A Question for the Drift Gods...

[DarkED]

Hi, I've been learning how to drift. My car is a Honda S2000 V, the one that costs 37,000 at the Honda dealership.

I used this guide as a reference for GT4 drifting technique and my car setup: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=57146

I didn't copy the settings word for word but my setup is similar, it's tweaked just a little for my personal driving style. I use a mix of lift-off, powerover and feint techniques. I almost never use the brakes, and I've never used the handbrake. Everything is going okay but I'm still having problems keeping the drift going. I ran about 50 test laps at Tsukuba Circuit and my main problems are the last hairpin (the one farthest south) and the final half-ring turn (the section of track farthest west, right after the south straightaway.)

On the hairpin, I can never seem to hit the turn just right. I can get a good drift going but my powerband quickly fades and the car begins to stall about midway through the turn. I've tried all different amounts of countersteer + throttle but I can't seem to keep the momentum going. I've also tried shifting down into 1st to keep the powerband but that usually just spins me out.

On the half-ring, I seem to always hit the turn too fast or too slow. Most times I hit it too fast, around 100. I can get some drift going in the beginning of the turn but I usually drift to the outside of the turn about midway through. After that, it's usually time to eat some sand. Sometimes I hit it doing about 80 and I end up hitting the inside wall. I've tried entering the turn at or around 90 but I can't get the drift angle when I hit it this way. I've tried all of my techniques but the car just wants to keep gripping.

Here's my car setup:

~298hp
Level 3 drivetrain upgrades (Clutch, Flywheel) + Carbon Driveshaft
Full Customization LSD
Full Customization Transmission
Stage 3 Weight Reduction
Racing Exhaust
Full Customization Suspension
Rollcage/Increase Rigidity
N2's front and rear
Oil Change + Wheels

Settings:

All aids are OFF!

LSD:
14
37
19

Suspension:
Spring Rate - 8.1/7.6 front/rear
Ride Height - 95mm f/r
Damper Bound - 4 f/r
Damper Rebound - 6/8 f/r
Camber - 1.5/0.0 f/r
Toe - -0/-0 f/r
Stabilizers - 3/5 f/r

If anyone has any extra tips for me, it's appreciated!

Thanks.

 

[Ske]

That car has a difficult powerband to learn with, especially with under 300 hp. You can either be patient and finetune your throttle control and rev timing, or you could try a car with a bit more torque/wider powerband for now.

Try reducing the countersteer a bit towards the apex, this should get you closer to the line and get your speed/revs up a bit.

Here's a demo I did of of the last sweeper:

 

[dimplz]

how did you do that so effortless and what settings
dimplz

 

[DarkED]

That car has a difficult powerband to learn with, especially with under 300 hp. You can either be patient and finetune your throttle control and rev timing, or you could try a car with a bit more torque/wider powerband for now.

Try reducing the countersteer a bit towards the apex, this should get you closer to the line and get your speed/revs up a bit.

Here's a demo I did of of the last sweeper:

That was an excellent demonstration, I understand exactly what you mean now. The wheel being onscreen also helped, as I use a DS2 and it's tough to judge how hard people are turning on most drift vids.

I've gotten pretty good with the S2000 at Grand Valley and I'll give Tsukuba another go, I'll watch the countersteer more closely. I see you drove a Sprinter in that demo, is that a good beginner drift car in GT4?

Thanks

EDIT: Almost forgot, I increased LSD Accel to 40 from the previous setting of 37 on the S2000. That actually helped alot, the car feels much tighter now.

 

[Ske]

The settings aren't anything special, probably close to default... I don't seem to get much out of tuning. The only thing I do is change the diff. I usually use either 1.5 way, 2 way, 10/25/10 or 60/60/60.

You just need to learn how to modulate countersteer, throttle and brake taps. It's almost impossible to just say how it should be done as it's about learning to anticipate and judge the car's movements through feel. You need to stay well ahead of the car in order to drift good.

I see you drove a Sprinter in that demo, is that a good beginner drift car in GT4?

EDIT: Almost forgot, I increased LSD Accel to 40 from the previous setting of 37 on the S2000. That actually helped alot, the car feels much tighter now.

