Cockpit view and adjustable field of view. Is it a must in GT7?

[Johnnypenso]

There is some debate in the Cars Ready for PS4 thread about cockpit view and adjustable Field of View in GT7. Some think a cockpit view isn't necessary at all, some only play with a cockpit view making standard cars pretty much dead to them. How do you feel about it? Is cockpit your go to view? Have you ever played a game with an adjustable field of view and found it a valuable tool? Below is a couple of videos that show a common sim racing setup with realistic Fields of View, the steering/driver animation disabled and the real wheel in a similar position as the sim wheel would be. Does this appeal to you or are you set on using another view forever?

From DigiProst, a frequent contributor to GTP:


Possibly the most exciting 9 minutes of cockpit view you'll ever see

 

[Johnnypenso]

Below you'll see what changing the FOV does in a static image. The views are in order of my native 40 to 50 to 60 to 70 in another game with a vertical FOV calculation as opposed to GT's horizontal calculation. Same effect it would just be a higher number in GT. A very high F.O.V. allows you to see more of the visuals on screen but also produces a "fish eye" effect that distorts images but gives a huge sense of speed. Lower values produce a more realistic sized image on the screen that conforms to how you would see things in real life and slows down the action as a result, but limits visibility and sense of speed.

The video below from Empty Box is long and wordy but he does a great job of explaining it.


View attachment 300725 View attachment 300726 View attachment 300726 View attachment 300727

View attachment 300729 View attachment 300730 View attachment 300731 View attachment 300732

Here's the always entertaining, but wordy, Mr. Empty Box, who pretty much nails the entire FOV question in one video:

 

[NixxxoN]

It should be improved over the GT5/GT6 ones because those make not much sense within the actual driver's POV

 

[JoaoSilva]

There is a "sort-of not really" FOV changer in GT6 but it only 2 preset levels , and you can't really costumize the FOV to your likings. As @NixxxoN was saying before was that when he drives he only sees the road ahead and not the dials , but if that's his concern , GT6 already him covered , because you can set the cockpit view to "Narrow" or "Narrowest" mode , on those 2 modes , the camera only points at the road ahead.

 

[JoaoSilva]

@NixxxoN notice how you can't almost see the steering wheel at all.

 

[NixxxoN]

You guys realise that very few people can afford a triple screen right?

 

[JoaoSilva]

You guys realise that very few people can afford a triple screen right?

you don't need a triple screen to get this level of zoom , as i said before there's an option in GT6 already to zoom-in like that in cockpit view , the video just so happened to be of a guy with triple screens.

Also in GT you need 3 PS3's , 3 copies of GT6 , the screens and wheel to have a setup like this...

 

[NixxxoN]

you don't need a triple screen to get this level of zoom , as i said before there's an option in GT6 already to zoom-in like that in cockpit view , the video just so happened to be of a guy with triple screens.

Also in GT you need 3 PS3 , 3 copies of GT6 , the screens and wheel to have a setup like this...

With this level of zoom and without triple screen you dont even see the mirrors.
Anyway it still appears to be too far back for a normal view. Not a good camera.
As I said if you have a driving licence and you driver your car, you can see far far better. Do you have it?

 

[JoaoSilva]

With this level of zoom and without triple screen you dont even see the mirrors.
Anyway it still appears to be too far back for a normal view. Not a good camera.
As I said if you have a driving licence and you driver your car, you can see far far better. Do you have it?

Of course you cant see the mirrors because it's zommed-in , you can look to the sides in GT and see the mirrors if you want to , you can't have everything .

if you want a more realistic experience in the camera departement you probably have to find another game , i'll doubt PD would bother with adding more cameras.

I'll have it in a year or two , but i sure have driven before lots of times.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You guys realise that very few people can afford a triple screen right?

You don't need a triple screen to run an accurate F.O.V. and cockpit view although I have to admit, it looks enticing. I don't have triple screens and I've used nothing but cockpit in every game I played in the last few years except GT.

Note: I added some pics and a video to the second post that illustrates a changing F.O.V and how it works.

 

[NixxxoN]

Thats some really nice setup that this guy DigiProst has but obviously its very expensive and we should talk here about the general setup of the average player which is about 1 screen and 1 sterring wheel, and thats about it.

Of course you cant see the mirrors because it's zommed-in , you can look to the sides in GT and see the mirrors if you want to , you can't have everything .

The best would be the hood cam with the gauges and the upper mirror WITH A SINGLE SCREEN, we should talk about single screen because its what most people have.

If we talk about triple screens, then the setup of project cars video up there is great, but I repeat, the vast majority of players wont have a triple screen.

 

[JoaoSilva]

so , just remove the steering wheel from the cockpit view?

