Is any one else as annoyed with people's Illogical complaints about GT6 as I am?

[revhead_1000]

So I have kinda found Im sick of all the complaining that goes on about GT6 and was wondering if anyone else is as sick of it as me? While some of them are reasonable many argument are in my opinion really illogical.

For example, everyone complains these days that the GT games are doing less and less stuff with each new title. Having been a GT player since GT1 was release I find it confusing that people seem to have forgotten what the difference was between GT1 and GT2. All Polyphony did was add more cars and tracks, and flesh out the career mode with little graphics improvement (none as far as I can tell). GT6 to date has been the most inovating GT game of the series, most customisation to date, better career structure (though length was lacking i agree).

Alternatively people complained about the car list in GT5 and GT6 being just the list of the previous game and then some. However everyone seems to forget that the GT4 list was just an expanded GT3 list. Literally the car list we have now is GT3.3 only in HD. Literally 90% of the cars from GT3 are in GT6 with the exception of the open wheel cars and some licensing issues. Why does no one realise that polyphony has been doing the exact same thing and they have been fine with it for the last 10 years.

Looking back at the history of GT, the only times the games went backwards were on two occasions: the decrease in career length between GT4 and GT5, and the decrease in tracks between the two games. In terms of everything else the newest title has always been an improvement. Oh and I guess possibly sound, though I never had a really good sound system to tell that from.

That said I do agree with some of the issues people raise but come on, stop using such illogical arguments and just downright exaggerated (standard cars being PS2 quality? Come on they look way better then the PS2 ever did.). Has anyone else found this inconsistancy in arguments annoying?

 

[eran0004]

If it annoys you, don't pay any attention to it. Wether GT has gone forwards or backwards is an opinion, not a fact.

 

[Aphelion]

If it annoys you, don't pay any attention to it. Wether GT has gone forwards or backwards is an opinion, not a fact.

Its kind of like telling a kid to just ignore the bullies. Easier said than done.

 

[eran0004]

Its kind of like telling a kid to just ignore the bullies. Easier said than done.

In what ways are people complianing about GT6 like bullies?

 

[Aphelion]

In what ways are people complianing about GT6 like bullies?

I said kind of.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Doesn't bother me in the least. This is common with all racing games as far as I can see, there is nothing unique to Gran Turismo in this regard. I started playing Assetto Corsa a few months ago and absolutely love the driving experience, second to none so far, but it's not hard to find people who say the AI aren't up to par, the atmosphere is dreary, the netcode sucks, it's not a complete game etc. etc. All of which are true to an extent by the way. I visit a number of sim racing forums these days and there is no such thing as a universally liked game. Every game has it's fans and those fans like to point out the flaws in other games. All games have flaws and things they can do much better, that's just the way it is. You either enjoy a game for what it is and there's nothing wrong with that, or you don't.

IMO if you take this stuff so personally or seriously that it actually affects your state of mind, a personal review of your priorities might do you some good. Enter into any discussion to enjoy the verbal sparring and mental gymnastics or turn your screen to something else.

 

[MN6WS6]

You admit that the decrease in tracks and career length are an issue, along with the sounds, yet you continue stating that 6 is better than previous versions? And how can you possibly come to the conclusion that there is more customization? What, you can build your own wing? Yet they eliminated complete racing modifications. The problem with the car count is that you have 1000 cars, but 100 different versions of a GTR each counted individually. The number one most promoted, most talked about, most innovative feature, that was the reason a lot of people bought the game, is STILL not released (course creator.)

None of that is illogical complaints, it's all very logical.

 

[revhead_1000]

But progress can be qualitatively measured, for instance based on you logic you can argue that the Middle ages were better then now if that is ones opinion. I doubt anyone would argue that though cause we all seem to agree that that time wasn't exactly the pinnacle of human society. My point being that yes you can in fact measure whether something is better or worse particularly if it is something technological or scientific (the exception being art cause lets face it that is kinda the point of it).

To summarise my issue, the core complaints about GT6 are issues that have been in the GT6 series for the last 10 years or more yet. Despite that everyone has been fine with them until now for some reason, despite the fact that they are less of an issue now then they were 10 years ago.

Johhnypenso, generating discussion/seeing if anyone has found the same incongruencies as me is the entire purpose of this post.

 

[Cowboy]

Doesn't really bother me. People think what they want to think, that's just how it is.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Johhnypenso, generating discussion/seeing if anyone has found the same incongruencies as me is the entire purpose of this post.

And my point still stands. If someone is "annoyed" over random thoughts on the internet, they need to step back.

