America - The Official Thread

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Dotini

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I distinctly remember 9/11/01 as one of the peak experiences of my life, ranking with the JFK assassination, first moon landing and a handful of my car and kart races, mountain climbs and sex acts.

In darkness as I was idling and mounting my motorcycle (a Suzuki Bandit 600) to commute to work (Boeing, Renton plant), I glanced up at the moon and saw an immediately recognizable image, a well known symbol. It was the crescent moon closely opposed with a bright star. I involuntarily shuddered, then set off to work with increased foreboding. Half an hour later I was seeing the World Trade Center hit by an airliner on my office computer.
 
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Liquid

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@Dotini This sounds really dumb but what was the reaction like at Boeing factories? The fact that Boeing planes were involved. I know it has zero bearing and relevance on the event and facts at hand, I'm just curious if there was anything different in people's reactions.
 

Dotini

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@Dotini This sounds really dumb but what was the reaction like at Boeing factories? The fact that Boeing planes were involved. I know it has zero bearing and relevance on the event and facts at hand, I'm just curious if there was anything different in people's reactions.
At the Renton plant, the news spread slowly on the factory floor. At the management and engineering shop floor support center where I was located, the reaction was dismay and incomprehension until the 2nd airliner struck the other tower. Only then did the gravity and meaning of the situation begin to dawn. So, bottom line, I guess our reaction was pretty much like everyone else's. By the end of the day, we all knew America was never going to be the same again.
 

UKMikey

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Had to look that one up. Are you referring to the Dead Kennedys song or is that some group's motto?
It's the song. I would've posted the video earlier but as an attack on Governor Jerry Brown it's a bit out of context. (See also The Dickies' Stukas Over Disneyland)
 
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Keef

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"They're coming from California..."

California's urban commies get a bad rap. Conservatives think that it's a big place with these busy cities and all these people, and it is, but they skip over the "big" part. California is massive and mostly empty, especially the northern quarter. It's as rural as the nearby areas of Nevada, Oregon, and Idaho...all of which are known breeding grounds for cultists and otherwise genuinely dangerous and untrustworthy people. It ain't the taco eaters and Botox juicers that conservatives need to worry about. It's their own damn crazy people out in the sticks who have never once had internet and get all their news off HAM radio*.

*without a license because they're lawless
 
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Republicans in Tuesday's California gubernatorial recall election are already laying the groundwork to argue the election was stolen — even before a single ballot is reported or a victor declared, an increasingly common tactic in conservative circles.

Republican Larry Elder appealed on Monday to his supporters to use an online form to report fraud, which claimed it had "detected fraud" in the "results" of the California recall election "resulting in Governor Gavin Newsom being reinstated as governor."

The only problem: On Monday when the link was live on Elder's campaign site, the election hadn't even happened yet. No results had been released. And Elder was still campaigning to replace Newsom as governor.

“Statistical analyses used to detect fraud in elections held in 3rd-world nations (such as Russia, Venezuela, and Iran) have detected fraud in California resulting in Governor Gavin Newsom being reinstated as governor,” the site reads. "The primary analytical tool used was Benford’s Law and can be readily reproduced."

The site added on Monday afternoon a disclaimer saying it was "Paid For By Larry Elder Ballot Measure Committee Recall Newsom Committee," with major funding from Elder's gubernatorial campaign.

The most recent polls show Newsom is likely to survive the attempt to remove him from office in Tuesday’s recall election. Elder and other Republicans have already started chalking up a potential loss to baseless allegations of voter fraud, following the script written by former President Donald Trump.

“This is really becoming the standard GOP playbook,” said Lee Drutman, a senior fellow at the New America think tank who studies democracy. “This is democracy 101. If you don't have elections that are accepted and decisive, then you don't really have a democracy, because the alternative is violence or authoritarianism.”

There has been no evidence of voter fraud in California.

Elder's website asks voters to submit affidavits of evidence they witnessed of voter fraud, targeting those who would support him after Election Day. It was first reported on by the Sacramento Bee.

The site was registered anonymously in August. On Monday afternoon, Elder's campaign did not respond to requests for comment about it being included on his campaign site or if they produced the page. Hours later on Monday, the disclaimer about his campaign having funded the site was added.

California has a long history of voting by mail, but decided to send every registered voter in the state a ballot for the first time in this race, which has stoked bogus rumors about the ballots and their designs.

In an interview with NBC News on Monday, Elder repeatedly refused to say whether or not he would accept the results of Tuesday’s election.

