America - The Official Thread

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Danoff
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...gay-presidential-candidate-poll-finds-n990211

America never gets tired of beating itself up over its bigotry. But over 2/3 of the country is fine with a gay presidential candidate. And the last 3 popular vote winners for president went black man, black man, woman, in that order. We should do some more back patting and less back stabbing.
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:dunce:

Okay, so I want to clarify that all confusion subsided at about three seconds in (no seconds would be preferable), but my first thought was "Who was the other black candidate?" Long day.

You're absolutely right though. And for what it's worth, I genuinely believe that the more bigoted voices out there have volume but not quantity.
 
ryzno
Doing something about the migrants at their border in Central America instead of letting them through for us to deal with?
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I am not sure you realise how small the "immigrant problem" is to the US economy and overall crime. Also the average citizen does not "deal" with those migrants at all. Like others said it is just window dressing to distract from all the drama around Trump. Dont look at headlines from either left/right media. Try to look at the facts and ignore single incidents and examine if immigration from the southern border actually is structurally making the US more dangerous. In other words if mexican immigrants are so dangerous then crime should be n the rise the past few years in the usa.

https://americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/criminalization-immigration-united-states

https://crim.sas.upenn.edu/fact-check/do-mexican-immigrants-cause-crime


up-myth-criminal-immigrant-promo-facebookJumbo.jpg
 
PocketZeven
I am not sure you realise how small the "immigrant problem" is to the US economy and overall crime. Also the average citizen does not "deal" with those migrants at all. Like others said it is just window dressing to distract from all the drama around Trump. Dont look at headlines from either left/right media. Try to look at the facts and ignore single incidents and examine if immigration from the southern border actually is structurally making the US more dangerous. In other words if mexican immigrants are so dangerous then crime should be n the rise the past few years in the usa.

https://americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/criminalization-immigration-united-states

https://crim.sas.upenn.edu/fact-check/do-mexican-immigrants-cause-crime


up-myth-criminal-immigrant-promo-facebookJumbo.jpg
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I generally agree with the sentiment, but I can't help but notice (from our gun debates) that this analysis is open to the same counter-argument as the gun control argument. You need a corroborating plot which shows violent crime decreasing at roughly the same rate or slower in an analogous country to show that the immigrant population didn't increase violent crime. For example, suppose I could supply you with plots of developed nations around the world that experienced a greater decrease in violent crime over the same time period (with less immigration). Now suddenly the decrease in violent crime looks like it has been slowed by (potentially) the immigrant population. I mean, I can't do that, and I'm not going to try.

Anyway, carry on.
 
Danoff
I generally agree with the sentiment, but I can't help but notice (from our gun debates) that this analysis is open to the same counter-argument as the gun control argument. You need a corroborating plot which shows violent crime decreasing at roughly the same rate or slower in an analogous country to show that the immigrant population didn't increase violent crime. For example, suppose I could supply you with plots of developed nations around the world that experienced a greater decrease in violent crime over the same time period (with less immigration). Now suddenly the decrease in violent crime looks like it has been slowed by (potentially) the immigrant population. I mean, I can't do that, and I'm not going to try.

Anyway, carry on.
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I understand your comment. I am not trying to suggest more immigrants=less crime or the opposite. I am actually, more accurately, saying that there seems to be no connection between violent crime and immigration. So in this case I agree with you there is no relation. However if you do believe the narrative of the Trump administration and has led to a national emergency, violent crime should be on a rise. Or am I wrong to think that?

More importantly I like to implore @ryzno to make his own conclusion, based on factual, structural evidence and not anecdotal and incidental evidence. Media always like to emphasize a certain inicident or story as "evidence" to back up their narritive, that does not translate well when you look at the statistics. Most often sadly when a young white woman is murdered or raped by an immigrant. It almost suggest that white male americans do not rape or murder white women or do it at much less then immigrants.
 
PocketZeven
I understand your comment. I am not trying to suggest more immigrants=less crime or the opposite. I am actually, more accurately, saying that there seems to be no connection between violent crime and immigration. So in this case I agree with you there is no relation. However if you do believe the narrative of the Trump administration and has led to a national emergency, violent crime should be on a rise. Or am I wrong to think that?
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Certainly this is evidence to support that conclusion, that they appear to be non-correlated. But it would be stronger if you had a control group. I think you're on fairly solid ground if your claim is that the statement that "immigration causes crime" does not appear to be supported. If you go further and make the statement "immigration does not cause crime", you'd need something more I think.
 
