Gt6 mr cars are broken

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Vos360

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Vos360
Compared to GT5, the physics of MR cars is totally screwed.

Case in point, the Diablo GT2. I've read the endless tuning apologetics that clamor about operator error, which is a fraud because MR cars behaved in GT5 as the generally superior format compared to FR or FF.

To make the Diablo GT2 even drivable, first of all the camber in suspension has to be brought to zero, nada. That dramatically improves the stability of the vehicle. Before that, the Diablo spins out of control when exiting turns, regardless of throttle control. Now, there's the apologist scumbags that yell "SLOW DOWN". First, when you do that with the Diablo you have to slow so much that the invincible, error proof AI swamps your ass and you lose the race, defeating the point of playing the freaking game.

Besides camber, a generally stiffing and very heavy downforce on the rear end help. Even so, the basic nature of the MR car in this game is unchanged, that's what the tune apologists don't understand: when you are TUNING a vehicle, you are merely supplementing what's already there, the basic nature of the car. You are not fundamentally changing anything, just tweaking. Without traction control, the Diablo will still spin out in cornering far, far, FAR more than any other type of car. In this game, a freaking Dodge Viper handles dramatically better at the same speed compared to an Enzo, Diablo or Murcielago WITHOUT tuning!

Another thing is the huge tendency of MR cars to flip over, again, compared to other vehicles. I flip a MR car without hitting the warning bumps on the side of the track. On the other hand, I can cut corners on tracks, running over hills, track bumps in my freaking Hyundai Genesis coupe and nothing happens to it, the HYUNDAI just glides over all of this uneven ground and gets back on the track without breaking a sweat at 80 mph while a Diablo can barely even f'ing corner at 80mph, and if I do a hard stop from 150+ on the Nurburgring and do a hard, fishtail drifting, oil-slick esque turn at 60, well then I'm riding on 2 wheels

I'm over 50 percent into the game and am extremely frustrated by this broke a$$ excuse of a 'sim'. The whole point of working your butt off was to be able to enjoy the nice cars, now that I'm here, they're broke! The ford GT, another example, is nothing like GT5. It's just a lesser version of the Diablo. All MR cars naturally hand like I'm driving on an oil slick, some are just worse than others, but the best are still inferior to, a 370Z?!? Seriously, I have better track times with a HYundai, Viper and 370z than I do with a Ferrari. Why was there even a GT6?
 
Really! There are cars that handle like garbage on the game. Who woulda thunk... I believe mid engine cars are a tad bit persnickity. It's one of those garbage in, garbage out things. Look in the tuning section to tame the thing, You aren't the first to have issues with the way some of these critters handle or turn turtle, whichever the case maybe...
 
@Vos360

Yup. Camber has been broken in GT6 since one of the later patches, was it 1.13 or 1.14 or something... Camber 0.0 is the fastest way to go, on all cars now after that update.

Tuning on 6 is still similar to 5 in regards that settings sometimes have to be backwards to make any sense of whatever desired effect you're trying to have.

I used to call it " Alien Technology Reverse Engineering " when I made a fast setup, as in PD land the words ' This is what it does ' actually means ' this is what it doesn't '.

Check this out for more in depth information.
 
@Vos360 welcome to GTPlanet!

There are two options if you have problem with MR cars in GT6.
You can set Active Steering Strong.
Or you can put front sports hard and rear sports medium tires(this option is very effective)

Enjoy these videos 👍






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3BoFWIFOIg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQd98mwoN-A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BBDSXoejZY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7GTuKde0-o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNYcqkIBVZc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s_TJOzPzbg
 
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Vos360
In this game, a freaking Dodge Viper handles dramatically better at the same speed compared to an Enzo, Diablo or Murcielago WITHOUT tuning!
Click to expand...
Well it depends on which ones, but I'm not surprised given that the Viper is pretty track capable and Lamborghinis can be heavy GT cars. Enzo not so much, but really GT has always had physics issues.

Mid engine cars do have a reputation of being hard to handle though, it's not so simple as placing the engine in the middle instantly makes a car superior. This is especially true of road cars that don't directly compete with each other and can have huge differences in design goals and quality.
 
TJC_69
@Vos360

Yup. Camber has been broken in GT6 since one of the later patches, was it 1.13 or 1.14 or something... Camber 0.0 is the fastest way to go, on all cars now after that update.

Tuning on 6 is still similar to 5 in regards that settings sometimes have to be backwards to make any sense of whatever desired effect you're trying to have.

