A "Super-V" Cadillac series?

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YSSMAN

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Well, it isnt much beyond what most experts were predicting years ago...

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Cadillac wants to sell ultra-high-performance tuner versions of its CTS-V, STS-V and XLR-V models, according to a published report today. The cars could be modded by Brabus, McLaren, Lorinser or Dinan, according to Edmunds. Cadillac product director John Howell told the publication that his company was considering turning to a European tuning house for the project because it conveys a more sophisticated image. Another possible lineup — this one built in-house by Cadillac — could go under “Super V” moniker. These models would have slightly more power than the current “V” models, and would enable Cadillac to compete with Mercedes AMG models and the BMW M-Series. Cadillac has long been rumored to be testing a CTS model with the 505-horsepower, 7.0-liter LS7 V8 from the Corvette Z06. The model would allow the CTS to rival BMW’s new M5.

I'm all for it, but I would rather see the work done in-house than by a European tuner (no offense Europe). The thought of a LS7-powered CTS-V is rather appealing, and should give Cadillac a bit of a superiority complex when going up against the BMW M3 (in price) or M5 (in size and performance). I wouldnt be surprised to see Mallett or Lingenfelter drop the new LS7 in the CTS-V sometime soon, and I'm eager to see what the performance numbers will look like.
 

Omnis

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They need to make the CTS "Super-V" look like that CTS Race car. They need to chop it up so it's not as tall; somewhat like a midway between the XLR and the CTS.
 

Wolfe

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Sounds nice, but if they want to do this, why didn't they make the "V-series" more powerful to begin with? Last I heard, there wasn't such a thing as a BMW "M+ series" or Mercedes "über-AMG series" or Honda "Type-R Extra Crispy series"...individual models, sure (M3 CSL, CLK DTM AMG, etc.), but not an entire new series... :odd:
 

ND4SPD

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Wasn't there pics surfacing around of a slightly camoflauged CTS-V running ultra wide fenders and larger tires and was rumoured to be an ultra high performance version of the CTS-V? I'll try and find pics.


Here, found some, this one is testing at green hell.



There were also 2 more pictures of a similar car only silver and minus the hood lump being tested at the GM proving grounds. That one looked a lot closer to production.
 
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The CTS chassis already has problems with 400 hp, I know wheelhop is a big issue and fuel starvation as well (alhtough that's easily fixed).

They need to sort out the chassis before they just add more horsepower, especially if AMG is their target.
 

JohnBM01

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Let it be known that I am not a Cadillac fan. Today's Cadillacs look abysmal and not impressed by the stats some of these Caddys up. I just lay back and think... powerful 21st Century Cadillac with more hp. Improve looks before prostituting "Super V" performance at me. If I wanted a performance car, I wouldn't want a Cadillac. I don't know... I'm not real hooked on especially the newer Cadillacs. They talk about marketing to a younger audience. Well, I'm 23 years, two months old. If I wanted a fountain of youth from an American make, I'd probably get a Mustang.

But if Cadillac wants to go through with this deal, let them. It's going to take a lot for me to get into them regardless. On top of that, it may just end up being a case of cars I think are ugly, but still sells regardless of what I think. I will admit that the beefier looks of this CTS-V (from ND4SPD, Post #5) isn't bad for this big Caddy. I can almost imagine racing livery like the Cadillacs in the Speed GT series.

Just not buying or feeling Cadillac. I will give the Cadillac CTS-V in this thread an approval of 70% out of 100%. Alright... defend Cadillac and blast away at me.
 

Poverty

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The thing about the CTS-V is that it already had near enough alot more horsepower than its rivals. They need to sort out the *flamesuit* crappy handling *flamesuit off*. I would want the work done by a european tuner because then we would be assured that these caddys could compete against M's and AMG's around corners and not just straight lines.
 

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According to Automobile Magazine, the CTS-V's handling is plenty sporty as it is. The reason why it loses out to its European competition is because its interior is dreadful, the transmission is balky, and the suspension -- though sporty -- fails to offer a smooth ride.
 

Poverty

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Reall I thought it was because it had soft handling and it could turn as sharply as the european couterparts and carry as much speed around corners.

So ive edited my earlier comment and just put it as crappy handling.
 
1,823
Supposedly Cadillac has talked to McLaren about this lineup. I personally know of a company that's 100% American that would be great to tune these new V's, although I might be a little biased ;). Let it be known though that besides McLaren, I think any Euro company Cadillac goes to will be a bad idea.

