PSA Peugeot Citroen In Talks To Buy Opel/Vauxhall

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Robin

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This is the worst news I have heard all week! :lol:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38969791

Opel for me has always been the forgotten German car company with quality to match, I wouldn't want them to suddenly be sharing underpinnings, parts and switch gear from some of the poorest constructed cars in Europe.
 
Vauxpel cars might at least look good if they take Citroen design cues. But you know they'll get fat arsed Peugeot ones instead.
 

That's more of a stereotypical view and not really representative of them especially in the last 10 years. I would say today they are at least on par with VW, many of the parts are from similar German suppliers like Bosch. Regardless, they are miles ahead of anything coming out of PSA that's for sure!
 
This is the worst news I have heard all week! :lol:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38969791

Opel for me has always been the forgotten German car company with quality to match, I wouldn't want them to suddenly be sharing underpinnings, parts and switch gear from some of the poorest constructed cars in Europe.

They already do. It's called Vauxhall.
 
Hmm. The worst cars from Germany combined with the French.

Recipe for a murder-suicide.
 
I would say today they are at least on par with VW
Just about - one lies about emissions, the other about fire.

The build quality of the Insignia is about even with the Mondeo. The Astra about even with the Focus. The Corsa is no better than the Peugeot 208, the Adam is no better than the Citroen C1 and the Viva struggles to match up to the Suzuki Celerio. And the less said about the Mokka X the better.
 
I had a French car, built by Italians, for 10 years and it was fine. Mostly.

306 Cabrio? My Astra Coupe was put together by Bertone. Not bad, but then it's GM hardware.
 
I had a French car, built by Italians, for 10 years and it was fine. Mostly.

I've seen Peugeot 206's that had half a million kilometers under their belt. Most of the others are still ****!
 
No, no. This is fantastic news IMO.

Some things I want clarified: Opel didn't lie about Zafira's catching fire, this is 1. a Vauxhall Problem and 2. it's the owners fault because they refused to listen to the customers advice http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/zafiracustomeradvice.html Vauxhall put those out early enough, but if People don't listen...

To say the build Quality of Insignia is on par with Mondeo, Astra/Focus etc. is just ridiculous, it's either the guy sat in a early 2000's Opel and compared it to a 2010ish Ford or basically has never sat in either of those. The current models are definitely better Quality than current Fords and just a tiny bit under VW's (but Opel has far better Price/Quality).

The quality of the current Peugeot and Citroen/DS cars is pretty good, too. They have managed to pull themselves out of the crisis after PSA almost faced bancrupcy, but they did it on their own, no help from government or anything. I don't understand why anybody thinks just because it's French it's somehow 'unreliable'. Never been, whenever I am in France I see so many old 205's and 405's, even Renault R5's and Citroen 2CV. It's incredible how many of those French cars are still around. Not nearly that many old Golf's are still around here in Germany, where I live... given those Golfs were sold like crazy once, that pretty much says it all, what is quality and what is not. French cars unreliable? I don't think so!

Oh, and yeah... worst german manufacturer? hahaha, sure. This 'worst' manufacturer was actually the best in Germany in the '70s and Europe's Number 3 throughout most of the '80s and '90s... (I'm talking sales figures) the reason that it's just the 'worst german brand' as he believes, is because of GM's weird policies for they stopped caring for- or stopped understanding the European market way back, not allowing Opel liberties they needed, in Motorsports; in reaching markets including the own U.S. but also China; all of Africa and South America. They also never allowed developments they feared would be direct challengers to their other Brands or take RWD platforms; V8's for Luxury Sedans etc. So the only Technology from the U.S. that would be any beneficial to Opel was never granted them to use on the European market. Instead, Opel cars where re-badged and used under different marques all over the world. If it's for this stupid re-badging ish* alone, there couldn't be any better future for Opel as with basically anyone other than with GM! Sorry Buick!

Another reason why Opel seems the smallest german brand next to VAG, Mercedes and BMW is because none located beneath Opel ever survived, that's german history right there. Learn about the fates of all other german Brands, they either died or had to fuse/bought up and got forgotten nonetheless. NSU; Horch became Auto Union and later Audi - Borgward died (well, just resurected recently but probably not for Long) and similar was it with Dixi, DKW and many more. See, Opel is just there because they survived.

I'm very optimistic, should Opel/Vauxhall go to PSA, they will then be able to enter new markets, any market that proves to have potential actually. The other PSA Brands Peugeot and Citroen will benefit from Opels development Center at HQ's in Rüsselsheim. The Motorsport aspect is also interesting, IMO. All three either have amazing history in Motorsports or are currently very involved in, another thing where GM always blocked Opel, was on not allowing them a decent budget for their Motorsport activities. this could soon change. So, I'm looking forward to Opel's future, I think it will be great without GM!
 
