America - The Official Thread

[Famine]

Separating and detaining migrant children from their families? This is not how we do things in Canada, says Justin Trudeau. Except it is.


* Looking at the numbers, Canada separately detained 151 children from roughly 21,000 illegal immigrants over the course of a year; USA has detained 2,000 between April and June this year, from roughly 50,000 illegal immigrants in that period. Canada's child illegal immigrant detention rate is 1.25% that of the USA's, but its illegal immigrant rate is 7% that of the USA's, so it happens around a sixth (17.8%) as often in Canada.

 

[baldgye]

Is it difficult to understand why people would prioritize the life and health of their own children over that of other people's children?

Many people no longer care about their own children, and children no longer care about their parents. Society fractionates down to the individual level, their cellphone, music, drugs and self-selected reality or identity group. This way, divided like sheep, they become much easier to control.

To be fair though, this is probably a fair and accurate answer. If Americans don't care about their own children, what hope do we have of them caring about other peoples children, let alone foreign children?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Separating and detaining migrant children from their families? This is not how we do things in Canada, says Justin Trudeau. Except it is.


* Looking at the numbers, Canada separately detained 151 children from roughly 21,000 illegal immigrants over the course of a year; USA has detained 2,000 between April and June this year, from roughly 50,000 illegal immigrants in that period. Canada's child illegal immigrant detention rate is 1.25% that of the USA's, but its illegal immigrant rate is 7% that of the USA's, so it happens around a sixth (17.8%) as often in Canada.

That's different though. Because Trudeau isn't Hitler. Or something.

 

[Rallywagon]

In these cases, were these children taken because they werent actually with their parents, but in fact part of human trafficking? I know that was what Hitl... sorry, Trump was touting as an excuse at first. Couldnt prove the children werent part of a trafficking ring, so separate them all.

 

[Touring Mars]

Separating and detaining migrant children from their families? This is not how we do things in Canada, says Justin Trudeau. Except it is.


* Looking at the numbers, Canada separately detained 151 children from roughly 21,000 illegal immigrants over the course of a year; USA has detained 2,000 between April and June this year, from roughly 50,000 illegal immigrants in that period. Canada's child illegal immigrant detention rate is 1.25% that of the USA's, but its illegal immigrant rate is 7% that of the USA's, so it happens around a sixth (17.8%) as often in Canada.

It just goes to show that even if you have a policy to not separate children from their parents, it still happens. For it to happen about 1/6th as often when you are actively trying to avoid it as compared to when you are actively trying to do it (as Trump has) points to the fact that it is much easier said than done to avoid it happening.

In the case of the US, they also have the added difficulty that there is a legal precedent that forbids the detention of children for longer than 20 days, which means that the option of detaining families together is not legally feasible, even if it were practically possible, which at the current time it isn't.

Little wonder then why successive US Presidents have struggled with this problem and ultimately revert to what has been the default option of 'catch and release', which although it is by far the most humane (and even sensible) option for the vast majority of illegal immigrants who simply seek a better life for themselves in the US, it does leave the door wide open to the kinds of exploitation that Trump was elected to stamp out.

 

[TexRex]

We're desperate for jabs, I see. Care to join me in hell with Mr Tree instead?

Clearly:

This was not a federal law and was not acted upon with zero tolerance; that was Trump's doing. The idea however to detain accompanied children was not new; it was only thankfully, not acted upon.

I'm not going to show anything about Obama b/c I did not blame Obama.

Nope.


Nope.


You're borderline mad every time you post in this thread. Makes it ironic you talk about seeing the good and bad.

Velgium? Is that in Narnia? Or Mordor?

You got it!


Is that where Velgium is?

Ah yes. Shame even she was even against her husband's own policy just a couple days ago. What an evil witch.

Per your request, I quoted everything. The problem with doing so is that what's being addressed gets buried. As such, I redacted the unimportant stuff and bolded the [also unimportant] stuff to which I was responding.

So the convention can indeed be utilized to great effect in complete absence of malice.

What I want to address is your mockery of someone--who isn't a native English speaker to begin with--over what appears to be a simple typo. "B" is right next to "V," you know...