The CTS-V needs it's wheelhop issue fixed, it needs a smoother and more refined (Read: DEVELOPED SPECIFICALLY FOR CADILLAC. Even if it's based off of an LS6/7, it still needs to be one of a kind to the V) powerplant with more choices in transmissions than the god-awful manual they offer in the thing now. They could call this new masterpiece the Cadillac CTS-V Evoluzione. Damn, I like the sound of that. :)
 
1,823
They've looked into McLaren, Brabus, Alpina, Lorinser, and Dinan. As I said, going to a European company would be bad for Cadillac's image, they need to develop their own not-quite-in-house tuning company, or go to an already established American tuning company that doesn't just want to throw turbo kits or superchargers at the V's.
 

YSSMAN

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If Cadillac is to build a CTS-V "Plus," its only going to be because they can. The origional CTS-V was used to show that Americans can build cars that can run with the M-spec and AMG models, and that we can do a damn good job in doing so. Yes, they didnt do enough with the interiors, and atleast with the XLR-V and STS-V, they didnt have enough sport to make them competition.

But, they are what they are... Comparible in performance, cheaper in price.
 

YSSMAN

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Yes, Mallett is based in Ohio, and tests their cars throughout the midwest. I've seen Mallett's Corvettes in and around my hometown several times, and last summer while at Grattan Raceway, they had a few of their models there for testing.
 

JohnBM01

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According to "Poverty," a bond between American group Cadillac (much less GM) going up against European makes... I don't know if it's more about Americans building a car to take on and take down ANYTHING European, or Americans building a car with a little European help to take on and take down ANYTHING European. Cadillac is a GM deal. So why don't they look to some of their European divisions like Vauxhall or Opel? Maybe they can look to (outside of Europe) Holden.

Here are some old threads of mine which focused on Cadillac as well as marketing their machines worldwide to be better than non-American makes:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=51548 ("The 2005 Cadillac STS: World-Class Car or Overhyped Car?")
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=62309 ("How Do You Appeal to an International or Foreign Audience?")

When I look at Cadillac, I don't immediately think sports car. It would be suicide for me saying that Cadillac is trying too hard in making cars to actually challenge European, Japanese (come on now. Can your "no contest" comments), mainland Asia, and even Australian types. Their key competiton is the Europeans, since they are the masterminds of some great sedans Cadillac wants to take down. I just don't want to think "Cadillac... sports car." How many types my age (23) will actually want a Cadillac over a Ferrari or even a Porsche? I thought the Saleen S7 and S7 Turbo are world-class machines, even though it isn't an affordable sports car.

There's only one Cadillac I've loved heading into the 21st Century, and it isn't even a consumer car- it's the Cadillac Northstar LMP. I think it had a lot going for the racing program, and the cars are simply beautiful to me. Best of them is the 2002 model: ( http://www.mulsannescorner.com/cadillaclmp02.html ). How do I think Cadillacs can actually LOOK like European contenders, or at least as nice as the 2002 Cadillac Northstar LMP? My first suggestion- KILL THE TALLNESS OF YOUR CARS! Regardless of what anyone thinks, many of the vertical dimensions are really tall and displeasing to me. If many of them were vertically lower, I'd like their looks more. The tall brakelights can stay as long as they are done right. More than ever, I'd lessen the edginess of the cars and go with more curves than edges. If they want to take it to BMW and such, they need some better looks. And of course, get the internals done right (power, handling, performance, etc.). Other than that, wake me when they get interesting.
 
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JohnBM01
According to "Poverty," a bond between American group Cadillac (much less GM) going up against European makes... I don't know if it's more about Americans building a car to take on and take down ANYTHING European, or Americans building a car with a little European help to take on and take down ANYTHING European. Cadillac is a GM deal. So why don't they look to some of their European divisions like Vauxhall or Opel? Maybe they can look to (outside of Europe) Holden.

That's the thing, Cadillac doesn't want to look to any other car maker for advice. They want to contract an independant tuning company to take the V cars and make them even better than they already are. That's the entire point. Also, Mallett would be a bad idea, Mallett puts entirely too much power and not enough suspension into their cars. They in general are just "Look how big my penis feels when I drive this" cars.

They want refinement and enhancements that you won't find in most American tuning companies. And if they use Saleen, I'll kill everyone at GM. Everyone.

When I look at Cadillac, I don't immediately think sports car. It would be suicide for me saying that Cadillac is trying too hard in making cars to actually challenge European, Japanese (come on now. Can your "no contest" comments), mainland Asia, and even Australian types.

