as proof.
    I race in all 3 regions at the same level and always with the same results , considering a very little margin up and down. Rooms between 200 to 280 points depending of slot.
    Sometime with better scores out of my playing region ... Or not.
    As you can see on those pictures . I have a year of results like this , buildind solid proofs that there is absolutely no sensible difference of performance due to lag.
    IMG_20200122_130840.jpg IMG_20200122_130828.jpg
     
  30. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    How fast you can drive has nothing to do with lag. There's also five regions in the FIA events, and there have been for a year. They are: Europe, Middle East and Africa; Central and South America; North America; Asia; Oceania.

    Even if you can get away with doing FIA races on fixed servers in CSA, NA and EMEA (in descending order of how stable you'll appear to others), GT Sport's netcode is in no way solid enough to allow you to race in Asia or Oceania without some serious glitching on other people's screens.
     
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