The Sprinter is pretty easy to drift if you give it a bit of power. It has a tendency to dig in with the rear wheels, so N1 might be tricky. I also ran a 60/60/60 diff on that one, I could never spot tiny adjustments

 

[Ske]

edited the above post instead.

 

[DarkED]

The settings aren't anything special, probably close to default... I don't seem to get much out of tuning.

It's all about learning how to modulate countersteer, throttle and brake taps. It's almost impossible to just say how it should be done as it's about learning to anticipate the car's movements through feel. You need to stay well ahead of the car in order to drift good.

Yeah, I've noticed that. I just started GT4 drifting yesterday and while Boundary Layer and Swift's guide was a huge help in getting started I've found that I need to put my own style on things to make them work.

I started out with the 96' 240SX S13 on Autumn Ring Mini using some settings from the depot. That was probably a bad idea, that car tends to be pretty brutal with the spinouts and the snapbacks (at least with the setup I was using.) The S2000 doesn't have the powerband the 240SX had but it feels like a much more stable car to me.

EDIT:

The Sprinter is pretty easy to drift if you give it a bit of power. It has a tendency to dig in with the rear wheels, so N1 might be tricky. I also ran a 60/60/60 diff on that one, I could never spot tiny adjustments

I'll have to get that car and try it out. I could use a break from the S2000, if nothing else it'll be a nice learning (driving) experience

 

[Ske]

The S2000 doesn't have the powerband the 240SX had but it feels like a much more stable car to me.

The Amuse S2000s have even better turn-in than the normal ones, and the engines seem a bit more responsive as well. Any 1990-1997 RX7 (FC/FD) would also be a great alternative if you want a very easy car to learn in. The Silvias/SXs are good for learning throttle control, though.

 

[dimplz]

ill agree about the throttle control with the silvias

 

[DarkED]

The Amuse S2000s have even better turn-in than the normal ones, and the engines seem a bit more responsive as well. Any 1990-1997 RX7 (FC/FD) would also be a great alternative if you want a very easy car to learn in. The Silvias/SXs are good for learning throttle control, though.

I'll get on one of the larger courses (probably Grand Valley) with the SX and see what I can do with it. Autumn Ring Mini's size was likely half the problem. Throttle control with the right analog stick is still kinda tricky for me but I'm slowly getting it, I'm used to just holding the X button from playing too much GT2. I'll try an RX-7 and Sprinter too, see what I can do with them. Speaking of RX-7's, I wish they would have brought over the Savanna from GT2. It was a heavy car but it made a good drifter for some reason.

It's too bad GT4 doesn't have any events centered around drift. I can understand considering it's a grand touring simulator but the option would be nice. Maybe we'll get something like that in GT5.

 

[dimplz]

hopefully, aye, it would be nice for the events centred around drift. try the Grand Valley track in reverse for the corner i rated as the best

 

[Ske]

It's too bad GT4 doesn't have any events centered around drift. I can understand considering it's a grand touring simulator but the option would be nice. Maybe we'll get something like that in GT5.

We will.

They brought in a D1 driver to "approve" the drift physics for GT5, and the drift mode from GTHD is staying.

 

[DarkED]

try the Grand Valley track in reverse for the corner i rated as the best

Will do, thanks!

We will.

They brought in a D1 driver to "approve" the drift physics for GT5, and the drift mode from GTHD is staying.

Sweet... I haven't been keeping up on GT5's progress it seems. I'll definitely be buying a PS3 for this game. GT4 will be good practice

 

[Boundary Layer]

Yeah, I've noticed that. I just started GT4 drifting yesterday and while Boundary Layer and Swift's guide was a huge help in getting started I've found that I need to put my own style on things to make them work.

I'm glad you've made that realization. That guide is really just a starting point to help people understand how all the settings interact on a drift setup - based on your own experiences and preferences you may wish to take a different approach. For example, spring rates are (or used to be) a hotly contested issue and I've been on both sides of the argument. If I'm using a DS2 I tend to prefer a soft rear end, but on the DFP I prefer it to be a bit stiffer.

I didn't notice anything in the setup you posted that might be causing any serious problems.

On the hairpin, I can never seem to hit the turn just right. I can get a good drift going but my powerband quickly fades and the car begins to stall about midway through the turn. I've tried all different amounts of countersteer + throttle but I can't seem to keep the momentum going. I've also tried shifting down into 1st to keep the powerband but that usually just spins me out.