I used to call it " Alien Technology Reverse Engineering " when I made a fast setup, as in PD land the words ' This is what it does ' actually means ' this is what it doesn't '.

Check this out for more in depth information.
Click to expand...

Camber has been broken since GT5...
 
Just practice. MR and RR cars are very different from FF, FR and 4WD, it might take a while to get used to it.

I suggest you start with comfort or sports tyres, as the transition from grip to slide is smoother on those tyres than with racing tyres.
 
Exorcet
Well it depends on which ones, but I'm not surprised given that the Viper is pretty track capable and Lamborghinis can be heavy GT cars. Enzo not so much, but really GT has always had physics issues.

Mid engine cars do have a reputation of being hard to handle though, it's not so simple as placing the engine in the middle instantly makes a car superior. This is especially true of road cars that don't directly compete with each other and can have huge differences in design goals and quality.
Click to expand...

Actually, yes, that's why the engine is relocated in MR vehicles, to make the car superior. Besides dramatically altering the cars gravity, it is supposed to make the rear end more stable for cornering, NOT LIKE DRIVING ON AN OIL SLICK. Different design goals" is a meaningless platitude. Ferrari makes MR cars not because of some ponderous design experiment but to make it quite frankly faster, more responsive and and agile in cornering. That's why the F40, F50 and Enzo are all MR and the luxury cruise tourer 599, Mercedes or Aston Martin isn't.

eran0004
Just practice. MR and RR cars are very different from FF, FR and 4WD, it might take a while to get used to it.

I suggest you start with comfort or sports tyres, as the transition from grip to slide is smoother on those tyres than with racing tyres.
Click to expand...

I'm over 50 percent in the game and, to be honest, I also have a life. I have enough experience by now to know the difference in tires and to know that merely changing tires does not change the nature of the car.

And GT's tire difference is pretty frank: you get what you pay for. I swear the over-analyzation of this game is strangling it to death. 7000 dollar tires do not possess some hidden superiority over 37000 dollar race tires that can allow you to unlock the secrets of the GT2, they are actually just ********, it's really that simple.

eran0004
Just practice. MR and RR cars are very different from FF, FR and 4WD, it might take a while to get used to it.
Click to expand...

Also, there are MR cars that are 4wd, like the Murceilago. The Murcielago has the exact same oil-slick handling characteristics of the Diablo GT2 but it stops just short of spinning completely out of control because of the 4wd.
And I make this point just to reiterate that MR cars are broken. You car get used to something being broken, that doesn't mean it's not broken.

I am very frustrated with this and have given up trying to rectify the issue with tuning. The "very different design goals" generality is superficial and unconvincing. Something is fatally flawed with GT6's physics.
 
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Instead of ranting, soak up some of the advice said by people who've probably played the game since day one and have enough miles under their belt to circumnavigate the planet.

In all honestly, it just sounds like you're over driving as the cars you've mentioned (other than the Diablo GT2...nasty car) handle pretty well in stock trim.

As said, and if you can fit it into your busy life, drop a tire level and learn the cars characteristics off it's limit instead of what happens over it. You never know, that last 50% of the game might not be as frustrating as the first 50%.
 
Vos360
Actually, yes, that's why the engine is relocated in MR vehicles, to make the car superior. Besides dramatically altering the cars gravity, it is supposed to make the rear end more stable for cornering, NOT LIKE DRIVING ON AN OIL SLICK. Different design goals" is a meaningless platitude. Ferrari makes MR cars not because of some ponderous design experiment but to make it quite frankly faster, more responsive and and agile in cornering. That's why the F40, F50 and Enzo are all MR and the luxury cruise tourer 599, Mercedes or Aston Martin isn't.
Click to expand...

Yes, the MR layout is chosen for a reason, but no it does not automatically make a car superior to non MR cars. If the chassis is soft and heavy it's going to be less composed than a stiff and light FR car. This is an issue with the Murcielago (well not MR, so a bit off topic, my bad) in particular as it's not really a pure sports car, but more of a grand tourer like the 575 or McLaren SLR. Hence FR cars like the Viper tend to do better in corners.

If you want more proof that placing the engine in the middle doesn't make a perfectly stable car, just look at the Porsche Carrera GT which was notorious for being tricky on the edge.
 
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Vos360
Compared to GT5, the physics of MR cars is totally screwed.

Case in point, the Diablo GT2. I've read the endless tuning apologetics that clamor about operator error, which is a fraud because MR cars behaved in GT5 as the generally superior format compared to FR or FF.