As far as I can tell, on GTP at least, most of the complaints are legitimate complaints about the state of the game. Yes, once in a while you get some trolling, but so what? Skip over it if you don't like it. Call them out if you want to challenge the trolling. People are way too sensitive over absolutely nothing and I say again, if one doesn't enjoy the verbal sparring, then GTP or any other forum is not going to be a fun place for you.

 

[revhead_1000]

You admit that the decrease in tracks and career length are an issue, along with the sounds, yet you continue stating that 6 is better than previous versions? And how can you possibly come to the conclusion that there is more customization? What, you can build your own wing? Yet they eliminated complete racing modifications. The problem with the car count is that you have 1000 cars, but 100 different versions of a GTR each counted individually. The number one most promoted, most talked about, most innovative feature, that was the reason a lot of people bought the game, is STILL not released (course creator.)

None of that is illogical complaints, it's all very logical.

my Counter Arguments

Racing modifications were never that big of a thing, and in 6 they just made them more accessible. They existed in GT1 but were removed in 2,3,4.

Yes there was a decrease in tracks from 5 to 6, however they were mainly rally tracks. On top of that what memerable ones were removed? Instead we now have a better representative track library including Spa (I'm not counting the paid dlc in GT5), Bathurst, Silverstone, Brans Hatch, Goodwood.

As far as customisation, lets look at the improvements game to game. GT2: Racing modification removed (at least in Aus version, I have heard differently about the american). GT3: Ditto. GT4: spoilers added and wheels added. GT5: Racing modification added, custom paint. GT6: Body parts added, more wheels, better custom paint mechanic and more items to paint (spoilers). The GT6 customisability is the most complex yet in the series objectively.

Yes I agree with the 1000 skylines point, however those same skylines have existed since GT4 so it isn't really an issue unique to GT6.

Course Creator wasn't great in GT5, so if polyphony take their time to deliver a good one for GT6 that will be fine. Also your argument is essentially "they haven't created this future thing yet, therefore the existing product is terrible." Not an issue I ever addressed.

Lastly you didn't have any counter points to what I argued and I would like to hear them to see if there are any faults in my argument.

 

[eran0004]

I said kind of.

I don't see the resemblance.

But progress can be qualitatively measured, for instance based on you logic you can argue that the Middle ages were better then now if that is ones opinion. I doubt anyone would argue that though cause we all seem to agree that that time wasn't exactly the pinnacle of human society. My point being that yes you can in fact measure whether something is better or worse particularly if it is something technological or scientific (the exception being art cause lets face it that is kinda the point of it).

To summarise my issue, the core complaints about GT6 are issues that have been in the GT6 series for the last 10 years or more yet. Despite that everyone has been fine with them until now for some reason, despite the fact that they are less of an issue now then they were 10 years ago.

Is that my logic you're referring to? I don't think I presented any logic yet. But to quote Einstein, what you measure is relative to the coordinate system you're using. Using a coordinate system that's fixed by the point of Gran Turismo 1's release you can make a measurement and say that the series has gone forwards since then. Using a coordinate system fixed by the average standard of competing titles it's not at all certain that the Gran Turismo series has moved forwards.

You can also place different value on the things you measure. 1000 cars, how much is that worth in my book? The sounds, how much is that worth to me? The graphics, what value do I place on that? Etc, etc.

 

[Aphelion]

I don't see the resemblance.

Easier said than done.

 

[eran0004]

Easier said than done.

Just like going to the moon. Or baking a cake. Or quitting heroin. Those are all very different things, you can't say that baking a cake is kind of like going to the moon.

 

[Pixel_Pickaxe]

So I have kinda found Im sick of all the complaining that goes on about GT6 and was wondering if anyone else is as sick of it as me? While some of them are reasonable many argument are in my opinion really illogical.

For example, everyone complains these days that the GT games are doing less and less stuff with each new title. Having been a GT player since GT1 was release I find it confusing that people seem to have forgotten what the difference was between GT1 and GT2. All Polyphony did was add more cars and tracks, and flesh out the career mode with little graphics improvement (none as far as I can tell). GT6 to date has been the most inovating GT game of the series, most customisation to date, better career structure (though length was lacking i agree).

Alternatively people complained about the car list in GT5 and GT6 being just the list of the previous game and then some. However everyone seems to forget that the GT4 list was just an expanded GT3 list. Literally the car list we have now is GT3.3 only in HD. Literally 90% of the cars from GT3 are in GT6 with the exception of the open wheel cars and some licensing issues. Why does no one realise that polyphony has been doing the exact same thing and they have been fine with it for the last 10 years.