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This is the worst news I have heard all week! :lol:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38969791

Opel for me has always been the forgotten German car company with quality to match, I wouldn't want them to suddenly be sharing underpinnings, parts and switch gear from some of the poorest constructed cars in Europe.
Alternatively: Company with reputation for making crap cars being taken over by one that has made some pretty damn good ones in the last five or so years.
 
the Adam is no better than the Citroen C1.

Pedantic correction: It's worse and it costs a couple of grand more.

This is the worst news I have heard all week! :lol:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38969791

Opel for me has always been the forgotten German car company with quality to match, I wouldn't want them to suddenly be sharing underpinnings, parts and switch gear from some of the poorest constructed cars in Europe.

Vauxhall/Opel has recently pulled the finger out with the Astra and the so-much-better-than-the-old-one-it's-barely-believable Corsa, but in general, PSA's current lot knocks Opel's for six.

New stuff like the Vauxhall Grandland X platform-shares with the 3008, so it's just going to be only as good as the equivalent Peugeot, except more dreary to look at and sit in.
 
Vauxhall was 4th in the 2016 J.D. Power survey ahead of all other German, French and UK manufacturers. The Insignia was the highest rated midsize car and the Mokka 3rd highest rated SUV. Hardly terrible cars it seems.

www.jdpower.com/press-releases/jd-power-2016-uk-vehicle-dependability-study
And as I'm sure you'll note (though oddly declined to point out), Peugeot was next up in that survey - so your original comment of "some of the poorest constructed cars in Europe" doesn't really fly, unless you're willing to admit that on the basis of the above, Vauxhalls are simply slightly less poorly constructed.

But that wasn't really my point, which was that Vauxhall has only recently stopped producing actively terrible cars and now merely produces mediocre ones, whereas Peugeot (and Citroen) turned itself around several years ago and now makes cars that are generally very good to drive, good to sit inside and - as your very own link apparently illustrates - pretty well constructed.

Either way, I'm not seeing much risk here - if Opel/Vauxhall is bought by PSA then quality is unlikely to change, but the driving experience is likely to improve.
 
And as I'm sure you'll note (though oddly declined to point out), Peugeot was next up in that survey - so your original comment of "some of the poorest constructed cars in Europe" doesn't really fly, unless you're willing to admit that on the basis of the above, Vauxhalls are simply slightly less poorly constructed.

But that wasn't really my point, which was that Vauxhall has only recently stopped producing actively terrible cars and now merely produces mediocre ones, whereas Peugeot (and Citroen) turned itself around several years ago and now makes cars that are generally very good to drive, good to sit inside and - as your very own link apparently illustrates - pretty well constructed.

Either way, I'm not seeing much risk here - if Opel/Vauxhall is bought by PSA then quality is unlikely to change, but the driving experience is likely to improve.

I'm not denying that Peugeot has also improved as the survey shows but I don't agree that they turned themselves around years before Vauxhall did, I feel the opposite has happened. Peugeot/Citroen may have recently improved but for much longer than Vauxhall has, and possibly longer than GM Europe has even existed, the quality has been lacking. That's a hard historic reputation to shake hence my point some of the poorest constructed cars in Europe. I also don't agree that Vauxhall has gone from terrible to mediocre whereas Peugeot has gone from, less say mediocre, to good. Peugeot still doesn't have the engineering polish of Vauxhall although they do make up for that in being fun to drive (something they have done well for a long time) and things like styling etc. In my opinion Vauxhall could make better strides forward in the care of someone else whereas PSA will probably hold them where they are.
 
I'm not denying that Peugeot has also improved as the survey shows but I don't agree that they turned themselves around years before Vauxhall did, I feel the opposite has happened.
The opposite cannot have happened without Peugeot getting worse. And it's fairly easy to pinpoint when Peugeot's fortunes began to improve, though I probably did it a disservice by saying five years ago, as it was around the time the RCZ came out - a demonstrably good car and one of surprising quality, and one that arrived in 2009 - so eight years ago.

Vauxhall has undoubtedly improved in recent years, but having driven a large number of both the current Vauxhall and Peugeot ranges it's hard to pick an example where the Vauxhall is better than the equivalent Peugeot. Possibly the Insignia vs the 508, though given both are in a pretty mediocre class as it is (and all are a fair way behind the Mazda 6) that's hardly an accolade worth celebrating. The new Astra is better than the old one, but not as good as the 308, and when it comes to the stuff those of us on GTP might care about, Vauxhall's hot hatches aren't a patch on Peugeot's offerings.
Peugeot/Citroen may have recently improved but for much longer than Vauxhall has, and possibly longer than GM Europe has even existed, the quality has been lacking.
That's a rather difficult thing to quantify, not least because GM (Europe or otherwise) is hardly a standard-bearer for quality. There have certainly been some badly-built Peugeots, but then there have been some badly-built Vauxhalls too, so it's swings and roundabouts. I'm not sure it's of particular relevance since again, recent evidence suggests otherwise on both counts.
That's a hard historic reputation to shake hence my point some of the poorest constructed cars in Europe.
Whether you're able to personally shake that reputation or not doesn't alter the evidence, which you yourself linked to! And that evidence directly contradicts your opening statement.