To make the Diablo GT2 even drivable, first of all the camber in suspension has to be brought to zero, nada. That dramatically improves the stability of the vehicle. Before that, the Diablo spins out of control when exiting turns, regardless of throttle control. Now, there's the apologist scumbags that yell "SLOW DOWN". First, when you do that with the Diablo you have to slow so much that the invincible, error proof AI swamps your ass and you lose the race, defeating the point of playing the freaking game.

Besides camber, a generally stiffing and very heavy downforce on the rear end help. Even so, the basic nature of the MR car in this game is unchanged, that's what the tune apologists don't understand: when you are TUNING a vehicle, you are merely supplementing what's already there, the basic nature of the car. You are not fundamentally changing anything, just tweaking. Without traction control, the Diablo will still spin out in cornering far, far, FAR more than any other type of car. In this game, a freaking Dodge Viper handles dramatically better at the same speed compared to an Enzo, Diablo or Murcielago WITHOUT tuning!

Another thing is the huge tendency of MR cars to flip over, again, compared to other vehicles. I flip a MR car without hitting the warning bumps on the side of the track. On the other hand, I can cut corners on tracks, running over hills, track bumps in my freaking Hyundai Genesis coupe and nothing happens to it, the HYUNDAI just glides over all of this uneven ground and gets back on the track without breaking a sweat at 80 mph while a Diablo can barely even f'ing corner at 80mph, and if I do a hard stop from 150+ on the Nurburgring and do a hard, fishtail drifting, oil-slick esque turn at 60, well then I'm riding on 2 wheels

I'm over 50 percent into the game and am extremely frustrated by this broke a$$ excuse of a 'sim'. The whole point of working your butt off was to be able to enjoy the nice cars, now that I'm here, they're broke! The ford GT, another example, is nothing like GT5. It's just a lesser version of the Diablo. All MR cars naturally hand like I'm driving on an oil slick, some are just worse than others, but the best are still inferior to, a 370Z?!? Seriously, I have better track times with a HYundai, Viper and 370z than I do with a Ferrari. Why was there even a GT6?
Click to expand...

At the risk of being an apologetic scumbag, SLOW DOWN. At 630HP completely stock, naturally the car is a handful to be driven with care, not throttled. Maybe like riding a bull in real life? You need a loose but firm grasp of the power (if that makes any sense). I've never ridden a bull or driven a Lambo (and probably never will) but I think GT6 got the GT2 simulation correct.
 
The MR cars tend to be the fastest cars at a given PP category. Enzo, MP4-12C, Ford GT...all great cars.

Lambo Diablo GT is a bit stiff stock. Soften it.

Also, something that I haven't seen mentioned, are you driving on the racing tires? RS especially makes a mess of the MR handling.
 
Exorcet
Yes, the MR layout is chosen for a reason, but no it does not automatically make a car superior to non MR cars. If the chassis is soft and heavy it's going to be less composed than a stiff and light FR car. This is an issue with the Murcielago (well not MR, so a bit off topic, my bad) in particular as it's not really a pure sports car, but more of a grand tourer like the 575 or McLaren SLR. Hence FR cars like the Viper tend to do better in corners.

If you want more proof that placing the engine in the middle doesn't make a perfectly stable car, just look at the Porsche Carrera GT which was notorious for being tricky on the edge.
Click to expand...
Or the first MR road car - the Miura which while a very pretty car is legendary for some seriously wayward handling traits (aside from massive nose lift at speed).
 
Vos360
Compared to GT5, the physics of MR cars is totally screwed.

Case in point, the Diablo GT2. I've read the endless tuning apologetics that clamor about operator error, which is a fraud because MR cars behaved in GT5 as the generally superior format compared to FR or FF.

To make the Diablo GT2 even drivable, first of all the camber in suspension has to be brought to zero, nada. That dramatically improves the stability of the vehicle. Before that, the Diablo spins out of control when exiting turns, regardless of throttle control. Now, there's the apologist scumbags that yell "SLOW DOWN". First, when you do that with the Diablo you have to slow so much that the invincible, error proof AI swamps your ass and you lose the race, defeating the point of playing the freaking game.

Besides camber, a generally stiffing and very heavy downforce on the rear end help. Even so, the basic nature of the MR car in this game is unchanged, that's what the tune apologists don't understand: when you are TUNING a vehicle, you are merely supplementing what's already there, the basic nature of the car. You are not fundamentally changing anything, just tweaking. Without traction control, the Diablo will still spin out in cornering far, far, FAR more than any other type of car. In this game, a freaking Dodge Viper handles dramatically better at the same speed compared to an Enzo, Diablo or Murcielago WITHOUT tuning!