“Let's all work together to find out whether or not the election tomorrow is a fair election,” he repeated several times when pressed.

Concerns about voter fraud have simmered for decades among conservatives. But after Trump made his lies about the 2020 election a focus of the GOP, other candidates appear to be trying to exploit the conservative base's predisposition to believe in a massive conspiracy among Democrats, the media and election officials to throw elections — even in races that are not particularly close or where Republican officials are in charge.

A recent NBC News poll found that 60 percent of Republicans living in blue states are not confident that their state can administer elections fairly. And 59 percent of Republicans say believing that Trump won the 2020 election is an important part of being a Republican, according to a new CNN poll, even though, of course, Trump lost.

“No one should be surprised by the vote fraud claims, that is the holy grail in the GOP right now,” said Jason Cabel Roe, a Republican strategist who has worked in California. He was the executive director of the Michigan GOP until he was forced out of the job for saying the 2020 election wasn't stolen but that Trump "blew it."

It hasn't just been Republicans. In New York's Democratic primary for mayor this year, Eric Adams, who ultimately prevailed, tried to lay the groundwork during the campaign to claim voter fraud.

In California, registered Democrats outnumber registered Republicans nearly 2-1, and Elder only has the support of around a quarter of the electorate. So it would not be particularly surprising if a Democratic governor survives an attempt to remove him from office.

But most California Republicans think Newsom will be recalled, according to a recent University of California, Berkeley, Institute of Governmental Studies poll.

And so, in the first big statewide election since 2020, Republicans opinion leaders are already making preparations to cry foul if things don’t turn out the way they hope, setting a precedent that could be followed by others in the future.

“Does anybody really believe the California Recall Election isn’t rigged?” Trump said in a statement Monday.

“They’re going to cheat, we know that,” Elder said last week in Santa Barbara.

Elder, the controversial talk radio host who is leading a field of 46 candidates vying to replace Newsom, tells supporters concerned about fraud to go on his website to report “anything suspicious.”

Elder's campaign homepage under the title "stop fraud" links to the website, StopCAFraud.com. The site solicits donations for him and asks supporters to sign a petition “demanding a special session of the California legislature to investigate and ameliorate the twisted results of this 2021 Recall Election.”

The site seems to presuppose the outcome of the race, claiming fraud has already been detected in the election and that Newsom won — even though Election Day is not until Tuesday.

The page suggests voters may turn to the “ammo box” if they can’t trust the ballot box.

“They say that in America, there are four boxes of liberty. The soapbox, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box,” the website reads, pledging to bring legal cases. “Will we now have to fight the California jury box, in the hope that the final box — the one most akin to Pandora’s — remains closed?”

Elder, a lawyer with an Ivy League degree, initially denied Trump's baseless voter fraud allegations — but reversed course after backlash from conservatives.

“I do believe that Joe Biden won the election fairly and squarely,” Elder told the Sacramento Bee editorial board in August.

Trump allies who are otherwise aligned with Elder raked him over the coals for the comment. Within hours, Elder tweeted, “Do I believe there were shenanigans in the 2020 presidential election? Yes.”

Since then, Elder has repeatedly claimed the 2020 election was rife with "shenanigans" and warned “they’re going to try that in this election right here,” as he said on Fox News Sunday earlier this month.

Those evidence-free claims have been echoed by conservative commentators like Fox News’ Tomi Lahren, who said on the conservative cable network, “The only thing that will save Gavin Newsom is voter fraud.”

Neither Trump nor Elder have presented any evidence of fraud and election officials in California say there is none.
This is how it's going to be going forward because it works. It obviously hasn't changed anything in the courts, but it sufficiently compels the base to act. The events of January 6th and Republicans' reaction to those events show that they're perfectly fine with attempts to accomplish through violence that which couldn't be accomplished through voting.
 

Blitz24

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This is how it's going to be going forward because it works. It obviously hasn't changed anything in the courts, but it sufficiently compels the base to act. The events of January 6th and Republicans' reaction to those events show that they're perfectly fine with attempts to accomplish through violence that which couldn't be accomplished through voting.
"Russia, Iran and Venezuela are saying it, so it MUST be true!"

- A GOP Candidate for Governor of California, apparently.
 
21,249
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"Russia, Iran and Venezuela are saying it, so it MUST be true!"

- A GOP Candidate for Governor of California, apparently.
To be fair, these countries were referred to in remarks on the site that Elder's campaign is pushing.

I thought it was funny that those countries were presented as "third-world," and I couldn't help but think some Russians might take exception to such a notion.
 