 

[lancia delta hf]

You guys realise that very few people can afford a triple screen right?

You dont need tripple screen, I play with one screen and i dont notice the steering wheel because im looking way ahead down the road whlst still feeling like im inside the car, I do not understand why you are trying to convince people who only play in cockpit view that it is not nesacerry for GT7. Do you realise if gt7 shipped with no cockpits gamers like myself would not go anywhere near it? Now i do enjoy bonnet view and bumper view on some cars as i like to alternate between views for periods. But no cockpits shows lack of effort to put out real quality

With this level of zoom and without triple screen you dont even see the mirrors.
Anyway it still appears to be too far back for a normal view. Not a good camera.
As I said if you have a driving licence and you driver your car, you can see far far better. Do you have it?

You dont see the mirrors in bonnet view either

 

[Johnnypenso]

Moved from GT6 Forum:

In the context of the thread, eg "cars in GT6", your reason for them not to be included because other PS4 games won't have such cars, seems pretty arbitrary. What if a game came out (eg Grid 4) also having cars with no modelled interiors?

IMO, interiors are standard feature in all racing, driving games moving forward as are spectacular visuals for example. There is no other game I am aware of that does not include an interior view with every single car and this has been true for many years. Call it an industry standard if you will. Some of us race exclusively in cockpit view and games without a cockpit view are not on my shopping list and that would include Grid 4 if that were the case. Once you "convert" to cockpit view it's hard to use any other view IMO. It sort of feels like you are riding on top of the car rather than driving it, which is sort of what you are doing isn't it? There's nothing wrong with that if that's what you prefer, but if you were dead set on hood view for example and GT7 came out with cockpit only, would you still buy it? Same argument really.

Whatever you think, no matter what, the interior camera in GT6 is terrible and nowhere near realistic. It much needs to be improved in order to be use able. I completely refuse to use it because its just terrible to use to play, its that simple.

Definitely. We need more view adjustments from within the cockpit, seating is one example, the ability to move left/right/forwards/backwards/up/down etc. A virtual mirror is a must. Virtual left/right mirrors at the bottom of the screen would be a nice bonus. We all have different setups and preferences and a game as popular as this should feature enough adjustments to make every player happy.

 

[JoaoSilva]

the problem with a FOV slider on console (I think) is that if the FOV is higher , you will see more stuff on-screen , thus making the console process more information and possibly slowing it down.

 

[Zer0]

It's all about how big is your screen and the distance you sit on front of it.

Anyone that know that can experience realistic views in GT even with one screen.





More options are always welcome but trying to match a 1:1 scale from your sitting position is more important for a realistic sense of driving and control than having tons of adjustments to play on a small screen, even 3 small screens are not a good solution if they can't match a real scale. I remember that I discussed this problem in GT4 related to the advantages of playing with big projected screens.

Of course if you have 3 big screens properly 1:1 matched it will be even more reallistic or natural.

 

[05XR8]

In car view is not a neccessity. Thing is, I have enjoyed it since ToCA Touring cars. So, by now, PD should have perfected it as much time as they have spent gathering information and racing in real events.

The VGTs seem like I'm being prepared for more of the same with no interiors. I prefer in car view, but the way things are right now, I'd say cockpit view is not a must for GT7.

 

[JoaoSilva]

A proper simulator has cockpit view , period. If PD doesn't deliver that on all cars by GT7 , i'll be dissapointed.

 

[Zuku]

If done right I'll play with it in F1 2012 I didn't like one of the options as it felt like I was on the actual ground.

Vs another view I could see better, and then there was DiRt 3 which felt like I got all the action of being the person driving the car.

Typing on the phone I hate it lol.

 

[SVX]

The large appeal of simulation racing games is the huge amount of customization and tweaking of settings. Adjustable POV is a part of that, and it can greatly influence the immersion to make it just right for the player. Hell, I mean, even GTAV has it...

 

[Pseudopod]

These two things are pretty different. Properly adjustable FoV is extremely easy to implement, while cockpit view for all cars takes possibly thousands of times more time to implement.

While it is understandable (although still a questionable decision) to not include cockpit views for all cars, it is simply idiotic and embarrassing to not give us proper FoV settings.

 

[Pseudopod]

the problem with a FOV slider on console (I think) is that if the FOV is higher , you will see more stuff on-screen , thus making the console process more information and possibly slowing it down.

But at the same time, everything will be smaller, and require fewer polygons and lower res textures in order to look as sharp and smooth as with a narrower field of view.

 

[JoaoSilva]

But at the same time, everything will be smaller, and require fewer polygons and lower res textures in order to look as sharp and smooth as with a narrower field of view.

maybe , i'm no expert

 

[breyzipp]

Bonnet/hood/roof/road/outsidewhatevercamera => competitive driving
Driver/helmet/cockpit/dashboard/insidewhatevercamera => immersive driving

I use both in GT6 and I sure will want to use both in GT7 as well!