I'm stabbing wildly in the dark here, but could it be that you simply don't like Peugeots very much and quite like Vauxhalls, so are a bit miffed that the former might take over the latter?
I also don't agree that Vauxhall has gone from terrible to mediocre whereas Peugeot has gone from, less say mediocre, to good.
And you are welcome to disagree, but that doesn't make it correct.

More accurately, I'd say that over the past few decades Peugeot has gone from very good, to pretty poor, to very good again, while Vauxhall has gone from atrocious, to mediocre, to marginally less mediocre.
Peugeot still doesn't have the engineering polish of Vauxhall
A phrase not exactly packed with meaning, unless you're referring to something like, I dunno, the operation of indicator switches, which I will concede Vauxhall does quite nicely. If we're talking say, engines, then the recent Peugeot lumps I've used have blown the Vauxhall ones out of the water.

I do quite like Vauxhall's new twin-turbo 1.6 diesel, but I'm not sure I could ever hand-on-heart recommend anyone buys a 1.6-litre diesel anything, as I'm not that cruel.
In my opinion Vauxhall could make better strides forward in the care of someone else whereas PSA will probably hold them where they are.
And again, you're welcome to your opinion, though I do wonder what exactly it might be based on.
 
Vauxhall has always struck me as being held back by Opel. Pity they weren't Europe's Holden branch instead of the UK's Opel offshoot.
 
So, if PSA buys Opel/Vauxhall, then what will Buick do next if that happens? I mean, they at the moment just have mainly rebadged Opels.
 
It does seem odd that PSA would look to close an efficient plant at Ellesmere, but sadly, this is the kind of thing Mr. Xenophobic Brexiteer was warned about.
 
homeforsummer
I'm stabbing wildly in the dark here, but could it be that you simply don't like Peugeots very much and quite like Vauxhalls, so are a bit miffed that the former might take over the latter?

I don't simply dislike Peugeot, but I could equally suggest that there appears to be a distinct lean in the other direction in here. My feelings are based on the experiences I have had with their cars over the years, just as you have had, and its going to be different from person to person. To be fair though, Peugeot has had a lot of press about quality issues over the decades whereas Vauxhall had not had anywhere near the same relentless negative commentary regarding quality. I just think they could do better than a PSA takeover.

So, if PSA buys Opel/Vauxhall, then what will Buick do next if that happens? I mean, they at the moment just have mainly rebadged Opels.

Read an article today about another possibility of the takeover, that it may slowly turn into a badge engineering affair or be phased out entirely. So yeah Peugeot Buick's could be a reality!

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/vauxhall-dead-peugeot-chrysler-car-company-uk-motorist-a7580476.html

VXR
It does seem odd that PSA would look to close an efficient plant at Ellesmere, but sadly, this is the kind of thing Mr. Xenophobic Brexiteer was warned about.

If the EU imposes heavy tariffs on UK imports and exports, given that Ellesmere sources many parts from Europe and sells lots of Opel Astra back to them, French ownership would almost certainly mean its earmarked for closure regardless of productivity because simply the sums wouldn't add up. Even less so if they just need a few guys to stick a Griffin badge on a 308.

VXR
Vauxhall has always struck me as being held back by Opel. Pity they weren't Europe's Holden branch instead of the UK's Opel offshoot.

I think it could have gone either way, without Opel if Vauxhall had gone it alone they could have done well or ended up like Rover! Being Holden's branch would have resulted in awesome but totally unsaleable cars (engines etc).
 
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Peugeot has had a lot of press about quality issues over the decades whereas Vauxhall had not had anywhere near the same relentless negative commentary regarding quality.
At least Peugeot do joi de vivre and chic, whereas Vauxhall just do monotonous mediocrity. I'd rather my car had some qualities other than solely being a commodity that's designed to get you from one place to another (and I use the word "designed" very loosely.)

The only decent Vauxhalls in my lifetime have been the VX220 and the Monaro. And neither of them are Vauxhalls.
 
VXR
Vauxhall has always struck me as being held back by Opel. Pity they weren't Europe's Holden branch instead of the UK's Opel offshoot.

Since the early 80's, Vauxhall has effectively been little more than a pair of UK-based Opel factories.
 
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