Another thing is the huge tendency of MR cars to flip over, again, compared to other vehicles. I flip a MR car without hitting the warning bumps on the side of the track. On the other hand, I can cut corners on tracks, running over hills, track bumps in my freaking Hyundai Genesis coupe and nothing happens to it, the HYUNDAI just glides over all of this uneven ground and gets back on the track without breaking a sweat at 80 mph while a Diablo can barely even f'ing corner at 80mph, and if I do a hard stop from 150+ on the Nurburgring and do a hard, fishtail drifting, oil-slick esque turn at 60, well then I'm riding on 2 wheels

I'm over 50 percent into the game and am extremely frustrated by this broke a$$ excuse of a 'sim'. The whole point of working your butt off was to be able to enjoy the nice cars, now that I'm here, they're broke! The ford GT, another example, is nothing like GT5. It's just a lesser version of the Diablo. All MR cars naturally hand like I'm driving on an oil slick, some are just worse than others, but the best are still inferior to, a 370Z?!? Seriously, I have better track times with a HYundai, Viper and 370z than I do with a Ferrari. Why was there even a GT6?
Click to expand...
I guess you haven't tried the Cizeta and Stratos yet? All good fun and tuning these to be more drivesble makes the game what it is.

And , every now and then you see a news item or Jalopnik item of some driver who really put a super car MR in a ditch. They can be a handful.
 
Polsixe
I guess you haven't tried the Cizeta and Stratos yet? All good fun and tuning these to be more drivesble makes the game what it is.

And , every now and then you see a news item or Jalopnik item of some driver who really put a super car MR in a ditch. They can be a handful.
Click to expand...

+1 the ferrari F40 is a good example, try & find a youtube video OP of an interview with a F40 owner & listen to what they say about it's handling.
 
coryclifford
Is this thread for real? 24 years old, signed up today, two posts, crying about a game he can't drive good enough to win every time. Boo hoo. Learn to drive, learn to tune. 50%? Haha.
Click to expand...
Pointing out the short comings of the physics engine in a driving sim seems like a valid complaint to me.
 
Because that will change anything? Or you expect Kaz to change the game for you? C'mon now. So many cry baby posts lately it's sad.
 
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Vos360
Compared to GT5, the physics of MR cars is totally screwed.

Case in point, the Diablo GT2. I've read the endless tuning apologetics that clamor about operator error, which is a fraud because MR cars behaved in GT5 as the generally superior format compared to FR or FF.

To make the Diablo GT2 even drivable, first of all the camber in suspension has to be brought to zero, nada. That dramatically improves the stability of the vehicle. Before that, the Diablo spins out of control when exiting turns, regardless of throttle control. Now, there's the apologist scumbags that yell "SLOW DOWN". First, when you do that with the Diablo you have to slow so much that the invincible, error proof AI swamps your ass and you lose the race, defeating the point of playing the freaking game.

Besides camber, a generally stiffing and very heavy downforce on the rear end help. Even so, the basic nature of the MR car in this game is unchanged, that's what the tune apologists don't understand: when you are TUNING a vehicle, you are merely supplementing what's already there, the basic nature of the car. You are not fundamentally changing anything, just tweaking. Without traction control, the Diablo will still spin out in cornering far, far, FAR more than any other type of car. In this game, a freaking Dodge Viper handles dramatically better at the same speed compared to an Enzo, Diablo or Murcielago WITHOUT tuning!

Another thing is the huge tendency of MR cars to flip over, again, compared to other vehicles. I flip a MR car without hitting the warning bumps on the side of the track. On the other hand, I can cut corners on tracks, running over hills, track bumps in my freaking Hyundai Genesis coupe and nothing happens to it, the HYUNDAI just glides over all of this uneven ground and gets back on the track without breaking a sweat at 80 mph while a Diablo can barely even f'ing corner at 80mph, and if I do a hard stop from 150+ on the Nurburgring and do a hard, fishtail drifting, oil-slick esque turn at 60, well then I'm riding on 2 wheels

I'm over 50 percent into the game and am extremely frustrated by this broke a$$ excuse of a 'sim'. The whole point of working your butt off was to be able to enjoy the nice cars, now that I'm here, they're broke! The ford GT, another example, is nothing like GT5. It's just a lesser version of the Diablo. All MR cars naturally hand like I'm driving on an oil slick, some are just worse than others, but the best are still inferior to, a 370Z?!? Seriously, I have better track times with a HYundai, Viper and 370z than I do with a Ferrari. Why was there even a GT6?
Click to expand...
Hmmmm....