Looking back at the history of GT, the only times the games went backwards were on two occasions: the decrease in career length between GT4 and GT5, and the decrease in tracks between the two games. In terms of everything else the newest title has always been an improvement. Oh and I guess possibly sound, though I never had a really good sound system to tell that from.

That said I do agree with some of the issues people raise but come on, stop using such illogical arguments and just downright exaggerated (standard cars being PS2 quality? Come on they look way better then the PS2 ever did.). Has anyone else found this inconsistancy in arguments annoying?

I just want the Video editor thing that was advertised on the special editon box >_>

 

[Aphelion]

Just like going to the moon. Or baking a cake. Or quitting heroin. Those are all very different things, you can't say that baking a cake is kind of like going to the moon.

But I provided the linking sentence. Plus the fact that the two examples I gave were relatively similar things. In both situations you are trying to ignore a person who is saying/doing thing you don't agree with or think it is unfair. Yes, you are definitely able to make the connection without any problem, you just really didn't want too.

That being said, I don't really agree with the OP's problems. I guess it used to annoy me a bit, but i have grown to ignore them, since the same complaints have been made over and over again, and I know some of them make no sense, and I know some of them are 100% valid complaints. Just trying to find a happy medium.

 

[revhead_1000]

I don't see the resemblance.



Is that my logic you're referring to? I don't think I presented any logic yet. But to quote Einstein, what you measure is relative to the coordinate system you're using. Using a coordinate system that's fixed by the point of Gran Turismo 1's release you can make a measurement and say that the series has gone forwards since then. Using a coordinate system fixed by the average standard of competing titles it's not at all certain that the Gran Turismo has moved forwards.

Yay someone to have a good debate against.

What you say is true regarding the co-ordinate system. However this then raises the issue of wether or not it can be fairly compared against the competing titles as you say. First let me clarify, if you read my original post my issue is primarily with people taking issue with GT6 for not being a good GT game compared to the previous ones when really it is just following suit from the last 10 years. That said can we compare it to Forza? Yes they are the same genre, however I would argue the address different "niches within the console-sim niche" if you will, for example Forza has always been the more accessible while GT has always been significantly more "hardcore" in that it is always been very unforgiving. That said my main issue arrises with regards to the general Ethos of the two companies and their production paths. First Turn 10 has approximately 2.5 times the staff of Polyphony, so naturally they are going to be able to turn out high quality work faster. Second Turn 10 has a very aggressive DLC campaign, such as to get all content for forza 5 you required to get the season pass as well as the game which If I remember correctly, equates to double the $RRP. In summary, yes you can compare at face value, however that does not address all the issues, so to have a truly fair evaluation these kind of have to be included. As such yes compare against other products, however do so by including all aspects of the "package" such as features, capitol investment and ultimately what the intended purpose is. That said I got no defence against project cars, cause lets face it that looks amazing. Though again, my arguments are primarily against those complaining of how "GT6 is in all regards the downfall of the series" with respect to the Golden Days.

Also I have realised that my writing style may come across more aggressive than intended, thus the emoticons.

 

[ToyGTone]

👍 I'm sick of the complainers, they just complain about anything they find And then yet no one of them even complained about Fifa or madden, a game that they pay full game money yearly for the same game but with little graphics upgrade and little player faces changes.

Also the Racing Modification were included in GT1, GT2 and GT5. Almost every car in GT1 and GT2 had one. In GT5 there were only 16 cars that have Normal to Racing Modification. The RM of these 16 Cars became separated cars in GT6.

Thought here's some things i complain about GT:

Sounds of most cars (the latest VGT car sounds is pretty good but far from perfect)
Short career mode (i want something like GT4)
Damage (both Mechanic and Visual Damage)
No release of Course Maker
The game feels very small compared to GT5
Limited customizing
No Livery Editor
No engine and drive train swapping
Most update added cars were Concept VGT Cars, missing adding real cars (i prefer what GT5 DLC add of cars because Real Cars).
Event Creator
Gt Auto's GT3, 4 and 5 "funny" Style (Cleaning, oil change, painting..etc) is missing.
A lot of Cars are PS2 Quality

and couple more...

 

[eran0004]

But I provided the linking sentence. Plus the fact that the two examples I gave were relatively similar things. In both situations you are trying to ignore a person who is saying/doing thing you don't agree with or think it is unfair. Yes, you are definitely able to make the connection without any problem, you just really didn't want too.

