2024 US Presidential Election Thread

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They launched a robocall campaign during the 2020 election targeting thousands of predominantly Black voters in Ohio, Minnesota, Chicago, Pennsylvania, Detroit, and Virginia. The recorded call contained lies about mail-in voting and featured a woman’s voice reading this script:

"Hi, this is Tamika Taylor from Project 1599, the civil rights organization founded by Jack Burkman and Jacob Wohl. Mail-in voting sounds great, but did you know that if you vote by mail, your personal information will be part of a public database that will be used by police departments to track down old warrants and be used by credit card companies to collect outstanding debts? The CDC is even pushing to use records for mail-in voting to track people for mandatory vaccines. Don’t be finessed into giving your private information to the man. Stay safe and beware of vote by mail."

"Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman were found liable by a federal judge in New York in March 2023 for targeting Black voters and sending false and threatening messages intended to discourage voting."

“The right to vote is the cornerstone of our democracy, and it belongs to everyone. We will not allow anyone to threaten that right,” James said in a statement on the settlement. “Wohl and Burkman orchestrated a depraved and disinformation-ridden campaign to intimidate Black voters in an attempt to sway the election in favor of their preferred candidate.”

Throw them in jail and seize their assets.
 
"Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman were found liable by a federal judge in New York in March 2023 for targeting Black voters and sending false and threatening messages intended to discourage voting."

They launched a robocall campaign during the 2020 election targeting thousands of predominantly Black voters in Ohio, Minnesota, Chicago, Pennsylvania, Detroit, and Virginia. The recorded call contained lies about mail-in voting and featured a woman’s voice reading this script:

"Hi, this is Tamika Taylor from Project 1599, the civil rights organization founded by Jack Burkman and Jacob Wohl. Mail-in voting sounds great, but did you know that if you vote by mail, your personal information will be part of a public database that will be used by police departments to track down old warrants and be used by credit card companies to collect outstanding debts? The CDC is even pushing to use records for mail-in voting to track people for mandatory vaccines. Don’t be finessed into giving your private information to the man. Stay safe and beware of vote by mail."

“The right to vote is the cornerstone of our democracy, and it belongs to everyone. We will not allow anyone to threaten that right,” James said in a statement on the settlement. “Wohl and Burkman orchestrated a depraved and disinformation-ridden campaign to intimidate Black voters in an attempt to sway the election in favor of their preferred candidate.”

"The party of Lincoln".
 
Note that TikTok helped Biden out here but he still wants to help ban it if the bill goes through.
Please don't tell me they are going to ban TikTok, I just had my home remodeled to accommodate TikTok videos

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I still find the whole "ban Tiktok" thing weird. They're just mad that their home grown solutions for harvesting user data and selling it to overseas regimes aren't as popular with the younger generations. When your frontmen are Elon Musk and Robot Zuckerberg it's no wonder the kids don't take you seriously.
 
I still find the whole "ban Tiktok" thing weird. They're just mad that their home grown solutions for harvesting user data and selling it to overseas regimes aren't as popular with the younger generations. When your frontmen are Elon Musk and Robot Zuckerberg it's no wonder the kids don't take you seriously.
I think it's more that TikTok is a tool for the Chinese government to collect data on people. I don't think the US would care if it wasn't an enemy.

And I kind of get it too. I'm not allowed to have TikTok on my devices because of work. The number one source of potential network security breaches in our health system is China (Russia is 2) so the last thing they want is to give them another method to gather information. Thankfully, both the Chinese and Russians aren't very good so we thwart them but still all it takes is one successful attempt to completely sink a healthcare system.

The US isn't going to ban TikTok either, they're just trying to force the Chinese to sell it. It's all a big ruse to make someone a lot of money instead of actually protecting national security.
 
I think it's more that TikTok is a tool for the Chinese government to collect data on people. I don't think the US would care if it wasn't an enemy.
That's what they say, but when Russia uses Facebook to do similar things the response is much more muted. I don't doubt that governments can use any and all social media platforms to collect data on citizens in other countries if they wish.