For the initial question about that last hairpin at Tsukuba...

The most common solution when you're experiencing a 'stalling drift' is to reduce the angle you're trying to use. That suggestion still applies here, you'll still want a shallow angle so that you'll be able to carry a little speed through the turn. This corner poses a different kind of challenge than most though because it has a changing radius - let me hazard a guess that you're stalling right when the corner seems to open up. If that's the case then the problem stems as much from your line as your angle.

What I'd suggest is to set yourself up for the last half of the turn and think less about the sharp turn in. Take a bit of an early apex (say 1/3rd of the way through the turn) and follow the outside of the track around the second half of the turn - the car should go there naturally as a result of the shallow drift.

You may find it helpful to practice on Tsukuba wet - you'll be able to do it at a slower speed and therefore have a little more time to concentrate on your line.

I know it's kinda crap just to say 'do this, this, and this and you'll be fine'. Normally I'd try to provide you with a video....but stuff is broken. Just keep at it - it's a tough turn.

 

[Observer]

I learned close to perfect throttle control from the 92 RX7 RZ and on El Capitan the car works out perfect but for most tracks the 95 RZ works great for learning throttle control while the S2000 seems to require more steering control to master the CG movments... Im currently am trying to master the left (steering)analog control witch proves to be much harder then the right (throttle) analog control

 

[nk4e]

Being the only short answer question, but Drift god?

I learned close to perfect throttle control from the 92 RX7 RZ and on El Capitan the car works out perfect but for most tracks the 95 RZ works great for learning throttle control while the S2000 seems to require more steering control to master the CG movments... Im currently am trying to master the left (steering)analog control witch proves to be much harder then the right (throttle) analog control

There is no perfect throttle control for any game or any car. Cg movements? So, you were using the D-pad before your drifting? The X-button and square button should work fine than the right analog but what ever flows your boat.

About the Amuse S2000, I know this is an old video but I still love it. Its pure stock with only N2's , I believe

I started out with the 96' 240SX S13 on Autumn Ring Mini using some settings from the depot. That was probably a bad idea, that car tends to be pretty brutal with the spinouts and the snapbacks (at least with the setup I was using.) The S2000 doesn't have the powerband the 240SX had but it feels like a much more stable car to me.

It is never a bad idea to use settings from the depot, that why is there. If it was then it would be pointless to put it there. You get alot from other people's settings, that is how I started it out in the begining. Also, you get to know how their style of Drifting is.A good exercise for practicing drifting is to not use the brake but only the gas.

 

[DarkED]

I'm glad you've made that realization. That guide is really just a starting point to help people understand how all the settings interact on a drift setup - based on your own experiences and preferences you may wish to take a different approach. For example, spring rates are (or used to be) a hotly contested issue and I've been on both sides of the argument. If I'm using a DS2 I tend to prefer a soft rear end, but on the DFP I prefer it to be a bit stiffer.

I didn't notice anything in the setup you posted that might be causing any serious problems.

Even since GT1 I've always preferred slightly stiff springs, so naturally it caries over to my drift setup too. I like a car that feels kinda like a bar of soap on wet flat plastic at times, but will grip when I need it too, that way I can change my driving style to suit whatever I'm doing (even in the middle of a race, should I need to.)

For the initial question about that last hairpin at Tsukuba...

The most common solution when you're experiencing a 'stalling drift' is to reduce the angle you're trying to use. That suggestion still applies here, you'll still want a shallow angle so that you'll be able to carry a little speed through the turn. This corner poses a different kind of challenge than most though because it has a changing radius - let me hazard a guess that you're stalling right when the corner seems to open up. If that's the case then the problem stems as much from your line as your angle.

Yeah, that's exactly what is happening.

What I'd suggest is to set yourself up for the last half of the turn and think less about the sharp turn in. Take a bit of an early apex (say 1/3rd of the way through the turn) and follow the outside of the track around the second half of the turn - the car should go there naturally as a result of the shallow drift.

You may find it helpful to practice on Tsukuba wet - you'll be able to do it at a slower speed and therefore have a little more time to concentrate on your line.