What are some of the most successful cars in their classes (in GT6)?

Dino
Elise 111R
NSX
GSX-R/4
HSC
RX500
X-Bow
Miura
458 Italia
Ford GT40 Mk I
XJ-13
P4 330
TS030
C60-Hybride
2J
2D
390 Road Car
McClaren F1 GTR

What do they all have in common?

MR
 
8l23ub
MR Cars + Alien Drivers = Crushing Superiority



I think this was the Stig's German Cousin,
'Some say he is part man part 'Driving Legend'
:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:
Click to expand...

MR car + average driver = Hello repair shop do you have an opening this year?

Seriously MR cars are twitchy that's what makes them better in turns. Being on an oil slick like feeling that comes with the territory of having 55%+ on the back end of the car, the tires can only take so much.
Drive around a track at normal real life driving speeds you will see they don't ditch instantly at those speeds. Driving at race speed you're pushing the car and tires to and past their limits in almost every turn. You will crash. Find me a pro racer that hasn't and I'll show you one that hasn't won a race.
 
Otaliema
MR car + average driver = Hello repair shop do you have an opening this year?

Seriously MR cars are twitchy that's what makes them better in turns. Being on an oil slick like feeling that comes with the territory of having 55%+ on the back end of the car, the tires can only take so much.
Drive around a track at normal real life driving speeds you will see they don't ditch instantly at those speeds. Driving at race speed you're pushing the car and tires to and past their limits in almost every turn. You will crash. Find me a pro racer that hasn't and I'll show you one that hasn't won a race.
Click to expand...

Precisely, just ask Kamui 👍

 
Ferrari GTO, F40, McLaren F1, NSX-R, 458 Italia, MP4-12C - these are some of my favourite cars in the game. Sure the rear threatens to overtake the front if you do not watch it but few cars can make you feel better after a 10 - 20 lap stint. The F40 in particular is a grin-inducer of note. I have run up 1300 kms on mine. I also keep a log of my long stints and just the other day I noted "I will never stop driving this virtual car".
 
JohnyPiston
Ferrari GTO, F40, McLaren F1, NSX-R, 458 Italia, MP4-12C - these are some of my favourite cars in the game. Sure the rear threatens to overtake the front if you do not watch it but few cars can make you feel better after a 10 - 20 lap stint. The F40 in particular is a grin-inducer of note. I have run up 1300 kms on mine. I also keep a log of my long stints and just the other day I noted "I will never stop driving this virtual car".
Click to expand...

The good old F40, even though it is 'too much' performance for me

Midfield Raceway

Midfield Raceway

Ferrari F40

I cant leave it alone.
Im thoughtfull though, I make sure the roads are empty
:D
 
Forgive me for being new here... I also like to figure things out myself first, so my findings might cause flaming...

Weight % front to back basically determines how long the skid will last. An FR can break the rear end loose but it will correct much faster than an MR.

Add to this the fact MRs steer VERY aggressively. The rear is often near the edge of traction, add gas and yes, the "oil slick" effect shows up.

Either steer less, or tune this out. Weight to the front would help, but I find weight to be the enemy... I simply make the front very stiff and rear very soft. That shifts more weight onto the rear tires for better grip to the detriment of the front, which already steers too hard so it had plenty to give.

The stratos is terrible, but iirc the front all the way stiff with the rear all the way soft will make it easily driveable.
 
kilesa4568
Instead of ranting, soak up some of the advice said by people who've probably played the game since day one and have enough miles under their belt to circumnavigate the planet.

In all honestly, it just sounds like you're over driving as the cars you've mentioned (other than the Diablo GT2...nasty car) handle pretty well in stock trim.

As said, and if you can fit it into your busy life, drop a tire level and learn the cars characteristics off it's limit instead of what happens over it. You never know, that last 50% of the game might not be as frustrating as the first 50%.
Click to expand...


What do you mean by "over driving"? This is a racing game, and it's AI can drive just as fast as you, without accessories and without error, they're perfect.

I've since bought other racing cars and it's clear that they did something to MR. The worst e ample yet is the Ferrari F40, which makes the GT2 look like a cake walk. That car is truly un drivable for me, any tuning advice?
 

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