Danoff
Certainly this is evidence to support that conclusion, that they appear to be non-correlated. But it would be stronger if you had a control group. I think you're on fairly solid ground if your claim is that the statement that "immigration causes crime" does not appear to be supported. If you go further and make the statement "immigration does not cause crime", you'd need something more I think.
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Fair enough. I dont have the resources to conduct such a report. However there are enough sources to corroborate such a claim. I have linked some, but many people chose to ignore the data provided and prefer to believe anecdotal and incidental evidence to corroborate that immigration does bring in crime. My statement was there is no such evidence and therefore one should not automatically associate immigration with crime.

In other words just because Trump tweets it, does not mean there is evidence that makes it true.
More recently he stated his father was born in Germany, while at the same time could be simply factchecked to be incorrect. Why doesnt such a falsehood (of many more) motivate Trumpsupporters to try to find out which other claims are false and then conclude if Trump is the right person for the right position. It really is an enigma for me.

TenEightyOne
Today I learned that the noise from "windmills" (or wind turbines) can give you cancer. Oh Donald.
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I guess the Pro trump people will just say, that while there is no evidence that it does cause cancer, there is also no evidence that says it does not cause cancer.
 
TenEightyOne
Today I learned that the noise from "windmills" (or wind turbines) can give you cancer. Oh Donald.
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He also had a blinder when, whilst criticising Germany's NATO contributions, itself a non-starter as an argument, he tried to cushion the blow by playing up his pro-German feelings by saying his father was born in Germany.

Now, I don't remember when Neuyork was part of the Weimar Republic. His grandfather was born in Germany but he very clearly said father.

 
Liquid
He also had a blinder when, whilst criticising Germany's NATO contributions, itself a non-starter as an argument, he tried to cushion the blow by playing up his pro-German feelings by saying his father was born in Germany.

Now, I don't remember when Neuyork was part of the Weimar Republic. His grandfather was born in Germany but he very clearly said father.

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He also has an obsession with the “Elite”. He seems to bring it up very often, even though no one else is. He seems to be have some obsession of never having been part of the so-called “elite” , no one actually knows who he is actually referring to.

My guess the New York billionaire boys club never accepted him for his narcissistic behavior and just out of spite became president to prove he is “smarter”.
 
TenEightyOne
Born in the German Empire but actually in the kingdom of Bavaria... and at his death he was only American - he was stripped of his citizenship for draft dodging.
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Hmmmmm...

What are causes and risk factors for bone spurs?
A variety of factors contribute to bone spurs. These include:

  • Aging. As our discs wear down, ligaments get looser and don't hold the joints as stable as they should. The body tries to thicken the ligaments to hold the bones together. Over time, the thickened ligaments start forming flecks of bone. The thickened ligaments and new bone around the spinal cord and the nerve roots cause pressure.
  • Disc and joint degeneration.
  • Heredity.
  • Injuries, including sports-related and motor vehicle accidents.
  • Nutrition.
  • Poor posture.
  • Structural problems that a person is born with.
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I saw some items with Pete Buttigieg. My faith in the USA is somewhat restored. If the same country that produced a narcissistic, incompetent, loathsome person in Trump, can also produce someone like Pete, there is hope for the country yet to correct its course again. His bio seems almost like a piece of fiction.
 


:lol:

TenEightyOne
If Trump says they work that way then there's a section of the popular vote that will believe they do. That's the real tragedy.
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Amen. During the shallow dive into trying to pinpoint a wackadoo source for the claim that also yielded the above tweet from Twenty Thousand Hertz, I came across a term that is both astute and terrifying:

"Malicious ignorance."
 
Perhaps it is wise for the Americans to vote a bit younger next time. Trump is showing the signs of old age as Hillary did during the campaign.

Kayne.
 
IMHO, presidents are not in office to deliver character, piety, wisdom, science, poetry, or good looks. They are there to deliver peace and prosperity. All else is secondary, but resilience under fire is a good quality to have. If, come 2020, the country is at peace and is prosperous, don't be surprised if the Trump is reelected.

If you really don't want him back, you should do everything in your power to destroy peace and prosperity.
 
Dotini
IMHO, presidents are not in office to deliver character, piety, wisdom, science, poetry, or good looks. They are there to deliver peace and prosperity. All else is secondary, but resilience under fire is a good quality to have. If, come 2020, the country is at peace and is prosperous, don't be surprised if the Trump is reelected.

If you really don't want him back, you should do everything in your power to destroy peace and prosperity.
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Define peace and prosperity? Was there absence from peace and prosperity during Obama’s last term? And how did Trump improve that situation? Last time I heard the USA was in state of emergency, evidence of foreign meddling in a us election, danger of many people losing health insurance and much, much more.
 