(G27 & Wheelstand Pro + sofa user here playing on a single 50" plasma TV but like 4 meters away from the screen)

If anyone of you think you can just drop the dashboards of cars and say you won't be missing out on anything please take the premium Cobra 427 car and drive it around in the seasonal beginner race at Suzuka East with dashboard camera. Now do the same with bonnet camera and please come here telling that you are not missing out on something...

Yes there are a LOT of GT cars where the dashboard camera gives you a very limited view. And yes I drive really bad with that camera compared to the bonnet camera. But the fact remains that it's still fun to use for the immersion level.

The same goes for using the sequential shifters on my G27 instead of the clutch shifter. If I would do that on that Cobra 427 sure I will be faster. But I simply refuse doing so because it just feels completely wrong.

 

[Kryption]

My favourite view is bumper, I can see what's directly in front of me, but when I do use a wheel, I go cockpit mode, just seems natural. I know in need for speed shift, you need to, you can look around your cockpit, you can even just look at the passenger's seat if you want. I think that was the only thing I liked about the shift series, that I wish gt6 had as well. >.> I do like the car interiors, my acura was never this clean

 

[Scheer]

Yes.

 

[ToyGTone]

Console only players may not know what this thing is but if you knew enough about it, you'll immediately vote for a BIG YEAH!

 

[JKgo]

..........My two cents: I use interior when using a "premium" model, while chase cam's for either a standard, or something ridiculously fast (like Red Bull X cars). Whether someone uses interior cam or not is irrelevant, the way I see it. It is a must, if you are:
1. Claiming to be a "real driving simulator"
2. Compete in a tough scene populated with newbies (DriveClub, The Crew, PCars) and veterans that continues to make you look antiquated.

As for customisable FOVs, hell, that's a no-brainer, too. Get. It. In. Now!!!

 

[Luminis]

There is some debate in the Cars Ready for PS4 thread about cockpit view and adjustable Field of View in GT7. Some think a cockpit view isn't necessary at all, some only play with a cockpit view making standard cars pretty much dead to them.

Hm, my personal opinion aside (I'm very much pro cockpit view, never been using anything else since it became widely available), omitting a cockpit view turned out pretty bad for Codemasters and GRID 2. People got real mad about cockpit view missing. So, yeah, it seems to matter.

Regarding the FoV, I love having that option. Not as important to me as having a cockpit view in the first place, but I went to great lenghts to get the FoV workaround going in previous Forza titles. And adding that option doesn't seem like something that should be too hard for a developer to do. The car's interor and the trackside objects are being processed anyway and fully visible, too. There's not going to be anything on screen that's not there in, say, third person view or cockpit.

/edit:
Didn't see this at first:

the problem with a FOV slider on console (I think) is that if the FOV is higher , you will see more stuff on-screen , thus making the console process more information and possibly slowing it down.

You might see more stuff on the screen at once, but it should be rendered anyway. You could look left and right by moving the camera about or looking behind you, so the game's got to have everything prepared you'd get to see by doing so, regardless of your FoV. The performance impact should be minimal, if there actually is any.

Changing the FoV doesn't seem to have any impact on the PC games I did it with, but I'm not 100% sure whether that's because it's expected the user might do that. Either way, it should certainly be possible without having too much of an impact on the game, its performance or the development cycle, I'd assume.

 

[FastFurious77]

Bonnet/hood/roof/road/outsidewhatevercamera => competitive driving
Driver/helmet/cockpit/dashboard/insidewhatevercamera => immersive driving

I use both in GT6 and I sure will want to use both in GT7 as well!

(G27 & Wheelstand Pro + sofa user here playing on a single 50" plasma TV but like 4 meters away from the screen)

If anyone of you think you can just drop the dashboards of cars and say you won't be missing out on anything please take the premium Cobra 427 car and drive it around in the seasonal beginner race at Suzuka East with dashboard camera. Now do the same with bonnet camera and please come here telling that you are not missing out on something...

Yes there are a LOT of GT cars where the dashboard camera gives you a very limited view. And yes I drive really bad with that camera compared to the bonnet camera. But the fact remains that it's still fun to use for the immersion level.

The same goes for using the sequential shifters on my G27 instead of the clutch shifter. If I would do that on that Cobra 427 sure I will be faster. But I simply refuse doing so because it just feels completely wrong.

LOL dude now go and drive the Cobra 427 on Forza 5 and see how much better it is than GT6 in every way possible. Can I baptize you. The car actually sounds and drives like a cobra.