Moreover, is it really your place to administer such jabs when your own ability to wield the language leaves much to be desired?

Also...how's your French? Dutch?

Would I be standing up for someone targeted with such immature digs if their views didn't oppose those of one that my own views oppose? Probably not. Would you have made such an uninspired dig if they agreed with you? Doubt it.

Howsabout a beer?

Found one for him. Blimey!

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeewww!!

In that middle one it looks like he's trying to suck the chrome off of a trailer hitch!

 

[Danoff]

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeewww!!

I give them a little more of a pass on these than most people. Posing for a family portrait usually has a lot to do with the camera person (photo one). And occasionally candid photos come out a little awkward (photos 3), and trump has no idea how to pose himself (photo 2). If you've ever done a family photo shoot with someone like that you know that it's "ok now look at each other, get closer, ok put your hand on her shoulder, can you move your leg?". You end up feeling like a trained monkey.

 

[TexRex]

I give them a little more of a pass on these than most people. Posing for a family portrait usually has a lot to do with the camera person (photo one). And occasionally candid photos come out a little awkward (photos 3), and trump has no idea how to pose himself (photo 2). If you've ever done a family photo shoot with someone like that you know that it's "ok now look at each other, get closer, ok put your hand on her shoulder, can you move your leg?". You end up feeling like a trained monkey.

Sure, sure, but she also has "the best body."

 

[Rallywagon]

Clearly:


Per your request, I quoted everything. The problem with doing so is that what's being addressed gets buried. As such, I redacted the unimportant stuff and bolded the [also unimportant] stuff to which I was responding.

So the convention can indeed be utilized to great effect in complete absence of malice.

What I want to address is your mockery of someone--who isn't a native English speaker to begin with--over what appears to be a simple typo. "B" is right next to "V," you know...

Moreover, is it really your place to administer such jabs when your own ability to wield the language leaves much to be desired?

Also...how's your French? Dutch?

Would I be standing up for someone targeted with such immature digs if their views didn't oppose those of one that my own views oppose? Probably not. Would you have made such an uninspired dig if they agreed with you? Doubt it.

Howsabout a beer?

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeewww!!

In that middle one it looks like he's trying to suck the chrome off of a trailer hitch!

Get the blue label Chimay and I am all in!
Also... Trump... he has said many rather pervy? things about his daughter. Their favorite thing is sex, shes sexy, if she wasnt his daughter maybe he'd be dating her... I mean... I have a daughter, there are just some lines better left uncrossed.

 

[TexRex]

Get the blue label Chimay and I am all in!

Blue is just too malty for me, though. I like the Cinq Cent's mild bitterness.

 

[Rallywagon]

Blue is just too malty for me, though. I like the Cinq Cent's mild bitterness.

I'll take malt over hops any day.

 

[TexRex]

I'll take malt over hops any day.

I can appreciate that. After mass consumption of cheap lagers [in college] whose bitterness shone far more brightly, I turned to porters, bocks and stouts for a reprieve via more mellowness. That's when I got into beer as beer rather than a source of alcohol. With age, I've turned back to the hoppy brews, even going so far as enjoying a "poke-you-in-the-IPA." And as a fan of the more botanical gins, I've developed a fondness for the piney ales.

 

[McLaren]

Actually I was highlighting the absurdity of your earlier statements.

You failed miserably.

I'd wait for an actual comment on Trump himself than a piss poor attempt at linking a sarcastic comment about Melania is the same.

You are so quick to lash out while defending by (to use your analogy) casting out your line trying (and failing) to suggest that Trump wasn't responsible for his own actions (it was obviously Clinton's fault).

Never did that, either. What I did was point out for your misinformed self that people don't need to blame Trump to the point that you pile on just to pile on; he'll do that himself. Case in point, acting like Trump just up and thought he should separate children. He didn't. That settlement presented that idea, that's where he falsely accuses Democrats as being responsible for the policy. Which is where he would've made a fool of himself without your help.

Then that I didn't care about potentially thousands of children being orphaned because both I and the media were cherry picking news simply to attack Trump with (which I guess makes whats happening ok?).