I think your definition of what constitutes bullying falls short. In the case of a bully you have a problem of trying to ignore someone who is verbally or physically abusing you. That is quite a long way from the problem of trying to ignore someone sharing an opinion you don't agree with.

Yay someone to have a good debate against.

What you say is true regarding the co-ordinate system. However this then raises the issue of wether or not it can be fairly compared against the competing titles as you say. First let me clarify, if you read my original post my issue is primarily with people taking issue with GT6 for not being a good GT game compared to the previous ones when really it is just following suit from the last 10 years. That said can we compare it to Forza? Yes they are the same genre, however I would argue the address different "niches within the console-sim niche" if you will, for example Forza has always been the more accessible while GT has always been significantly more "hardcore" in that it is always been very unforgiving. That said my main issue arrises with regards to the general Ethos of the two companies and their production paths. First Turn 10 has approximately 2.5 times the staff of Polyphony, so naturally they are going to be able to turn out high quality work faster. Second Turn 10 has a very aggressive DLC campaign, such as to get all content for forza 5 you required to get the season pass as well as the game which If I remember correctly, equates to double the $RRP. In summary, yes you can compare at face value, however that does not address all the issues, so to have a truly fair evaluation these kind of have to be included. As such yes compare against other products, however do so by including all aspects of the "package" such as features, capitol investment and ultimately what the intended purpose is. That said I got no defence against project cars, cause lets face it that looks amazing. Though again, my arguments are primarily against those complaining of how "GT6 is in all regards the downfall of the series" with respect to the Golden Days.

Also I have realised that my writing style may come across more aggressive than intended, thus the emoticons.

Well, I'm not going to argue about which game is better, because frankly I will probably always prefer Gran Turismo, for rational or irrational reasons. But I think it's good to be able to understand other people's perspectives as well.

If someone posts what you think is nonsense and it annoys you to see it, simply ignore it. Spend your time discussing and debating with those who do make sense instead.

Regarding agressive, apparently even the single dot (.) can be interpreted as being passive agressive these days, it's pretty funny what social media and text messages has done to the language

 

[Aphelion]

I think your definition of what constitutes bullying falls short. In the case of a bully you have a problem of trying to ignore someone who is verbally or physically abusing you. That is quite a long way from the problem of trying to ignore someone sharing an opinion you don't agree with.

I definitely see your point, but its not that big of a stretch. Its the same idea; trying to block out what someone is saying to you, especially when you disagree with their statement, can be difficult. That's all i was trying to say.

 

[revhead_1000]

I think your definition of what constitutes bullying falls short. In the case of a bully you have a problem of trying to ignore someone who is verbally or physically abusing you. That is quite a long way from the problem of trying to ignore someone sharing an opinion you don't agree with.



Well, I'm not going to argue about which game is better, because frankly I will probably always prefer Gran Turismo, for rational or irrational reasons. But I think it's good to be able to understand other people's perspectives as well.

If someone posts what you think is nonsense and it annoys you to see it, simply ignore it. Spend your time discussing and debating with those who do make sense instead.

Regarding agressive, apparently even the single dot (.) can be interpreted as being passive agressive these days, it's pretty funny what social media and text messages has done to the language

Haha, yeah sorry I didn't intend to make it a FM vs GT argument, more just highlight that to compare it against competitor you must take all aspects into account.

 

[VBR]

Personally, I'm getting sick of the complainers that complain about all the complainers!

GT6 has some serious issues, & people offering PD feedback, constructive criticism, or just plain out complaints is perfectly fine imo.

Afterall, this site is called GT Planet, not GT Fanboys!

 

[revhead_1000]

👍 I'm sick of the complainers, they just complain about anything they find And then yet no one of them even complained about Fifa or madden, a game that they pay full game money yearly for the same game but with little graphics upgrade and little player faces changes.

Also the Racing Modification were included in GT1, GT2 and GT5. Almost every car in GT1 and GT2 had one. In GT5 there were only 16 cars that have Normal to Racing Modification. The RM of these 16 Cars became separated cars in GT6.

Thought here's some things i complain about GT:

Sounds of most cars (the latest VGT car sounds is pretty good but far from perfect)
Short career mode (i want something like GT4)
Damage (both Mechanic and Visual Damage)
No release of Course Maker
The game feels very small compared to GT5
Limited customizing
No Livery Editor
No engine and drive train swapping
Most update added cars were Concept VGT Cars, missing adding real cars (i prefer what GT5 DLC add of cars because Real Cars).
Event Creator
Gt Auto's GT3, 4 and 5 "funny" Style (Cleaning, oil change, painting..etc) is missing.
A lot of Cars are PS2 Quality

and couple more...