I know it's kinda crap just to say 'do this, this, and this and you'll be fine'. Normally I'd try to provide you with a video....but stuff is broken. Just keep at it - it's a tough turn.

I'll put your advice to good use, thanks. I'll try the wet circuit too.

Being the only short answer question, but Drift god?

About the Amuse S2000, I know this is an old video but I still love it. Its pure stock with only N2's , I believe

It is never a bad idea to use settings from the depot, that why is there. If it was then it would be pointless to put it there. You get alot from other people's settings, that is how I started it out in the begining. Also, you get to know how their style of Drifting is.A good exercise for practicing drifting is to not use the brake but only the gas.

Yeah, I didn't specify. I wasn't saying it was bad to use settings from the depot, I was saying that it was bad to use the 240SX as a starter on ARM. With what (little) skill I have drifting in GT4, I didn't drift enough to learn anything using that car, just spun out a bunch. Oh, and nice vid.

 

[nk4e]

Yeah, I didn't specify. I wasn't saying it was bad to use settings from the depot, I was saying that it was bad to use the 240SX as a starter on ARM. With what (little) skill I have drifting in GT4, I didn't drift enough to learn anything using that car, just spun out a bunch. Oh, and nice vid.

Not really, the 240sx is a good starter car because it doesn't have too much power in the rear and you have to mess with the LSD settings to get it to work right.

 

[DarkED]

Not really, the 240sx is a good starter car because it doesn't have too much power in the rear and you have to mess with the LSD settings to get it to work right.

Well, mine had ~450hp and no LSD, so for mine it was pretty bad

 

[Tulok]

an lsd will help you a bit, as long as its set up for your needs.

 

[greg_slideways]

Ok to every single drift car i get i only go slightly over 400hp and use n2's and 2nd weight reduction and semi racing stock setting lowered and sport clutch as well as carbon driveshaft i am still pretty new to drifting but these setting work for me i do not like tuning i dont see that it works for me.

 

[ForcedInduction]

Ske, I loved the outside line. Great control.

 

[DarkED]

Hey all, I've been playing around with two RX-7's. One is a later model FD, I don't really like it much. The other is a '90 FC GTX, and I really dig it. It's pretty easy to drift and I've been learning how to tweak settings for best drift performance.

I want to try an AE86 but I can't find one, it's in Used Cars 1 right?

 

[Observer]

yea the ae86 is in the historic showroom
did you try the rx7 RSR?
and for drifting and settings I like the GTX but I like the 85 savanna much better its more flexable when you want to tune it...

 

[DarkED]

Thanks!

and for drifting and settings I like the GTX but I like the 85 savanna much better its more flexable when you want to tune it...

I didn't know they had the Savanna in GT4, that's my favorite RX-7. I'll go look for it, thanks!

 

[2enty3]

question too: i cant seem to get my rear out fast enough for turns i keep getting scared of going into the sand and of counter steering too much.
any suggestions?

 

[nk4e]

question too: i cant seem to get my rear out fast enough for turns i keep getting scared of going into the sand and of counter steering too much.
any suggestions?

So your rear tires aren't breaking traction? maybe your turning in a bit too late? because if your countersteering to much then you could be already drifting or probably applying more gas then needed

 

[Suzuki]

Turn sharper, don't be scared. Gotta mess up a bit to figure out your/your cars limits.

 

[CHRI5MAN]

I dont get how all of you dk's (Drift Kings) of gran turismo get your cars on such an angle and not have the car come to a stop. Everytime i try it i have to use the handbrake to get that angle but it'll skid and come to a stop or i'll tap the handbrake and get a little bit of an angle on the car but it'll aline its self up again, still no good. I dont use driving aids and my settings are pretty similar to the D1GP cars but its not working out right. I use N1 tyres, a spoiler for downforce (30 front, 0 back) and sometimes get the settings from the posted settings list which contain all different cars.

Can anyone tell me more suggestion on how to keep the drift sliding?
Be very thankfull if anyone can help so i can get it right.

Chris...

 

[Laggy]

Well, since we're on the subject of a S2000. Earlier tonight I was doing some drifting with the Amuse R1 Titan S2000 and it was drifting pretty nicely for a touge car. This car has been featured on Best Motoring I think. Good to drift if u use different compound tires for the nice angles. Here's some pics I took today.