The reality is that even if they're not, that data is all for sale. Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Google, LinkedIn, Youtube, whatever.
And I kind of get it too. I'm not allowed to have TikTok on my devices because of work. The number one source of potential network security breaches in our health system is China (Russia is 2) so the last thing they want is to give them another method to gather information. Thankfully, both the Chinese and Russians aren't very good so we thwart them but still all it takes is one successful attempt to completely sink a healthcare system.
I've worked in places with that policy, and I think the policy should really be all social media. Modern social media is designed to gather, use and distribute user information. Tiktok being Chinese owned if anything makes it a worse spying tool. It's too obvious.
The US isn't going to ban TikTok either, they're just trying to force the Chinese to sell it. It's all a big ruse to make someone a lot of money instead of actually protecting national security.
This is what I think is actually going on too. "National security" certainly could be a component of it, but protectionism is probably the main motivator really. It's funny because there have been short form video apps since before Tiktok/Musical.ly, but they just never took off like Tiktok did.

If you can't win, steal. Very Trumpian. :D
 
I think it's more that TikTok is a tool for the Chinese government to collect data on people.
So privacy laws. And apply them to American and non-Chinese foreign companies in addition to "tool(s) for the Chinese government." A bill of attainder is throwing the baby out and it tramples Americans' freedoms.

I think people probably shouldn't use TikTok but I also don't want the government banning it.

Tiktok being Chinese owned if anything makes it a worse spying tool. It's too obvious.
It's like Boris and Natasha as Russian agents. Not exactly inconspicuous.
 
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Redirected.


How close is it without that?
It depends on what Biden does until November. I'm closer to voting for him than not, but getting the US involved in offensive action against Iran because Israel feels the need to kick the hornet's nest and then run to big brother is a hard pass for me. This is especially true since the president is the commander of our armed forces and has the ability to or not to deploy them. There are many things that aren't Biden's fault that he gets blamed for, but sending our troops to fight a war in Iran is something he can control. Plus, getting involved in a war with Iran means Biden would be contributing to skyrocketing fuel prices and increased terrorism. Those things will happen without the US involvement, but Biden wouldn't be to blame.

If he manages to broker a ceasefire deal, even one that seems iffy at best, he'll have earned my vote since he'll have stopped a really bloody war. If he merely keeps us out of the war, I'll be good with that too, but a ceasefire would be better.

If Biden does order the military to attack Iran, I'll be voting for either a third-party candidate who is not RFK Jr. or just not voting at all.
 
It depends on what Biden does until November. I'm closer to voting for him than not, but getting the US involved in offensive action against Iran because Israel feels the need to kick the hornet's nest and then run to big brother is a hard pass for me. This is especially true since the president is the commander of our armed forces and has the ability to or not to deploy them. There are many things that aren't Biden's fault that he gets blamed for, but sending our troops to fight a war in Iran is something he can control. Plus, getting involved in a war with Iran means Biden would be contributing to skyrocketing fuel prices and increased terrorism. Those things will happen without the US involvement, but Biden wouldn't be to blame.

If he manages to broker a ceasefire deal, even one that seems iffy at best, he'll have earned my vote since he'll have stopped a really bloody war. If he merely keeps us out of the war, I'll be good with that too, but a ceasefire would be better.

If Biden does order the military to attack Iran, I'll be voting for either a third-party candidate who is not RFK Jr. or just not voting at all.
I probably would still vote for Biden even under those circumstances, just because Trump is that much of a risk to me. But that would be a HUGE stain on his presidency in my opinion. I hope he can just keep us out of it. I'd rather fund Ukraine than Israel. But definitely I would rather fund Ukraine than actually fight Israel's fight.
 
In a two party system there a certain disadvantage to being in power in situations like these. Every decision is in some sense wrong, so really it mostly comes down to trying to make the least worst decisions possible and hoping that people will understand that and not get too mad. The opposition party can stand back and lob criticism at every action, and even if they're queried about what they would have done there's no requirement that their answers be practically feasible or even true.