I didn't blame anyone here. I made it quite clear from the get-go my concern was with the media.

I never said it made it ok either. In fact, you quoted a post that included my response twice to Mr. Tree that I didn't advocate separation.

But are quick to remind people not to make personal attacks, which is again odd. Not least because Trump has attacked people for not only how they look, but for being disabled... and done so, in-front of thousands of people...

Let's use the response the last time someone tried to point what Trump did.

Trump didn't agree to the AUP. You did.

My issue originally was that it's alarming how few American people, in this thread don't care at all about those thousands of children, living in abject misery possibly never to see their parents again. Simply because they wanted a better life and to escape persecution and death... and for the last, what 50-60+ years(?) the USA has advertised it's self as the greatest democracy and place to live, where you too can make the American Dream come true. This came about because of Trump, and his 'fix' as I linked too, contains lies, might be illegal and actually makes trying to enter the US worse. Not only that, but as I again linked above, trying to enter the US legally to claim asylum is something that's becoming increasingly hard to do.

For so few to care about these things is staggering to me.

My issue originally was that it's alarming how few American people, in this thread don't care at all about those thousands of children, living in abject misery possibly never to see their parents again.

Then that I didn't care about potentially thousands of children being orphaned because both I and the media were cherry picking news simply to attack Trump with (which I guess makes whats happening ok?).

Hmm.... So it's okay to "originally" come to the conclusion that some people in this thread didn't care about thousands of children, but get upset when you believe you've been accused yourself.

 

[baldgye]

You failed miserably.

Interesting.

Hmm.... So it's okay to "originally" come to the conclusion that some people in this thread didn't care about thousands of children, but get upset when you believe you've been accused yourself.

I'm not really upset at being accused of not caring, it was just another statement you made that wasn't true.

 

[McLaren]

I'm not really upset at being accused of not caring, it was just another statement you made that wasn't true.

It's a fine shame I never did that, then.

Never the less, it's the irony you miss.

 

[baldgye]

It's a fine shame I never did that, then.

Never the less, it's the irony you miss.

Glad to see we’re back on the topic of the border. Your concerns over that facility seem short lived.

Indeed

 

[McLaren]

Indeed

I see we're casting the fishing reel again on sarcasm.

Guess you need a refresher about that facility as well; none of those children are the ones you have issue with being separated from their parents and cry that Americans don't care about them.

Most children held in the Shenandoah facility who were the focus of the abuse lawsuit were caught crossing the border illegally alone. They were not the children who have been separated from their families under the Trump administration's recent policy and are now in the government's care.

It was not immediately clear whether any separated children have been sent to Shenandoah Valley since the Trump administration in April announced its "zero tolerance" policy toward immigrant families, after the lawsuit was filed.

 

[TexRex]

I was about to dive deep into hypocrisy, but I decided I didn't really want to do that. I had a different thought instead.

How about we dispense with the petty digs, peoples' pointing-out of hypocrisy in others' comments amid their own hypocritical comments, and general unpleasantness. Politics has a way of making otherwise decent people really ugly. Now...that I'm not innocent in this regard is not lost on me, but this is sincere and I'm willing to make an effort.

The recent, brief, beer-related tangent was a welcome break from the animosity, just as that reprieve by way of the beauty to be found in both nature and culture in this country was.

I also really want to point out that selective quoting, while potentially malicious, isn't inherently so. It's also really useful in filtering discussion down to key points. Quoting everything but addressing only some of what was quoted isn't perfect either, and can come off as maliciously dismissive, as though saying, "I see what you said, and this is me not talking about it."

So...how about it? Even if it lasts for only a day, that's a whole day without the spitting of bile.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I was about to dive deep into hypocrisy, but I decided I didn't really want to do that. I had a different thought instead.

How about we dispense with the petty digs, peoples' pointing-out of hypocrisy in others' comments amid their own hypocritical comments, and general unpleasantness. Politics has a way of making otherwise decent people really ugly. Now...that I'm not innocent in this regard is not lost on me, but this is sincere and I'm willing to make an effort.

The recent, brief, beer-related tangent was a welcome break from the animosity, just as that reprieve by way of the beauty to be found in both nature and culture in this country was.