Danoff

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This is how it's going to be going forward because it works. It obviously hasn't changed anything in the courts, but it sufficiently compels the base to act. The events of January 6th and Republicans' reaction to those events show that they're perfectly fine with attempts to accomplish through violence that which couldn't be accomplished through voting.
My take on it right this second is... fine... good. Republicans can take on the crybaby mantle. I'm good with it.
 
39,000
You know if the GOP just ignored AOC instead of trying desperately to make her out to be Demon Incarnate 2.0 But Prettier Than Hilary Was, they'd actually probably have a better time neutralizing her as the principle threat to whatever "values" they are holding up in any given week instead of making her live rent free in everyone's head.
 
21,249
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Firebrands play their role well.

I assume there's something about the dress going around right now. As ridiculous as it was, especially in the context of the Met Gala, she did look gorgeous in it.
 
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UKMikey

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Firebrands play their role well.

I assume there's something about the dress going around right now. As ridiculous as it was, especially in the context of the Met Gala, she did look gorgeous in it.
Thanks for providing the context so I could look up AOC's dress and work out what this is about.

Having seen it, my initial (and probably subsequent) reaction is: "I really don't care, do u?".
 
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Thanks for providing the context so I could look up AOC's dress and work out what this is about.
I mean...it's a guess that that's what they've fixated on. But it's an educated guess based in no small part on these being the stupidest mother****ers on the planet. They have to crane their ****ing idiot necks up to even glimpse the bottom of the barrel.
 

Joey D

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Florida man... DeSantis is off his rocker.
I can't wait for their hospitals to go bankrupt when the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services cut off all payments and lose accreditation. Also, I can't wait for their economy to take a massive hit once the cruise lines and other tourism-based industries give them the finger and move to another state.

DeSantis really is a member of the "Leopards Ate My Face" party and I can't believe this Qcumber is currently the most talked-about potential Republican candidate for the presidency in 2024.
 
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This is how it's going to be going forward because it works. It obviously hasn't changed anything in the courts, but it sufficiently compels the base to act. The events of January 6th and Republicans' reaction to those events show that they're perfectly fine with attempts to accomplish through violence that which couldn't be accomplished through voting.
“Statistical analyses used to detect fraud in elections held in 3rd-world nations (such as Russia, Venezuela, and Iran) have detected fraud in California resulting in Governor Gavin Newsom being reinstated as governor,” the site reads. "The primary analytical tool used was Benford’s Law and can be readily reproduced."


Lol wut? This is not a tool that any rando can throw at a data set and expect to get meaningful results. Also, if that's the primary source for allegations of fraud, that's weak. Benford's Law at best indicates that there might be a problem worth investigating through other methods, it does not in and of itself show anomalies with any certainty.
 

Danoff

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Lol wut? This is not a tool that any rando can throw at a data set and expect to get meaningful results. Also, if that's the primary source for allegations of fraud, that's weak. Benford's Law at best indicates that there might be a problem worth investigating through other methods, it does not in and of itself show anomalies with any certainty.
Interesting. Let me muse on that for a moment.

I'm surprised to say I've never come across Benford's law, so I skimmed the wiki link. It looks like you have to be quite an exacting statistician to apply it to a data set and know that the data set should conform to it, and it seems like some statisticians are not so exacting.

It'd be easy to incorrectly draw the conclusion that something that has a uniform distribution looks fishy when you hold it up against an expectation of a Gaussian distribution. For example, you'd be way off base to say that federal congressional districts should have a guassian population distribution - they're designed to be nearly uniform. But you might find many gaussian distributions when looking at the behavior of people within a congressional district. This is essentially the pitfall that election sleuths are being accused of making when they misapply Benford's law.
 
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Danoff

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That was Nov 11th 2020. Thought it sounded familiar!
Very thorough. Good stuff. I was legitimately interested so I took the time to watch the whole thing, which is unusual for me with random internet videos.
 
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That was Nov 11th 2020. Thought it sounded familiar!
7.7k dislikes on that video. Wow. Clearly that means a lot of people were displeased that it didn't affirm their beliefs. Of course I had to check the math on my hypothesis, so I crunched the numbers and it turns out a significant percentage of dislikes were, at least according to my calculations, displeased that he was drinking from a white mug. Weird.

(It should be super obvious that I didn't actually do any number crunching.)
 
39,000
Republicans keep confusing it with Binford's Law because they want more power.


9fb23eb66d0b54995aab93ade21c6d144f9ea246.gifv
 

NotThePrez

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