I think it's reasonable to consider what Trump/the Republican party would do put in a similar situation. Even if Biden were to go to war backing Israel, I struggle to imagine Trump making better decisions in that same situation. And I don't really think there's any plausible situations where the US should be going to war backing Israel at all.

There is something to be said for voicing your disapproval of the system with a no-vote - if enough people do it then it's a very strong signal that the system is broken. An election where only 10% of the population votes and they vote 90% for one candidate is not a democracy, no matter how it's dressed up. But there's also a danger that if voting doesn't drop to "obviously broken" levels that a no-vote is just a vote for "I agree with the majority, whatever that turns out to be".
 
Every decision is in some sense wrong, so really it mostly comes down to trying to make the least worst decisions possible and hoping that people will understand that and not get too mad.
While this is certainly true, going to war in support of a genocidal state is incredibly egregious. There are very few circumstances where I could excuse it, such as Congress declaring war instead of Biden doing the roundabout thing where he orders attacks without it being a war. The other would be if Iran were to launch nuclear weapons since if that was the case, we'd have to act in order to not have the Middle East be a radioactive wasteland.
I think it's reasonable to consider what Trump/the Republican party would do put in a similar situation. Even if Biden were to go to war backing Israel, I struggle to imagine Trump making better decisions in that same situation. And I don't really think there's any plausible situations where the US should be going to war backing Israel at all.
I probably would still vote for Biden even under those circumstances, just because Trump is that much of a risk to me.
Honestly, I'm not sure what the current group of Republicans would do. They're so nationalistic now that I don't know if they would get involved in a war in the Middle East since they would rather have the troops here to shoot Mexicans or something. I know Republicans "support" Israel, but there's also a significant number that believe Jews are running the New World Order or whatever, so they might not want to support them. 20 year ago with Bush, I would've said we'd absolutely be going in with Team America, but now, not so much.
There is something to be said for voicing your disapproval of the system with a no-vote - if enough people do it then it's a very strong signal that the system is broken. An election where only 10% of the population votes and they vote 90% for one candidate is not a democracy, no matter how it's dressed up. But there's also a danger that if voting doesn't drop to "obviously broken" levels that a no-vote is just a vote for "I agree with the majority, whatever that turns out to be".
And I hate that that is the outcome. Democracy means we should have choices, but when your options are bad to worse, it kind of defeats the point. I mean, in this election, you can either choose the old man who's showing signs of dementia and is probably a criminal since he's a career politician or the old man who's delusional and is definitely a criminal. Like, can we have a choice that isn't an old man who has mental and/or legal issues (probable or otherwise)?
 
It's so funny how they keep wanting to divert this case back to Biden & his DOJ as behind it. TMU, the case work started back with Bragg's predecessor, Cyrus Vance Jr. before Biden was even elected. More so, the chain of events with the evidence behind this seems glaringly obvious without "Biden's interference".

Trump & Cohen denied any affair, yet Cohen still paid her $130,000. Cohen claimed he made the payment personally without reimbursement, yet Rudy would say out loud Trump did reimburse him. Trump would claim he did not know the specifics about Cohen's actions, yet Trump admits to reimbursing him. Cohen goes to jail for campaign finance violations over this, to which Trump responds the reimbursement was done with personal money. Now, Trump makes an argument the whole thing was done to keep Melania from finding out, but Cohen recorded him wanting to make the hush-money payment after the election, clearly indicating he was concerned more for his public image & probably stiff her on the payment afterwards.

Every excuse brought forth in this case has been undone in time & constantly points to the allegation that he did in fact using campaign money illegally since that's the point we're at now: "Ok, I did do all these things, but not with campaign money". And in routine fashion, Trump may have already undone that claim. Apparently, during a video of him speaking outside the courthouse, he made some statement about an accountant having performed the payment to which some legal analysts believe he may have just admitted to knowing it was done with campaign money.