I also really want to point out that selective quoting, while potentially malicious, isn't inherently so. It's also really useful in filtering discussion down to key points. Quoting everything but addressing only some of what was quoted isn't perfect either, and can come off as maliciously dismissive, as though saying, "I see what you said, and this is me not talking about it."

So...how about it? Even if it lasts for only a day, that's a whole day without the spitting of bile.

Please don;t tell other members what they can and can't post on.

These discussions do not violate the AUP, as such they are free to continue regardless of how uncomfortable they may make you feel.

 

[Mr Tree]

I was about to dive deep into hypocrisy, but I decided I didn't really want to do that. I had a different thought instead.

How about we dispense with the petty digs, peoples' pointing-out of hypocrisy in others' comments amid their own hypocritical comments, and general unpleasantness. Politics has a way of making otherwise decent people really ugly. Now...that I'm not innocent in this regard is not lost on me, but this is sincere and I'm willing to make an effort.

The recent, brief, beer-related tangent was a welcome break from the animosity, just as that reprieve by way of the beauty to be found in both nature and culture in this country was.

I also really want to point out that selective quoting, while potentially malicious, isn't inherently so. It's also really useful in filtering discussion down to key points. Quoting everything but addressing only some of what was quoted isn't perfect either, and can come off as maliciously dismissive, as though saying, "I see what you said, and this is me not talking about it."

So...how about it? Even if it lasts for only a day, that's a whole day without the spitting of bile.

I'd have to admit that when I calmed down and apologised for my mad post and explained where my reaction comes from @McLaren was also enough of a gentleman to bring up empathy to why I lashed out.

I might not agree with him but I think we should remind ourself more often of what you say and bury the hatched and speak with eachother instead of to eachother takning breaks when needed. (Including myself)

Sorry for giant typo's I was at graspop and a bit intoxicated tried to correct as many as possible.

 

[McLaren]

I'd have to admit that when I calmed down and apologised for my mad post and explained where my reaction comes from @McLaren was also enough of a gentleman to bring up empathy to why I lashed out.

I might not agree with him but I think we should remind ourself more often of what you say and bury the hatched and speak with eachother instead of to eachother takning breaks when needed. (Including myself)

Sorry for giant typo's I was at graspop and a bit intoxicated tried to correct as many as possible.

Think I’ll take your advice and bow out for a while then. 👍

 

[Rallywagon]

to be fair, he wasnt telling anyone what to do, he was simply suggesting dropping some cattiness.

Back to the beer!
Tex, I think that is how a lot of beer "connoisseurs" get their start. I know for me and my group of beer snobs, we all started in on the strongest beers we could afford. Once the "thrill" of crappy tasting strong stuff wore off, we definitely all mellowed into our own separate tastes. I cant stand IPA's or hefeweizens. the hefs in particular have a taste that is a bit to akin to the smell of the dump down the road from my house. If, however, you are into strong hops, I might be talked in to sending you a 4 pack of some of the most hoppy IPA I have had. a local brew called Crescent Fresh by a small brewery here called Ellisons. I got it based solely on the name. Sifl and Olly was a huge part of my early teen years, so of course I had to pick up a beer after its name sake song.
I personally enjoy the dark beers the most still. especially stouts and bocks. Only very recent have I gotten into light ales. One of the nice things about living in MI is that we are craft brewery heavy. Founders, Bell's, Perrin being the bigger names, but a slew of local breweries dot just about every major city around the state as well. I am never hurting on variety and new things to try.
I do wish mead was a bit more popular though.

 

[Imari]

I give them a little more of a pass on these than most people. Posing for a family portrait usually has a lot to do with the camera person (photo one). And occasionally candid photos come out a little awkward (photos 3), and trump has no idea how to pose himself (photo 2). If you've ever done a family photo shoot with someone like that you know that it's "ok now look at each other, get closer, ok put your hand on her shoulder, can you move your leg?". You end up feeling like a trained monkey.

I'd agree if it wasn't for all the other creepy things he's said about his daughter. I get that she's hot, but as a father and a professional sometimes you just have to keep your incestuous redneck instincts on the inside.