The racing modifications must not have been on the European/Australian version of the disk in GT2, because I could never find where it was under the performance parts section. Where was it cause I have looked like 50 bajillion times and could never find it and it annoyed me.

And again most of those issues have been issues with the GT series as a whole since the very beginning, yet people praised those games for the same things we are now hating them, thus the illogical bit. That being said I think GT3 actually had the most events, something close to 80 if I remember counting correctly.

Also, how long ago has it been since you played GT4? Because I played it a few months ago and realised that its unfair to call the standard car PS2 quality. There is a definite difference in quality between the two, would you agree? For instance I feel it is more accurate to call them PS2 HD remakes than PS2 quality.

 

[Tornado]

👍 I'm sick of the complainers, they just complain about anything they find And then yet no one of them even complained about Fifa or madden, a game that they pay full game money yearly for the same game but with little graphics upgrade and little player faces changes.

How many people who complain about GT6 shortcomings do you think buy copies of sports games every year?

 

[ToyGTone]

The racing modifications must not have been on the European/Australian version of the disk in GT2, because I could never find where it was under the performance parts section. Where was it cause I have looked like 50 bajillion times and could never find it and it annoyed me.

And again most of those issues have been issues with the GT series as a whole since the very beginning, yet people praised those games for the same things we are now hating them, thus the illogical bit. That being said I think GT3 actually had the most events, something close to 80 if I remember counting correctly.

Also, how long ago has it been since you played GT4? Because I played it a few months ago and realised that its unfair to call the standard car PS2 quality. There is a definite difference in quality between the two, would you agree? For instance I feel it is more accurate to call them PS2 HD remakes than PS2 quality.

It was in the Pal Version too, it's under "others" or the bottom left corner.

I'm not saying that Gt6 is bad in any sorts of way, i just say it could have been improved instead of leaving it like years with the same problem.

Suzuki alto works would like to disagree.

 

[Tornado]

The racing modifications must not have been on the European/Australian version of the disk in GT2,

They were in all versions of the game.

And again most of those issues have been issues with the GT series as a whole since the very beginning,

Which was over 15 years ago.

There is a definite difference in quality between the two, would you agree? For instance I feel it is more accurate to call them PS2 HD remakes than PS2 quality.

Nothing was "remade" for most of them, and you're probably nearly as likely to get a Standard car that looks worse than it did on the PS2 as you are one that looks better.

 

[revhead_1000]

They were in all versions of the game.


Which was over 15 years ago.


Nothing was "remade" for most of them, and you're probably nearly as likely to get a Standard car that looks worse than it did on the PS2 as you are one that looks better.

Yay you found the floor in my argument!! But again GT2 was literally exactly the same as the change from GT5 to GT6, except it was just more cars and more tracks. Yet it was praised as being the best thing ever, and many people consider it the best game in the series.

 

[revhead_1000]

It was in the Pal Version too, it's under "others" or the bottom left corner.

I'm not saying that Gt6 is bad in any sorts of way, i just say it could have been improved instead of leaving it like years with the same problem.

Suzuki alto works would like to disagree.

Yeah no, see I remember it there from GT1 but I never remember seeing it in GT2. Maybe I was just blind. Thanks though I will check it out.
Yep, its there. I must have been blind... :s

 

[Tornado]

So? How comparable do you think GT1 (a game that was literally revolutionary in the genre, and a clear turning point in how a typical racing game was designed) and GT5 (a game that released in a blatantly unfinished state about a year and a half after it was said to be completed) actually are to each other in the first place?

 

[Wide Boy]

Sure some of the things people complain about amaze me, however most of the complaining is justified though it falls on deaf ears. People are not generally complaining about it being worse than the previous incarnation, they are complaining about the same things they complained about several games back that still have not being addressed!!!!
That said several things were released as updates in GT5 because they were useful that they forgot to include in GT6.

Its been going on so long perhaps now we bitch at the slightest thing but let me ask you just a couple of things.
Why have a single player mode at all.
1) You cant use tyre wear, realistic slipstreaming etc, etc.
2) You cant set up logical race opponents the game picks very random stuff most of the time
3) Can forgive point 2 sort of as modelling the cars is honestly pretty pointless in single player as the AI is so bad you can often keep up with a supercar in a hot hatch.
When your stock Integra stays with or even closes on the Viper its slipstreaming down the straight you have to ask yourself why your actually playing.