I'm sorry, you actually think that there are Japanese cars that can compete with Cadillacs? The only luxury cars you can name that even come close to competing with the V cars come from Germany.

Their key competiton is the Europeans, since they are the masterminds of some great sedans Cadillac wants to take down. I just don't want to think "Cadillac... sports car." How many types my age (23) will actually want a Cadillac over a Ferrari or even a Porsche? I thought the Saleen S7 and S7 Turbo are world-class machines, even though it isn't an affordable sports car.

How many people your age can afford a $50,000-$100,000 V car? Ok, now let's narrow it down and ask how many people your age can afford a Saleen S7 or S7 Turbo? None. Not without mommy and daddy's cash. At all, ever.

As for how many people your age want a Cadillac? Alot - There are so many 16-25 year olds in new and used Cadillacs now that they almost outnumber the 50+'s that have them. Sure, almost everyone (Myself included) would rather have an Enzo than a CTS-V, but again, just like I said above - How many 23 year olds can afford a Ferrari or Porsche? And again, the answer is none without daddy's bank account.

There's only one Cadillac I've loved heading into the 21st Century, and it isn't even a consumer car- it's the Cadillac Northstar LMP. I think it had a lot going for the racing program, and the cars are simply beautiful to me. Best of them is the 2002 model: ( http://www.mulsannescorner.com/cadillaclmp02.html ). How do I think Cadillacs can actually LOOK like European contenders, or at least as nice as the 2002 Cadillac Northstar LMP? My first suggestion- KILL THE TALLNESS OF YOUR CARS! Regardless of what anyone thinks, many of the vertical dimensions are really tall and displeasing to me. If many of them were vertically lower, I'd like their looks more. The tall brakelights can stay as long as they are done right. More than ever, I'd lessen the edginess of the cars and go with more curves than edges. If they want to take it to BMW and such, they need some better looks. And of course, get the internals done right (power, handling, performance, etc.). Other than that, wake me when they get interesting.

Curves suck. Cadillac tried to go with curves in the late 90's, it sucked. BMW is trying to go with curves right now, all of them suck (Except the 6, which was curved when it came out originally, and it still looks bloated). Cadillacs look like Cadillacs should - When you see one on the street, it is undeniably a Cadillac and the styling is good. In fact, you may be the only person I've ever seen who didn't like the styling of the new Cadillacs. And I hate to break it to you, the sharp edges and lines are here to stay.
 

YSSMAN

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According to "Poverty," a bond between American group Cadillac (much less GM) going up against European makes... I don't know if it's more about Americans building a car to take on and take down ANYTHING European, or Americans building a car with a little European help to take on and take down ANYTHING European. Cadillac is a GM deal. So why don't they look to some of their European divisions like Vauxhall or Opel? Maybe they can look to (outside of Europe) Holden

Well, considering that divisions such as Holden, Vauxhall, etc. have used Cadillac technology in their models, its the other way around. To my knowlege, the current Sigma platform is used ONLY by Cadillac, and was completely designed by Cadillac here in the US. Most of the testing for the different variations (CTS, STS, SRX) were done in Germany, on the Nürburgring, so there is plenty of world influcene in the mechanical design of the car.

johnBM01
When I look at Cadillac, I don't immediately think sports car. It would be suicide for me saying that Cadillac is trying too hard in making cars to actually challenge European, Japanese (come on now. Can your "no contest" comments), mainland Asia, and even Australian types. Their key competiton is the Europeans, since they are the masterminds of some great sedans Cadillac wants to take down. I just don't want to think "Cadillac... sports car." How many types my age (23) will actually want a Cadillac over a Ferrari or even a Porsche? I thought the Saleen S7 and S7 Turbo are world-class machines, even though it isn't an affordable sports car.

As I had said before, Cadillac is not trying to build a sports car, they are trying to build a Bahn-burner like the M-spec, AMG, and S-line cars from Germany. I'm 19, and I would much rather have a CTS-V than a similarly priced Porsche Cayman, as the Cadillac is more practical, comfortable, and performs just as well as the mini-911. I may have more sophisticated tastes at a younger age, but when I think about a sports car, the M5 and RS6 are included with the likes of the Corvette and 360...

JohnBM01
There's only one Cadillac I've loved heading into the 21st Century, and it isn't even a consumer car- it's the Cadillac Northstar LMP. I think it had a lot going for the racing program, and the cars are simply beautiful to me. Best of them is the 2002 model: ( http://www.mulsannescorner.com/cadillaclmp02.html ). How do I think Cadillacs can actually LOOK like European contenders, or at least as nice as the 2002 Cadillac Northstar LMP? My first suggestion- KILL THE TALLNESS OF YOUR CARS!