PocketZeven
Define peace and prosperity? Was there absence from peace and prosperity during Obama’s last term? And how did Trump improve that situation? Last time I heard the USA was in state of emergency, evidence of foreign meddling in a us election, danger of many people losing health insurance and much, much more.
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His message was "America First", and people bought into that. Fewer foreign inventions, troops coming home from older interventions - that's "peace", relatively speaking. People at full employment, with a booming economy - far ahead of the rest of the world. That's prosperity. Just that simple. Sure, I readily agree, there are all sorts of other problems and/or issues out there, but these are small by comparison with the big two issues. That's what people intuitively feel. It's not rocket science.
 
Dotini
His message was "America First", and people bought into that. Fewer foreign inventions, troops coming home from older interventions - that's "peace", relatively speaking. People at full employment, with a booming economy - far ahead of the rest of the world. That's prosperity. Just that simple. Sure, I readily agree, there are all sorts of other problems and/or issues out there, but these are small by comparison with the big two issues. That's what people intuitively feel. It's not rocket science.
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If the democrats can put forward someone who isn't a tree stump, I think people will flee Trump.

Accidental Rhyming
 
Danoff
If the democrats can put forward someone who isn't a tree stump, I think people will flee Trump.

Accidental Rhyming
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Good one! Hillary is definitely a tree stump. Stormy Daniels, on the other hand, would steal all those deplorable votes, for sure. :lol:

 
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McLaren
The only way I see Trump winning is every Dem candidate shoots another in the foot.
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Don't underestimate their foot-shooting skills. They've been honing them for decades now.

I hope we can get back to a future where politics are completely boring and full of faceless bureaucrats scurrying around DC and things that happen in the beltway stay in the beltway and I have no idea who the secretary of transportation or president's chief of staff is. You know the days when the political climate swung more gently between general moods of "lets spend less money" and "lets help the poor more" instead of all caps screaming manifestos.

#prayingforPete? Pete seems sufficiently boring under the glossy finish. He's a pretty standard midwestern guy. My kind of president.
 
PocketZeven
More importantly I like to implore @ryzno to make his own conclusion, based on factual, structural evidence and not anecdotal and incidental evidence.
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I'll repeat myself...
I don't think they are all rapists or murders.
I believe most are coming here for a better life.
I don't like the ILLEGAL part of how they want to immigrate.
You can't keep track of people you have no record of.
The sheer number entering illegally is an issue.
If you think just cause America is big and we can deal with them just cause, were done.
And TBH I'm really getting tired of you thinking I'm salivating waiting for Trump to say anything.
You are way more anti-Trump than I believing every word Trump says.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
Don't underestimate their foot-shooting skills. They've been honing them for decades now.
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They're playing nice for now, though I've heard Bernie & Biden are at odds with each other (I really thought Biden would be a heavy hitter being Obama's VP, but the allegations seem to be knocking him before the gun has even gone off). Mayor Pete is getting a lot of hype too, but that's easy when Harris, Warren, Gabbard, Booker, Beto, Schultz, and Yang are quiet.

It's basically going to become Survivor: DNC eventually.
 
ryzno
I'll repeat myself...
I don't think they are all rapists or murders.
I believe most are coming here for a better life.
I don't like the ILLEGAL part of how they want to immigrate.
You can't keep track of people you have no record of.
The sheer number entering illegally is an issue.
If you think just cause America is big and we can deal with them just cause, were done.
And TBH I'm really getting tired of you thinking I'm salivating waiting for Trump to say anything.
You are way more anti-Trump than I believing every word Trump says.
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Again do you realise asking for asylum is fully legal? Also the vast majority of illegal immigrants are the ones who overstay their Visa. Dont think my country not have illegal immigrants. We do and it brings our own problems, especially since we have open borders, but we dont demonize immigrants to the extent the Trump administration is doing.

And Trump's policies isnt just illegal immigration, but also targeted at legal immigration like slowing down greencard applications, muslim ban, child seperation, taking on "chain migration" (family reunification) etc.

I did not mean to offend and definately dont think you think they are murderers and rapists. You regulary defend Trump's administration on many things and I am just trying to debate it respectfully. Before again concluding the "sheer"amount of illegals and justifying a national emergency, closing the border and building of a wall, you have to answer the right questions first. What are the sheer number of illegal immigrants? How do they enter the USA?

Dotini
His message was "America First", and people bought into that. Fewer foreign inventions, troops coming home from older interventions - that's "peace", relatively speaking. People at full employment, with a booming economy - far ahead of the rest of the world. That's prosperity. Just that simple. Sure, I readily agree, there are all sorts of other problems and/or issues out there, but these are small by comparison with the big two issues. That's what people intuitively feel. It's not rocket science.
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America was always first as long as I remember. I dont think any country thinks foreign policy is more important then national policy. It is just a slogan that people bought in to.

But in all seriousness, wasnt there peace and prosperity during Obama's second term? And what did Trump do to improve it? The economy was booming, low unemployment etc. So why did people buy into MAGA?
 

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