Regardless, this moron & his goons have no reason to blame Biden for any sort of action. He's completely brought all this upon himself by constantly lying about it & changing tune. I'm sure the excuse down the road will be, "I did use campaign money to pay her off, but I was also President & Presidents are immune from any & every crime".
 
It's so funny how they keep wanting to divert this case back to Biden & his DOJ as behind it. TMU, the case work started back with Bragg's predecessor, Cyrus Vance Jr. before Biden was even elected. More so, the chain of events with the evidence behind this seems glaringly obvious without "Biden's interference".

Trump & Cohen denied any affair, yet Cohen still paid her $130,000. Cohen claimed he made the payment personally without reimbursement, yet Rudy would say out loud Trump did reimburse him. Trump would claim he did not know the specifics about Cohen's actions, yet Trump admits to reimbursing him. Cohen goes to jail for campaign finance violations over this, to which Trump responds the reimbursement was done with personal money. Now, Trump makes an argument the whole thing was done to keep Melania from finding out, but Cohen recorded him wanting to make the hush-money payment after the election, clearly indicating he was concerned more for his public image & probably stiff her on the payment afterwards.

Every excuse brought forth in this case has been undone in time & constantly points to the allegation that he did in fact using campaign money illegally since that's the point we're at now: "Ok, I did do all these things, but not with campaign money". And in routine fashion, Trump may have already undone that claim. Apparently, during a video of him speaking outside the courthouse, he made some statement about an accountant having performed the payment to which some legal analysts believe he may have just admitted to knowing it was done with campaign money.

Regardless, this moron & his goons have no reason to blame Biden for any sort of action. He's completely brought all this upon himself by constantly lying about it & changing tune. I'm sure the excuse down the road will be, "I did use campaign money to pay her off, but I was also President & Presidents are immune from any & every crime".
He wasn't president when he made that payment though. Either way, he really needs to learn to stop talking because he might incriminate himself in court if he continues to do so.
 
He wasn't president when he made that payment though. Either way, he really needs to learn to stop talking because he might incriminate himself in court if he continues to do so.
Good catch. I forgot the affair was way back in 2006 & the affair was coming to light in 2016.
 
Today I learnt:
  1. TikTok is great except when Snorleone tried to ban it and force its sale.
  2. It's all Biden's fault except for all the Republicans who also voted for the bill.
  3. There are young people on TruthSocial.
Regardless of how you feel about the Chinese social media and vertical video platform, isn't it concerning that a presidential candidate is acting so nakedly beholdenly towards one of his benefactors?

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Apparently almost nobody responded to Trump's calls on "Truth" Social to show up in Lower Manhattan and yell their support for him.

He attributes this to a "plot". On the other hand, it could be that only having about 6 million registered users results in a somewhat limited "reach".
 
Apparently almost nobody responded to Trump's calls on "Truth" Social to show up in Lower Manhattan and yell their support for him.

He attributes this to a "plot". On the other hand, it could be that only having about 6 million registered users results in a somewhat limited "reach".
From the New York Times - "Over the last week, demonstrators visibly identifying as supporting Mr. Trump — with red hats or clothing, or banners and flags — have never totaled more than a dozen. On most days, the number of people total in the portion of the park designated for protesters for or against Mr. Trump has never been more than two or three dozen. They have included tourists, locals coming to gawk, more than a few supporters of Mr. Biden, and proponents of conspiracy theories ..."
 
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What's the worst case scenario for Don in this trial? I have a hard time believing he would be sentenced to anything more than paying a fine. I also don't think it damages his credibility with conservatives at all. Maybe some independents who somehow haven't noticed he's been a con man his whole life will wake up and be discouraged from voting for him, but I just don't see this case doing much of anything in the long run.
 
What's the worst case scenario for Don in this trial?
An obituary.

Assuming that he doesn't win or can't contest the election, I could see some sort of very hushed-up house arrest where he's internally exiled to his toy town in Mar-A-Lago.
 
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