What exactly does the "tallness" have to do with anything? Cadillacs always have been, and almost always will be big cars, as it is as American as Apple Pie. The high door height and low roofline is something American automakers were doing decades ago, and only up until now have the Germans caught on to it with the CLS, etc. IMO, the Cadillacs look great. They are much more destinctive than the rather bland Lexus and (to some extent) Audi products, and have taken a completely different direction because they can. The "Art and Science" look may not be liked by everyone, but when you see a Cadillac driving by, you arent going to mistake it for a Hyundai.
 

JCE

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I'd prefer an Audi over any sport saloon right now--and after driving (and driven the hell out of) a slightly used 2005 A6 I'm pretty much sold on Audi's saloons vs anything else. But ...

GIVE ME THIS THING:
8015image2zb.jpg


This is one sweet looking car...but only in black.
 

JohnBM01

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I'll quickly admit this CTS-V does look pretty cool in black, though I don't care much about colors.
 
6,447
GIVE ME THAT CAR!! In black, too. Its the best thing that came outta Caddy HQ, ever! The most insane machine, too. It will ward away some buyers from BMW and M-B for sure.

Oh and someone was saying that if they are planning a "ultra-V" series then why didnt they make them more powerful at first point. Well, its conforting to know that you can still get a CTS-V if you can't afford a CTS-VV :sly:

Oh btw whoever that says the current Caddy design is bad, you need your head examined. Im 15 and Im just captivated by their design. Its refreshing to see a departure from all the nonsense curves and the infamous Bangle Butt. Yes, curves are good, but there are too many of them around now. And Cadillac offered the sharp angles and lines. 👍 to them! They dared to be different.
 

Wolfe

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Oh btw whoever that says the current Caddy design is bad, you need your head examined. Im 15 and Im just captivated by their design. Its refreshing to see a departure from all the nonsense curves and the infamous Bangle Butt. Yes, curves are good, but there are too many of them around now. And Cadillac offered the sharp angles and lines. 👍 to them! They dared to be different.

Funny -- you commend Cadillac for daring to be different when that's exactly what BMW did with the curvy Bangle styling...
 

Slicks

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I've seen that the option of using Mallett is disliked here (Although I've got nothing against them). So, why not use LPE (Ligenfelter Parts Engineering) to massage these already potent cars into the "Super-V" line? Cadillac has made large strides in the past few years towards true competition with the Germans, and this could finally bridge the remaining gap between the competition.

I haven't seen a new STS in person, yet. I think it looks very nice from the pictures I've seen, though. The CTS, however, looks a little bit too tall and narrow. The taillights are also too big and bulky for my taste.
 

YSSMAN

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I would say the STS looks a helluva lot better than the 5-series, but generally isnt a match for the stunning CLS or Quattroporte. Of course, those cars are almost in another league when compared to the big Caddy, but if we want to get a little more down to Earth, I would dare to say the Jaguar XJ almost looks better than the STS, but not quite.
 

Wolfe

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Yeah, but Caddy's 'different' doesn't suck ;)

Yeah, but the public is snatching up the "sucky-looking" BMW's like wildfire, so much so that other manufacturers are copying the Bangle styling with their own cars. I haven't seen a non-Cadillac that looks like one of the recent Cadillacs, have you? :lol:
 

Slicks

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I think people would buy BMW's no matter what, whether or not it looked like it got hit with Bangle's ugly stick. Wait... That's already happening. I think it's amazing that people will buy ugly cars with stupid computer systems just for a little blue & black badge.
And I have no clue about why people would copy those designs. It looks like a BMW... But it doesn't have BMW performance, prestige, or quality.
 
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I think people would buy BMW's no matter what, whether or not it looked like it got hit with Bangle's ugly stick. Wait... That's already happening. I think it's amazing that people will buy ugly cars with stupid computer systems just for a little blue & black badge.
And I have no clue about why people would copy those designs. It looks like a BMW... But it doesn't have BMW performance, prestige, or quality.

Exactly.

Bangle butt is different - but it failed miserably. Almost none if the people I know likes it. And to those copying others designs: "create your own design, dammit!"
 

Poverty

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Now that I see more 3s the more I like them. They stand out so much on our roads its a good thing. Once the coupes released I think the 3 series will take off with minor modifications to the front bumper to make them more sporty. Most people didnt like the E46 at first and i was seen as boring but it ended its life as a legend.