 

[TexRex]

a local brew called Crescent Fresh by a small brewery here called Ellisons.

Would you believe I've actually had it? That and another...Citra Evolution iirc. Nice orange zest from the hops.

cant stand IPA's or hefeweizens.

Just like I don't like hot food just for the heat and need a nice flavor to go with it, my IPAs need a nice nose and the filtering-through-hops process lends to that very well.

I used to drink a lot of unfiltered wheats and Sheila was turned off by their appearance in the glass. Got her to try one finally and now that's all she drinks (beer-wise) even though I haven't touched one in probably close to a decade.

One of the nice things about living in MI is that we are craft brewery heavy.

*cough* *cough* Austin *cough* *cough*



We may not have quite the brewery presence that Michigan has, but that's probably because those Germans that flooded the Midwest and oozed into neighboring regions didn't particularly like the heat.



What we do have, though, is lots of people willing to provide for those wanting to try, and even if hipsters only want to seem like they actually enjoy small batch beers, they still drink them.

And I think the heat has something to do with the lager/pils/ale preference over some of the malty varieties, but you can still get the latter easily and in wide variety here.

 

[Rallywagon]

My experience with Texas was El Paso and Texarkana. I loved El Paso, and Texarkana was the first place I've every heard "you damn Yankee" in an actual derogatory manner. Needless to say, neither were exactly good for serious beer drinking. I did have some of the best tequila and margaritas though. I miss El Paso.

 

[AbeFroman75]

Oops
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...as-not-separated-from-mother-family-says.html

Nah, the media and the rest of the far left lunatics really care about children and it's not about their extreme hatred of Trump or that they have nothing to run on in November.

 

[Rallywagon]

Oops
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...as-not-separated-from-mother-family-says.html

Nah, the media and the rest of the far left lunatics really care about children and it's not about their extreme hatred of Trump or that they have nothing to run on in November.

and the thousands of others that actually are must all be fake? And Trumps admission of the separation of families, fake too?

 

[Danoff]

I'd agree if it wasn't for all the other creepy things he's said about his daughter. I get that she's hot, but as a father and a professional sometimes you just have to keep your incestuous redneck instincts on the inside.

Fair enough, I don't know about the other comments. Not gonna look them up right now either.

 

[ImaRobot]

If, however, you are into strong hops, I might be talked in to sending you a 4 pack of some of the most hoppy IPA I have had.

I'm not much into politics, so I'll just comment on this discussion

Are we going to have to set up a beer trade? I think we're going to have to set up a beer trade. Living near LA, I have good amount of breweries just around pretty much every city within 10-15 miles. My favorite happens to be a one local to Downtown Los Angeles, called Mumford. They mostly brew IPA's and a mix of stouts, and some other odd ones every once in a while. They're IPA's specifically are my favorite from most anything I've tried in recent years, and they're tap room is my go to whenever I get the opportunity.

When I finally transitioned from generic beer about a little less than a decade ago, it was to IPA's - Started out with the more mainstream ones like Sierra Nevada. I didn't really know much of beer yet, but I ended up transitioning about a year later to Belgians. Tripel's specifically, and some golden/blondes depending. Straffe Hendrick, Maredsous, St Feuillien and Rochefort Trappist where my usual go tos. I ended up sticking with Belgians for for the past.. I dont know how many years, but recently transitioned back to IPA's about a year and a half ago when Hazy/North East IPA's started to get trendy, and then gradually went back to full on IPA's as I got sick of the Haze Craze everyone is going through over here. My next venture is going to be stouts, I'm trying to force myself to move in that direction.

I'd say I'm pretty snobby with beer too, and spend obscene amounts of money on it, but I enjoy not only the beer that these breweries make, but the company of the people/brewers that you see at the breweries, who you can see have obvious passionswhen not only talking about their beers, but when they brew too. Since I've gotten into craft beer, it has been less about catching a buzz and more about taste and quality. It's ruined me, I have a hard time drinking Budweiser and the like.

 

[huskeR32]

Are we going to have to set up a beer trade?

Count me in!